So Called half-ton-towable fifth-wheels

[buzzcop63]

On the subject of "So-called half-ton towable fifth wheels" see Trailer Life, December 2014, page 38 for discussion of much debated subject. Read the article and compare with all the input from our knowledgably members. The last sentence for the article seems to sum up what the Forum has been saying, "Dial in a margin of safety because you're likely to be heavier than you think". What do you think?

[Tom]

I've towed with both (same TT) and IMO the 3/4 ton truck is far superior even if weight limits aren't exceeded.

Current 5th wheel could be towed with some properly equipped 1/2 ton but I won't ever do that.

[sourdough]

I think the article does a disservice to novice Rvers and potential RVers. The entire article seems to vindicate pulling a 5th wheel with a "properly" equipped 1/2 ton all the while saying that they are at or exceed the maximum loads for the vehicle. Their assumption of "payload" in the truck for a family is 2 150lb people...period. What about pup? What about the grandkids and their paraphanalia? Their loading and the trailer, and thus the pin weight, was less than minimal; it included zero supplies or owner "stuff".

As has been seen on this forum, the plethora of various weight limits, their interaction with each other etc. is very confusing to some. This article plays on that seems to me. It all boils down to what has been said on here many, many times; KNOW your weights and don't exceed them. DO add a good safety margin so that you can comfortably load and take what you need. They discuss pulling a 9,000lb trailer with a GM 5.3L. They also discuss that the Ford F-150 EcoBoost can pull 12k+ lbs. Who would do that? Who would want to do that? The article definitely sounded like it was written by someone who hasn't had do what he is encouraging others to do.

[TomHaycraft]

Buzzcop63, you beat me to a thread on the Trailer Life article.

Being a 1/2 ton owner who gets around nicely with my particular rig (acknowledged, with limitations, this rig won't see Wolf Creek, Slumgullian or Trail Ridge Road in Colorado ...), I dove straight into that article.

My impression, is they picked and chose their words rather carefully. There was no sugar-coating as tends to be the case in many of their articles cleverly disguised as advertising. The article described well the leg-work needed to confirm whether an owner's 1/2 ton truck can safety pull (and stop) a given trailer. The article wasn't greasing the rails to convince 1/2 ton owners that they can pull anything marketed as "1/2 ton towable" by the RV manufacturers.

But this doesn't just apply to 1/2 ton trucks, I'm doing the same exercise as I consider my next truck (3/4 ton or 1 ton) as I try to envision what our next trailer might be and whether (or how much) I might go north of 10,000 pounds.

[Desert185]

We loaded my bro-in-law's Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 shortbed with firewood level to the rails. It was very easy to induce sway, plus, it was a power-challenged stone at 5,000'. Can't imagine hitching a 5er to that truck.

[Yak]

This is a half ton towable 5er


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-u1QUOOXmWCU/T-doF5k--RI/AAAAAAAAANo/Zcr35JnIcoo/s1600/IMG_20120601_115425.jpg

[notanlines]

Looking at your photo above of the Scamp, we spent two months traveling (RVing) to Alaska this last summer and it is surprising how many of these are to be seen in campgrounds along the way. Somebody must like 'em.

[hankpage]

Just to make a point ... The Scamp is ½t towable but with all the gear loaded in that truck and a possible four passengers you still have to question PAYLOAD. (It does look like a nice combo) JM2¢, Hank

[theasphaltrv'er]

Also towed our old 31' TT with both 1/2 & 3/4 tons and our new 1/2 ton is far superior than our old 04 F-250 6.0. Now we're luggin around a 1/2 ton towable 5er.

[Desert185]

This is a half ton towable 5er


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-u1QUOOXmWCU/T-doF5k--RI/AAAAAAAAANo/Zcr35JnIcoo/s1600/IMG_20120601_115425.jpg

There's always an exception...but I bet my truck would tow it more effectively in the mountains. :)

[Hansel]

I will throw in my 2 cent's worth, I have a Laredo 285BH that the sticker say's it's under 7K, well it's more like over 8k when I took it too the scale. So I always get a laugh when someone post's "Is this enough truck" topic, here is another perfect example of the general public thinking they can go around towing 11K trailer with their F-150. I have a F-250 SD diesel and I would never tow 11K with a F-150 not saying it won't pull it, but not sure about the handling and stopping ability of the truck.

