Diesel double duty

[Eric91Z]

Ok, so I am new here and to the camping/trailer life. My wife and I have decided we are going to do this and I ended up on this site as so far we have narrowed down to Keystone as the brand we want because that is what the local dealership we want to use sells and the Keystone reputation.

That being said, while shopping for a travel trailer, we also need a tow vehicle. The tow vehicle will pull double duty as my daily driver. And we have decided we want to make sure we have enough vehicle for what we get or might want to upgrade to down the road. The truck will be a purchase and keep for some time so looking at it as more of an investment and don't want the TV to be a limiting factor on what travel trailer we get.

That being said, I am looking for input specifically on a diesel as a daily driver in Iowa - so all four seasons, including winters like last year where we saw -30 and colder temps. And this vehicle will end up being parked outside most of the time. And with my schedule, during the school year, it will spend better part of one week seeing limited driving time mostly within 5-10 miles and other weeks with 15 minute or so, in town commutes each way. And then twice a week with highway time of roughly 75 miles round trip each time. Then on top of that we plan on using the travel trailer for trips both around Iowa, but across the country, too. The whole reason we are buying is to travel and see the US with multiple trips throughout the year.

My primary choice of vehicle would be a 2015+ Chevy 2500HD, crew cab, 4WD, LTZ Z71 and trying to decide if the diesel will work or stick with the 6.0L gasser. I know maintenance will be higher, but if I get new then get 2 years of covered maintenance anyway. And when, or if, I get rid of it would have the better re-sale of the diesel. But is the latest Duramax/Allison combo all weather capable, especially when spending time parked outside in the winter. And, just as importantly, will remote start work on the diesel as factory option?

Not looking for gas vs. diesel debate, but rather actual input from those of you that use your TV as your daily driver and it is a diesel. Any issues or concerns to take in to account if I go the diesel route. Have never owned one before...

Thanks for your time and input.

[EricLynnAllison]

My 3500 diesel started fine this past winter which was the coldest we've had in along time. I have the remote start has worked fine all seasons

[bsmith0404]

My dmax sits outside...wish I had a garage to fit this beast in. The dmax has a block heater, I plug it in on the really cold nights (below 0) starts quick and easy. Yes the remote start works. If you go diesel, make sure you get the grill cover, it helps the tranny get up to temp. The biggest problem I saw with winter driving was the trans runs very cool (if that's really a problem), but the grill cover helps. As for the short commutes, yes that is a concern, the dmax likes to get out and stretch it's legs a bit, but a nice 75 mile drive every now and then should help.

[Eric91Z]

Thanks for the input all. I really appreciate hearing this. Also looked over on the Duramax Forum and people have pretty much said the same thing.

I, too, wish I had a garage big enough to keep it inside as I get so paranoid these days leaving a vehicle outside. Plus, my OCD on keeping vehicles clean will take a hit... ;)


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[Festus2]

Short, daily hops of 5-10 miles and 15 minutes of driving are not a diesel's "best friend". With that kind of driving, the engine doesn't even have a chance to warm up. If you can get it out on the highway 2x a week over 75 miles, your diesel will thank you.

Block heaters work well; and again, your diesel will smile when started after being plugged in for the night.

Other than that, your diesel will perform well over the winter months. Some folks use a fuel additive during the cold weather.

[65aircooled]

Short, daily hops of 5-10 miles and 15 minutes of driving are not a diesel's "best friend". With that kind of driving, the engine doesn't even have a chance to warm up. If you can get it out on the highway 2x a week over 75 miles, your diesel will thank you.

Block heaters work well; and again, your diesel will smile when started after being plugged in for the night.

Other than that, your diesel will perform well over the winter months. Some folks use a fuel additive during the cold weather.

^^^ This! A friend of mine is having all kinds of problems with his DEF and DPF, 2013 D-Max. Truck sits most of the time. Diesels like/need to be driven, they don't like to sit for sure. He was telling me the other day how he has been 3 times to the dealer in the las 8 months, same problem. Other than that, any of the big 3 diesels with a cold weather package will start w/o a problem in that kind of temperature. Nothing pulls like a diesel, thats for sure.

[therink]

I am currently looking to upgrade my current truck to a 2015 3500HD and Inn the same boat (gas versus diesel). My 6.0 gasser serves me well Towing the 12k fiver, but would wouldn't recommend gas if planning on Towing anything over 10k full time or cross country.
The 6.0 gas drive train is bullet proof. I will say that. Also, if you do go with gas, 4:10 axle is a must have for any trailer over 9500 gvwr. (per gm)

[Eric91Z]

Given budget we are looking at, I am guessing we will be under 10k in trailer weight. Probably closer to 9000 or so. Given that, sitting at times, and shorter travel times during school year for daughter, the gasser with 4.10 gears might be the better option, at least for now. And knowing long term goal is Class A instead of bigger TT or Fiver, maybe the 6.0L would be better choice for me... Oh, so confused... Which is nothing new for me!


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[chuckster57]

I have wrenched "on the side" for 40+ yrs now and I have found that gasoline engines are much more forgiving than diesels when used for short trips and numerous start/stop cycles.

[dm1401]

My ram is a double duty truck also, DD 5 days a week, and a puller on the weekends till the snow flies. In colder weather plug your truck in (I use a timer set for 4 hrs), drive away easy, till you get some heat in the motor. In my opinion trucks with emission equipment limit your idle time, and maybe consider throwing a battery charger on the batteries 1 or 2x a month to bring up the charge if you can't get out for a longer drive, and enjoy the awesome pulling power.

