Lost an axle

[LouSlugger]

Dropped my Fuzion off at dealer on way home from Michigan last month for some minor maintenance and repair -- none involving wheels or axles. Picked it up early Saturday morning and started home with it. Dealer is located immediately next to interstate. As I got onto entrance ramp I started hearing something metal bouncing on road. Checked mirrors and landing gear was fine. Best guess was the chain securing my extra propane tank had jostled loose somehow and was dragging. Whatever it was, I could not possibly pull over because the interstates that converge in downtown Louisville (three of them) are undergoing major construction associated with new Ohio River bridge. Only about 12 miles to my house and with no safe place to pull off, I continued on (not exceeding 60 mph). When I finally got to bottom of exit ramp from freeway I applied brakes (for first time since I had started), and the third (most rearward) axle broke loose on passenger side. That wheel swung around and by the time I stopped axle was at 45 degree angle to normal with significant body damage on both sides and underneath (caused by both wheels). Fast forward: tow truck driver got axle free and I pulled RV back to dealer on two axles (with tow truck following). Dealer will not accept responsibility because they did no work in that area. My position is that it was not broken when I originally dropped it off, they had it for three weeks and moved it at least 3 times, and it was broken when I picked it up. Still don't know root cause. Wondering if anyone else has experienced or heard of this type of failure. Whatever the outcome, I'm counting my blessings because it could have been much, much worse if it had failed at speed. Repair estimate is $2300.

[TLB]

Sorry to hear about the damage.
Did one of the spring bolts break?

[ri_truck_guy]

My FZ371 was damaged in a very similar way while in transit from the manufacturer to the dealer when a spring u-bolt failed. Mine escaped the body damage, mainly because the axle snapped back into one of the level-up jacks. They replaced everything underneath on mine before I took delivery, including two completely new axle assemblies.

[LouSlugger]

Don't know yet what failed. Dealer is supposed to try to figure it out and let me know -- although I won't necessarily accept their opinion. Thanks.

[hankaye]

LouSlugger, Howdy;

Might behoove you to ask the Service Mgr. how his worker-bees
re-position the RV's on the lot. if they use a tractor or skid steer
with the ball/king-pin receiver in the front that pivots the Rv's into
tight slots. Not when he's watching them, but, you know how those
high school kids can be ... maybe help save someone else from the
same damage...

hankaye

[Ken / Claudia]

I agree with Hankeye and really consider your insurance co. investigate since they would be on your side. Finding out how the axle broke or failed is the key. The dealer might be to willing to blame you for bad welds, skidding the tires while moving into/out of tight spots. etc.I would also see for myself how they move the RVs around the lot.

[Javi]

Sorry about your problems, but that's why we carry insurance I guess....

Who would you blame if it had happened 5 minutes before you dropped it off at the dealers?

[LouSlugger]

If it had happened 5 minutes before I dropped it at the dealer, of course I would not blame the dealer. They do use a tractor (as described in other posts above) to move RVs around the lot (which is often packed full) so will certainly keep that possibility in mind. Also, just as automobile mechanics have a duty to make sure a vehicle is safe to drive before they allow the customer to drive it off the lot, I think an RV dealer has the same duty. A simple visual inspection may very well have discovered this failure before I picked it up.
I am fully insured but shouldn't have to make an insurance claim (possibly affecting my rates) if a third party is at fault.
Thanks all.

[BirchyBoy]

Sorry to read about your mishap and I'm glad that it didn't get worse. I know it's bygones now, but if I was in your shoes, I would have found an exit to pull over at much sooner than 12 miles, unless there really isn't any in the area.

I think you're going to have a hard time getting the dealer to admit any fault. They likely move hundreds of units a year with the same tractor that they used for yours, and they didn't do any work around the axles. Good luck, though!

[2014301ktmhauler]

My 2014 FZ301 had the rear axle come loose on the passenger side . The perch slid back on the spring until the tire contacted the stair well for rear door. All of the smaller leaves were gone so I am not sure what happened first.
Same story, tow truck winched the axle back into place and I limped back to the dealer.

[bmach]

Why blame the dealer? This trailer is 7 yo sounds to me like something just failed. If it rained that afternoon and you had a roof leak, would you blame the dealer for that? How about on your way home and you get pulled over for a tail light out, blame the dealer also?

[Javi]

If it had happened 5 minutes before I dropped it at the dealer, of course I would not blame the dealer. They do use a tractor (as described in other posts above) to move RVs around the lot (which is often packed full) so will certainly keep that possibility in mind. Also, just as automobile mechanics have a duty to make sure a vehicle is safe to drive before they allow the customer to drive it off the lot, I think an RV dealer has the same duty. A simple visual inspection may very well have discovered this failure before I picked it up.
I am fully insured but shouldn't have to make an insurance claim (possibly affecting my rates) if a third party is at fault.
Thanks all.

