Really Challenging Start

[Sad camper]

So here is my tale of sad camping which I will follow up with updates.

My brand new RV Keystone Outback (had it less than 45 days) met its first rain storm. Water falls (literally) started pouring out of the front charging station and receptacles. Contacted the local dealer as I am more than 1200 miles from home on a trip. They advised that I seal it up and proceed home to the dealer that sold me the d=camper saying that once that much water was in the wall, I should look at replacing the camper and that the repair would take months. I have not yet made my first payment. I awoke to take the Rv to the local dealer in Willis Texas to get sealed but was awoken by my wet mattress and continued waterfalls from electrical sockets around the bed area. My clothes in the closet were soaked. With it still raining, I decided to drive immediately the 18 hours back to the local dealer who sold me the RV. When I was setting up in the rain to leave, the Kitchen slide would not come in. upon further inspection, the cable was off the wheel on the top forward cable and has jammed in the bracket causing the bracket to bend. The slide is stuck out. I cant move. Still raining, still water pouring in. I will update all on how the dealer and Keystone responds. So far, at least the local dealer in texas (not where I bought) explained that I needed the entire front removed, dried out and parts replaced, lengthy repair better done at home. Home folks discussed putting some caulk on. I laughed. I have owned a variety of rvs for 20 years. This is a nightmare scenario. I will report out on how this gets handled. In my opinion, these are not warranty repairs but existing product defects and they should give me a new RV. If the repairs are no big deal, they should have no trouble carrying them out and reselling it. Updates soon.:(:banghead:

[theeyres]

Your scenario is simply beyond belief. I don't know what I'd to in your situation. Good luck.

[bsmith0404]

Ummmm DAMN! That's all I have to say about that.

[WaltBennett]

If Keystone doesn't immediately give you a new unit, I'd be finding a lawyer.

[GaryWT]

Good luck and yes please keep us updated.

[Glenn54]

This doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. Taking delivery next week on my 1st TT. I sure hope they give you a brand new trailer. Good luck.

[DWM]

Am I the only one that things this sounds strange. I would think for water to be pouring out multiple outlets it would take a huge opening to let that much water in. Wouldn't the walls have to be full of water up to the height of the outlets for water to come out of them? I have never seen outlets in the closet of a camper so how did those clothes get soaked unless water was coming through the ceiling? And third I have never seen a kitchen slide with the cable slide. Only slides I have seen use cables are the small bedroom slides in 5th wheels. Are there models out that use the cables on the bigger lower level slides? I would like to know if this is a TT or 5th wheel and what model this is?

[chuckster57]

Am I the only one that things this sounds strange. I would think for water to be pouring out multiple outlets it would take a huge opening to let that much water in. Wouldn't the walls have to be full of water up to the height of the outlets for water to come out of them? I have never seen outlets in the closet of a camper so how did those clothes get soaked unless water was coming through the ceiling? And third I have never seen a kitchen slide with the cable slide. Only slides I have seen use cables are the small bedroom slides in 5th wheels. Are there models out that use the cables on the bigger lower level slides? I would like to know if this is a TT or 5th wheel and what model this is?


Depending on model, I've seen outlets in closets, and plumbing for washer/dryer. Cables are used on a variety of slides, big small upper and lower. Just did a '15 outback that had 3 slides all cable.

[SAABDOCTOR]

NO CHUCKSTER YOUR NOT ALONE! Something sounds a tad off. Sure gets our attention:confused:

[JRTJH]

Big rain which has happened in many parts to he US, however, no signature or location, but then first post I have no reason not to believe him. Until shown different, I really feel sorry for the guy. Must be some big cracks on the top side or perhaps seams not sealed around the cap, that would explain all the water in a heavy rain fall coming down the walls out the electrical. I have a outlet in my closet as well, cloths wet, that just says bad caulking or as I said maybe none. I sure wouldn't want to be in his shoes and I don't think anyone else would either. I wish you the best in your endeavor for repair/replacement.