[Desert185]

We have a Cummins without DEF, etc. Even though parked inside at night, I connect a HF timer to the block heater timed for four hours prior to an anticipated cold start. I let it idle with the exhaust brake on for a quicker warmup.

I also bought used. There are some good deals to be had out there, and maybe the used approach might fit better with your future plans if you have to sell at a later date.

I would definitely buy diesel. Given your stated pulling requirement, a 2500 should be fine, but for future, unseen flexibility perhaps a 3500 would be best.

A truck isn't an investment. You'll lose money every time (unless you bought an El Camino in 1970 and still have it), but you can minimize the loss if purchased wisely.

[bsmith0404]

I use both my 2500 and my 3500 for daily driving, short distance to work (4 miles). The longer trips twice per week will build the heat up and allow the DEF to regen. I personally do not and would not use an additive in the newer diesels. Don't know how much truth/fact there is in the rumors, but I've heard the additives can cause problems with NoX sensors. The NoX sensor seems to be the biggest problem with the Dmax emission system. I have replaced one in each of my trucks. Both of them at around 50k miles. The good part, they're under the diesel 100,000 warranty. You do not want to let the Dmax sit and idle for a long time, the new emissions are not designed for that. I was really surprised how easy mine started during the sub zero temps and how quickly it warmed up last winter. The engine turned over fast and easy, the block heater works great. You will hear some advise to avoid the DEF system, but my experience is that it's no big deal, just add a couple gallons about every 4-5k miles. The NoX sensor is part of that system, so I guess that could be a drawback.

As for the 6.0 and 4:10 set up, I had that in a previous truck as well. A lot of power for a gasser and pulled my 8,500 lb 5er well, until I got into the mountains around CO and WY. I was really working it hard in the mountains and the tranny was warming up pretty good. A couple passes had me down to 25-30 mph as I tried to limit the RPMs. I enjoy traveling in that part of the country , that really pushed me towards the diesel. Also, if you read my post on the thread by therink, you will see that the dmax is actually a cheaper per mile vehicle to operate. Personally, it doesn't matter to me which truck you buy, just giving you my two cents from my experiences when faced with the same decision.

[Desert185]

"Cheaper per mile." I have to agree. My almost 300,000 miles with Cummins have been almost trouble free. Not much, if anything, to a "tune up". I do almost all of my own maintenance. If the OP will do the same, I suggest he look under the hood of all three before buying. It will be obvious which brand will be easier to maintain.

[Eric91Z]

Again, thank you all for the input. We definitely plan to spend time in Colorado, especially in the mountains. One of our favorite places, so will want the power to pull up hill and engine braking for downhills would definitely be nice!

[bsmith0404]

Again, thank you all for the input. We definitely plan to spend time in Colorado, especially in the mountains. One of our favorite places, so will want the power to pull up hill and engine braking for downhills would definitely be nice!

Oh yeah, how'd I forget about that? The 2011 an newer Dmax all have the engine brake, it is AMAZING for towing in the mountains. Tap the brake to "tell" the computer the speed you want to go and the exhaust brake will take over. In many cases you don't need to touch the brake again. There are some times on longer/steeper grades when it'll drop down a gear to bring the rpm's up. This gives it more exhaust to brake with. I don't like it running the higher rpm's so I'll use the brake in that situation to control the speed and keep the tranny in the higher gear. Last year I was following my dad through the hills in Superior, WI. He has an 07 Dmax so no exhaust brake. He was on the brakes constantly, I never touched mine.

[bsmith0404]

"Cheaper per mile." I have to agree. My almost 300,000 miles with Cummins have been almost trouble free. Not much, if anything, to a "tune up". I do almost all of my own maintenance. If the OP will do the same, I suggest he look under the hood of all three before buying. It will be obvious which brand will be easier to maintain.

The cummins is nice, only problem is the wrapper :) The Allison is tough to beat, but it sounds like Dodge may have finally found a comparable counterpart with the Aisin.

I still haven't figured out why Dodge can't seem to find a good seat for a truck that is intended to run a lot of miles.

[65aircooled]

I still haven't figured out why Dodge can't seem to find a good seat for a truck that is intended to run a lot of miles.

Out of the 4 gen Dodge Ram/Cummins, how many of them have you owned?

[Desert185]

The cummins is nice, only problem is the wrapper :) The Allison is tough to beat, but it sounds like Dodge may have finally found a comparable counterpart with the Aisin.

I still haven't figured out why Dodge can't seem to find a good seat for a truck that is intended to run a lot of miles.

Perhaps, but I enjoy the character and soul of the Dodge Cummins with the NV5600 6-speed stick. The tinny Dodge "wrappers" went away at the 1994 model change. I learned how to drive in a '52 Ford pickup when I was ten, so I guess I'm more of a pickup guy than a refined, Caddy guy, and more of a BMW GS guy than a Honda Goldwing guy. :)

To each his own, eh?

[Ken / Claudia]

Regarding the engine heater. My 2 cents and realize my truck is about as outdated as a model A compared to a new truck. At home the temps get 20s lowest and I plug in the truck if I am going to drive it early in the morning. It is nice to have a quick start but, even better with a warm cab almost right away and windshield not iced up. Elk hunting temps to 0 degrees to highs 20s. We all plug in to the gennys in the mornings for up to an hour before starting them. Trucks are 1996, mine, 2003 and 04 fords.

