Keystone 230 LHS Travel Trailer - Power Brake Question

[carlosjackal]

hi Guys,

My travel trailer is due to arrive here in New Zealand at the end of Feb, from NY. Its a Keystone Hideout 230LHS.

Q1. I see literature referring to power braking system. What is this, how is it powered and operated?

Q2. We have bought a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 30l Diesel to tow with (it has towing capacity of 2500kgs, so should be ok. Obviously the towing electric plug we have fitted here wont fit, so will need to know what to change out to and wiring.

Can anyone offer any answers please?

PS. Summer has hit nicely here, and its a balmy 32 deg C here in Christchurch!

Carl

[chuckster57]

Trailer brakes are electric and operate on a 12VDC negative ground. As long as the tow vehicle is 12VDC negative ground, the only component you'll need is a brake controller. The controller sends the correct voltage to the brakes based on how hard you push the brake in the truck.

Lots of choices and prices, so I would say get what is available for your part of the world. As far as the wiring of the trailer plug, standard in the US is a 7 pin connector with 6 contacts used. The 7th will be used if the trailer has back-up lights. Here is a link to the standard wiring, so you can see what each pin is. You probably could make up your own connectors as each "side" can be purchased.

http://www.etrailer.com/faq-wiring.aspx

[hankaye]

carlosjackal, Howdy;

hi Guys,

My travel trailer is due to arrive here in New Zealand at the end of Feb, from NY. Its a Keystone Hideout 230LHS.

Q1. I see literature referring to power braking system. What is this, how is it powered and operated?

Q2. We have bought a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 30l Diesel to tow with (it has towing capacity of 2500kgs, so should be ok. Obviously the towing electric plug we have fitted here wont fit, so will need to know what to change out to and wiring.

Can anyone offer any answers please?



PS. Summer has hit nicely here, and its a balmy 32 deg C here in Christchurch!

Carl

As for Q2. You may want to get a vehicle side plug;
http://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Pollak/PK11893.html
You and your mechanic can figure out the correct wires for
the Rover... This will also be a form of theft deterrent as not
to many folks down that way would be inclined to have them
(I think might be wrong). At least then you'll have the brake
lights, turn lights and running lights on the correct circuits as
well as the brakes themselves.

Good luck, Happy Motoring!

hankaye

[Ken / Claudia]

Not sure this helps or not but, the Keystone trailer manual (at least mine) shows and explains the trailer plug as to what goes to what by wire color and location in the trailer plug.

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure if Australia follows the British system for trailer connections, but I would check the vehicle requirements with an RV dealer there before modifying your Land Cruiser to USA specs. If you're "required system" is the 13 wire "European" system, there's more to it than just changing to our truck adapter.

Also, Australia/New Zealand have some specific regulations about converting appliances and the trailer wiring from our 120 VAC to your 220 VAC system.

There are a number of "easy obstacles" yet there are some rather costly conversion requirements that differ from country to country.

If you do a forum member search for "justlizz" and "tac" you can see some of the issues faced by a British member and a German member who were considering importing an RV built in America.

It's possible, but not as simple as cutting a few wires and changing a plug.

Good Luck with your research !! There's a reason the RV importers in NZ and Australia charge what they do. It's not all a "clear and easy profit" They have to do some pretty significant modifications to meet your vehicle codes.

[carlosjackal]

I'm not sure if Australia follows the British system for trailer connections, but I would check the vehicle requirements with an RV dealer there before modifying your Land Cruiser to USA specs. If you're "required system" is the 13 wire "European" system, there's more to it than just changing to our truck adapter.

Also, Australia/New Zealand have some specific regulations about converting appliances and the trailer wiring from our 120 VAC to your 220 VAC system.

There are a number of "easy obstacles" yet there are some rather costly conversion requirements that differ from country to country.

If you do a forum member search for "justlizz" and "tac" you can see some of the issues faced by a British member and a German member who were considering importing an RV built in America.

It's possible, but not as simple as cutting a few wires and changing a plug.

Good Luck with your research !! There's a reason the RV importers in NZ and Australia charge what they do. It's not all a "clear and easy profit" They have to do some pretty significant modifications to meet your vehicle codes.

Thanks mate, I think we only have about 6 wires.
I have been researching the area of electrical changes. Basically, I can install voltage transformers provided they are within the confines of the appliance. i.e. we aren't allowed to install one master transformer and run everything from there. Thankfully the stove, heater, awning are ok. The other big things are the inverter/charger which I need to change, and wiring/plugs/etc..