The OP's first post indicates (in the upper right corner of the post) that his location is 27958. The Zip code is for Moyock, NC. In the post, he indicates that he took the camper to the "LOCAL DEALER" in Willis, Texas {just north of Conroe and Houston, Texas) for inspection. It would appear from his statements that his "location" is Moyock, NC and he is "1200 miles from home" in Willis, Texas at the current time. So, yes, there is a location given, both his home area and his current travel location are listed in the post.

Hopefully, this is a "simple fix" and he can get back to camping without too much of a hassle. I also would be a very "sad camper" if this had happened to me.

[Glenn54]

"Assume positive intention". OP may have left some things out of the explanation due to the stressful situation.


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[So Cal CPA]

If Keystone doesn't immediately give you a new unit, I'd be finding a lawyer.

This.

Can't wait to see pics and/or see how Keystone resolves this. I wouldn't accept anything less than either a new unit or to void the deal altogether. This is a completely defective unit in my mind. Shouldn't have to make payments on a unit you cannot use because it was defective off the factory floor.

[Steve S]

"Assume positive intention". OP may have left some things out of the explanation due to the stressful situation.


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X 2, I think if I woke up to that sort of mess in a brand new trailer I wouldn't be writing a novel on every detail as my mind would be spinning as what to do about things.
I hope things work out for him:)

[DWM]

Depending on model, I've seen outlets in closets

In a closet slide? I don't see them running electric wires into a small wardrobe slide in a 5th wheel. Maybe they did but I have never seen it. He did say it was an Outback and since it is posted on the 5ver forum that's what I will assume it is and every Outback 5ver model has the wardrobe slide according to website. That would mean the slide also has a big leak alone with the massive leak pouring water out multiple outlets like a waterfall. Even if the slide does have outlets water is not going to follow the wire out one wall and back in the slide wall to soak his clothes. This may be a true story but I just can not picture in my mind that big a hole and that much water coming in without a fire hose pointed at the leaks. Maybe a disgruntled worker turned the gutter into the wall. If his story is true I wish him luck at getting a new camper because this one will be junk with that much water. Hope he opened the door to let the river run back out.

[Bulletproof]

All of a sudden, my camper problems seem null!

[outwest]

With that much water, hoo boy! Feel for ya and hope it gets sorted.

@DWM - regarding cable for kitchen slide - it's a shallow slide (18" deep) but the Vantage 32FLS has a kitchen slide (with fridge, stove, microwave, counter, and sink) that uses the cable system. Previous rig was an Open Range Journeyer that had dining table and entertainment center on a deep slide that used cable system and loveseat, fridge, and oven in another slide that also used cable.

[Sad camper]

To all doubters. The wall was full of water. Here is the link to the video. I have pictures as well. I was finally contacted by the Customer Service manager at Keystone last week who began to slowly offer remediation. I asked him to write it down and send it to my attorney. He contacted me only because he received a letter from my attorney. There is a huge disconnect between the dealer and the manufacturer and I am getting different stories. Keystone offered to bring it back to the factory and basically overhaul the camper. They also offered to cover "some" of my payments. Nothing has been mentioned about the devaluation of a water damaged RV that is brand new. To date, the attorney has not received their written remediation plan.

Link to the damage below.....which again occurred prior to my first payment, on my first trip, 22 hours from home.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203609450691248&set=vb.1065302449&type=2&theater

I have not had a usable RV since my initial post (they have had it for months for repair at TAC in Moyock, NC). I just make the payments. TAC (the dealer) called today saying it was ready for pickup and that all approved repairs were complete. They replaced none of the interior water soaked cabinets, mattress, bed, floor......nothing but a new roof and said everything else was fine. Unacceptable to me and not what Keystone offered to do for us over the phone.

The bottom line is that I was sold a hugely defective product and they are happy to patch it up and hand it back. Would any of you accept that ? probably not. Nor will I.

My name is John Lorentz and I live in Moyock, NC. These (TAC or Keystone) people didn't even contact me at all during the repairs (months) until my attorney sent them a letter. They are running out of time to do the right thing. Soon this will get expensive for everyone.