[vampress_me]

I think I have maybe a different view than others. If you live in town and won't be driving the diesel more than 5-10 miles, in-town commuting most of the time, I wouldn't recommend a diesel. It's hard on them to not get out and be driven for longer distances/times. But I grew up a diesel mechanics daughter, so maybe that just rubbed off on me. :)

Don't get me wrong, I love my diesels, both the newer F-350 we have, and our old Dodge Cummins. But we have always lived in the country here in MN and in MT, so I've not worried too much about short distance driving. As far as starting in winter, ours have always started, but I do carry an extension cord when we head west in winter and stay at hotels with plug-ins in the parking lot if it's supposed to be real cold overnight. I've never had a problem starting either one at -35 when plugged in and anti-gelling dumped in the tank (some places I can only get #2 diesel, not mixed).

[Eric91Z]

Vampress_me, thanks for that input. That is really what I am starting to think. Daily driver, live in town, some highway time unloaded now and then, with one or two camping trips, per month, during camping season. And from what we are looking at, towing around 9000 GVWR on trailer, plus payload in truck. 6.0L gasser with 4.10 gears will probably be fine in a 2500HD 4x4 Crew, for us anyway.


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[bsmith0404]

Out of the 4 gen Dodge Ram/Cummins, how many of them have you owned?

None! I do have a friend who has owned 3, 94, 02, 09. I've ridden in each of them and have not been impressed with the seats. In fact, he puts a lot of miles on them, 70k per year. Yes 500k when he buys a new one. He has changed the seats in the last two. He always complains and wishes "Dodge would put a seat like GM in their trucks", I agree with his assessment.

All of the big 3 are good, each in their own way. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's personal preference as to which strengths and weaknesses are more important. I looked at all of them, and went with the Silverado for my own personal preferences. I'm not trying to start a brand war, just giving my 2c based on experience (mine and friends).

[Ram189]

If you are going to just be making the short trips as a daily driver I think the gas is the way for you to go.

Those kind of trips kill a diesel. Water in the system is what does it. The engine does not build up enough heat to disapate the condensation that builds and settles in the oil, fuel lines, ect.

[gkainz]

None! I do have a friend who has owned 3, 94, 02, 09. I've ridden in each of them and have not been impressed with the seats. In fact, he puts a lot of miles on them, 70k per year. Yes 500k when he buys a new one. He has changed the seats in the last two. He always complains and wishes "Dodge would put a seat like GM in their trucks", I agree with his assessment.

All of the big 3 are good, each in their own way. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's personal preference as to which strengths and weaknesses are more important. I looked at all of them, and went with the Silverado for my own personal preferences. I'm not trying to start a brand war, just giving my 2c based on experience (mine and friends).

Hi Brent - could you find out the details of your friend's seat replacement? I agree with him - my '97 seats are uncomfortable in both my and my wife's opinion. I've had the seats rebuilt and while now both sides are solid and not broke down, we both get tired legs and my wife gets leg cramps where the seat edge hits the back of her legs.

In talking with the guy who rebuilt our seats, his opinion is the newer trucks are even more "firm" (and not in a comfortable way) is how he put it. Another very knowledgeable Dodge guy claims that the leather seats in any model year are more supportive and comfortable than the cloth seats.

Greg

[bsmith0404]

Greg,

He added the knoedler seats, well actually seat. If I remember correctly he has the Excaliber. They are about $600-700 each so he only put in the drivers seat. You can do a google on them, expensive, but amazingly comfortable.

[gkainz]

Thanks! I'll check them out.

[65aircooled]

None! I do have a friend who has owned 3, 94, 02, 09. I've ridden in each of them and have not been impressed with the seats. In fact, he puts a lot of miles on them, 70k per year. Yes 500k when he buys a new one. He has changed the seats in the last two. He always complains and wishes "Dodge would put a seat like GM in their trucks", I agree with his assessment.

All of the big 3 are good, each in their own way. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It's personal preference as to which strengths and weaknesses are more important. I looked at all of them, and went with the Silverado for my own personal preferences. I'm not trying to start a brand war, just giving my 2c based on experience (mine and friends).

I figured that! It sounded to me like your criticism went beyond the seat, I am not a brand specific type of guy, nor do I own stock in any of them. I buy what works for me at any given point. My last Ram CTD lasted me 7 years, and I missed that truck every day of my life, though the transmission pretty much sucked. I've had at least one of each of the BIG 3, as you say they all have their flaws. Bought my last truck two months ago, traded in a Tundra with very comfortable seats, so far no complains on the new seats, but they are top of the line so maybe that has something to do with it? I test-drove the '15 Silverado, very fast truck, but I wanted low end pulling power so I went with the Ram. I don't put that many miles in my trucks, but many hrs in a car in a single trip would be enough to hate or love a seat I guess.

[rnkburg]

Well of its that cold and the commute is that short gas or diesel I think you need heated seats to help out but if it was me I would still go diesel


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[bsmith0404]

I figured that! It sounded to me like your criticism went beyond the seat, I am not a brand specific type of guy, nor do I own stock in any of them. I buy what works for me at any given point. My last Ram CTD lasted me 7 years, and I missed that truck every day of my life, though the transmission pretty much sucked. I've had at least one of each of the BIG 3, as you say they all have their flaws. Bought my last truck two months ago, traded in a Tundra with very comfortable seats, so far no complains on the new seats, but they are top of the line so maybe that has something to do with it? I test-drove the '15 Silverado, very fast truck, but I wanted low end pulling power so I went with the Ram. I don't put that many miles in my trucks, but many hrs in a car in a single trip would be enough to hate or love a seat I guess.