Looking forward to the challenge.

[carlosjackal]

Thanks everyone for your advice and links.
It appears not as difficult as I first imagined. Looks like Tekonsha P3 is the controller of choice in NZ/Australia, easy to fit too.

cheers

Carl

[carlosjackal]

Sorry, one last question.
What size towball will the hitch need?

[JRTJH]

2 5/16" is the standard. In the US, there are several "shank sizes" from 3/4" up to 1". Make sure you get a ball that's rated to tow the weight. There are balls rated from 6000 lbs up to 12000 lbs.

[carlosjackal]

cheers Bud.

[carlosjackal]

hi guys, can you please confirm I have purchased the correct end of the plug to fit to my landcruiser? the one I have has 6 x spade connectors in a ring, and a central receptical (for earth I presume).
It has the sprung cover on it too.

Sorry for the dumb question, but I am thrown as ours are 7 x receivers (female) for the car end.

cheers

Carl

[chuckster57]

The 7 way plug here has 6 spades spaced around the circumference and a center bullet, for a total of 7 wires.

The center is used here for back up lights if the RV has them.

[carlosjackal]

The 7 way plug here has 6 spades spaced around the circumference and a center bullet, for a total of 7 wires.

The center is used here for back up lights if the RV has them.

Thanks,

This seems to be right then.

cheers

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_157736_0_de8efe40d0118d720b6aed1668fca27e.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Jackal_Racing/media/IMG_0298_zpscdcab7f6.jpg.html)

[chuckster57]

Yup! That be the one "bouncey:

[carlosjackal]

Just had a Terrible thought....

We are picking up our trailer on Saturday at the port after a 80 day voyage (literally, around the world!!).

Tow ball changed to suit 2 5/16ths.

I have the Tekonsha Brake Controller.

I am about to do the wiring now to simply plug in when I get to port. I have purchased a US socket for the tow vehicle.

Problem is, when I search for the trailer plug wiring diagrams, there are so many combinations out there on the US websites, I don't know which one to follow. If anyone has a Keystone manual which shows this, please can you take a photo for me?

Also, because we have red stop lights, and orange indicators, on separate wires. If I tie in my stop wire to the two indicators, I am presuming they will both come on when I brake, even if I am indicating at the time. Does anyone know how this works, or what I am supposed to do?

Would like to go to an Auto electrician, but I cant guarantee they aren't as clueless as me, as well as being thieving ratbags.

cheers

Carl

[chuckster57]

Click on the link:
http://www.etrailer.com/faq-wiring.aspx

Scroll down to "RV INDUSTRY STANDARD"

It will have the proper wiring for your trailer as it comes off the boat. Brake and turn signals are under one red lens on each side, but the bulbs are dual element. Hope this helps.

[carlosjackal]

Thanks Chuckster

I have matched them all up except for:

NZ feed to trailer has an Earth. Is this not required? what do you guys normally do to earth the trailer to the veh, rely on the towball connection?

NZ Brake lights feed. Do I simply hook this into the two turn wires (Brown and Red)? if so, does it detect twice the voltage or something?

Sorry if the questions sound dumb. But I have nearly cracked it.

Carl

[chuckster57]

Trailer 12V is grounded to the frame. It is connected to the vehicle ground (earth) via the white wire in the plug. As far as the brake light feeds, yes I believe you should be fine. The vehicle flasher should cause an "interruption" making it blink.

[carlosjackal]

Cheers for the info. I couldn't see the white wire for looking...

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_161763_0_972b0fc8295c14db9d4d516d306ab213.jpg

[carlosjackal]

Hi Folks,

So here is the problem.

By connecting up as per the above diagram, I have come to the realisation the indicator and the park brakes are essentially all linked together.

My plan was to have dual tow sockets. NZ, and US.

I have wired into the existing loom which already feeds my existing NZ tow socket. This is Toyota factory installed, so that was working fine.

When testing the US socket.
I put the brake lights on and I get 12v showing on the tester. Then I put the indicator on and the tester is all over the place.

When I hook up my NZ trailer to NZ socket, everything comes on and flashes at the same time, regardless of which indicator is switched on.

I am hoping the US plug will work when I pick up the trailer, but I have doubts.

How can I send the brake and indicator to each without interrupting the other? would a Diode do the trick?