I don't even want to see the RV again. I was sold a complete piece of junk and was relegated to a patch job repair and now have to spend money on an attorney to get them to do the right thing. Stay away from Keystone. I have no evidence that they will do the right thing on their own. My attorney has instructions to contact them one more time and then file at the courthouse. I will keep you posted. This is the real deal rip off.

John

[Sad camper]

The slide out that failed was the kitchen. It was unrelated to the rain penetration but prevented me from moving to the appointed place of temporary repair as I couldn't move the RV until a field repair was conducted to retract the slide. It rained the entire time which worsened the damage to the interior components. I was stuck. It looked to me as if the cables were improperly installed as they seemed twisted on the forward edge (which derailed) in a way that the aft cables were not.

John

[Sad camper]

I live in Moyock, NC 27958 where the dealer TAC is located. The failure occurred on College Station Texas. Willis Texas was the dealer Keystone customer service instructed me to take the RV (the day the slide failed). After I retracted the slide, I drove straight through 22 hours to TAC.

See if you can find some holes in that. Soon enough you can read the court records. Currituck County is where the case will be filed.

John

[chuckster57]

I don't see where anybody was trying find "holes" in your story. I am sorry you are having issues with your new trailer and I hope it is resolved in a manner that is satisfactory to both parties.

[theeyres]

What a nightmare! I can't imagine having to deal with it. Most of us have positive things to say about our Keystones but every so often something like this happens. I just can't believe they wouldn't send you a new rig just for PR's sake.

[notanlines]

John, (Sad Camper), I believe only DWM doubted your story and he's more than likely just appalled at what you've written. I am surprised at the condition you describe, but am also a believer. If you follow this forum or others like it you will find that most manufacturers are not very receptive to the demands of the end user. Keystone falls into that category quite nicely. Most (not all) members write that Keystone simply refers them back to the selling dealer and wipes their hands of the problem. My opinion is a little different from Chuckster in that I wouldn't really care if it was settled to the satisfaction of Keystone. On behalf of all of us with "nose trouble" here, please keep us informed of your legal travels and the results.

[x96mnn]

Wow, that some bad luck there and it does not surprise me that the issues are being sugar coated by Keystone. Although I loved my keystone products and my warranty issues, although minor were looked after no issues, there is not a camping forum where you will not go on and find the exact same issue but replace keystone with any of the other production lines.

Now that you have mentioned attorney to them, I do not think you will hear anything from them at all. That is most large companies standard operation procedures, lawyer mentioned, lock it down and do not respond. Keep in mind their lawyer is getting paid regardless of your court case so it is not going to cost them anymore. In the end they will have a document that once they meet the requirements they can wash their hands of it. Much easier making a court happy then a person happy.

[Javi]

Sorry for your problems and hope you get it all worked out to your satisfaction. Other than that I got nothing....

[ncgrl1]

I would be soooo sick! I do hope Keystone gives you a new camper, and I hope things get better so you can have a Merry Christmas...

[Sad camper]

Thanks everyone for your support. The reality is that I understand how they operate. In the end, they are going to pay my attorney fees. I don't care at this point how much this costs. They are going to be as inconvenienced as I am. It would be cheaper and easier to make this right up front for everyone. They clearly sold me a defective product. Indications are they are washing their hands. I don't care how much the attorney costs. They need to think about what their attorney fees and PR will cost. We live in a small town. Everyone is going to court for a very long time if I don't get a brand new RV or my money back. This is just a basically decent thing to do given the circumstances. It is what I would do. Especially if I claimed to be a customer focus leader in the RV community. This is not about the money any more.

John

[GmaPaTime]

I hear you "Sad camper" and yes, we are a small area even if we are self's are in Chesapeake. Although we do not deal with "TAC", we will warn our many friends of the problems you're encountering with them.

Wish you the best and hope your problems are resolved to your liking.

[Sad camper]

GmaPaTime,

Thanks for your support!

