About to order my 303TG

[tribalsimba]

After 4 years of enjoying the family hand me down 1983 22' TT; passed down three generations; we are taking the plunge. After two years of consideration; the Laredo 303TG has become our object of affection. I have the dealer; the loan; and the specifications. Now I'm just waiting to pull the trigger.

We don't typically go more than about 3 hours from home; yet. Our kids aren't even 2 yet either. Once they get a bit older; we'll start travelling further. That was why we liked the 303TG. It will be a very long term investment for our family, and it has the features we think will stand the test of time; and make the experience more enjoyable (U Shaped Dinette, Kids Room Slide; Outdoor Kitchen, Outdoor Bathroom access, large awning, electric leveling).

On the technical: I have a 2004 Silverado 1500 5.3L CrewCab 4x4 w/ Load Range "E" GoodYear meat. It has has been towing our 4000lb TT with ease. It does only have the 3.73 gears.

The '83 has a Reese Dual Cam WD/Sway which smoothes things out, and with the new camper I've got my eye on an Equ-A-lizer WD/Sway system.

When we start taking longer trips, over 4 hours, in about 5 years; we plan to upgrade to 3/4 Ton SUV with more room to fit more kids (friends).

Can anyone here speak to the 303TG; and anything I should be looking for/thinking of that I may not be?

[Festus2]

Welcome to the forum, tribalsimba! I can't speak to the 303TG other than what I have seen on the Keystone website but I would be a bit concerned pulling it with your present TV. The 303TG is listed as 7500 lb dry weight and if you add all of the other "stuff" (both in the vechicle and the TT), you are looking at pretty close to 9000 lb by the time you are finished. The advertised hitch weight is 840 lbs.
Regardless of the tires you have on your Silverado, you will be towing nearly twice the weight as you were before. Personally, I wouldn't wait for 5 years to go to a bigger TV. I think you are looking at the right RV but you might give serious thought to towing it with something more substantial than your present truck. I wouldnt want to be towing the 303TG in mountainous terrain with your 5.3 and the 3.73 rear end. If you aren't pushing the limits, you are very close and for safety reasons alone it seems a bit of a stretch.

[tribalsimba]

Festus - Greatly appreciate your concerns and suggestions. Changing the TV would be nice; but there is one thing I struggle with regarding the TV.

Does a 2500 Crew Cab physically weigh more? Isn't that the real substantial safety concern; the weight of the TV to the TT?

I found this fairly informative guide to the 'abilities' of the 2004 Chevrolet's ( http://www.trailerlife.com/images/elements/883783_Towing_Guide.pdf )
; and a 2500 Crew Cab HD is only able to 'pull' more trailer if it has the 4.10 or lower gearing; or has more motor? So the 'abiltiy' seems more propotional to engine power and gearing than weight; which seems to suggest that weight is not part of the equation. Maybe braking is; as the breaks are larger possibly with more pistons in a 3/4 ton; but marginally it seems to me.

Anyone more 'technical' on the truck/TV mechanics and how it pertains to towing?

We don't have any intentions of getting into anything 'mountainous' in the next few years. For the most part we taking 1 - 2 hours jaunts on mostly flat roads. There is one trip that will be a little longer; but I won't mind taking my time. At this point we're weekenders; taking a week here and there. We dump on the way out; rarely ever run with any fluids in the tanks; and travel pretty lite; given our short stays.

[66ken]

In my opinion,if you are trying to pull close to 9,000 lbs you need a larger TV. I used to own a 2004 1500 Ext cab with 5.3 and 4.10 gears and sometimes pulled around 9,000 lbs.I was pulling skid loaders so I didn't have much wind resistance. Way to much weight to pull and stop safetly, not sure with 3.73 gears it would pull it. I now have a 2500HD and have no problem with close 12,000 lbs behind me.

[camper 2010]

I agree with Festus2, The truck will be overloaded. It may be able to pull the trailer on level roads if there is no wind. The part that I would worry about the the brakes. Like I said, the truck may get it rolling, but it will overload your brakes. The 2500 has much larger brake system.
With you only going on short trips, just remember, that MOST accidents happen within 5 miles of your house.

[Jim W]

Festus - Greatly appreciate your concerns and suggestions. Changing the TV would be nice; but there is one thing I struggle with regarding the TV.

Does a 2500 Crew Cab physically weigh more? Isn't that the real substantial safety concern; the weight of the TV to the TT?

I found this fairly informative guide to the 'abilities' of the 2004 Chevrolet's ( http://www.trailerlife.com/images/elements/883783_Towing_Guide.pdf )
; and a 2500 Crew Cab HD is only able to 'pull' more trailer if it has the 4.10 or lower gearing; or has more motor? So the 'abiltiy' seems more propotional to engine power and gearing than weight; which seems to suggest that weight is not part of the equation. Maybe braking is; as the breaks are larger possibly with more pistons in a 3/4 ton; but marginally it seems to me.

Anyone more 'technical' on the truck/TV mechanics and how it pertains to towing?

.

I have been around trucks for more than 40 years of owning and operating vehicles. Also I am a retired engineer from Caterpillar.

Now I do not consider myself an expert but you did ask for advice.

A 1/2 ton vehicles built in the last 20 years is nothing more than a grocery getter and a trip to the local hardware store to be overload with wood on the way home.

A 3/4 ton HD truck is built like a truck. What I mean is there are larger components on the truck, axles, driveshaft, brakes, transmission, spring packs, frame and larger cooling components, such as the radiator and transmission cooler.

