**** CAUTION : Tires May Not Be The Problem

[Jager]

Greetings everyone,
Like many on here I had numerous problems with tires blowing out prematurely. I tried multiple brands and with little or no help. Fustrated i move up from E load rating to Sailun 637's (G load rating I believe). Well first off let me say the Sailuns are AWESOME, truly unbelievable tires. I have a little over 2,000 miles on them and they still look new. On top of that I just torture tested them (see link below).

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18707

I messed up and got into a parking lot with no way out. I'm lucky enough to have a tow vehicle that can turn sharper than an 2500 on the market today. Using the incredible turning ability to my TV I cranked the camper around in the parking lot and made it out. That was nice but in the process I bent the heck out of my suspension.

What I find truly amazing is that the tires seem to have suffered NO damage. The tires literally gripped the ground and side walls were so tough that the steel suspension hangers gave out first.

In the end please learn from my painful lesson:
1) DO NOT crank your camper around so tightly in a turn as to force your tires to skid across the ground, especially if you are on payment or concrete.

2) If you do #1 above I would suggest that it may be the cause of your tires growing ripples in the side wall and blowing out much sooner than you feel they should. Putting this kind of pressure or force on your tires is very bad for their life expectancy.

3) If your tires are actually strong enough to survive such a torture test . . . well your suspension may not be.

Just a word of advise from the newly educated ;-)

[Ken / Claudia]

Question, since I do not know those tires. Are they trailer tires or LT tires. It may or may not have anything to do with the damage, not saying it would, just asking.

[Jager]

I found out about these tires on this forum. I absolutely am loving them. It is amazing that they took the pressure I applied to them and didn't bubble or rip the side walls out.

This is the only website I can refer you to in an effort to answer your question. The tires didn't "cause" the damage to my camper any more than guns kill people or spoons make you fat. I caused the damage by doing something I shouldn't have. I am better educated now and won't be doing that again.

http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html

[TomHaycraft]

Jager, your experience has me curious. While weights of our trailers are quite different, I'm curious to know how tightly you had to cut the trailer. I routinely have to back mine in, making 90 degree turn to park in driveway to empty and wash after trips, then into storage, not to mention some parks.

Street in front of our house has the least room and therefore limits the "arc" I can make to minimize getting to 90'.

Thanks in advance.

[JRTJH]

There is a thread discussing the installation of "too much tire" on the forum. One of the issues is that by installing a tire with limited flexing in the sidewalls, it's possible to transfer that road shock to the suspension and possibly create other issues. Tire sidewalls are designed to flex which absorbs some of the road shock before the suspension is affected. By installing tires with stiffer sidewalls, you may transfer too much road shock and create increased suspension wear or damage.

While I'm no expert on tires, I wonder if it's possible that these bent suspension hangers may have been, in part, damaged because the sidewalls on the heavier tires didn't roll and allow the tires to slide sideways during that extreme turn?

It's no consolation, but would a damaged or "popped" tire have been less "total damage" than the bent hangers?

I wonder if changing the "weakest" link may have impacted this suspension damage?

[Desert185]

Good thought on the impact (really...no pun) on the suspension system. I'm down to either Maxxis or Sailun tires, and the Sailuns seem to be a bit more robust tire of the two, but probably not enough to do any harm to the suspension, I'm thinking.

Maxxis would be stock, 235/80-16 and Sailun would be 235/85-16. Pretty much a wash on dimension.

[Jager]

TomHaycraft - I tried other tire bands and basically ripped up the sidewalls. I think they may have been slightly over loaded from Keystone but I'm also fairly sure at this point that because on occasion I cranked the camper into some tight lots at camp grounds this may have contributed to the early failure of my tires.

The lighter the camper the less the worry. Mine is heavy to start and then I load 120 gallons of water, 40 gallons of gas, a jet ski, etc . . . it is heavy.

However if you routinely crank your camper to the point it requires your tires to skid across the ground when turning . . . well it is beating the heck out of the tires and the suspension hangers. There is no 2 ways about it. If you do these kind of turns often I would suggest keeping a close eye on your tires and suspension.

John - I TOTALLY don't think the damage was due to vertical stress of the suspension. Going up and down wouldn't bend the suspension hangers. Are the tires too much? Only if you turn the camper so tightly that the tires must skid on the payment. Is it better to rip up the tires that the suspension? I guess that depends on your point of view. I don't plan to have this problem again. I am reinforcing the crappy fabrication that Keystone gave me. My suspension hangers won't bend again, period. Now I just need to be very careful and not turn the camper so tightly.

And "yes", I do think that changing the weakest link (tires) caused the suspension to get bent, but not from vertical movement. I do think that because the new tires wouldn't blow out the side walls that the suspension was the next weakest link and it bent.

