296 FWRLS Slide and Other Problems

[Tim Cline]

We took posession of our new 296fwrls last week. Unfortunately the slides were already out during final inspection and instead of staying to watch them retract the slides I was taken up front to finish paperwork. Well we went straight to a local CG to unfold and go through everything. As soon as I attempted to extend the bedroom slide I new I was in trouble with all the banging and jerking that took place. i immediately called the dealer and got the obligatory "gee thats impossible it worked here". I looked over the system and found the top right corner cable
was just flopping around and was obviously never properly adjusted. We'll see how that goes as I returned it yesterday to have the suspension fixed, the electrical short that did not allow the a/c or heat to run with the lights on??? Hows that happen? The door over the LP tanks kept flying open going down the highway and had to be duct taped closed to get it back to dealer. The gutter drain was routed so that when the awning was roled up it directed rain into the awning rails. My 252fwrls I traded in was still sitting on the lot, I was tempted to hitch it up and tell them they get it back when I have a usable camper. We'll see how responsive this dealer is in correcting all these defects. Fingers crossed.

[chuckster57]

Wow! Sorry your having that many issues with a brand new unit. When you go to pick it up after repair, I would make the dealership demonstrate to you that each item was addressed and corrected.

[Tim Cline]

I have to give the dealer a chance to make it right. However that said there was no way they did not hear that grinding from the slide. But then again keystone did not catch it or the electrical issue. That one worries me more than the slide. Wintr is setting in here so unfortunately will have to wait for spring for another trial run. My dealer is 2 hours away so you better believe we're going to go through everything very thoroughly. Although the dealer did remind me it was Keystones warranty, not theirs. What the heck is that supposed to mean?

[chuckster57]

I would have thought all those issues would have been dealt with during the PDI, assuming the dealer actually did one. I just delivered an outback last week that the A/C compressor wouldn't energize. Turned out to be a loose connection behind the thermostat. I don't believe the factory does any comprehensive tests of the systems before shipping them to the dealer.

The warranty is indeed from keystone, not the dealer but they should be held responsible for the execution of the warranty as an authorized dealer. Make sure you don't wait past the warranty date to pick it up.

[sourdough]

Just went through the "it's a Keystone warranty, not ours" Friday with my selling dealership.

It's hard for me to keep in mind but they are pretty much right. Unlike an auto, they literally can't do anything unless Keystone signs off beforehand then authorizes the scope of the work etc. If parts are involved the dealership must wait for Keystone to send them after they (Keystone)do their investigation, get pics and on and on. The dealership does not keep an endless list of parts for every brand they sell. Last items we had to get (after I took pics and sent them to the dealership and Keystone) took 9 days for Keystone to authorize and then 17 days for them to get them to the dealership. This would be on top of the typical 3 week wait you have to get the unit in - and I installed the parts myself. Very frustrating and illustrates why you absolutely must go thru a comprehensive PDI before taking it off the lot. 2-3 trips to the dealer for these kinds of things and poof! the warranty is gone.

[Tim Cline]

Well the rv is still at the dealer as they now "battle" with Keystone on how to fix the slide out. I talked to the dealer today, I'm not interested in "battling" over an rv that I waited 2 weeks to be prepped for delivery, picked it up, used it less than 12 hours and had to return it because of the jammed slide, the electrical short, the propane door flying open etc. and now have been waiting another 2 weeks while the "battle" takes place with no resolution in sight. Dealers words not mine. I wll be notifying the lien holder of the location of "their" rv.

[sourdough]

Tim

Have you escalated this to the Service Manager, or better yet, the GM/owner? When I bought my RV the dealership told me it would be a few days because their initial walk thru had found either 12 or 15 items that had to be fixed; shower head water leak, adjust slides, etc. etc.

My CW dealership and Keystone have done a great job of trying to take care of my issues; and I'm a very demanding person. The dealership is "in the middle"; you buy a Keystone or xyz and the manufacturer has a warranty. Your dealership isn't an exclusive dealer like an auto dealer so deals with many manufacturers. Those manufacturers all have various processes and procedures you have to go thru before they will fix a warranty item.