Its Thursday night here in NZ, I pick up the trailer Saturday morning from the port, so I only have one more chance to get what I need from town tomorrow.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers, Carl

[JRTJH]

Yes, it's a simple "diode isolator" that you need, however, trying to install one yourself may not be as easy (corrosion prevention/mechanical connection) as you think. In the US/Canada, there are two systems, integrated brake/turn lights and separate (yellow turn/red brake) brake/turn lights. Apparently, as in Europe, Australia uses the separate lighting system.

Here are a couple of "adapters" and a short explanation of the system. I'm not sure if these are even available in Australia since your trailer lighting is built to conform to your "double light" system that's on the tow vehicle. I believe the one you'd need is the one on the left that's listed for $18.38

Anyway, check this link and it should give you a bit of insight into what you've got: http://www.wiringproducts.com/tail-light-converters

Here's a YouTube video that explains a bit more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFJgmybAPdo

[carlosjackal]

OK, here is what I have done. Posting this in order to close the discussion and for anyone else who is in the same boat, to have an obvious solution.

Modules exist which will convert 3 cables into 2 (LH, RH, Stop into RH/Stop, RH/Stop). There are many variations of this theme. Point to note though, if you live in a country where you need these (NZ/OZ) then you will find them to cost between $100-150. Not always available, but the obvious solution.

As I was caught short. My solution is as follows:

I will fit a NZ plug on the trailer side to suit our existing.

NZ Yellow - US Red (Left Turn) Like for like
NZ Black - US Yellow (Reverse) Like for like
NZ White - US White (Earth) Like for like
NZ Green - US Brown (Right Turn) Like for like
NZ Blue - US Blue (Brakes) Like for like
NZ Red - US Black (STOP) This was Battery charger. I am removing this cable at the trailer end (see comments below) and will run a new cable from this terminal to the rear of the trailer for Stop lamp
NZ Brown - US Green

At the rear of the van, I am fitting new tail/indicator light combinations and jumpering the indicator and tail lights.
The existing stop lamps wont light up, instead they will just be tail lights, as no stop power going to them.
The new cable I will run to the rear will power the stop lamp in the new lamp combinations.

I can sneak the cables out under the existing lights, and fit the new light units directly beneath the existing, so you shouldn't see the cables.

I will then run a dedicated cable for the Battery charge with its own connection via a fuse from the alternator.

Sure, a converter module would have been better, but I have to work with what I have got as I am picking the bugger up tomorrow morning.

Thanks for your advice.

Carl

[JRTJH]

There are "some" tail lights available that are designed to do what you're attempting. While your solution will work, if you want something that is included all in one assembly, these may work for you
http://texmood.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=665_667

[carlosjackal]

There are "some" tail lights available that are designed to do what you're attempting. While your solution will work, if you want something that is included all in one assembly, these may work for you
http://texmood.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=665_667

Cheers John. We cant get them in country here (we only have half a dozen shops, and the donkey delivery has been for this month) and I have to pick up the trailer from port in 17 hours :-)

Regards

Carl

[JRTJH]

Good Luck !!!! Here's hoping that the lights are the only problem you encounter !!!! Enjoy your new RV and we're anxiously awaiting pictures when you get it home !!!

[carlosjackal]

Good Luck !!!! Here's hoping that the lights are the only problem you encounter !!!! Enjoy your new RV and we're anxiously awaiting pictures when you get it home !!!

it arrived.
a bit of corrosion from being at sea for 80 days, and no response from one of the electric brakes, but apart from that we are chuffed to bits with it. :-)

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_162765_0_44ad1693d3e89204f6847b2e17586e6d.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Jackal_Racing/media/FullSizeRender%201_zpskipc0pkk.jpg.html)
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_162765_1_88725f8a9b174b05af75a7cc2f1ae799.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Jackal_Racing/media/FullSizeRender_zpsykupeabf.jpg.html)
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_162765_2_3e2069517ab8906d905397159592bb8b.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Jackal_Racing/media/IMG_0473_zpsiuuislae.jpg.html)

[notanlines]

"Chuffed" I like that word! Anyway, tell us how you came out with the width problem you had a few days ago.....seems that the awning made it too wide. Thanks, and congrat's!

[carlosjackal]

Thanks.

In short, I didn't get away with it. They picked it up at the registration inspection as being 256cm (250cm max allowed), so I have to remove it to get it re-inspected. Then probably put it back on again, its a bit of a charade.

I see you are in Memphis. I went there for thanksgiving weekend in 1997. Me and a mate of mine drove from Ft Bragg in NC after work on a Friday, just for the weekend. A great place to visit from the snippits I remember :-)

Regards

Carl

[chuckster57]

Congrats!! You have succeeded in a major undertaking.