[theasphaltrv'er]

I will throw in my 2 cent's worth, I have a Laredo 285BH that the sticker say's it's under 7K, well it's more like over 8k when I took it too the scale. So I always get a laugh when someone post's "Is this enough truck" topic, here is another perfect example of the general public thinking they can go around towing 11K trailer with their F-150. I have a F-250 SD diesel and I would never tow 11K with a F-150 not saying it won't pull it, but not sure about the handling and stopping ability of the truck.

WOW!..Really .... who's towing a 11K RV with a F-150? :confused:

[Hansel]

WOW!..Really .... who's towing a 11K RV with a F-150? :confused:

Well the Ford web site state's 12,200lb when properly equipped:eek:

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/

[Randy_K]

Once again we can say that all " 1/2 ton " trucks are not the same. A F150 with trailer package and max tow can carry and tow more then the plain F250 3/4 ton. The new 2015 F150 is 750 lbs lighter yet will the same suspension . The 2015 will be even more capable. YOU HAVE TO READ THE SPECIFICATIONS .

[sourdough]

Look at it a different way; do you want a 11k-12k lb trailer pushing your 5300lb pickup truck around or would you rather have a 7-8k lb truck? Simple physics.

[dhn]

Not to mention bigger brakes. I read some where it's not just the pulling but stopping too. Been there done that, I will stick with my F250.

[ncgrl1]

BOY!!! This topic always brings about the same rage. I don't understand it. If you want to buy a semi to pull a fifth wheel, have at it. Or you can buy a variety of pickups that will also pull it. Will my 1/2 ton hemi truck pull it as well as your HD diesel? NO. But your 3/4 - 1 ton won't pull it as well as a Freightliner either. But my truck does pull it, and it pulls it well in my opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers everybody so much... "bouncey:

[sourdough]

Ncgrl1 - No rage here. Just common sense. I'm a 1/2 ton guy myself and don't particularly like 3/4 - 1 ton trucks, but, they have a place just like a 1/2 ton. That's why I went and bought a new 3/4 ton. My Ram 1500 hemi (with 14,000 miles:() pulled my trailer just fine and would have until I hit the 1st OH NO moment and found that the light suspension on a 1/2 ton (just look at the springs on a 1/2 ton Ram vs the 3/4-1ton) combined with the light weight of the truck itself would not handle a 10k+ trailer in getaway mode. It would just twist the truck up - I saw that happen to a half ton on the freeway at Clyde, TX. Thankfully they all just went flipping down an embankment and not into the other traffic. It's a safety issue, not a pulling issue - pure physics.

[Desert185]

Sourdough...and then there are exhaust brakes and bigger brakes. 4-8% grades can extend stopping distance, particularly with 1/2 ton brakes and brake fluid the color of Merlot. How many here haven't changed their brake fluid during the last 18-24 months?

[Javi]

BOY!!! This topic always brings about the same rage. I don't understand it. If you want to buy a semi to pull a fifth wheel, have at it. Or you can buy a variety of pickups that will also pull it. Will my 1/2 ton hemi truck pull it as well as your HD diesel? NO. But your 3/4 - 1 ton won't pull it as well as a Freightliner either. But my truck does pull it, and it pulls it well in my opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers everybody so much... "bouncey:

To be blunt about it.... we don't want to be on the same road at the same time, when that moment sneaks up and bites you in the butt... Other than that it ain't my problem..

I once pulled a 28ft Terry from Waco to Austin (95 miles) with a CJ5 Jeep... Now I had a 400hp Chevy V8, 4:88 gears and a 4" pipe with 1/4" walls bumper with a hitch welded to the frame.

I had absolutely no problem towing it as far as power.. The tongue weight didn't drop the Rancho springs even 2" and I didn't need no weight bars, or any sway bars...

But every time I got over 45 mph as a truck passed me I was all over the road, finally ended up using the access road anytime I could..

I made it, and I'd do it again if I had to, but I'd sure never tell anyone that it was safe or a good idea.. Too many things could have gone wrong and luckily didn't..

[wahoonc]

BOY!!! This topic always brings about the same rage. I don't understand it. If you want to buy a semi to pull a fifth wheel, have at it. Or you can buy a variety of pickups that will also pull it. Will my 1/2 ton hemi truck pull it as well as your HD diesel? NO. But your 3/4 - 1 ton won't pull it as well as a Freightliner either. But my truck does pull it, and it pulls it well in my opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers everybody so much... "bouncey:

I used to tow for a living...