I think the dealer may be a big part of the equation. They have to go to bat for you and do all the things that Keystone requires for a smooth warranty repair. If they don't, you will be stuck as you are trying to figure out what to do.

Sounds like the slide was not adjusted correctly and not found on the initial inspection by the dealership...if they had one. The issue you describe should be rectified, IMO, by the dealership/Keystone without a lot of trouble. Don't mess with the service tech or service writer etc. Your service manager and owner need to know you face to face. Document your issues and provide that to them so they can give that to Keystone. I usually flood them with info/pics and my "opinions"....which they usually don't want:)

[chuckster57]

Has the dealer told you what Keystone has authorized, denied, etc. And why has the dealer determined that it's going to be a "battle".

[Ken / Claudia]

Sounds as Tim will change his battle from the dealer/keystone to him and the bank. I only suggest that you read thru all the loan documents and or pay a lawyer to do so. But, it's your money do what ever you wish.

[Tim Cline]

The dealer used the word battle, not me. I'm not blaming the dealer. They are obviously doing what is being directed by Keystone. 6 weeks since I bought the thing drove it down the road and took it back. i'm not getting lawyers involved or anyone else. If this were a car it would have already legally been deemed a lemon simply from lost use time. I have another phone conference with sales, service today simply because the service department has been honest with me and agree this is unacceptable. Its a KEYSTONE issue AGAIN.

[notanlines]

First and foremost, any RV dealership worth its salt would have fixed the slide immediately! When a new unit is sent off in the condition this one was then common sense says fix it for the customer. Hell would freeze over before I would buy from them again.

[JRTJH]

I agree with notanlines, the dealership should have "just fixed it", but I think we need to understand the dynamics of what is likely to be going on here.

First, the trailer was manufactured by Keystone and transported to the dealership.

Second, the dealership did an "acceptance inspection" upon delivery.

Third, Keystone paid the dealership a significant amount of money to do a PDI on the trailer and to correct any "deficiencies" noted during the inspection. This PDI payment by Keystone can be upwards of $1000, depending on the cost of the RV and the items that are found to need repair/adjustment.

Fourth, the trailer was sold to the customer, then brought back for something that was found wrong.

Fifth, when the dealership contacted Keystone with the problem, requesting authorization to repair it, the question then becomes:

Was the dealership already paid to do the slide adjustment as a part of that initial PDI? If so, then should Keystone pay the dealer to do it a second time? Or should Keystone disapprove additional payment and insist the dealer repair the slide since they have already been paid to repair it as a part of the PDI that was done on Keystone's initial payment???

This forum is filled with comments from owners about dealerships that didn't do an adequate PDI when they bought their RV. We've heard about hot water heaters that leaked, air conditioners that weren't connected to the thermostat, water pumps that wouldn't run, furnaces that had no propane connection, refrigerators that weren't plugged in, and the list is endless.

There is a "fine line" between some dealership service departments which "paperwork the PDI" and some other dealerships that actually do the job that Keystone has already paid them to do. So, without knowing the situation here, it may be a "dealer's battle with Keystone" not because the company is refusing to pay for the repair, but because Keystone is saying, "We've already paid you to do that work and won't pay again." Either way, it's the dealership that needs to "step up" and keep the customer satisfied.

The comments on this forum may be well intentioned, but without knowing all the facts, some posters may be "dogging" Keystone when it's the dealership trying to "double dip" for repair money. We just don't know enough to make a judgment on what is really happening in this (or in many other) situations.

[sourdough]

JRTJH

I agree. The dealership is responsible for going thru the RV before you pick it up to make sure it's as ready as it can be for the new owner. In this case, the dealership should be so embarrassed that a new unit left their lot with that kind of problem that they just immediately take it back in and fix it..then deal with Keystone. IMO they get an F for unit prep before delivery.

[Tim Cline]

I was told today keystone has agreed to pay the dealer $3000 to repair the slide and have agreed it needs to be removed for repair. They are now waiting for new slide parts. I told them 4 weeks ago it would have to come out. They put the living room wall back in after pulling new wires but are waiting for new trim that was broken during removal. We're talking at least a couple more weeks. Just glad this is not May.