Actually my criticism with Dodge does go beyond the seat, that is just one of the major complaints I have with them. I don't like shifting gears anymore (except in my vette) and their history of automatic transmissions is questionable to put it nicely. The front ends are also a weak link. They've had a problem from everything from the Durango to the HD trucks. I've changed too many ball joints on them over the years to count. Couldn't tell you if they've improved or not with the newer ones, I don't turn wrenches on others peoples vehicles anymore. I do like the Cummins though and if the new Aisin lives up to the hype, it may be worth another look......well I've actually given them a look, but the new package has pushed the price up on par/even higher than the Dmax, so I doubt I'll be jumping the GM ship anytime soon. I will say Dodge has put some nice packages together for the new trucks. Almost too many options! When I was building one on the website, I just kept clicking the add button and watching the price tag rise.

[GMcKenzie]

I love my old diesel, but park it in the winter. My work commute is about 5 mins each way and I just don't want to do that to my truck.

Last winter I bought a POS (94 Taurus) for $400 and sold it to the wreckers in the spring for $220. Put about 1,800 KMS on it over 5 month. It seemed to be the solution for me so this fall I bought a 94 Blazer and will probably keep it as it seems to run fine. Cost $1,000.

To me that is worth it to not beat the crap out of the diesel. I'll put it on the road in May when I start towing again and shove the Blazer under cover for next winter. Plus it means I can fix a few things on the truck.

[msp2jxr]

I driver a Ford diesel 6.4 and use it as a daily driver. I live 4 mile from work and drive the diesel back forth to work and now have 52,000. I know this is not the best for my truck but I am not going to buy another car for the short time I will be doing this. I have had no problems with the truck and it has always started in the Winter and I live in MN. I don't expect the duramax to be any different.

[kimbashaw]

I have a 2013 Chevrolet diesel DRW. It is my retirement truck (for seeing the country and heading south in the winter when I retire in 4 years) and I also park it in the garage once the snow hits and they start salting the roads. During the summer I drive several long trips. Any advice when storing for the winter? I store it with a full tank of fuel and once every couple weeks will start it, let it get up to temperature, run it back an forth in the driveway to use the brakes, and then put it away. I do keep it plugged in when it gets below 10 degrees or so.

[Drew Waller]

We live close to Lake Erie in Cleveland Ohio. It's cold here in the winter. I've never had a problem starting. My Duramax will sit for weeks at a time and start right up? Now I've got a new 2015 with DEF so we'll see if that makes a difference this winter! If only towing a trailer I would go with the 1 ton and single wheels on the back. If 5th wheel go dually. But desiel either way and stay 1 ton.

[Barbell]

We pull a Montana with a 13 year old 3/4 T Dodge w/ Cummins HO and six speed with 165,000 miles. Our first camper was a big Lance so the truck was ordered as camper special and has air bags and exhaust brake. Since added a FASS fuel system. Otherwise stock. The Montana was new last year and we have pulled it around 25,000 miles since. We have never been anywhere that gave me any concern about this truck. Fuel mileage is good; 20+ empty and 11-13 pulling. Top speed when pulling is 65. Empty it is the speed limit or a little more. I keep good tires on it and the trailer and keep them inflated and torqued. It doesn't get started unless it is going at least 30 miles. It may sit for two months or more when we are not traveling. On the road, we usually travel 300 miles per day or less and stay more than one night most places. Right now, we are taking about a month to go from AZ to SC. The truck is serviced regularly and has never used more than a quart of oil in 5000 miles. If/when it gets replaced, it will be another Cummins; don't care if its a Dodge. The only thing I would consider changing is I might go to a 1 ton SRW. All in all, so far at least, this truck trailer combination is quite satisfactory. Have never pulled with a smaller truck but with 50-60 lbs of air in the air bags and 80 in rear 65 in front, this truck rides very well on most highways. There are exceptions but I-40/I-44, I-70, I-64, I-75 so far on this trip have been fine most of the time.

[Desert185]

Similar experience with my Ram. Lot of bang for the buck.

I, too, have a FASS lift pump...also FAST coolers for the 6-speed and Mag-Hytek diff covers (the rear is functional and the front one is for looks ;-) ). I pulled the stock pipe with muffler and resonator in order to replace with a Magnaflow 4" system with stainless, straight through muffler. It wasn't noisier and dropped the EGT a smidge and no more "whooshie" sounding back pressure.

I'm thinking a Snow water/meth injection system is next. If their advertising is correct, the EGT will drop 150-300dF giving me more pedal when needed and desired. Mileage 20-21 and 10-14 when towing at 60 MPH. GREAT truck.

I live 7 miles from the post office (shortest trip). Everything else is 30 min to an hour away. I can't live without a long bed pickup, and this 2001 vintage Dodge 24 valve Cummins without the DEF, EGR and new etc. stuff is just the ticket for us. I had a hard time leaving the '94 12 valve (comparatively bulletproof) behind, but the quad cab and 6-speed stick was convincing. Cure the lift pump issue with FASS and press on.

Approaching 300,000 miles with Cummins...