The average person has NO CLUE when it comes to towing. I currently drive 50,000 miles a year for work. I would wager that at least half if not two thirds of the RV type towing rigs, as well as many lighter commercial rigs, I see on the road are illegal, not to mention unsafe. What blows my mind is how far from home some of these rigs are. MN plates in GA, NJ plates in NV, etc.

I am very conservative when it comes to towing, safety first. Mine and everyone elses!

FWIW I tow with everything from an F150 to a Class 8. For the lighter trucks my basic rule is 75% of truck rated towing capacity against the max GVW of the trailer. Anything that doesn't match up gets further scrutiny. Can that be exceeded safely? Absolutely, but not without qualification.

Aaron:cool:

[sourdough]

Javi - CJ5 - 28' trailer? Man, I knuckle up pulling my wood splitter with my CJ7. Of course I just have the original (rebuilt) 258ci and 4:10s but...whew! A CJ5 is so short and all CJs weigh next to nothing. As far as doing it again - please! take care of yourself :)

[notanlines]

Actually I rather enjoy reading posts like these rather than the old "I have mice in my couch" type subjects. I personally would rather just buy a 2500 Chevvy and be ready to go than to load up a 1500 to make it comparable, but if I happened to own the 1500 on the front end then it only makes sense to "run what you brung" if at all possible. Also, I might add that when one travels across this country and Canada you will see every kind of combination under the sun. The main problem rigs we see are crossovers (Bumber pulls) hauling trailers way, way beyond their capabilities. Brenda and I are boaters and we also haul a 35' Fountain Lightning. Boat and trailer full of fuel weigh in at just over 12K. If you watch the highway you will see many, many cars and trucks hauling large boats with no WDH at all.

[sourdough]

AGYOUNG

Maximum combined GCVW for any combination for your truck is 17,100 - possibly less. Your weight of 17,700 at the scales tells you that you are considerably overweight. You can't make a 1/2 ton pickup into a 3/4 ton with heavy springs and air bags. You need to replace the frame as well........
I know you had the truck when you bought the trailer and want to use it...been there, done that. I hope you seriously consider a truck upgrade when you sell your house for the well being of yourself, your family and those sharing the road with you.

[sourdough]

AGYOUNG

Further food for thought:

Your F150 maximum payload is 1599lbs - 2400lbs max. depending on truck configuration. The pin weight (unloaded) of your trailer is 2165lbs. Loaded your pin will exceed 2200lbs. If you have a max payload, which you may not, you have 200 lbs left for people and everything else. Your truck loaded, as you stated, is 6600lbs. That is about 1300lbs over dry weight. You had 200lbs before you hit MAX payload but you have 1300lbs - way overweight. I could go on but you get the drift. You have way more trailer than what your truck can safely tow. Even your own weights tell you that you are within 100lbs of the VERY MAX you can safely tow with the truck....on paper (the one weight category you are somewhat close to meeting). Please give it some serious thought. "Pulling" is a tiny piece of the "towing" equation.

***Did not see post above until after this was written. I will post anyway in case you haven't crunched these - might help in speccing a new truck. Good luck on the sale of the home and purchase of a new truck. There won't be a lot of difference between the 3/4 ton vs the 1 ton for the wife unless you go DRW.

[larry337]

In my opinion you can't paint everyone into the same corner. There are too many variables. One thing that stands out is these modern trucks, all of them, are way more stout than they were 20-25 years ago. Properly equipped half tons have similar capability to the old 3/4 tons. Add in traction control, sway control, ABS, hill decent, hill assist and you have a pretty capable half ton truck. Things to consider: 1) USAGE-If were talking short weekend trips on flat ground a half ton could work at max capacity. Its not feasible for some people to buy a big $60k truck for a few short trips and try to drive to work in tight parking garages, let alone fit it into their own garage. Now if the trips are longer, thru mountain ranges, etc then a bigger truck may make more sense. 2) STRAIN on the TV. Again the more you push the truck the more likely you are to break something. Also the more you drive the more you have to factor in driver fatigue and a bigger truck handles the load better and easier. 3) SAFETY-In my opinion the number one factor in safety is the driver period. The best way to handle an "uh oh" moment is to not get into one in the first place. I got news for ya, an evasive manuever with a big top heavy trailer is probably not going to end well no matter the tow vehicle. They're not made to swerve. To prevent "uh oh" moments keep plenty of following distance. Roughly 6-8 seconds at highway speed. Keep your eyes focused farther down the road. As far as you can see. Keep scanning. Don't fall into staring at the road in front of your hood or the vehicle in front of you. Check your mirrors frequently, like every 30 seconds or even more. Know whats around you. Avoid aggressive driving. I say all this as a professional truck driver who pulls doubles and triples on the Ohio turnpike every night in all kinds of weather.