[chuckster57]

Well it looks like your trailer is at least getting repaired. Batten trim is almost impossible to remove without breaking it, and as long as the factory is sending new, it's a non issue in my opinion.

[ozkamper]

doesn't the manufacturer ever take trailers back to the factory for major repairs? Just curious.

[chuckster57]

doesn't the manufacturer ever take trailers back to the factory for major repairs? Just curious.
Not all the time. We have removed slides for lino work (full replacement). Last month we did get a factory (not Keystone) to accept a trailer back for major floor repair, so I can't say there is any rhyme or reason.

Without knowing all the conversations between the dealer and Keystone I can't say with any authority, but it'd bet the dealer said they could do the repair.

[Tim Cline]

Norco is sending a complete new slide frame. I think this is a learning experience for the dealer. I told the dealer when I come to pick it up that not only will I cycle all 3 slides until the cows come home but the frame around the slide that was removed should not have excess puttied holes etc from being removed and reinstalled. If need be they should install new wood trim. I find it hilarious that I have recieved 2 emails from the general manager and salesman exclaiming their amazement its been a whole month that I have been enjoying my new RV. Are you serious? Look in the service bay knuckleheads its still sitting there!

[Tim Cline]

Still waiting! Was just looking at the dealers facebook page, they have a picture of my wife and I picking up our camper in October how happy we look. It doesn't mention that less than 24 hours later it was sitting unusable waiting to be returned to the dealer, where it still sits today.

[notanlines]

Tim, you're only leaving a small amount of info from this story: The name of the dealership. It's more interesting if we know who the goofballs are that you're dealing with......:D

[Tim Cline]

I will wait until this has played out. They called me yesterday and left a quick voicemail. Parts won't be in until at least NEXT Wednesday. However all their "Techs" are off until next Friday so they will put me back on the schedule for then. Jim I've decided just to be patient, keep track of all the dates, save the emails and voice messages. When the Camper is done I intend to request an extension of warranty and reimbursement of payments made while the RV sat on their lot unusable from Keystone. it wil do no good at this point to engage in a "pissing contest" with them only to have them do a marginal repair as payback and claim I was unreasonable.

[notanlines]

As far as you have come with this problem I don't see where you have any choice at this point. I'm sure more flies are caught with honey but always keep that swatter handy.....:D

[Tim Cline]

Oh looky, they sent me the title for my trade in to sign. Think I'll hang on to it for awhile. Maybe drop it off when I get my NEW RV back, which may be April the way this is going.

[Tim Cline]

Wow, got a call Monday putting slide back in, got a call today, oops wrong parts slide still does not work. Tearing it back out. Hopefully after the holidays we'll have good news for you. Told them I'll be sitting on the title for the trade in. They did not seem to happy with that. 5 more days will make 2 months they have had it. Not to mention the 2 weeks they had it to prep for delivery. Crazy.

[JRTJH]

Hold your trade as ransom.... Just tell them: "When I get MY trailer, you get YOURS" LOL

[Tim Cline]

Got a call last monday they were pulling the slide again. Then nothing. I can't even remember what the dang RV even looks like. I refuse to call them back and ask since I only get aggravated and the only thing I want to hear is its done and we extended your warranty. At some point this has to end. After almost 3 months I think it might be time to call this dealers home office.

[ismwo]

Unbelievable, sorry your having this experience. I started reading this from the beginning and it read like a soap opera. Hope all works out for you, thinking of buying a keystone 5th wheel, still thinking now.