[Trent McCain]

I'm going to say no. I bought a diesel truck to do a job...it is a luxury for us. We pull our trailers and the rest of the time it's in the building. I get it out when the weathers nice to keep batteries charged, parts lubricated etc, we only put about 5K mi a year on it. I drive a cherry 1995 F150 4x4 gasser daily. I'll put miles on it and keep them off the diesel. All our vehicles and toys are paid for, so they don't owe me anything. I see no need to wear out an expensive diesel truck as a "driver" unless you're full timing and that's your only vehicle. I run own a small trucking company so I understand running in cold weather. I'll gladly pay the extra money for straight no. 1 diesel to avoid gelling in the cold. I don't want the headache or expense of buying it for a "daily driver" diesel pickup. Also, in our small town you can be anywhere in 5 min. With the emissions equipment on newer trucks, this causes problems as well. Just today I had to drive the F350 as the drivers had my F150. I warmed it up, backed it out of the garage, and drove across town this morning. Tonight when I got in, I fired the truck and let it warm up a little before coming back to the house. I get the message "drive to clean exhaust filter." So a quick 24 mi trip on the interstate, and the filter is clean again. These are just 2 reasons why I don't see the logic in running one daily. If it were me, I'd buy a nice diesel truck for pulling and keep a cheap "beater" for a daily driver.

[LittleJoe]

What Trent says.......

It takes a ten mile drive in warm weather to get up to operating temp.

For the duty cycle the OP is speaking of , a gasser would do a better job.

[Javi]

What Trent says.......

It takes a ten mile drive in warm weather to get up to operating temp.

For the duty cycle the OP is speaking of , a gasser would do a better job.

Funny, around here even at 20`F my thermostat opens after 3-4 miles and if it took any longer I'd have a weather cover on my grill... I drive my diesel every day, winter, spring, summer, and fall... I've tried gas pickups and until I stop pulling trailers I will never own another gas pickup. To me they are a complete waste of my time and money.

[bsmith0404]

Funny, around here even at 20`F my thermostat opens after 3-4 miles and if it took any longer I'd have a weather cover on my grill... I drive my diesel every day, winter, spring, summer, and fall... I've tried gas pickups and until I stop pulling trailers I will never own another gas pickup. To me they are a complete waste of my time and money.

x2. I've owned gassers before my diesel, I won't go back. I've used grill covers to help it warm up a bit in real cold temps. I've never had a problem with cold temps or short drives. I use my truck for whatever I need it for, I don't give it a second thought.

[Desert185]

Brent and Javi:

I thought I was alone concerning the seasonal operation of diesel pickups. Nice to know others agree. I do like my El Camino, though. "bouncey:

[Trent McCain]

For pulling I wouldn't trade our diesel, I thought about going back to a gasser, but my dealer says I'll hate it, and he's probably right. But like I said I bought this truck as a luxury because I wanted it. I'm afraid if I went back to gas, I'd be disappointed the first time I hook the trailer eventhough we are weekend camper as best. Something to remember...when I was a young kid back in the late 80's early 90's you couldn't hardly give a diesel away...even when fuel was cheaper. All the guys that were serious about pulling had 460 Fords and 454 Chevrolets with 4:10's to 4.56 gears. That's what our family pulled with (Ford 460) until the first diesel in '02. Everyone was tickled they could pass everything but a gas station....but nobody cared. We all got there and made it home. I still contend a diesel is a luxury....and I don't want to go with out it. But I'll still wear out a "beater" over an expensive diesel truck anytime. If you're going to use it as a drive, I recommend finding a pre-emission truck. I know when I run my emissions motor Kenworths on short hauls, we usually have it in the shop shortly thereafter for emissions equipment issues ( they don't get worked hard enough to regenerate on their own) I guess I use the same logic with my F350. And I'm sorry, I don't enjoy wasting extra time or fuel to drive around to clean the DPF filter because I drove it on a short trip. This is why I will maintain my position. I'm not criticizing anyone who doesn't agree....I'm not spending your money, so can't comment what you do with it.

Trent

[Javi]

Brent and Javi:

I thought I was alone concerning the seasonal operation of diesel pickups. Nice to know others agree. I do like my El Camino, though. "bouncey:

Ha-ha.. soccer moms drive diesels duallys' as grocery getters down here... :D

[Desert185]

Trent:

My diesel doesn't have DEF or DPF...thankfully.

[Desert185]

Ha-ha.. soccer moms drive diesels duallys' as grocery getters down here... :D

I love the Texas mentality.

[Trent McCain]

Trent:

My diesel doesn't have DEF or DPF...thankfully.

You're a much happier camper for that. I've had all the parts to delete our 6.4 for some time but was waiting for the warranty to end. It ended last July and I haven't gotten around to installing the deletes yet. We've only got 55K on the truck so it ran out on time. every time I have to drive "extra" miles to clean the DPF I think I should get the deletes done, but then I park it until the next time I need it...hopefully before camping season in the spring I'll get around to it. Not sure on the light duty pickups, but on my Cummins equipped KW's the DPF/DOC and their related components are very expensive...and I've replaced emissions equipment on both trucks already (I ordered them new) thankfully warranty has covered most of it. Another reason to delete the 6.4 but keep the parts just incase I need to return it to stock.

Trent

[bsmith0404]

Brent and Javi:

I thought I was alone concerning the seasonal operation of diesel pickups. Nice to know others agree. I do like my El Camino, though. "bouncey:

My diesel is for driving/towing/getting groceries/taking family trips/whatever I need it for. The only seasonal vehicle I have is my vette, and that's not a temp thing, it's road conditions.

Thankfully the Dmax isn't designed the same as the Ford. When it goes into regen you can shut it down and it just picks back up where it left off the next time you drive. In over 100k miles driven in new LMLs, I've never seen a message telling me to drive to clean the filter. I just notice a drop in fuel mileage when it goes into regen. The only issue I have ever had with the system is the #2 NoX sensor went bad, but replaced under warranty.