A half ton at max can work very well for some people, not all, when driven safely. Personally I prefer a 3/4 ton because I know it does a better job. That's just me though. I understand why some people choose to use a half ton and I agree there's cases where it would work. But a 337FLS with a half ton? Thats too much my friend, get a bigger truck!:)

[Festus2]

I understand why some people choose to use a half ton and I agree there's cases where it would work. But a 337FLS with a half ton? Thats too much my friend, get a bigger truck!:)

larry337 -
I would suspect that there are a number of members, including myself, who would agree with you that an F150 is just not enough truck for a 37' 5th wheel. It seems that AGYoung agrees and that sometime down the road, he'll get a bigger truck.

He indicates that he will "consider a diesel but until then it's happy trails for us" and that "we're going to dance with the girl I brought until a different song is played". I understand that to mean that he'll keep pulling his 5th wheel with the truck he has now until he is able to get a bigger and more suitable tow vehicle.

In the meantime while "we" are waiting for that to happen, he will be on the road towing a 5th wheel that is clearly too much for his F150 - a situation which is not only unsafe but also dangerous IMO. This may be "happy trails" for AGYoung, but not for the rest of us.

According to AGYoung, the F150 "has demonstrated its ability to tow my 5th wheel", he is "still below the towing capacity of the truck (according to his math) ", it "handles fine, stopping is good" and that it "has no trouble towing".

I think that your situation is not one of those cases where towing a 5th wheel of that size and weight with your F150 would work and I too would encourage you to consider moving up to a bigger truck before you "dance with the girl I brought until a different song is played".

Please, listen to the music and get a new dance partner.

[JRTJH]

I may be wasting my time by even composing this and posting it, however, I do feel it is important enough to take the time to express my feelings on the topic. The following is my opinion. Others may disagree, but these are the facts as I see them:

My 2013 F250 supercab 6.2l gas engine (GVW 10,000 lb) has a payload of 2747 lbs (per the yellow loading sticker). If it were a diesel the payload would be reduced about 500 lbs, if it were a crewcab it would be reduced another 250 lbs, if it were a short bed (6'8") it would add about 150 lbs to the payload. This is an estimate: the anticipated payload for a 2015 F250 6.7L diesel XLT crewcab will be about 2147 lbs. Someone who has this model truck could please confirm their payload.

With my gas engine truck and its 2747pound payload, I'd be reluctant to load my wife (145), dog (80), generator (125), 5 gallons of gas (30), blue tote (20), hitch (150) and attempt to pull that trailer. My load before the tongue weight would be about 550 pounds. That would leave me with a remaining payload of 2197. Considering the Cougar 337FLS, by the time you add the empty pin weight of 2165 plus a battery (45) and propane (60) the trailer pin already weighs 2270 pounds. That means that the EMPTY trailer is 73 pounds over the payload of my gas F250 XLT loaded as I usually do to travel with my wife. Remember that the diesel will be about 500 heavier, the Lariat package will be about 200 pounds heavier, any cargo you add to either the truck or trailer will significantly put the rig in overweight status.

There is simply no way the "heaviest" F150 can safely tow a Cougar 337FLS. I honestly believe that the dealer who sold this trailer to anyone with the knowledge that it would be towed with an F150 should be dealt with appropriately by not only Keystone, but the state Attorney General and the County Prosecutor. It should be a crime to represent this type of trailer as being "half ton towable".

The F350 single rear wheel truck (with a GVW of 11,500 lbs) is the same physical size as the F250 with a GVW of 10,000 lbs. The SRW F350 is, in my opinion, the appropriate truck to pair with a 37' fifth wheel that has an empty weight of slightly more than 10200 pounds and an empty pin weight of about 2200 lbs (with battery and propane).

As for driving the F250/F350, the chassis, body length and width are the same. The F350 does sit about 1" higher than the F250, otherwise, they are identical in size. Ride, however is a bit rougher, but not noticeably rougher once it is on the highway. The most common time to notice the difference in ride quality is when test driving the two trucks, one after the other. Once either truck becomes a "daily driver" most drivers notice little if any difference in "their truck ride quality".

