Question on weight balance

[gearhead]

I read posts about hitch weight and some folks saying to add water to put weight on the rear. Yes, it sounds logical. But, you braniacs, has anyone done an actual weight comparison? Is it 1:1? Like, if you add 400 pounds of water will you take 400 pounds off the kingpin?
Should we consider the fulcrum point of dual axles? No....let's not go there....just keep it simple, er, simpler.

[bsmith0404]

I don't have a rear holding tank to do a comparison for you, but to answer your question, no, adding 400 lbs to the rear will not take 400 off of the nose. The distance between the weight and the axle will factor in. If you remember back when you were a kid with a teeter totter, they had adjustable seats to move the weight forward or back to allow two people of different weights to balance. Additionally, adding weight to one side does not eliminate the effect of weight on the other, it just creates a balance, but there is still force applied. Too many factors at play to say how much weight comes off the nose and each situation will differ.

[Javi]

To put it simply... it is a percentage based on the distance from the pivot point.. The further from the pivot point the greater the effect..

[bsmith0404]

To put it simply... it is a percentage based on the distance from the pivot point.. The further from the pivot point the greater the effect..

Yeah, what he said:)

[johndeerefarmer]

I don't have a rear holding tank to do a comparison for you, but to answer your question, no, adding 400 lbs to the rear will not take 400 off of the nose. The distance between the weight and the axle will factor in. If you remember back when you were a kid with a teeter totter, they had adjustable seats to move the weight forward or back to allow two people of different weights to balance. Additionally, adding weight to one side does not eliminate the effect of weight on the other, it just creates a balance, but there is still force applied. Too many factors at play to say how much weight comes off the nose and each situation will differ.

Teeter totter with adjustable seats? We just had a wood 2x10". You just slid your butt along it to to balance it. Oh, don't forget the splinters. :eek:
Or when the kid on the bottom got off and let you fall to the ground.

[bsmith0404]

Teeter totter with adjustable seats? We just had a wood 2x10". You just slid your butt along it to to balance it. Oh, don't forget the splinters. :eek:
Or when the kid on the bottom got off and let you fall to the ground.

Yeah, we had some of those too, we preferred the high tech model :)

[gearhead]

So I guess y'all are forcing me to spend $10 at a CAT scale huh? LOL

[Desert185]

Without knowing the center of gravity of your trailer and doing a weight shift problem, if the tanks are forward of the trailer wheels, you aren't going to reduce pin weight by filling the tanks. If the tanks are aft of the wheels, then filling the tanks would reduce pin weight to a certain degree depending on how far aft the tanks are from the wheels (fulcrum point).

I try to keep my weight down by only having the FW tank half full and having empty GW tanks. The only way I can realistically affect (reduce) pin weight is by shifting load to the garage, because my tanks appear to be forward of the wheels.

[gearhead]

My freshwater tank is all the way rear. It holds 64 gallons per Keystone. Lets call it 500 pounds if it's full. From the center of the axles to the rear is 11 ft. From the same center of the axles to the kingpin is 22 ft. Pretty close to a 2:1 ratio.
So whataya think....fill the tank and take 250 lbs off the kingpin??
I am pulling it out Monday to take it to weld shop for a new heavier back bumper. Since I'm towing it anyway, I might spend the $20 to weigh it full and then empty.
More later...maybe!

[bsmith0404]

My freshwater tank is all the way rear. It holds 64 gallons per Keystone. Lets call it 500 pounds if it's full. From the center of the axles to the rear is 11 ft. From the same center of the axles to the kingpin is 22 ft. Pretty close to a 2:1 ratio.
So whataya think....fill the tank and take 250 lbs off the kingpin??
I am pulling it out Monday to take it to weld shop for a new heavier back bumper. Since I'm towing it anyway, I might spend the $20 to weigh it full and then empty.
More later...maybe!

reweighs within 24 hours are usually only $5, so saves you a little money.

[JRTJH]

Gearhead

If you use a CAT scale, all weights on the same day are $2, (after paying the full price for the first weight) so if you drag it to the welder with the FW tank full, weigh the trailer, pull off the scale, drain the tank and reweigh, or drain the tank while at the welding shop and reweigh on the way home, it won't cost you another "full price weigh". If you wait till the next day, it'll cost you the "full price" again.

Here's the FAQ on reweighs: http://catscale.com/faq

What is CAT Scale’s reweigh policy?
A reweigh for $2.00 may be charged, after the first weigh, if all of the following are true:
1.Same vehicle (tractor and trailer),
2.Full price ticket is presented by the customer and its number is recorded on the reweigh ticket,
3.Reweigh must be from the same scale as the full priced ticket,
4.Reweigh must be within 24 hours of the full priced ticket.