[Tim Cline]

Well, guess what ladies and gents. Went to pick up the RV today, 2 hours to the dealer, get 20 minutes away and the phone rings. Its the dealer asking if I was actually coming, yes says I. Oh not good says the service manager, seems we tried to finally winterize your camper since we have had it inside since October and the water pump is blowing fuses, uh oh. So we head on in there axchanged a few words and I procede to check out the slides. Screws missing cables STILL misadjusted, rain gutters over slide still diverting water into the awning rail, never cleaned up their mess wire and insulation bits stuck all in carpet. They ahuled me into an office and closed the door. Reminded me that its Keystones warranty and I reminded them it was THEIR reputation they should worry about and not keystones. Then he feels it necessary to tell me there is no lemon law on RV's and if lawyers get involved they are out. I never mentioned lawyers or lemon law. And then had the gall to ask me what I thought my share should be to replace the RV if necessary! WHAT? MY SHARE? I pulled my truck around and removed all my belongings from the camper we had left in it from our 1 night of use back in October. The sales manager is looking worried and said he wil talk to Keystone Monday and see what they are willing to do.
I then slipped the Title to the old camper which is still on the lot back into my pocket told them good luck and left. Total 5 hours round trip and time at Dealer wasted.

[sourdough]

Wow! It was suggested earlier that this may be a dealership issue, and by this turn of events it definitely is in my opinion. Also sounds as if their repair folks don't know much about repairs, cleanup or professionalism. After their inability to do anything right I can't believe they called you into an office and had that conversation. If you held your cool you did better than I would have been able to do. I don't know how much experience you've had with rv dealers but most aren't like that.

You're going to have to do something about the contract you signed and those legal implications. If the dealer asked what you thought your share of a new unit would be I would tell him exactly what my original contract states. If not, you may have to deal with the bank and I'm not sure how that will come out. From the way it sounds I doubt this dealer has much clout with Keystone; they probably know him for what he is. By the way, who is this dealer and where are they located? I want to make sure I never make the mistake of stopping in there.

[Festus2]

Wow! It was suggested earlier that this may be a dealership issue, and by this turn of events it definitely is in my opinion.

By the way, who is this dealer and where are they located? I want to make sure I never make the mistake of stopping in there.

sourdough -
Sometimes, a buyer who is in the midst of trying to work out a solution to an issue he may with the dealership may be reluctant to divulge their name and location. During these "negotiations" the buyer is probably trying to remain non-confrontational and to "keep his cool" while at the same time, feeling a sense of anger and frustration.

If, in the midst of trying to work out a solution with the dealer, the buyer goes on line to a forum and badmouths the dealer, divulges his name and tells everyone to stay away, it could come back to haunt him. I can see where the customer may not want to jeopardize the relationship between him and dealer - no matter how flimsy that may be.

Trying to work with an uncooperative and incompetent dealer is not an easy task and if the dealer were to find out that the customer has "spread the word" on an internet RV forum then that could be the end of any possible compromise or solution for the customer.

In the end and after every avenue has been exhausted by the customer to "make it work" and is getting nowhere, then that might be a better time to "name names". Until that happens then asking the customer to identify the dealer may not be in his best interests.

[Tim Cline]

Thank you Festus. I will only add this dealer actually has 3+ locations. My salesman did ask if I was open to sending the rv back to Goshen for repair. I suggested they call their other locations and bring in a more experienced tech or have the slide manufacturer send a rep to properly adjust the slides and at the same time teach their guys how to do it correctly. Or send someone in from Keystone. As a field service tech in the CNC industry I've been on both sides of this dance.

[accordionman]

we had problems with our electric awning . it was still under warranty and neither Keystone or Lippert would send a new motor . my wife got really mad and called the dealership and asked to speak to the owner . we had a trip planned with no operable awning . he said I will take care of it . at the time , my truck was in the shop for a few days and I had no way to take it to the dealer about 10 minutes from our house . he came down ,pulled the unit back to the dealership , pulled an electric motor off of another unit and towed the unit back to our home all set for our trip . that is an example of a great dealer in my book . they will be getting our business as we need repairs etc. good luck with your unit.

[JRTJH]

we had problems with our electric awning . it was still under warranty and neither Keystone or Lippert would send a new motor . my wife got really mad and called the dealership and asked to speak to the owner . we had a trip planned with no operable awning . he said I will take care of it . at the time , my truck was in the shop for a few days and I had no way to take it to the dealer about 10 minutes from our house . he came down ,pulled the unit back to the dealership , pulled an electric motor off of another unit and towed the unit back to our home all set for our trip . that is an example of a great dealer in my book . they will be getting our business as we need repairs etc. good luck with your unit.