AGYOUNG, I would urge you not to tow that size trailer with an undersized and under-rated F150. Should you be involved in an accident, even if it isn't your fault, almost any lawyer could easily prove negligence on your part. However, even if you aren't involved in an accident, placing your family and the public safety at risk is inappropriate. Should anything happen, the guy you look at in the mirror is the one you will have to live with as you try to come to grips with what happened.

[larry337]

I agree with everybody but I just wanted to point out my argument was more to the debate of the so-called tweener trailers in the seven to eight thousand pound range. The 337 is by no means a tweener and is not advertised by Keystone as a half ton fifth wheel.

[chuckster57]

I understand all the arguments stated. Yes the dealer who sold me the trailer and associated upgrades saw the truck and was expressly informed that it would be the tow vehicle. One of the service managers was kind enough to pick up my truck to install the air bags, 5W hitch and bed mounted trailer plug.

Do you think for one minute that the RV dealer cared of your TV was rated to tow the trailer or not?

Did he tell you that adding airbags increased the axle rating?

Not trying to rain on your parade, but rather provide insight.

Air bags do NOTHING for weight ratings, they just keep the headlights from pointing to the sky.

[sourdough]

JRTJH

Composing your post is not a waste. You, Festus and others helped convince me to buy a new truck although I certainly didn't want it (existing truck had 14k miles). I was at or near all my load limits and I could not reconcile pulling the trailer any longer (after many sleepless nights) and thinking of what I could do to my family or others.

AGYOUNG

It's obvious that you didn't do hour homework before buying the RV. The numbers are glaringly obvious. If you let the RV salesperson tell you what your towing specs were without any research on your part...shame on you. If, after knowing that you could put your family and others in danger - to a great degree, you choose to be flippant about what you are doing, again, shame on you.

I don't think anyone trying to steer you in the right direction and worrying about your family's safety owes you $100 so you can do the right thing. I determined I had to "buck up"; what say you?

Your concern needs to be with the situation where you lose control of your trailer ( which could very easily happen) due to such gross overweighting, it goes out of control, instead of going over the embankment it actually slides into oncoming traffic, hits another vehicle and kills the occupants, as you, in total lack of control, watch your truck start tumbling down an embankment tossing your wife and kids out of the truck rolling over them leaving you alive.

When the state police investigate you are found to be grossly overweight. You will go to prison, have a huge fine, face tremendous civil penalties and have to live with looking at yourself every day knowing you killed your family. Your life will be over. Why?

I'm sorry about being graphic but I'm not sure you get it. I've seen this. I helped pull the folks out of the trees amid the shambles of the RV/truck. You don't want that....I promise.

[Ken / Claudia]

I wish that the police/firefighters/EMS would tell their stories on here about that worst crash investigation they seen or where told about by coworkers regarding what happened when the overloaded pickup/trailer combo hit someone else. Mine was told to me and I seen the photos from a coworker. 1 ton truck pulling a flatbed with backhoe. Freeway traffic stopped, he did stop only after his pickup was on top of a small car killing all inside. I do not know how much over weight it was and does it really matter. But, as with most of these stories it started with driving to fast, following to close, trailer brakes some worked some not correctly. Story ended years later in court.

[JRTJH]

I don't think you'll find very many people who need another dependent and $100 from each active member probably won't make a good down payment on a truck. Since you brought up the "bargaining aspect", How about this: It's winter, your trailer is either in storage or should be by now, you know the reality of the tow vehicle you currently own and realize it's inadequate for your purposes. So, why not consider leaving the trailer sit until you sell the house and can afford to upgrade your tow vehicle. You wouldn't jump out of an airplane without a parachute (maybe even with one) so why put yourself and your family at risk by towing an unsafe rig unnecessarily?

To illustrate a bit, I owned a 2010 F150 HD with max tow package. We towed a 26' Springdale fifth wheel and towed our bass boat behind that. When the trailer was destroyed by a falling tree, we elected to upgrade to a Cougar 27RKS. That's a 31' XLite fifth wheel that is marketed as "half ton towable". I did the math and elected to buy our current F250 rather than tow with an F150 that was "likely to be overloaded" by the new Cougar. Empty weight is about 7200 lbs, pin weight is 1250 lbs and GVW is 10,000 lbs. It's "well within" the specs that Ford established for my F150, provided I leave either my wife, the dog or possibly both at home "IF" the trailer is loaded at GVW.