Desert - I would get the Sailun's again. If these ever wear out I will replace them with the same thing. They are ROCK solid. The speed rating is higher and much more reasonable and they are such heavy duty tires they are just awesome. No worries for me about tires again.

I am also changing up to a Dexter HD EZ Flex suspension. This is a much heavier duty wet bolt, bronze bushings, etc . . . suspension. This is going to help all of these problems out as well. When I get done this time I should be good for a very long time. Now I just need to make sure the deal or service center doesn't crank the camper around when (if) I leave it there.

[2011 keystone]

to Jager. I dont no much about tires but I have to say I LOVE YOUR TRUCK"bouncey:

[Jager]

to Jager. I dont no much about tires but I have to say I LOVE YOUR TRUCK"bouncey:

Thanks! It is a head turner and gets comments all the time.

[2011 keystone]

I bet it does. My wife may be mad at you when I show her what Im going shopping for LOL.

[JRTJH]

TomHaycraft - I tried other tire bands and basically ripped up the sidewalls. I think they may have been slightly over loaded from Keystone but I'm also fairly sure at this point that because on occasion I cranked the camper into some tight lots at camp grounds this may have contributed to the early failure of my tires.

The lighter the camper the less the worry. Mine is heavy to start and then I load 120 gallons of water, 40 gallons of gas, a jet ski, etc . . . it is heavy.

However if you routinely crank your camper to the point it requires your tires to skid across the ground when turning . . . well it is beating the heck out of the tires and the suspension hangers. There is no 2 ways about it. If you do these kind of turns often I would suggest keeping a close eye on your tires and suspension.

John - I TOTALLY don't think the damage was due to vertical stress of the suspension. Going up and down wouldn't bend the suspension hangers. Are the tires too much? Only if you turn the camper so tightly that the tires must skid on the payment. Is it better to rip up the tires that the suspension? I guess that depends on your point of view. I don't plan to have this problem again. I am reinforcing the crappy fabrication that Keystone gave me. My suspension hangers won't bend again, period. Now I just need to be very careful and not turn the camper so tightly.

And "yes", I do think that changing the weakest link (tires) caused the suspension to get bent, but not from vertical movement. I do think that because the new tires wouldn't blow out the side walls that the suspension was the next weakest link and it bent.

Desert - I would get the Sailun's again. If these ever wear out I will replace them with the same thing. They are ROCK solid. The speed rating is higher and much more reasonable and they are such heavy duty tires they are just awesome. No worries for me about tires again.

I am also changing up to a Dexter HD EZ Flex suspension. This is a much heavier duty wet bolt, bronze bushings, etc . . . suspension. This is going to help all of these problems out as well. When I get done this time I should be good for a very long time. Now I just need to make sure the deal or service center doesn't crank the camper around when (if) I leave it there.

Tom,

I am in complete agreement with you with regards to vertical movement/stress of the tires/suspension. Vertical stress/movement did not cause the bent hangers.

My question (not criticism) would be if the tire sidewalls being so stiff, could the lateral stress created (in the extreme turn) have caused the hangers to bend because the tire sidewalls didn't roll (during the extreme maneuver) and thereby "create the problem" by not flexing?.....

My concern, if I were in your shoes, would be this: If, by beefing up the hangers so they "won't bend again, ever" if any future "lateral" stress should be encountered, if the "immovable, unbendable" hangers don't give, will they send the stress "back to the tires" which are (should be) flexing to absorb some of the stress, or will the hangers and "solid sidewalls" send the stress "up to the frame" and cause additional, possibly hidden damage which could cause a catastrophic failure at some future date? My limited experience with Lippert and with Keystone is that they both "engineer" to a very light standard. By doing so, are the "upper components" engineered strong enough to take the additional stress of the extremely heavy sidewall tires and the "immovable" hangers without incurring damage?

Again, I'm not criticizing your repairs. If I were in your shoes, like you, I'd be trying to fix the problem once and for all. I'm just asking whether or not you've considered the potential for where you're directing the lateral stresses you're going to encounter in the future.

[Jager]

I bet it does. My wife may be mad at you when I show her what Im going shopping for LOL.

LOL . . . well she'll have to come a fair distance to hunt me down. I got sick of having to update/upgrade my truck every time we got a larger camper. Now I don't worry about that anu more ;-)

Good luck finding one of these. Right after Obama bought the company for all of us they shut down the production line. Last year they were made was 2009. Now all you can get are the little F450 or Dodge 4500's which are nearly the same as the 3500's they offer. Today the only true 2 ton'ish trucks made are the International's and such. The FL70's are CRAZY $$ too. Anyway look around . . . you can still find plenty of used Kodiak's out there for very reasonable money.