On my old 2500HD Chevy Extend Cab, this vehicle even had two batteries since it had the trailer towing package to help with the electrical load and a larger alternator. The transmission had the tow/haul feature, which will program the shift points in the transmission to assist in starting to move the load from when you are stand still.

These are some of the difference between a 1/2 ton grocery getter and a 3/4 ton truck.

Also please please do not listen to your salesman, that your truck can pull this trailer. He is trying to make a sale and does not care at all what you are going to use to pull the trailer with.

Jim

[tribalsimba]

Jim - Thank you

I respect your expertise and comments.

What I have done is pull a 27' V-Nose Snowmobile trailer with a 3 bedroom apartment inside with my old 1997 1500 4x4 Dodge Ext Cab w/ 5.2L 600 miles through West Virginia. You might say that was an overloaded situation, especially since there wasn't Weight Distribution or Sway control on that trailer. Certainly it worked the engine/trans; but I never felt unsafe on that ride (once we got the load leveled inside).

I am positive my 1983 Sunline weighs more than the book says; cause it's got some waterlog, rust, and age.

My truck is a 2004, and I've owned it a while. The camper dealer is a personal friend; and he has expressed his concern that maybe it's not enough truck. So I'm not being 'snowballed' by anyone, I'm just more of a technical NUT, so I question that actual WHY on the differences between my truck and a 3/4 upgrade.

Frame Rails - sure they are larger and can handle more stress
Brakes - I don't think 3/4 Ton means larger brakes, the 6.0L 3/4 Ton Crew Cab has the same brakes (as far as I can tell), and is rated for only 1000 lbs more than my truck (per the Chevy and RVTowing Guide Books).
Axles - this is an interesting difference. Certainly the floating hubs vs what I have is a significant improvement to relieve the weight off the axle shaft and ensure longevity. But that's not improving braking, or safety; unless my axles were to snap off.

So, is it really 3/4 ton is better/safer; or are there individual components that mean the difference; and if I want to tow 9000 lbs; I should be focused on a vehicle that is rated to tow 25% more than that; with 'certain' components.

I am not questioning that I will be "MAXING" out my truck; and there are more risks. But what I'm not convinced of is that an entry level 3/4 ton Crew Cab truck will put me in any better of a situation. There appears to be several components that are 'upgraded' as you navigate through the differnet 3/4 ton models; and I want to ensure I'm focused on the right aspects that count; without overdo'ing it or the budget.

Again, everyone; I thank you for your comments and compassion. I do want to be safe; and I know you are looking out for me.

[campingcpl]

We had a 2004 GMC 1500 Extra Cab 2 wheel drive with the same engine and drive tran your truck has. We have a trailer that is a little bit smaller and lighter then the one you are considering and didn't have a problem with short trips as long it wasn't to windy or hilly but when it came to long trips where we ran into hills and wind it became obvious that the truck did not have the torque to pull in those conditions. For the short trips you might be find if you can handle driving slower and the reduced gas milage. But for the long trips I hope you have a lot of paitence because you will need them pulling a trailer that size with that truck. We never loaded ours over 8500 lbs. and still strugled that's why we bit the bullet and bought the 2500 HD Diesel.

[Jim W]

Jim - Thank you

Frame Rails - sure they are larger and can handle more stress
Brakes - I don't think 3/4 Ton means larger brakes, the 6.0L 3/4 Ton Crew Cab has the same brakes (as far as I can tell), and is rated for only 1000 lbs more than my truck (per the Chevy and RVTowing Guide Books).
Axles - this is an interesting difference. Certainly the floating hubs vs what I have is a significant improvement to relieve the weight off the axle shaft and ensure longevity. But that's not improving braking, or safety; unless my axles were to snap off.


I cannot speak for the Chevy/GMC, but I am sure that they are very similar to the RAM pick-up trucks. I have attached the Dodge Builder's.com website. This list the differences between the 1500 and 2500/3500HD trucks.
Please read this to see what I am saying.
http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2008/docs/dr/ts.pdf

Brakes are large on the 3/4t ton and 1 ton truck, in fact they are almost double in the square area for braking. Frame are thicker by 70%, axles are a larger diameter and have a thicker wall. Drive shaft is a larger diameter and thicker wall, the u-joints are a larger diameter also.
Jim

[tribalsimba]

Thanks everyone. I will report back on how the ride home goes from the Dealer when it finally arrives. I'm told if we 'order' that may be 11 weeks... better hurry up and pull the trigger I guess! Course the way Winter has been up here in NW PA; the snow may not be melted by then anyway.

Cheers.

[tribalsimba]

The 303TG is on order with the "Best in Class" Package; and the 15K/BTU A/C. Hopefully we'll see it before May. Then hopefully our trip in June to Gettysburg through 'some' mountainous hills goes well. We have three shorter trips planned before then.

[tribalsimba]

Just got the call. Dealer expects to recieve our camper this weekend, and we've scheduled our pickup for April 25th. That's about 10 weeks from order to Dealer Lot. I'll have pictures, and details on how the 1/2 Ton Chev Crew Cab towed her as soon as we get it home.

[SpiderCO]

Will the dealer even let you take it off the lot with a 1/2 ton?

[DTJ9610]

Awsome, your going to love the new camper. We've had ours for about 2 months now and I can't wait to get going. We will be pulling it with a 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8. Pulled it home well now let's see how it all works once loaded and ready.

As for Gettysburg, where abouts. We also have a trip planned at the end of June for Gettysburg BattleField Resort