Hi from an East Coast Newbie

[CrifasiRF]

Hi folks. I currently have a Coachmen Clipper 17FQ. I need to upgrade my tow vehicle because I would like a larger towing capacity for safety. It handles well enough behind our Town and Country van but the specs are a little close for comfort. I am seriously thinking about a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

My wife and I just returned from a trip to Savannah GA. We stopped in Charleston on the way back. While there we spotted a Bullet Premier 19 in the camp we were in and we both fell in love with it. I will be retiring in a few years but refuse to wait to start traveling. I would like to stay with a smaller trailer and the Bullet Premier looks like it has everything I could want in a compact package. I will probably buy one in about a year but need to focus on my TV at the moment. The more I research the Bullet the more convinced I become this is the perfect unit for the wife and I. It would be fine behind the TV I am considering.

I would welcome any comments. I am still a newbie, and have lots to learn.

[hankpage]

Welcome to the forum from "Exit 98".:D (let the rest of the folks wonder about that one) I am not familiar with the ratings on the new Jeeps ... keep a close eye on payload of your new TV, this seems to be where most SUVs come up short for towing. Good luck, Hank

[koko]

We have the 19 ft. Bullet Premier and love it. We were on a trip to the east coast last fall when we saw one at one of our campgrounds and loved it so much that we drove over a thousand miles to purchase one. Have never regretted that decision. It's roomy, has lots of storage, is the perfect size and floor plan for the two of us. The quality is good, and we're having a great time with it. We've owned it for just about a year now and have taken many trips.

[CrifasiRF]

Hank, it’s "145" for me; a long way from CampWorld the nearest Keystone dealer. As I said I currently have a Coachmen Clipper 17 and am happy with it (and the dealer is in Lakewood not far from the CW dealer). At least I was until I saw the Premier Bullet. The Grand Cherokee has a 7,000 lb towing capacity, 4wd and better gas mileage. I'm looking for a good used one. The Premier 19 would still be well within that towing range. The Clipper is right at the top end to my current TV's limit. That is why I decided to upgrade even before seeing the Premier.
Koko, I was a fireman for many years and am accustom to driving larger payloads. However it's not my picture of kicking back, tending to more rolling real estate than I actually need. I am comfortable piloting the Town and Country with the Clipper in tow. I am assuming that the Premier behind the Cherokee would be comparable, if not better. But that is only an assumption on my part. I'm hoping you folks can set me straight if I'm off the mark there.
Once the TV upgrade is accomplished I will be looking for a used Premier. As with Koko I fell in love with it at first sight. I guess someone in the industry woke up to the idea that while some of us may prefer small we may not necessarily want bare bones. The Clipper is great and I'm getting used to trailering. In doing so I am realizing I will be doing a lot more of it in the years to come. Discovering the Premier came at just the right time for me.
You guys give me all the caveats so I can move ahead intelligently.

[Tbos]

Really dig into the actual specs on any new TV. Make sure you have capacity for a full load of water, gas, and all your stuff. Have fun.

[koko]

Since you're looking for used, I don't know if you realize it, but any Premier 19 beyond the 2013 doesn't have a bathroom window. We feel that is a huge deal!!! We love that back window. I like to stand there brushing my teeth looking at the trees in the forest behind me, and the extra light and ventilation is a real bonus. Also, we went into a Premier this summer at a campground (it was a 2011 or 12, can't remember), and some of the quality finishes of our 2013 are superior to the earlier models (like recessed ceiling lights). Another thing to consider is that they didn't start putting drawers under the booth seats until late 2013 (we had to add our own). All 2014s and 2015s have the drawers which add a tremendous amount of storage space. We still felt the window was more important, especially since we could add drawers ourselves. Our Durango does well, probably the Grand Cherokee will be a little better.

[CrifasiRF]

koko, thanks for that. It’s exactly the kind of info I was hoping to learn. The window is good to know about. It’s one of those things that for me would be nice to have, but I’m so pleased to have the Premier available at all I’ll take it either way! The drawers I might not even have noticed at first if you hadn't mentioned it.
I like that it has more ground clearance than the Clipper. The plumbing hanging in the rear of the Clipper has been an issue several times. Where are the gate valves for the black and grey water on the Premier? I haven't been able to figure that out from my research so far.

[koko]

Gate valve for black/grey is at back driver side behind the wheels. Very good location. We owned an R-pod HRE before the Premier (the HRE was a high version), and our Premier is even higher. We mountain camp all the time down some pretty bad roads, and we've never had a problem. With the Jeep Grand Cherokee (be sure to get the V8 - the 6 wouldn't cut it), you won't be limited - the Durango sits lower. And, of course, because it's short, we can maneuver it into some pretty tight situations. You're probably talking to the wrong people, because you're not going to hear a negative comment from us!