You're not the only one who had to face the purchase of a new tow vehicle with the desired RV. The forum is filled with threads of people who wanted to upgrade and first had to get an adequate tow vehicle. There are even some accounts of people who tried it and then realized their light duty tow vehicle is "in over its head". I just did the upgraded truck and larger RV last June. If you compare the two, my 7200 lb Cougar and your 10,000 lb Cougar, you'll see that you are 2800 pounds heavier "EMPTY" than I am with a pin weight that's 1000 pounds heavier. That's like pretending the elephant sitting on your chest doesn't affect your breathing..... You simply can't ignore the fact that you're turning purple as you gasp for air.

I wouldn't tow that big of a fifth wheel to the dealer for service with that truck, much less risk a winter tow from Minnesota to Florida on icy roads !!!!! It really sounds like your dealer, salesman and the service manager didn't do you any favors at all.

[Javi]

I may be wasting my time by even composing this and posting it, however, I do feel it is important enough to take the time to express my feelings on the topic. The following is my opinion. Others may disagree, but these are the facts as I see them:

My 2013 F250 supercab 6.2l gas engine (GVW 10,000 lb) has a payload of 2747 lbs (per the yellow loading sticker). If it were a diesel the payload would be reduced about 500 lbs, if it were a crewcab it would be reduced another 250 lbs, if it were a short bed (6'8") it would add about 150 lbs to the payload. This is an estimate: the anticipated payload for a 2015 F250 6.7L diesel XLT crewcab will be about 2147 lbs. Someone who has this model truck could please confirm their payload.

With my gas engine truck and its 2747pound payload, I'd be reluctant to load my wife (145), dog (80), generator (125), 5 gallons of gas (30), blue tote (20), hitch (150) and attempt to pull that trailer. My load before the tongue weight would be about 550 pounds. That would leave me with a remaining payload of 2197. Considering the Cougar 337FLS, by the time you add the empty pin weight of 2165 plus a battery (45) and propane (60) the trailer pin already weighs 2270 pounds. That means that the EMPTY trailer is 73 pounds over the payload of my gas F250 XLT loaded as I usually do to travel with my wife. Remember that the diesel will be about 500 heavier, the Lariat package will be about 200 pounds heavier, any cargo you add to either the truck or trailer will significantly put the rig in overweight status.

There is simply no way the "heaviest" F150 can safely tow a Cougar 337FLS. I honestly believe that the dealer who sold this trailer to anyone with the knowledge that it would be towed with an F150 should be dealt with appropriately by not only Keystone, but the state Attorney General and the County Prosecutor. It should be a crime to represent this type of trailer as being "half ton towable".

The F350 single rear wheel truck (with a GVW of 11,500 lbs) is the same physical size as the F250 with a GVW of 10,000 lbs. The SRW F350 is, in my opinion, the appropriate truck to pair with a 37' fifth wheel that has an empty weight of slightly more than 10200 pounds and an empty pin weight of about 2200 lbs (with battery and propane).

As for driving the F250/F350, the chassis, body length and width are the same. The F350 does sit about 1" higher than the F250, otherwise, they are identical in size. Ride, however is a bit rougher, but not noticeably rougher once it is on the highway. The most common time to notice the difference in ride quality is when test driving the two trucks, one after the other. Once either truck becomes a "daily driver" most drivers notice little if any difference in "their truck ride quality".

AGYOUNG, I would urge you not to tow that size trailer with an undersized and under-rated F150. Should you be involved in an accident, even if it isn't your fault, almost any lawyer could easily prove negligence on your part. However, even if you aren't involved in an accident, placing your family and the public safety at risk is inappropriate. Should anything happen, the guy you look at in the mirror is the one you will have to live with as you try to come to grips with what happened.

John, here is my door sticker..

[JRTJH]

Thank you for your service, who knows we may have been at the same place or nearby during those trying times. A large number of veterans are the members contributing to this thread. It's not hostility, rather concern that causes us to express our concern for the safety of your family. If you take the comments any other way, you're the one that's getting upset by our honesty, personal experiences and factual information. Whatever you choose to do, none of the members wish you anything but safe travels. The reality of the situation is that you control those safe travels more so than any of us.

I hope you have as good a day as possible after learning the facts about your RV and tow vehicle.

Good Luck,

[sourdough]

ACYOUNG

As has been stated; these posts are an effort to 1) help you know things you may not know, 2) identify where you may be jeopardizing yourself or others and hopefully help you in every other aspect of trying to "RV".