I'm a bit touchy on the subject having been sued by a customer for a similar deal. I rebuilt his carburetor and did a tune-up on his motor.... three weeks later his transmission dropped a synchronizer and 4th gear.. Somehow he thought I should fix it for free because I had worked on his car. I easily won the case but it cost me plenty to defend myself.

[LouSlugger]

Sorry to read about your mishap and I'm glad that it didn't get worse. I know it's bygones now, but if I was in your shoes, I would have found an exit to pull over at much sooner than 12 miles, unless there really isn't any in the area.
There really was no safe place to pull over. But even if there had been, it was my application of the brakes which caused the axle to release. Had I decided to pull over on the interstate, I would have applied the brakes (except starting at a much faster speed than I was moving when I was rolling to a stop at a traffic signal). If the axle had broken loose then, the damage would have been much worse AND I would have found myself disabled in one of only two lanes of interstate traffic with a 65 mph speed limit. So in hindsight, I think it's fortunate I didn't apply the brakes before I did.

[bsmith0404]

Having worked as a mechanic for yrs I will say I disagree with your statement that a mechanic has the responsibility to make sure your car is safe to drive. The mechanic has the responsibility to perform the work you requested and to make sure it is done properly so your car is safe from the work they did. You have the responsibility to make sure your car is safe to drive. Yes a mechanic may look at and identify other issues to you, but it is not their responsibility to do so, or to identify every issue with your vehicle, or to.fix them before you drive away.

Glad you're safe and hope your repairs go well.

[LouSlugger]

Having worked as a mechanic for yrs I will say I disagree with your statement that a mechanic has the responsibility to make sure your car is safe to drive. The mechanic has the responsibility to perform the work you requested and to make sure it is done properly so your car is safe from the work they did. You have the responsibility to make sure your car is safe to drive. Yes a mechanic may look at and identify other issues to you, but it is not their responsibility to do so, or to identify every issue with your vehicle, or to.fix them before you drive away.

I appreciate your perspective as a mechanic, but the law in most states does impose that duty on mechanics -- they don't have to "identify every issue with your vehicle," but they can be held liable for safety issues which they knew or should have known existed through the exercise of reasonable care. So if part of my axle assembly was broken and parts were dangling onto the ground when they released the RV to me (which seems to be the case), I would argue they either knew or should have known of the condition and told me about it. Thanks.

[LouSlugger]

Why blame the dealer? This trailer is 7 yo sounds to me like something just failed. If it rained that afternoon and you had a roof leak, would you blame the dealer for that? How about on your way home and you get pulled over for a tail light out, blame the dealer also?

Sorry but that's nonsense. We aren't talking about a roof leak or an expired light bulb -- although if the roof leaked because the dealer busted a hole in the roof, or the bulb was out because the dealer crushed it with a hammer, then I would hold them responsible. There was a major mechanical failure that happened while the RV was in the exclusive possession and control of the dealer. The failure that led to the axle breaking loose did not happen while I was towing it, it happened at the dealer. As other posters have noted, they could have caused this failure while maneuvering it with their tractor (such as by pivoting at an extreme angle).

[bsmith0404]

I appreciate your perspective as a mechanic, but the law in most states does impose that duty on mechanics -- they don't have to "identify every issue with your vehicle," but they can be held liable for safety issues which they knew or should have known existed through the exercise of reasonable care. So if part of my axle assembly was broken and parts were dangling onto the ground when they released the RV to me (which seems to be the case), I would argue they either knew or should have known of the condition and told me about it. Thanks.

I was going off of you original post which stated you dropped it off for minor repairs none involving wheels or axles. Mechanics are not required to do a complete safety inspection on every part of your vehicle. Reasonably known would mean if in the line of performing requested repairs on your vehicle they should have noticed the condition, or if the condition was readily apparent that a trained eye should have seen under normal circumstances. You never stated what the minor repairs were so I'm assuming they were not up under the RV near the axles. If you didn't have any concern with the axles/suspension, the mechanic would not have a reason to inspect those items. A quick visual inspection of wheels/tires would be reasonable.

I do understand your frustration and I would probably be just as upset, but one thing I have learned over the years is that things break. There was always a point where everything worked perfectly......it was just before it broke and we don't always get a warning or signs of it happening.

[Javi]

Sorry but that's nonsense. We aren't talking about a roof leak or an expired light bulb -- although if the roof leaked because the dealer busted a hole in the roof, or the bulb was out because the dealer crushed it with a hammer, then I would hold them responsible. There was a major mechanical failure that happened while the RV was in the exclusive possession and control of the dealer. The failure that led to the axle breaking loose did not happen while I was towing it, it happened at the dealer. As other posters have noted, they could have caused this failure while maneuvering it with their tractor (such as by pivoting at an extreme angle).