You're so correct when you say that this is an example of a "good dealer". This is the kind of support and service most of us expect when we have a problem with our purchase and it's under warranty. You have every right to expect your dealership to help you and even to "go the distance" in doing so.

Now, as has been said so many times, if you had bought from a dealership 500 miles away, what kind of support would you "reasonably expect" from the dealership that's 10 minutes away?

I think that is something we should think about when trying to cut corners and think we're saving a couple thousand dollars.... By the time you pay for fuel, time, tow vehicle operating expenses, motels, meals and the other things required to buy from a "distant dealer", and then to add the "cost of this kind of support", what is the real savings by not buying local? There's a certain amount of "cost" associated with supporting a dealer like this and often it's an investment that pays dividends for years to come.

I'm sure you'll be happy with your RV and with the dealership that supports you by demonstrating that they care about you after the sale !!!!

[Tim Cline]

I bought my last Keystone locally. I was unhappy with their service after the sale that left me paying thousands for repairs that should have been warranty. Therefore I took my business elsewhere and checked the BBB rating of this dealer. It was not an matter of going elsewhere to save thousands but rather they had the unit I wanted, only negative BBB hits were from people who in my opinion were unreasonable in expecting warranty repairs on item they had actually modified themselves and it didn't work out. With todays social media, dealers should know that customer complaints are no longer just available locally. in the midwest they have fewer rv dealers to cover a much larger area. So your options may be limited.

[sourdough]

Festus/Tim

I understand not naming names if the negotiations are still going on and you have hopes of an acceptable resolution. It sounded to me like that corner had been turned. If not, I understand not divulging their name, but, if it all breaks down I would sure like to know where NOT to take my RV for repairs when on the road when it is obvious from Tim's posts that these guys are lacking in that department. Even if they finally are able to resolve this to Tim's satisfaction the last thing I want to do when traveling across the country is to go in for a repair and then have my trailer held hostage for 3 months or more while they try to figure out which end is up.

[Tim Cline]

Oh let there be no doubt that if this is not resolved you'll have the name here, Facebook wherever i can post it. I can tell you though that I have to give the dealer a little love. One of the electrical issues was tied to the A/C. The 12 volt electrical signal to the roof was shorted. Keystone told them not to run a new wire just tie into another 12vdc supply somewhere else in the ceiling. They refused and removed the wall and ceiling, ran a new wire all the way to the inverter and reassembled everything like it should be. A proper repair. Unfortunately I think during the process they probably pinched the wire going to the water pump. But I do believe they will fix it correctly also. No good deed goes unpunished I guess. I checked the wall and ceiling and will say I could not tell it had been removed. Better than new.

[sourdough]

Sounds like they are trying. Maybe they just have someone who is inept in the slide dept. I hate it that you are having such a terrible time with a new trailer - it must have been one of those built on a Monday or Friday as people say:( I wish you luck in getting it completed to your satisfaction so you can get out camping. After all this is done and they are ready to hand it over to you I think that I would insist on going thru the complete PDI list again.

[Tim Cline]

Well fellow RVers after 3.5 months the Sprinter is finally home. A few issues to be resolved but I have decided I will correct them. One of the landing legs slipped about a half inch in its bracket, i'll just lower it onto my kingpin stand and correct it. I will also be insulating the front storage area, sealing the huge gaps around the propane tank compartment that a small child could probably fit through let alone mice. While I was rolling around on the ground I noticed most of the underbelly screws already corroded and the middle sags from no fasteners at all. So I figure I'll drop the whole thing add insulation as I've read here its a joke and replace all the exposed fasteners with stainless. Will all pay off in the long run and not worth bickering with the dealer or keystone over. Hopefully no more electrical or slide issues.

[mark1228]

I agree with notanlines, the dealership should have "just fixed it", but I think we need to understand the dynamics of what is likely to be going on here.

First, the trailer was manufactured by Keystone and transported to the dealership.

Second, the dealership did an "acceptance inspection" upon delivery.