[gearhead]

I'm betting I won't get in and out of the weld shop in 1 day. Be nice if so though.
I was thinking about filling the tank, weighing, and then draining the tank at the truck stop, and re-weighing. I may have to write myself a "sticky"!
The calculus teacher snoozing in the recliner next to me said to quit bothering her with these stupid questions....she's RETIRED.LOL

[gearhead]

Filled the tank before I left for the weld shop. Got the bumper done. Stopped at a truck stop on the way home and weighed. Then drained the tank at the truck stop...45 minutes. Then weighed again...$2.

First weigh, full tank:
steer axle: 5060#
drive axle: 6240#
trailer axle: 9040#

Second weigh, empty tank:
steer axle: 5080#
drive axle: 6380#
trailer axle: 8560#

So, with an empty tank I lost 480# on the trailer axle, and gained 140# on the truck axle. Interesting.

[notanlines]

Leaving calculus behind for now and reverting to eighth grade math, we can deduct that for every three pounds of "stuff" loaded at the rear you relieve one pound on the drive axle. That about close?
Now for my question. I have never made use of the CAT scales at a truck stop. Is there any grief involved, or do you just drive on and pay at the scale?

[bsmith0404]

Leaving calculus behind for now and reverting to eighth grade math, we can deduct that for every three pounds of "stuff" loaded at the rear you relieve one pound on the drive axle. That about close?
Now for my question. I have never made use of the CAT scales at a truck stop. Is there any grief involved, or do you just drive on and pay at the scale?

If you're really tall you can pay at the scale. The payment system is typically set up for big rigs. I just walk in and pay. No grief, easy to do.

[gearhead]

Leaving calculus behind for now and reverting to eighth grade math, we can deduct that for every three pounds of "stuff" loaded at the rear you relieve one pound on the drive axle. That about close?
Now for my question. I have never made use of the CAT scales at a truck stop. Is there any grief involved, or do you just drive on and pay at the scale?


Yes, there are ways to get weighed if you're not an 18 wheeler. First thing, the scale is one-way. So get yourself oriented on how you will approach the scale. Yes, there is a button to push when you get on the scale so the clerk in the store will weigh you. But...the button height is for someone sitting in the cab of a 18 wheeler. What I do is find a place to park and go inside and tell the clerk I want to weigh a pickup truck and travel trailer. The clerk will have to watch for you and hit the weigh button when you get on the scale. Then drive off the scale, park, and go pay and get the printed report. Yesterday the clerk got busy and forgot about me, so I had to do it again. I will say there was a language barrier. The scale is actually several different scales that are close together. You will be able to see that when you drive on it. Just get your different axles on different scales. The travel trailer axles are so close together I put them on the same scale.

[denverpilot]

I looked pretty funny standing on my running boards with a broom handle in my hand poking at the call button the first time I did it. ;)

Then they asked for my truck number. Ha. Huh? ;)

Now I just go in first and pay and tell them what I'm doing. Works sooooo much better. Haha.

[rhagfo]

I read posts about hitch weight and some folks saying to add water to put weight on the rear. Yes, it sounds logical. But, you braniacs, has anyone done an actual weight comparison? Is it 1:1? Like, if you add 400 pounds of water will you take 400 pounds off the kingpin?
Should we consider the fulcrum point of dual axles? No....let's not go there....just keep it simple, er, simpler.

Well the tandem axles don't act like a true fulcrum.

#1 Unless you add or remove the weight directly over the pin you will always add to or remove weight from the trailer axles.
The percentage added or removed from the pin is dependent the spread of the axles and the distance from the center of the axles. I doubt you will ever get a 1 for 1 reduction.

Just wondering what your concern is with that 5er and a F350, with a 12,500# GVWR should be well within the capacities of you TV.

[gearhead]

Not so much the GVWR as the truck payload. Yellow tag on the Ford says 3265 pounds payload. I'm pushing 3,000 now. Add a 150 pound washer/dryer combo and "I'm there".
It is what it is I guess.

[denverpilot]

Not so much the GVWR as the truck payload. Yellow tag on the Ford says 3265 pounds payload. I'm pushing 3,000 now. Add a 150 pound washer/dryer combo and "I'm there".

It is what it is I guess.


You were sooooo close to, "Honey, if you want a washer and dryer, I need a bigger truck!"

;) ;) ;)

[gearhead]

You were sooooo close to, "Honey, if you want a washer and dryer, I need a bigger truck!"

;) ;) ;)

You are so right!

[theeyres]

I'd say weight it see what's going on. My impression is that there are very few 5ers that need weight taken off the kingpin. It's usually the opposite. They bounce or chuck because there isn't enough weight on the kingpin.

[gearhead]

Earl: Who would think that towing a 5th with a 2175 advertised pin weight with a F350 you could have an issue with truck payload? I've weighed it several times and I'm about to run out of truck payload capacity (3265#).