Or it could simply have been the result of 7 years of towing and chose that moment to let go. As for being held responsible for inspecting every nook and cranny of the trailer for safety issues when you brought the trailer in with a specific list of problems to be fixed. If that list didn't include the running gear of the trailer then .... good luck with that one in court.

BTW I'm reasonably sure that in every state the operator of a vehicle has a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is safe to operate... Did you inspect the axles prior to pulling into the roadway, did you test the brakes, inspect the tires, check the light for proper operation ect.... ? Maybe if you had, you would not have had an issue on the road.

[LouSlugger]

My father used to say never argue with a fool because he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with his experience. I'll choose to follow his advice on this one and just let it go.

[bsmith0404]

My father used to say never argue with a fool because he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with his experience. I'll choose to follow his advice on this one and just let it go.

Trust me, we are not trying to argue with you or say that this was your fault, we are just playing devils advocate and saying it's not necessarily the dealers fault either. Could the damage have happened while on the lot and was it possible that they could have found or even caused the problem?....yes. Is it also possible that there wasn't anything at all detectable wrong while the RV was on the lot and it just broke after you drove away?...yes. Trying to blame the dealer for something that they did not work on that broke 12 miles down the road is going to be hard to prove. You stated that the axle broke loose when you applied the brake at 40ish mph. Could it be that a weld was starting to get stressed and the weight of a 12k lb RV trying to continue at 40 mph while the axle was trying to bring it to a stop was enough to finally get it to let loose? Did you do a tug test when you hooked up? If so, you had the brakes holding the axles in place with the truck trying to pull the trailer off of them. There are a number of things that could have contributed to this.

Having something like this happen and cause thousands of dollars worth of damage is an emotional situation and as humans go, we want someone to blame. In this case, I just don't think you have enough to fight the dealer with. My advice, file the claim with your insurance and let them investigate it. If they see any negligence that can be pointed at the dealer, they will take them to court to try to recoup their money. If you file yourself and end up losing in court, it'll just be salt in the wound.

On another note, thank you for sharing your story, I just added one more thing to my routine inspection list. I check the suspension prior to towing anyway, but now I'll be looking a little closer.

[Ram189]

How do you think the dealer broke the axle or hanger or whatever moving it around the lot.
Probably never got over 5 mph and most likely never moved more the 200 yards.

Just because they moved it last does not make them responsible for the entire well being of the trailer.

I feel for you but they are no more responsible than you are. Find out what happened to it before you start blaming people. Sounds like it is a fairly common occurance from the posts here.

[bmach]

You seem very sure that the dealer broke your trailer you even posted this,
"There was a major mechanical failure that happened while the RV was in the exclusive possession and control of the dealer. The failure that led to the axle breaking loose did not happen while I was towing it, it happened at the dealer."

What I want to know is, how do you know that it was broken at the dealer and if you knew they had broken it, why did you drive it?

[Javi]

Well this old fool thinks its sour grapes.

I'm sorry for his ill fortune, but call BS on blaming the dealer for not inspecting the running gear unless he asked them to do so.

Could the dealer have damaged the shackles when moving the trailer... sure... stranger things have happened....

However given the age of the trailer its more likely that metal fatigue is to blame.

[Ken / Claudia]

I will do a web site investigation on this. Looking at every part of the suspension, tires, brakes, axles, springs, mounting points, etc etc. look at condition, age, wear, rust, welds. Now maybe it could be determined what happen. Is it the fault of lippert, dexter, tires, dealer or owner. Thats why I would get my insurence invloved, Have the trailer fixed, and down the road I go and let them go after who if anyone bysides the owner is responsiable. Fighting this type of fight is to stressful, I pay someone to do it for me. #1 ins. agent #2 my civil lawyer. #2 takes years.

[Jager]

I don't think the dealer or mechanic is responsible to inspect everything and until I joined this forum I didn't know to check most of the things that I do now. I DO however agree very much that the dealer could have caused this damage. I just got back from a trip with my 5er in which I made the mistake of getting caught in a parking lot I shouldn't have been in. Rather than backing all the way out I decided to crank the camper around, skidding the tires and twisted the suspension hangers. Lucky because of what I have learned on this forum I did inspect the tires and suspension when I parked the unit on out site (about 1/2 mile from where I cranked the unit around). I noticed the suspension damage immediately. I didn't realize I was the one who caused it but the damage was clear.

The camper wasn't "broken" yet but the pressure and force on the suspension was gross. I knew that the suspension wasn't going to make it very far. I limped the unit (at 20 mph) to a repair location (~5 miles away) and am having it fixed there. I have seen many dealers using fork lifts crank the heck out of units on their lots parking them. The distance the campers travel isn't 40' but that isn't what matters.