Third, Keystone paid the dealership a significant amount of money to do a PDI on the trailer and to correct any "deficiencies" noted during the inspection. This PDI payment by Keystone can be upwards of $1000, depending on the cost of the RV and the items that are found to need repair/adjustment.

Fourth, the trailer was sold to the customer, then brought back for something that was found wrong.

Fifth, when the dealership contacted Keystone with the problem, requesting authorization to repair it, the question then becomes:

Was the dealership already paid to do the slide adjustment as a part of that initial PDI? If so, then should Keystone pay the dealer to do it a second time? Or should Keystone disapprove additional payment and insist the dealer repair the slide since they have already been paid to repair it as a part of the PDI that was done on Keystone's initial payment???

This forum is filled with comments from owners about dealerships that didn't do an adequate PDI when they bought their RV. We've heard about hot water heaters that leaked, air conditioners that weren't connected to the thermostat, water pumps that wouldn't run, furnaces that had no propane connection, refrigerators that weren't plugged in, and the list is endless.

There is a "fine line" between some dealership service departments which "paperwork the PDI" and some other dealerships that actually do the job that Keystone has already paid them to do. So, without knowing the situation here, it may be a "dealer's battle with Keystone" not because the company is refusing to pay for the repair, but because Keystone is saying, "We've already paid you to do that work and won't pay again." Either way, it's the dealership that needs to "step up" and keep the customer satisfied.

The comments on this forum may be well intentioned, but without knowing all the facts, some posters may be "dogging" Keystone when it's the dealership trying to "double dip" for repair money. We just don't know enough to make a judgment on what is really happening in this (or in many other) situations.

I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect on payment of PDI. Keystone pays a dealer NOTHING to do the PDI. No RV manufacturer does. I have been the GM/owner of a Keystone dealership for 15 years. The PDI and what is included is 100% paid for by the dealer. Keystone did NOT pay for the repair.

[JRTJH]

I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect on payment of PDI. Keystone pays a dealer NOTHING to do the PDI. No RV manufacturer does. I have been the GM/owner of a Keystone dealership for 15 years. The PDI and what is included is 100% paid for by the dealer. Keystone did NOT pay for the repair.



All of the defects identified during the PDI are billed as warranty work by the dealer. The factory pays for all of that work. Dealerships are expected to do a complete inspection/servicing of the RV prior to delivery. Dealerships bill all repair/adjustment line items from "cleaning and adjusting the furnace" to "adjusting the slide" to the manufacturer as a part of that inspection, so yes, the factory pays for the preparation (other than janitorial services) in the form of warranty reimbursements. No dealership is expected to repair factory defects "free gratis". Every dealership that I've been associated with has billed the factory for each and every line item that is found defective on every incoming RV. The "rub" comes when the factory pays for a specific repair during that incoming inspection and then, 6 or 7 months later, when the item fails (or when it is discovered by the customer and had not been properly repaired) and the dealership attempts to bill for the repair a second time. That "double dipping" has caused a lot of dealerships to come under close scrutiny by Keystone and those dealerships are the ones who have problems getting Keystone to approve repairs without significant documentation/pictures, etc. Although on some items the factory requires pictures and documentation (for future warranty reimbursement from vendors), if the repair has been paid by Keystone once, they are not easily swayed to pay for the same repair a second time.

All of those repair services are funded through the factory warranty program, either as a "Keystone responsibility" or as a "component manufacturer responsibility" and the factory warrant department administers the warranty for all components during the first year.


You are correct in that Keystone does not have a separate line item reimbursement for the PDI. It is a "built in reimbursement expectation" in the wholesale/MSRP calculations. I believe we all understand that the customer ultimately pays 100% of all services, otherwise there would be no Keystone or RV dealership.