You obviously have convinced yourself with what you are doing and no matter how right/wrong they are you are in control.

This is a friendly forum. Lord knows when I came in with my observations I was shot at and shot down. I know how to take that and I appreciated everyones concern...for me. I also knew how to accept that I had made a bad decision....I can't blame my decisions on others.

As far as leaving your 50k investment until you've met the expectations of those on this forum; I would hope that you would leave your 50k investment sitting due to your common sense, lack of personal research and concern for the welfare of your family.

I thank you for your service but I doubt that you and I would have crossed paths.... You're on a forum that has lots of vets; older vets; we don't bring up service etc. as some sort of "line". We all grew up.

Wish you the best with your travels and please..DO give us your itinerary so you don't try to kill us :)

[Hansel]

Once again we can say that all " 1/2 ton " trucks are not the same. A F150 with trailer package and max tow can carry and tow more then the plain F250 3/4 ton. The new 2015 F150 is 750 lbs lighter yet will the same suspension . The 2015 will be even more capable. YOU HAVE TO READ THE SPECIFICATIONS .

Okay I knew someone would pick up on what I said, that's my point some people will just look at a number and say ya I can tow 11K camper.

I wish that the police/firefighters/EMS would tell their stories on here about that worst crash investigation they seen or where told about by coworkers regarding what happened when the overloaded pickup/trailer combo hit someone else. Mine was told to me and I seen the photos from a coworker. 1 ton truck pulling a flatbed with backhoe. Freeway traffic stopped, he did stop only after his pickup was on top of a small car killing all inside. I do not know how much over weight it was and does it really matter. But, as with most of these stories it started with driving to fast, following to close, trailer brakes some worked some not correctly. Story ended years later in court.

I spent from 1986 to 2005 as a firefighter/EMT and I had seen plenty of vehicle accident's, the area I worked was mostly agricultural which means heavy equipment (sugar cane trucks) and they show no mercy, when run into or run over something. I have seen first hand car's, truck's, and SUV's torn apart like a tin can by sugar cane truck's and trailer's, one we responded too was someone struck the back of a trailer, everyone was DOA it was probably one of the nastiest call's I'd ever seen. they say speed kills', well it does.

Also I believe the dealership's need more education on a properly spec'd tow vehicle, and not just selling the biggest unit on the lot. And as for those that feel that some of us overreact when someone want's too tow more than what's recommended doesn't care about the other's on the road, I have seen what happens to a person when accident's happens and every time I see a overloaded truck/RV I wish I was a DOT officer. People cant be replaced.

[notanlines]

All of you need to click on the latest post under the "Towing" section titled "What the heck."

[Javi]

I can understand getting bent out of shape at us folks for jumping all over you; it is however the nature of the beast.

Some of us have been running these roads for a long time and we've seen a lot of mayhem caused by well meaning folks who are not uncaring nor are they stupid. Rather they are just uninformed, or in a lot of cases misinformed and mislead.

[Desert185]

THE HORSE IS DEAD. Stop beating it.

Ok everyone. I give up. I'll leave the RV parked until I meet all the expectations of the members of this forum. In fact I will give up RVing completely. I never though I could be so stupid to think eveyone is friendly here.

I'll just let my $50,000 investment sit until I can fulfill everyone elses expectations. If I wanted all this grief I would have stayed married to my first wife. I volunteered to go back to the combat zone to get away from her. Getting shot at was preferrable. At least there I could shoot back along with 120 of my closest friends.

Just think my brothers and I bled so each any every of you can speak your piece without any repercussions.


See you all on the Happy Trails.
I promise to post our itinery so those of you that feel it necessary to stay off MY ROAD can do so.

Stick aound and lurk for awhile. This forum is atypical of many on the net in that it is helpful without condemnation and condescension (really). Folks are just trying to help your cause...its nothing personal. You really do have weight issues and no one wants to see you, your's, their's and others get hurt. At least take it to heart from folks who are really trying to help and then do what you think is best for your current circumstances. Consider it a learning process from others who have made the same mistakes.

Thanks for your service, from a fellow vet.