[Javi]

My diesel is for driving/towing/getting groceries/taking family trips/whatever I need it for. The only seasonal vehicle I have is my vette, and that's not a temp thing, it's road conditions.

Thankfully the Dmax isn't designed the same as the Ford. When it goes into regen you can shut it down and it just picks back up where it left off the next time you drive. In over 100k miles driven in new LMLs, I've never seen a message telling me to drive to clean the filter. I just notice a drop in fuel mileage when it goes into regen. The only issue I have ever had with the system is the #2 NoX sensor went bad, but replaced under warranty.

Y'all got a misconception about the Ford (at least the 6.7) when you get the drive to clean notice you do not have to keep driving. It will stop the process when you stop or the RPM falls below 1000 for more than a few seconds and it will pick back up when the motor reaches operating temps again if it is needed. The DPF and DEF systems ain't that big of a deal, just drive the darn things and the only real difference in operations is that the new motors shouldn't be idled for long periods.

[Eric91Z]

Thanks for all the input and opinions. It is appreciated. We are working on making changes that should help in the long run, including letting my keep my Impala for commuting and adding the truck as a tow vehicle that will have its own garage space for storage when not in use.

Given that and not wanting to worry about what we are towing behind us, really leaning towards a diesel. Now, SRW or DRW... ;)

[bsmith0404]

Y'all got a misconception about the Ford (at least the 6.7) when you get the drive to clean notice you do not have to keep driving. It will stop the process when you stop or the RPM falls below 1000 for more than a few seconds and it will pick back up when the motor reaches operating temps again if it is needed. The DPF and DEF systems ain't that big of a deal, just drive the darn things and the only real difference in operations is that the new motors shouldn't be idled for long periods.

So basically the same as the GM, we just don't get a message telling us when it's happening....if you monitor EGTs and fuel mileage, you know.

Agree 100% on the new systems, I think they're getting bad rap from a lot of people who don't own/drive them. I remember when I was looking at a new 2010, the dealer warned me to "buy now, the 2011s are going to have this other system and going to be a nightmare". The only thing he was right about was that the 2011s having the system.

[pawpaw]

In the "cow pasture" subdivision I live in I'm the only one with a gas powered pickup. Ford and Chevy diesels make up the rest. When they're not hauling camping trailers they haul cattle and hay trailers. Not too many soccer moms back here! :D

[Desert185]

So basically the same as the GM, we just don't get a message telling us when it's happening....if you monitor EGTs and fuel mileage, you know.

Agree 100% on the new systems, I think they're getting bad rap from a lot of people who don't own/drive them. I remember when I was looking at a new 2010, the dealer warned me to "buy now, the 2011s are going to have this other system and going to be a nightmare". The only thing he was right about was that the 2011s having the system.

There have been issues that may be nightmares to some. With complication comes inconvenience and the expense of resolution (probably by dealer) and initial purchase (DPF and DEF equipment are not free with the truck), plus the ongoing expense of purchasing DEF at a rate of 1-3% of the fuel mileage. I just don't want to deal with it and am grateful I have the option to personally control the "trend" in my favor.

This is just one example of what one can find when Googling DPF and/or DEF:

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/advice/163_1406_truck_trend_garage_reader_concern_gm_dura max_diesel_trucks/#__federated=1

[danisr1]

I have the exact truck the OP was looking at (2015 HD2500 LTZ Z71 6.6) and I love the thing.

The DEF is no big deal. I wish they had an actual gauge to tell you the level but I have 12k on my truck and have only filled it once.

I live in FL so the cold weather isn't an issue.

[Javi]

Just as a note.. Currently I'm getting just north of 2200 miles per gallon of DEF on average. At a cost of $2.79 per gallon that is an expense of roughly .001269036 of a cent per mile... I'm not thinking I'll go broke just because I use DEF... :D

I have heard stories of folks getting 1000 MPG of DEF when hauling a big TH on a daily basis, but I've not seen that with my usage.

[bsmith0404]

There have been issues that may be nightmares to some. With complication comes inconvenience and the expense of resolution (probably by dealer) and initial purchase (DPF and DEF equipment are not free with the truck), plus the ongoing expense of purchasing DEF at a rate of 1-3% of the fuel mileage. I just don't want to deal with it and am grateful I have the option to personally control the "trend" in my favor.

This is just one example of what one can find when Googling DPF and/or DEF:

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/advice/163_1406_truck_trend_garage_reader_concern_gm_dura max_diesel_trucks/#__federated=1

Actually all of those problems in that write up/forum were probably the NoX sensor. It took them a while to figure it all out. They used to change DEF tanks and everything else based on a progressive diagnostic plan, now they know it's mainly the NoX and they go straight to them. As with any new system they went through growing pains, but I don't see it as a reason to avoid them.

[LittleJoe]

The trucks using the emission systems that require DEF will get higher mpg than trucks using emission systems that do not eg: 07.5-12 Rams, 08-10 GM and Not really sure on Fords......:D

The increase in mileage will much more than pay for DEF needed and the lower percentage of EGR will help your engine last longer.

You can delete others to help out here but it is illegal to do and illegal to sell. I know they run better and get better mileage, but not worth the risk in my area.

;)

[notanlines]

Javi is on the money. About 1 to 1.5 cents per mile is what we figure. With all the other troubles this activity of RVing brings, why complicate things by screwing with the factory settings on your truck?