[mark1228]

All of the defects identified during the PDI are billed as warranty work by the dealer. The factory pays for all of that work. Dealerships are expected to do a complete inspection/servicing of the RV prior to delivery. Dealerships bill all repair/adjustment line items from "cleaning and adjusting the furnace" to "adjusting the slide" to the manufacturer as a part of that inspection, so yes, the factory pays for the preparation (other than janitorial services) in the form of warranty reimbursements. No dealership is expected to repair factory defects "free gratis". Every dealership that I've been associated with has billed the factory for each and every line item that is found defective on every incoming RV. The "rub" comes when the factory pays for a specific repair during that incoming inspection and then, 6 or 7 months later, when the item fails (or when it is discovered by the customer and had not been properly repaired) and the dealership attempts to bill for the repair a second time. That "double dipping" has caused a lot of dealerships to come under close scrutiny by Keystone and those dealerships are the ones who have problems getting Keystone to approve repairs without significant documentation/pictures, etc. Although on some items the factory requires pictures and documentation (for future warranty reimbursement from vendors), if the repair has been paid by Keystone once, they are not easily swayed to pay for the same repair a second time.

All of those repair services are funded through the factory warranty program, either as a "Keystone responsibility" or as a "component manufacturer responsibility" and the factory warrant department administers the warranty for all components during the first year.


You are correct in that Keystone does not have a separate line item reimbursement for the PDI. It is a "built in reimbursement expectation" in the wholesale/MSRP calculations. I believe we all understand that the customer ultimately pays 100% of all services, otherwise there would be no Keystone or RV dealership.

I'm sorry but that is simply not accurate. As an example, Keystone covers adjustments for ONLY day 1-90 of warranty coverage. Day 1 does not start until the day the customer picks it up. I have had this conversation with the very top of warranty management that if a unit shows up with a cabinet door that won't close right I have to fix it on my dime. That will not be reimbursed under warranty until the first 90 days of warranty. Adjustments during PDI are not covered by Keystone.

The PDI is NOT paid for by Keystone as you stated in the first post I replied to. Authorized warranty repair would be paid for, but the PDI is not.

[sourdough]

mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.

[chuckster57]

mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.

This thread getting a bit off track, but since you asked I will give you what insight I have:

UNIT is delivered to the dealership by a transportation company, At that time a delivery acceptance form (DAF) is filled out by dealership employee noting any damage that may have occurred during transport. If the unit has slides they are operated, and the exterior and interior is inspected for any physical damage, shore cords, keys, crank handles and such. Driver signs a copy and is on his/her way.

The unit is then assigned a stock number and placed on the sales line. When sold, a repair order is generated with details of the unit, added equipment and modifications if any to be made. A second repair order is generated for any "warranty found" items that arise during the PDI. It is during this time that any defects in materials and/or workmanship are noted, all appliances are tested, holding tanks are filled to assure no leaks and sensors working, and any defects have pictures taken and repairs submitted to the factory.

I believe your statement that you got a "free" PDI may be a bit misleading. If you didn't see it "itemized" in your sales contract, I assure you it was included in the sales price. Just like buying a new vehicle, where its called "dealer prep".

When you went to pick up your unit, you received a "walk through", not a PDI. I do the "walks" on all the units I PDI, that includes demonstrating how everything works, and if the customer notices a defect it is noted, dealt with if possible and again pictures and repair are submitted to the factory.

This is a quick general overview, and Mark may have more to add, but I hope this gives you an idea of how the "work flow" is.

[mark1228]

This thread getting a bit off track, but since you asked I will give you what insight I have:

UNIT is delivered to the dealership by a transportation company, At that time a delivery acceptance form (DAF) is filled out by dealership employee noting any damage that may have occurred during transport. If the unit has slides they are operated, and the exterior and interior is inspected for any physical damage, shore cords, keys, crank handles and such. Driver signs a copy and is on his/her way.

The unit is then assigned a stock number and placed on the sales line. When sold, a repair order is generated with details of the unit, added equipment and modifications if any to be made. A second repair order is generated for any "warranty found" items that arise during the PDI. It is during this time that any defects in materials and/or workmanship are noted, all appliances are tested, holding tanks are filled to assure no leaks and sensors working, and any defects have pictures taken and repairs submitted to the factory.

I believe your statement that you got a "free" PDI may be a bit misleading. If you didn't see it "itemized" in your sales contract, I assure you it was included in the sales price. Just like buying a new vehicle, where its called "dealer prep".