[buzzcop63]

My post was made to get reactions from knowledgeable RVers to the Trailer Life article as well as the article on The Grand Design new Reflection 27RL 5th wheel that is also in this issue, this trailer, as the article states "it was designed specifically to be towed behind the current crop of properly equipped half-ton pickups". This trailer is a 30'11" length with a GVWR of 9,995Lb. The test truck was a 2014 Chevy Silverado with the 6.2L, 420HP V-8 and a 9,500-pound tow rating, trucks GVWR of 7,200 pounds and 1,957 pound payload. In the article on the Half-Ton Towing, and I quote "So we traveled with no water in the tank, packed lightly and squeaked by for this test." The article states that when they added water, propane and no supplies the trailer weighed 8,780 pounds and had a pin weight of 1,640 pounds, which left them with 317 pounds of payload capacity with no one in the truck!

AGYOUNG got taken to task for his truck-trailer combination because he believed his dealer. Trailer Life writers who we would expect to be experts, in my opinion did the same thing in their selection of TV, they did look at the numbers and still arrived at a choice that is not practical or safe?

I to thank AGYOUNG for his service and want him to know that he is doing more then most RV owners in taking the time to log onto a Forum like this one and learn. If you post questions or make statements on the Forum you open yourself to opinions from others that might be stated strongly but in the end it is very much worth it for the knowledge and safety that it will bring all of us out their doing what we enjoy with our families.

[chuckster57]

We are a Grand Design dealer, gonna watch for that model.

[LittleJoe]

AG YOUNG

At least do this.......scale your truck and MAKE SURE your rear axle weight is not over the max door sticker. ALSO make sure the rear axle weight load is not over the max weight of the tires rating.

If it is your goose is cooked if DOT ever spot checks you (and they do often check obvious problem non commercial veh) aside from fines it is not safe if you are over these limits

As far as weight you are pulling , DOT do not keep records of all the configurations of all the different trucks. When they scale you they check weight on the axles, You had best not be over.......If you are over on tires, that vehicle will not be moving any farther.

If these two weights are good, as has already been said by other professional drivers, the driver is the largest input too safety.

[pakuma]

We have a 2011 Ram 1500 Hemi that does well towing our Cougar.
My dealer checked with Ram body builders and they told us that we could tow a max of 9950 pounds with a 1500 pound hitch weight. The trailer GVW is 10,200 pounds. We have towed it in northern Arizona with some 7 and 8 % climbs, it was slow but no real problems. so far we have towed over 5,000 miles with no problems except the China Bombs, which I am replacing with Maxxis ordered from the dealer.

[Marcusjolaine]

Do you think for one minute that the RV dealer cared of your TV was rated to tow the trailer or not?

Did he tell you that adding airbags increased the axle rating?

Not trying to rain on your parade, but rather provide insight.

Air bags do NOTHING for weight ratings, they just keep the headlights from pointing to the sky.

In defense of RV dealers (Camping World) when I recently purchased my TT they had to fill out a form with my trucks Payload and Tow capacity to make sure it could to tow the trailer I was buying before they would complete the paperwork.

[chuckster57]

I am willing to bet that the number of dealers that DO is less than the number that don't.

When I bought my current rig, that was the FIRST time a dealer asked what I was using as a TV.

[Tom]

Relying on a dealer for tow ratings or suitability of a vehicle to tow a particular trailer is the height of folly. If there is a problem or a wreck, you can bet the dealer will deny ever saying anything. Same goes for the salesman that sells trucks.

[notanlines]

All three major RV dealers in Memphis asked FIRST what my TV was and we went from there. All three even told me I couldn't even tow it off the lot with my F250. Kudos to all three of them.

[JRTJH]

Relying on a dealer for tow ratings or suitability of a vehicle to tow a particular trailer is the height of folly. If there is a problem or a wreck, you can bet the dealer will deny ever saying anything. Same goes for the salesman that sells trucks.

The last two fifth wheels I bought came with a "disclaimer" that I had to sign stating that I understood that determining the correct tow vehicle was MY responsibility and that I acknowledged the dealership was not responsible. I had to sign the "disclaimer" in order to proceed with closing the deal. I asked if it was optional, the finance manager stated that without that document in file, the dealership would not process the registration/title and finance documents.

So, at least at Camping World, Houghton Lake, MI and Brewbaker's RV in Onaway, if you don't sign the release of liability , the dealership won't sell you an RV.

There is also a "disclaimer" on the back of every Keystone brochure that states it is the purchaser's responsibility to make sure the tow vehicle is adequate for the RV being purchased. On the "X-lite" models, it goes on to say that RV's marketed as "half ton towables" aren't "towable by all half ton trucks".

[Dave-Gray]

I've received a few emails lately about half tons. Read the following Q&A (Bottom page) about the F150. http://rvtowcheck.com/FAQ_RVTC.html