[CrifasiRF]

koko, no wonder I haven't spotted it. I've been looking in the wrong place. I assumed where it is on the Clipper is an industry standard. it seems like all the camp sites are setup to deliver utilities to the driver's side. Is that a problem with the Premier?

[sourdough]

The dump valves on our 2014 Cougar High Country 319RLS are on the driver's side. I don't know if that is "industry standar" but that's where they are on the majority of RV's I've seen. Some RV sites are set up so that one site pulls in and the next pulls/backs in from the opposite direction so that they double up their utilities at one location. With your valves on the other side it seems that would sure upset the RV parks rotation/parking scheme.

[koko]

Sorry for the mistake. Ours is also on driver side.

[CrifasiRF]

Koko no problem. Thanks for correcting that, it had me scratching my head for a while.
You did get me thinking about the power plant issue. I had the V6 in mind originally to bump up the TV power because I don't like being at the top end of the safety range for towing. Going from the van to the V6 Jeep would have brought me back into my comfort range, assuming I stayed with the Clipper as my TT. But now considering the Premier 19 as my next TT, I need to bump the power up another notch as you suggested. So now the V6 diesel or the V8 gasser come into play. I never thought about owning that big a machine before because the need was not there and I wanted the better gas economy. But now not only do I have the need for the extra power but it becomes a safety issue. I don't particularly like the added outlay but if I'm going to do this I want to do it intelligently and safely. Still thinking about it...

[Tbos]

Pay attention to the rear end ratio too. With the particular engine in my truck it makes a 2000 lbs difference.

[koko]

Just one more comment. Pulling the Premier, we get between 10 and 12 mpg even on a non-windy day, but in the R-Pod (1400 lbs lighter) we never got over 10 and lots of times under. Because we had such poor mileage with the Pod, we rejoice when we get 12 now. Funny how that works. We've just learned to grin and bear it.

[CrifasiRF]

I just had a learning experience with that on our trip to Savannah GA. On the way down I was monitoring the gas mileage on the dash readout. It kept creeping down from 12 mpg. It seems to average over a fairly long time span. It hit 10 mpg and kept creeping down slowly. I think I had been averaging 65-70 pretty consistently for a while. I dropped back a bit to 60-65 and noticed the mpg start to creep up and eventually settle at about 12mpg. From what I've been reading somewhere around 10 mpg seems pretty common almost irrelevant of TT weight or TV power. Have you ever seen much better in any rig combination? When I saw the Bullet design I was hoping to hear some higher numbers re mpg. That seems to be your experience from what you are saying. Am I correct?

[koko]

When there's no wind or mountain passes, you are very correct. When we go over between 60 and 65 mph, our mileage suffers drastically. We never go over 65. Doesn't feel safe and tires can't handle it anyway. On back roads, we usually go 55-60 depending on the condition of the road, but we never seem to get much better than 12 no matter what we do. Our son purchased our R-Pod from us. He pulls with a Ford F150 FX. We laugh when he moans and says he is only getting 9-10. He was used to pulling a pop-up. He also has a very heavy foot!

[CrifasiRF]

Ok , but I currently have a Town and Country van as my TV and am towing a 2731 min to 3518 max TT and feel fine. Granted I have a load leveling hitch and trailer brakes. But since I am expecting to duplicate your same situation should I be concerned about going above 65 mph in that situation? Granted 70 would ordinarily be my absolute max when towing, but should I be worried?

[SAABDOCTOR]

hi there one thought on the combo. The jeep can tow 7k great! What is the hitch weight when loaded? then what is the payload of the jeep? that includes fuel you and the dw and all your stuff is pay load so please make sure that is with in limits. remember you have to stop what you started:eek: Good luck in your search.

[hankaye]

hankpage, Howdy;

Welcome to the forum from "Exit 98".:D (let the rest of the folks wonder about that one) I am not familiar with the ratings on the new Jeeps ... keep a close eye on payload of your new TV, this seems to be where most SUVs come up short for towing. Good luck, Hank

Going back to my "Roots", We used to have a cottage on the North end of
Avalon way back in the early '50's. Think Pop sold it in '57...:(
But, then we used to head to the North end of the Jersey shore so I remember
... http://www.jerseygirlusa.com/catalog0.html

the other hank(aye)

[hankpage]

hankpage, Howdy;
Going back to my "Roots", We used to have a cottage on the North end of
Avalon way back in the early '50's. Think Pop sold it in '57...:(
But, then we used to head to the North end of the Jersey shore so I remember
... http://www.jerseygirlusa.com/catalog0.html

the other hank(aye)

1957???? That's the year it was supposed to be completed and connected to NY state. But the construction never stops. You better have EZ-pass or a pocket full of money if you plan on going the full 173 miles. Isn't progress wonderful???? :rolleyes: The other "other" Hank

I apologize to the OP for hijacking but the oldtimers minds tend to wander at times. http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=251&pictureid=1587

[koko]

Do a search of this forum on "Towing Speeds". Lots of good information no matter what you're towing or towing with.