All we can do is try to be reasonable and try to hold businesses accountable for ethical behavior. Of course at this point both the dealer and Keystone throw up in my face that things are different now that I have retained an attorney. My retention of an attorney was after months of no response, negotiation or customer contact from them. Now that has become their excuse like I have done something wrong or have complicated the situation. I am just trying to be made whole.

The moderator posted that he hoped it would be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. I am confounded by that statement. The other parties have been compensated when I purchased the RV. The only person harmed financially and with the hassle and stress of this situation is the Lorentz family. Everyone else has been paid. I am stuck with a water damaged piece of junk.

I called the Keystone Customer Relations Manager who didn't have answers as everyone is out today including my attorney. We will see if they stand behind their product. TAC did not. I advised tem that TAC called and reported all authorized repairs were complete and I could come pick it up. Of course none of the water exposed interior was touched. Keystone did not seem pleased that TAC represented that Keystone was only willing to perform what has been done to date.

They are quickly running out of time to do the right thing. I am not a threatening person. I have just been screwed over by people that to date have not stood behind their terrible quality product.

Keystone never really engaged until they received a letter from my attorney.

V/R John

[chuckster57]

I posted as a member not as a moderator. I nor any other moderator has any affiliation with Keystone, I simply made that comment in hopes of a resolution that was acceptable to both.

My position as a moderator is at the will of the forum administration, we are not compensated in ANY fashion, and I will stand by my previous post-I do hope that this issue is resolved in an acceptable manner.

[bsmith0404]

I'm glad you came to this forum to share your story. It is an interesting one at that, I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction. Please continue to keep us all updated.

Also, I understand that a few doubtful comments about you situation must have been disheartening and frustrating for you, please know that most of us did not doubt your situation was legit. Hope you will stay an active member of the forum, it really is a good group. Like any group we may not always see eye to eye, but it's all good in the end.

Good luck with your battle, hope it is resolved soon.

[EVMIII]

I have been extremely lucky with my Alpine, but based on reading your woes I asked my dealer what they would do in this case and they replied they would take the camper back and fight Keystone. I'd leave with a new one, only costs would be if upgraded.

As previously mentioned, I think that quality control is hit and miss. An individual trying to deal with Keystone directly could be very difficult; your dealer should be if your advocate.

I ended up with a keystone because I liked the layout and features, but I selected my dealer before I chose my camper.

Best of luck with your efforts; you will never be compensated for your pain and suffering ( no camper) but hopefully you can get the/a camper and back on the road enjoying the great outdoors very soon. God Bless and safe travels.

[LittleJoe]

Sorry to hear of your problems. This kind of thing should never happen in the first place if proper quality control is being adhered to.

Sadly the poor workmanship behind all the polish and fluff runs rampant in many many brands irregardless of the amounts of money involved. I have personally seen absolutely deplorable problems in 500K$ motorhomes .

In my mind, the only thing that will start to straighten some of this poor quality up will be when warranties are extended to 5yrs as they should be given the $ involved. Would anyone buy a new$50K truck if it had a one year warranty??

RANT OFF:eek::D

[Sad camper]

Following several back and forth exchanges between my attorney and Keystone, we filed a lawsuit for damages. We asked that Keystone take the unit back and repair to new condition and cover all of our expenses until the unit was returned. They did not respond thus we were left with no alternative.

V/R John

[BirchyBoy]

Sorry for all of your troubles SadCamper. Hopefully you will come out whole in the end.

[notanlines]

Sad Camper, thanks for keeping us apprised of your dilemma. I'm willing to bet that you catch more flies with a swatter than with honey!

[mark1228]

I know this won't be popular but after watching the video I don't see as much water as I was expecting. I have seen trailers flooded much worse than this be repaired and be fine, including one of mine that I hooked up to city water before the first time I used it and didn't know the bathroom sink faucet was open with the plug in the sink so it overflowed. I had a waterfall coming out of that unit before I found it. I dried it out and used for years. I do agree that it shouldn't happen in the first place. It's to bad it has come to this and I am hoping for a speedy resolution for all.