[jsmith948]

Javi is on the money. About 1 to 1.5 cents per mile is what we figure. With all the other troubles this activity of RVing brings, why complicate things by screwing with the factory settings on your truck?

Have to agree with the above. DEF doesn't cost enough to worry about and after 35,000 miles there is NO soot on the inside of the tailpipe.
BTW - the best reason to not alter, modify, remove, or delete the smog equipment on my Ford is because I don't like being able to see the air that I breathe. JMHO

[Trent McCain]

The increase of 1-2 mpg with DEF is what we see on our trucks. We have the '09 Navistar diesel and my folks have a '11 with the Ford diesel that they ordered new. Both trucks are F350 4x4's with 3:55's, the folks will average 1-2 mpg better than I do loaded or empty. The DEF isn't a big deal on these trucks. I wish I had bought a used '11+ instead of the '09. That said we really like the what we have, and it tows beautiful...for the limited amount I use it, I can't justify trading one that's paid for just to gain a little fuel mileage. The '11 is a more refined package and if I had one I wouldn't consider 'deleting" it as it runs well without as many regens. When I ordered my Kenworths new, I purposely ordered before 2011 as I didn't want the added expense of DEF and the uncertainty that would come with it. It looks like it's better system.

Trent

[Javi]

I've been driving diesel pickups since '83 and hands down the new ones beat anything from previous years for towing and fuel mileage. That said... fuel mileage, while not at the bottom of the list... is not my primary reason for driving a diesel or for driving a "new" diesel.

When I started looking for a new truck to replace the '11 F-150 I mistakenly thought would be a good compromise between a "grandkids" hauler and a TV I looked at many things.

[Desert185]

Well, mine came without DPF, DEF, EGR (as far as I know) or a cat. Guess I'll just have to live with an uncomplicated 20-21 MPG (hand computed, because the computer is inaccurate) on a truck I can work on. I may be set in my ways, but I earned it by being flexible my entire working life. :cool:

Retired 23 days, and loving it.

[Ram189]

The one thing I would recommend is an engine block heater. Most of them come from the factory with the option now.

I keep mine plugged in during the winter and have never had a problem with getting heat within 5 minutes of running it. Starting is not much of a problem anymore on the newer trucks with the new glow plug systems.

[Desert185]

Did Dodge go to glowplugs at some point, or do they still have an intake heater? Mine doesn't have glowplugs.

[LittleJoe]

The 5.9 and now 6.7 still have intake heaters. They work well and almost never give a problem (read lowest cost to owner over the long haul)over other systems IMO.

[Wally15]

I've been following this thread for a month now. Some very interesting and informative feedback. Five years ago I was going through a very similar vehicle situation and decision-making process as the OP; frequent short "daily commutes" and several long (up to 3K miles) trips per year requiring more truck than my '04 Silverado 5.3 gasser could comfortably handle. At the time, it wasn't an RV towing issue, it was an 8K lb boat and trailer that was straining the gasser. I had never owned a diesel, and in '09 most of the new diesels were still having problems with the pollution control mandates. Plus new diesels were very expensive, and retirement was just around the corner for me. Didn't want a lot of new debt.
I had no particular brand loyalty, my Silverado I purchased new because it was the most comfortable to drive, and I liked the ride and interior amenities. Biggest thing I towed back then was a bass boat. I test drove all the Big 3 diesels and liked them all, except for the price tags and trade-in. Each had pros and cons over the other two, I'm in basic agreement with all the previous comments. One thing I didn't like was the lack of "maintenance history" on the upsized engine displacements. I would have probably bought the Ford if I went the new vehicle route.
I ran a couple of spreadsheets on a new "double duty" truck vs buying a used pre-07 (EPA) diesel and also a 2nd car for daily commutes. Out to 6 years of ownership, it made more economic sense for me to buy 2 used vehicles than one new truck. I ended up purchasing an '06 2500 Ram Laramie Cummins and an '02 Toyota Avalon, both with less than 100K and both with excellent service histories. And sold my Silverado privately for almost as much as my trade in allowance would have been. I decided on the Dodge because of the Cummins. IMO Dodge is the least "comfortable" of the Big 3 interiors, but the reliability and low end power of the Cummins is a nice offset. I have put slightly over 60K on each vehicle over 5 years and (other than scheduled maintenance) have only replaced an O2 sensor on the Avalon, and replaced the xmn solenoids on the Dodge 48RE tranny. And I purchased both vehicles for almost $20K less than I would have spent on one new diesel.
Per my spreadsheet, I'm saving $1,300 per year owning 2 used vehicles as opposed to one NEW double duty diesel. New vehicle depreciation is the sole reason for the savings.
Since the OP will probably upgrade to a Class A as some point in the future, I think looking at 2 used vehicles has merit and should be factored into his decision. And as the price difference between diesel and gas continues to spread, my savings actually increase.

And last year when we decided to become RV'ers, we based our purchase on what the Ram could comfortably pull, so we ended up with a 9K max weight Laredo 308 RE TT, and use the covered and lockable truck bed for much needed additional storage. Plenty of room for two "empty nesters".
I have decided to keep the '06 Dodge diesel for the foreseeable future. By spreading out my annual mileage across 2 vehicles, it might last me another 10 years or so. Or until I'm too old to haul the TT or boat safely. In any case, I probably won't ever buy a new vehicle again. Unless I win the lottery.
Notice I didn't comment on the cold weather operation. Not generally an issue for me down here in S. GA. However, last week it was in the low 20's, which is unheard of before January, much less Thanksgiving. No wonder they renamed Global Warming to Climate Change.