When you went to pick up your unit, you received a "walk through", not a PDI. I do the "walks" on all the units I PDI, that includes demonstrating how everything works, and if the customer notices a defect it is noted, dealt with if possible and again pictures and repair are submitted to the factory.

This is a quick general overview, and Mark may have more to add, but I hope this gives you an idea of how the "work flow" is.

This is exactly correct. What I was originally trying to point out is that Keystone does not pay for the PDI as had been mentioned earlier. They will pay for warranty repairs however they do not pay for any needed adjustments PRIOR to the sale during the PDI. They will only pay for adjustments during first 90 days of warranty. I don't care for this policy. First of all, if the unit shows up and we have to make adjustments just to show it we should not have to pay for that but we do. 2nd, the warranty is one year and adjustments should be covered for the full one year in my opinion. I am in a Northern state and many of my customers don't even use their new RV in the first 90 days if they buy it in the Fall or Winter. Additionally we will not charge for adjustments during the 1 year warranty as a service to our customers. Hope this helps

[mark1228]

mark - please clarify. What I hear you saying is that you, as a dealer, receive a new trailer delivered to say TX from IN. It rolls in, you put it on the line for show without looking it overthen wait for a customer to sign a contract. At that point you transfer ownership of the unit to the customer for him to find any/all defects that came from the factory or in transit. IF that customer wants to verify that everything is in working order, as it should be from the dealer, he has to pay you to check and see if it is. Is that what you're saying?

I've spoken to, worked with quite a few dealerships and all of them make sure a unit is working properly before it is transferred to a customer - no charge. My current trailer received a complete PDI before I took possession (a very thorough one at no charge) then I emailed them the PDI list from this forum and we spent another 3 hours going over the trailer. Not one word was said to me from the salesman, sales manager, GM/owner about how they didn't get paid for it or it was on their dime. Something is amiss or I'm missing something I think.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. We do a PDI prior to the customer taking delivery. What I was trying to get across is the Keystone does not pay for the PDI and they don't pay any adjustments during the pdi. If is significant defect is found during pdi, they will normally pay that repair unless it's cosmetic. If you find a stain in the carpet for example or a scratch in a cabinet door, nothing is paid there unless it was noted when the unit was received from the factory. The PDI and walk through is not reimbursed by Keystone but is a cost of the sale for the dealer. They didn't say anything to you because they covered that time in the cost of the trailer already but again, the main point I was trying to make was in response to another poster saying that Keystone paid for the PDI and they do not.

[sourdough]

Thanks. That's what I thought. I did not see any line item for a PDI or trailer prep (I"m looking at the sales sheet) but I did assume that the prep was included in the overall price of the unit. That's fair to me although I think every item found prior to delivery to the customer (on a new unit) should be covered by the manufacturer......but that's the nature of the beast.

[Tim Cline]

Got the camper out and readied it for what would be our second attempt at camping since we bought it in October. The furnace lasted an hour. Did all the usual checks blower kicks on runs maybe 30 seconds then off. No attempt to light. Waiting for a call back or email reply from dealer since Saturday. NOBLE RV of Madelia. i finally called back last night after work around 5:15 pm. Nope nobody here from service. Can I bring it up on Saturday early to have someone take a look? Nope we don't have any techs here Saturday. I reminded them this rv already sat in there shop 4 months. Yep, we know. We'll leave a note for someone to call you back. Amazing. Again thats NOBLE RV. Tempted to just leave it go until after camping season and use electric and dump it off in the fall with what I'm sure will be a laundry list of issues. I'd just like to get 1 weekend out of the thing.

[Roberttx]

Bought a 2015 Cougar in Corpus Christi Texas, took delivery Dec. 23. Had some of the same problems. Doors blowing in the wind, but the dealer fix them. Wanted to put TV in bedroom in the spot that was marked Put TV Here. Found that there was nothing but the thin skin. Called Keystone and was directed to go to my dealer and they would take care of it, that was two months ago, have given up and picking the rig up today. Will handle the problem myself. Don't know if the problem is with Keystone or my dealer. Maybe both. Good luck.