[CrifasiRF]

Thanks koko. I was getting depressed looking at the prices for late model Grand Cherokees. Then it occured to me if I gave my ego a break and looked at slightly older ones I might be happier. I did and I think I'm right. If I can find one later than 2008 in very good shape, and keep it up I think I 'll do just fine. Nothing lasts for ever but if you keep replacing parts when they go, who knows. I know that's "old school" but then again so am I. I also started looking at Commanders. I don't see much difference other than the styleing. If some one out there knows jump in please.

[CrifasiRF]

hi there one thought on the combo. The jeep can tow 7k great! What is the hitch weight when loaded? then what is the payload of the jeep? that includes fuel you and the dw and all your stuff is pay load so please make sure that is with in limits. remember you have to stop what you started:eek: Good luck in your search.

Well what I have should be around 3600 tops (Coachman Clipper 17FQ) with a WD Hitch and what I'm thinking about 5500 tops (Keystone Premier Bullet) with a Hensley WD Hitch. Does that sound ok? Just me and the DW I'm at about 200 and she is way less. Just about every thing else will be in the TT. The TV will be almost empty except for the two soles onboard.

[CrifasiRF]

Pay attention to the rear end ratio too. With the particular engine in my truck it makes a 2000 lbs difference.

I need to narrow the playing field down a bit before I get to details like that. But your point is well taken. And a very important one when I get to the end of this process. Thanks for the reminder.

[CrifasiRF]

hankpage, Howdy;



Going back to my "Roots", We used to have a cottage on the North end of
Avalon way back in the early '50's. Think Pop sold it in '57...:(
But, then we used to head to the North end of the Jersey shore so I remember
... http://www.jerseygirlusa.com/catalog0.html

the other hank(aye)

'57 hmmm, I was just 7 that year.

The Jersey Shore has gotten too crowded for my taste now a days. My local escape has been to go west to Spruce Run and sail on the reservoir. It's beautiful and still not crowded even on holiday weekends. We have even taken the Clipper there to a camp site and sailed the boat over to the nearest shore point. The best of both worlds for us.

[SAABDOCTOR]

so what is the cargo or payload of the Jeep? tounge weight plus you and dw and fuel could be well over 1300lbs.

[koko]

When we purchased our Durango (low-mileage used), we were originally going for the Jeep Grand Cherokee. We were trading in a 1-year-old Jeep Liberty Arctic that was struggling to pull the Pod (overheating even with tow package, and putting on another trans cooler would have voided our warranty). Trade-in was ridiculous, and we even went to the dealer where we had purchased it new. New Grand Cherokees were so expensive, and they didn't have any used. The dealer told us that one of his sales people had just traded in the Durango for a car (23,000 miles). That's how we ended up with the Durango. We also use a weight distribution hitch - we couldn't do without it.

[CrifasiRF]

so what is the cargo or payload of the Jeep? tounge weight plus you and dw and fuel could be well over 1300lbs.

Max payload of the truck is 1290
Tongue weight is 410

Not sure about fuel weight, so it could be close, but we will have a WD hitch and the trailer + 1000 lbs is still 2000 under the max towing weight. I think we should be fine.

But only a stop at the truck scales will tell the whole story.

[CrifasiRF]

When we purchased our Durango (low-mileage used), we were originally going for the Jeep Grand Cherokee. We were trading in a 1-year-old Jeep Liberty Arctic that was struggling to pull the Pod (overheating even with tow package, and putting on another trans cooler would have voided our warranty). Trade-in was ridiculous, and we even went to the dealer where we had purchased it new. New Grand Cherokees were so expensive, and they didn't have any used. The dealer told us that one of his sales people had just traded in the Durango for a car (23,000 miles). That's how we ended up with the Durango. We also use a weight distribution hitch - we couldn't do without it.

Ok koko I've been doing my homework. Though I don't like the gas milage at all it has becom obvious, if I intend to pull Keystone Premier 19, it will have to be with a V8. The price tags I have been seeing on the Internet have been making me queezy. I decided to take a trip to my local Chrysler dealership. That just confirmed my sticker shock. So it looks like I'll either have to give up the idea or fade back and punt. In other words look for an older (2008?) TV in good shape. How trust worthy would something like that be for long trips? The assumption being that it is kept in good mechanical repair. I just can't see putting out so much money for a late model no less a new one. Any feed back would be appreciated.

[koko]

Try to find a low-mileage gem. Jeep, when well maintained, lasts a long time. Ask your dealer to keep an eye out for something good. Our daughter purchased a 2000 Grand Cherokee, had 75,000 miles, specifically to pull their camper.

[65aircooled]

Greetings from exit 139, not too far from you. I don't see many campers around here if at all. We have to have ours parked in Tewksbury, about a 40 min ride.
Good luck with your quest for a new TV and enjoy;)