[Javi]

If you really take a look at what you need in a truck vs what you want it, is surprising what you can get..

I bought my '12 off the lot for $36K out the door... brand spanking new..

I've pretty much always had 4X4 but when I looked at how much I really needed it vs how much I used it. I found that in the past ten years I actually needed it (as in stuck if I didn't have it) once in ten years and that one time I could easily have used my ATV to get where I needed to be..

So when I bought this time I didn't go 4X4.. I did get E-lock in the rear end and I've been glad of that a couple of times.

I didn't need the truck to talk to me, I didn't need it to answer my phone or to warm my butt and I could care less about leather or chrome.. So I saved right at $30K on my truck and another $600 or so a year on insurance.. I did get power windows, door locks, tilt and power mirrors..

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

I only have the one motor vehicle, tows the snail-shell,
and gets me around for shopping and such. Got it used,
paid it off, then needed to do some preventative maintenance,
it booked out at $2K under what I paid for it 4 years ago...
Yes, it's a 4X4, but without the snail-shell, I do get up into
areas that surround the Gila Wilderness to do some short hikes
and hunt for trouts. Most of the roads around here are gravel
and some are glorified dirt. Extremely happy with mine.

hankaye

[bsmith0404]

When I bought my 2500 Duramax I was looking used because of the sticker shock of the new ones. I was looking to stay under 50k miles on a used one. Then I ran into sticker shock on a used one. Although the new truck listed at $51k, through multiple incentives I was able to get it out the door at $41k, low mileage used ones were all in the $35k range. I drove the 2500 for 3 years, put 50k miles on it and traded it in on my 3500 for $40k. BTW, I got the 3500 used (2011 with 50k miles, same as my 2500) for $5k below book value. It took me over a month to make the deal, luckily there isn't a big market for duallies in bigger cities. If I was still in WY or NM the truck would have been gone in a couple days and I would have had to pay a lot more. My point, you can find deals on used ones (sometimes) and you can make deals on new ones as well. The thing about the diesel, none of them are cheap, new or used, they hold their value like a Harley, but if you shop around long enough you can find one that fits your needs and price range.

[gtsum2]

It's really pretty simple...diesels cost more upfront and will likely have slightly higher maintenance costs...they will also pull much better and get better mpg empty and towing and have higher resale. If u want a diesel, get one.

I chuckle when I see people comparing break even points for the cost of a diesel....after all, rv'ing is a luxury, right? I mean do u really need a 10-12k lbs fifth or trailer? No...you WANT one....and paid more for it over a popup or tents and sleeping bags...you are likely more comfortable and have more amenities in your rig than the smaller units or a tent, right? Same goes for a diesel...more amenities (hp and torque) and much better performance and it costs more. If u want to spend he money do so, if not don't! I use my 2014 ram 3500 srw as my dd and love it. I don't care that is cost 8k more than a gasser....after having both, I highly doubt I will ever buy a gas truck again. ymmv

[larry337]

It's really pretty simple...diesels cost more upfront and will likely have slightly higher maintenance costs...they will also pull much better and get better mpg empty and towing and have higher resale. If u want a diesel, get one.

I chuckle when I see people comparing break even points for the cost of a diesel....after all, rv'ing is a luxury, right? I mean do u really need a 10-12k lbs fifth or trailer? No...you WANT one....and paid more for it over a popup or tents and sleeping bags...you are likely more comfortable and have more amenities in your rig than the smaller units or a tent, right? Same goes for a diesel...more amenities (hp and torque) and much better performance and it costs more. If u want to spend he money do so, if not don't! I use my 2014 ram 3500 srw as my dd and love it. I don't care that is cost 8k more than a gasser....after having both, I highly doubt I will ever buy a gas truck again. ymmv
My thought exactly. I'm just to lazy to write it out. Think of it this way. You could easily and cheaply drive to work in a Taurus. But some, who can afford to, drive a BMW. A gasser can pull a trailer, a diesel will put a permanent smile on your face.

[2014Fuzion300]

x2. I've owned gassers before my diesel, I won't go back. I've used grill covers to help it warm up a bit in real cold temps. I've never had a problem with cold temps or short drives. I use my truck for whatever I need it for, I don't give it a second thought.


X2. I would not trade my diesel for any gas engine as far as I have anything to pull, but I don't have those extreme temperatures here in Georgia.
Bouncey !


Sent from my iPad.

[65aircooled]

The one thing I would recommend is an engine block heater. Most of them come from the factory with the option now.

I keep mine plugged in during the winter and have never had a problem with getting heat within 5 minutes of running it. Starting is not much of a problem anymore on the newer trucks with the new glow plug systems.

Huh:confused: No glowplugs in our trucks anymore bud, grid heater is the way we run:thumbsup:
I agree with the plug, I run mine on a timer, 2 hrs before "get up" time, helps with in cab heater time. Other than that, fronties and you are good to go.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_153798_0_138f548fcca2e2360d2009408e3837c0.jpg (http://s966.photobucket.com/user/jarce1/media/Ram/Blondie/2014-12-07%2013.06.50_zpspndrmejl.jpg.html)

[skmct]

my thought exactly. I'm just to lazy to write it out. Think of it this way. You could easily and cheaply drive to work in a taurus. But some, who can afford to, drive a bmw. A gasser can pull a trailer, a diesel will put a permanent smile on your face.

from ear to ear!!!