[Jager]

. . . if the tire sidewalls being so stiff, could the lateral stress created (in the extreme turn) have caused the hangers to bend because the tire sidewalls didn't roll (during the extreme maneuver) and thereby "create the problem" by not flexing?.....

My concern, if I were in your shoes, would be this: If, by beefing up the hangers so they "won't bend again, ever" if any future "lateral" stress should be encountered, if the "immovable, unbendable" hangers don't give, will they send the stress "back to the tires" which are (should be) flexing to absorb some of the stress, or will the hangers and "solid sidewalls" send the stress "up to the frame" and cause additional, possibly hidden damage which could cause a catastrophic failure at some future date? My limited experience with Lippert and with Keystone is that they both "engineer" to a very light standard. By doing so, are the "upper components" engineered strong enough to take the additional stress of the extremely heavy sidewall tires and the "immovable" hangers without incurring damage?


Hi John,
I take no offense to your questions or points of view. It's all good.

The answer to your first question is Yes, I do think that the better, upgraded tire did transfer stress to the hangers and cause them to bend.

Using the word "engineer" in the same sentence with Keystone is an Oxy moron isn't it? You give them far, FAR more credit than I do. Once the hangers are corrected the force will be back on the tires. There is no avoiding it. I haven't done a force analysis of the pressure on the frame but that should be far more solid then the rubber tires are. It is built out of channel steel and has several steel cross members. I don't think the rubber tires would be much against that. However you do raise an interesting point.

I plan to avoid this all together by not doing it again. I am going to train myself not to crank the heck out of the camper like that unless it is an emergency. If or when I do have to do it I will make certain there is sand, dirt, hay, or something else on the road that will loosen the grip of the tires from the road surface. That is really all that is needed.

[hankaye]

Jager, Howdy;


I plan to avoid this all together by not doing it again. I am going to train myself not to crank the heck out of the camper like that unless it is an emergency. If or when I do have to do it I will make certain there is sand, dirt, hay, or something else on the road that will loosen the grip of the tires from the road surface. That is really all that is needed.

If you carry a bag of "Kitty Litter" you can give yourself a surface to work
with...

hankaye

[concours]

The flimsy hangers and shackles are what convinced me to upgrade to Mor/Ryde X Factor X members and wet bolts never regretted the expense

[Ken / Claudia]

I have seen towing guys spray the road surface with WD40, put oil or kitty litter or sand to side vehicle tires. Even water on the surface may help side tires and avoid damage? .

[jsmith948]

Jager, Howdy;



If you carry a bag of "Kitty Litter" you can give yourself a surface to work
with...

hankaye

Thanks Hank for posting the kitty litter idea. Lighter and cleaner than sand!

[Jager]

I like the kitty litter idea also. Good one.

I have never seen anyone use WD40 or oil. I would never pour oil on a road surface. However you have the right basic idea. If you are faced with tight turns that require your tires to slip on the ground or surface it will help a great deal if you can get something between the rubber and the road.

Concours - I looked into the MorRyde suspension that allows for up to 4" of travel. Is that what you installed? I went with the Dexter EZFlex suspension instead because I really don't want my camper to sit any higher (like 4") and I don't have 4" of spare room between the tops of my tires and the wheel wells. The cross brace system - I'm having something similar done just using some channel steel welded between the hangers. Should stiffen them up big time.

[mguay]

Just another thought.....I wouldn't be only worried about the suspension. My suspension hangers came from the dealer bent and no one would work with me for warranty. I fixed it and am pretty sure it won't happen again. Back on topic. At 3 yrs old I swapped the BlowMaxes for a set of LT's. 3 weeks later I had 2 cracked wheels! Check your wheels too!

[Jager]

mguay - do you have steel wheels? Where did they crack, in the spokes? How visible was the crack?

I have aluminum alloy wheels. I can't imagine what it would take to crack them. I guess it must be possible.

[Jay Pat]

I don't know if the following would help or not. Never tried it.
I would wet down the asphalt and tires with water to reduce the friction and hopefully, the tires would slip/skid, easier.
I hope it never happens.
Pat

[pjhansman]

If you carry a bag of "Kitty Litter" you can give yourself a surface to work
with...

hankaye

Finally....a good reason for hauling those annoying little critters on every trip!

J/K of course. Can't leave home without the family :D

But the kitty litter is a good suggestion.

[BOWWOW]

Kitty litter like it! I got snagged up like that in a Walmart parking lot and we used frisbees to skid my fusion around.

[hankaye]

BOWWOW, Howdy;

Kitty litter like it! I got snagged up like that in a Walmart parking lot and we used frisbees to skid my fusion around.

You just need to remember to keep track of the kid's fingers and the dog's
noses when you use the frisbees ... :rolleyes:

hankaye