YES, the dealer could have ABSOLUTELY caused the problem if he moved the unit in such a manner. Proving this could be extremely hard. If the OP knew for sure his spring hangers weren't damaged when he dropped it off and then inspected them before he left the dealer . . . well then the dealer was clearly responsible.

I am VERY grateful to the people on this forum for all the help and education I have gained by reading all these posts. I could have very easily become the next static with a wrecked trailer or worse.

EVERYONE, Inspect your tires and suspension on a regular basis. Learn what to look for. Learn the do's and don'ts of moving the trailer.

To the OP:
If you want to see exactly what I'm talking about look in the "Repairs" section of this forum under "Bent Suspension". This is my mistake.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18707

[theeyres]

I have to agree that the repair shop is not responsible for something they were not asked to check. Seen legal cases like this over and over and the dealer/repair shop always wins. Especially on older units--and they will consider 7 yo an older unit.

Also, if it gets to legal issues, be assured that you signed something, somewhere that releases them from responsibility. The lawyers that draw up those contracts, repair orders, etc., have it tied up every which way. Have you read the fine print?

Let your insurance company handle it. If they want to fight it, let them. But I'll bet you a dollar they won't.

[LouSlugger]

Meeting with GM of dealership later this week. Will post regarding ultimate outcome after it's all settled. Thanks for the input.

[Adventurider]

In this situation, you're asking a mechanic to perform up to and including an NDI inspection on metal/welds. Not very realistic. You have a 7 year old unit that was fatigued, timing really sucked, but it sounds like it was a ticking bomb.

BTW, if you REALLY want to let it go, I would leave out the name calling and just say nothing....just sayin


My father used to say never argue with a fool because he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with his experience. I'll choose to follow his advice on this one and just let it go.

[Desert185]

I would suspect that there is a clause in the maintenance contract absolving the facility of any failures unrelated to the work being performed.

[abneynormal]

I blew 3 tires but never the axle. ok heres the money round. if you plan on using your rv for years and miles you need to keep a check on u bolts. hubs, lug nuts. rims (yes I had one of them leak air) ,bearings, and brakes. now the suspension WILL need wet bolting. the factory crap wears out in 3-6000 miles. they now have never lube bushings I bet they are as useless as their never lube bearings. there is no substitute for grease on moving parts. :banghead:

[1bacamaro]

I am a mechanic for a living and deal with this everyday. I just had a oil change here and now my transmission is slipping. What did you do to my car! Lol I am so sick of people trying to pass the buck onto the mechanic. I had a keystone cougar and I inspected the whole trailer every time I went on a trip. During one of my inspections I noticed both axle shackles had nuts missing off the bolts. You can't just hook up and go and think everything is good. Before you hook up it's your job to do a safety inspection. I always check things like tires,lug nuts,lights,brakes and look under the rv for axle problems. Sorry but your fault not the shops.

[rjsurfer]

I lost the forward axle on my Cougar not too long after purchase. Similar to what happened to you except I was lucky I was able to pull into a small gas station.

What I eventually found was loose bolts on the axle U bolts allowing the axle to shift. When I went to check the other U bolts they were all a little loose. I now check them all before every trip and don't you know I occasionally catch another starting to loosen up.

VERY common problem.....in have read dozens of posts on this very same thing...

Ron W.

[LouSlugger]

In the end, the dealership would not accept responsibility for this incident. They took the position that they did not perform any work on the axle/suspension system, were not aware of anything they did to damage it, and had no duty to inspect before releasing it to me.
Fortunately, it was covered by my insurance.
On the bright side, I have a brand new axle and related components and they did a fantastic job of replacing and painting the side skirts/paneling. Looks brand new.
I had already planned to sell and downsize before this happened and am now able to list it.
thanks again to those who joined in the discussion.

[SAABDOCTOR]

HERE is a little bit of advice my flight instructor told me "Prefflight the plane like your life depended on it because chances are it will" Do that when you hook up your trailer too!:cool:

[buzzcop63]

When I got my new 2012 Cougar TT home one of the first things I did was get on my Creeper and slide under the trailer and look over all the axel fittings and the entire underneath of the trailer. In the past while being an avid motorcyclist I used to put caulk (White) on exposed nuts and thread making sure that a dab was on both the thread and nut so that at a glance I could tell if the nut was working loose. Found a whole lot of threaded nuts on bolts under our trailer and now each one has a speck of white on them.

[hankaye]

buzzcop63, Howdy;

When I worked on aircraft we used a product like this;
http://www.durablesupply.com/dytaprtoma.html#.VIeLFntXmSo
It would be applied by the QA Inspector after witnessing the torque
or whatever the "Book" called for.
Extremely cheap for the piece of mind it provides.

hankaye