Are RV Techs paid by the book?

[gearhead]

I took the new Montana back to the dealer for the 2nd time with refrigerator throwing E3 codes. That's a whole 'nother story!
So I'm talking to the service writer at this huge dealership, just making small talk about them being busy. He said it was incredibly busy, that they are now booking service for September. Everyone is busy in Houston with the oil economy booming. I noticed a couple of "suits" in the service managers office, so I thought here's my chance to give them my elderly sage advice on everything they doing wrong here. I knock on the door,,,so you guys are busy? Oh yes we are swamped. Well that is good sort of. But, you know where I worked for 35 years when we got swamped the solution was fairly simple. You walk out in the shop and ask for volunteers to work until 11pm tonight and who wants to work Saturday and/or Sunday? No volunteers? OK, Bill and Joe you stay until midnight in the body shop. John you stay on that electrical problem. George you are working this weekend. The "suits" looked at me like I was from outer space. "Oh we're already working their tails off. If you know any certified RV Techs we will hire all of them". So you're working until midnight and weekends? "No".
So bottom line, do RV service techs usually work from a book rate for a job like automotive techs? Or, do they get paid by the hour? Either way if they worked extra they would make more money, right?

[Brantlaker]

The ones that I know work by the Hour. When I ran my Auto service department I paid a percentage of the labor on the job 25,30,35 % and they Worked their tails off. Comebacks were given to another tech to repair and take it from the first techs pay.

[gearhead]

I really don't get it. We had a large workforce and fair percentage were overtime hogs. Their work records for a year would get audited because they made more than their managers. They always made more than their foremen and supervisors! You can't tell me that some of those techs wouldn't jump on a few overtime nights and a weekend occasionally. I can't count how many days straight I worked 16 hours a day for 7 days a week.

[SAABDOCTOR]

so were is that flat rate book? here in Connecticut the customer has the right to see the guide the shop is using. that is law. so i asked three rv centers that posted all work billed @$120/hour by the flat rate book. so I asked to see it... Ohboy what book?:eek:

[Randy_K]

Not everyone wants to work OT. If you have to work OT you are living above your means. Live to work or work to live, choice is simple for me.

[gearhead]

You have to work overtime, not because you want to. Not because you are living above your means. You are told to work overtime. And you better be there. And it's a union plant.
I have never heard of but one person quitting because they had to work overtime. He opened his own business and planned to quit anyway. The turnover was almost zero.
That is out of a workforce that was at one time 1,200 folks. Included all crafts...welders, pipefitters, electricians, machinists, etc.
If it was a big enough issue the managers and engineers were right there with us.

[Randy_K]

You have to work overtime, not because you want to. Not because you are living above your means. You are told to work overtime. And you better be there. And it's a union plant.
I have never heard of but one person quitting because they had to work overtime. He opened his own business and planned to quit anyway. The turnover was almost zero.
That is out of a workforce that was at one time 1,200 folks. Included all crafts...welders, pipefitters, electricians, machinists, etc.
If it was a big enough issue the managers and engineers were right there with us.

I learn everyday. :)

I was once TOLD I had to work overtime. I packed up my stuff and went home. Boss did not talk to me for weeks. When he finally did , I told him you can ask me to do something but try to tell me !!! I did not need that job that bad. I have helped out and worked overtime but its always my choice and only if im not going Camping.

[gearhead]

I think it gets down to how these RV shops are managed. It's no skin off the nose of management if the wait time for repairs is 6 weeks. Unlike my work history where my customers were internal, and I was held accountable, RV shops apparently really don't care if the customers are frustrated. What recourse do the customers have?
Randy that's a pretty sweet deal you had there. Refuse to work overtime and the boss won't talk to you. My bosses never had a problem so big that shut them up. LOL

[Javi]

I'm 65 and I work every overtime hour I can get... there is no such thing as too much money. My normal work week is 50 hours and I'll take any more they want to throw at me.

I don't live over my means... but in 5 years I will pull the plug and all that overtime will come in handy.

[gearhead]

Heck yeah Javi, take it when you can. One year after I retired I was back working for them as a contractor in south Texas. Wasn't unusual to put in 80 hours a week. Not fun in 112 degree weather and no shade trees. I'm not complaining, it was all play money and I bought some toys. I'm about "done" now though.
I don't know too many folks that work a 40 hour week.
Now if we could get those RV shops to work a few extra hours in the summertime.

[Brantlaker]

The shop that I bring my 5er for service works 8-4:30 with 30min for lunch Monday-Friday, the shop is closed on Saturday and Parts is only open till 12. If I were 15 years younger I would get a job at a RV Dealer and make a lot of money.I am seriously thinking about talking to the owner about consulting for him and getting a percentage of the profit over what they made the previous year. They must make a lot on the sale and don't need the back end.

[bsmith0404]

Back in a former life I loved overtime, worked the regular hours so I could get to the time and a half for some real coin. For the last 24 plus years I've worked countless hours of overtime for free. why? The mission has to get done, Uncle Sam says we are on duty 24/7/365 son there's no such thing as overtime. Boy would I love to get some back pay for all of that, especially the years in Afghanistan where the average day was 14-16 hours and we worked 7 days a week. I did get a half day off on Thanksgiving and Christmas :)

[gearhead]

Gary I don't see why the dealerships don't pick off that low hanging fruit. If they keep just 50% of the labor, and they have a margin on parts, that should be some serious money. There could be a supervision issue after normal hours, but when I was salaried I spent a bunch of time at work off hours supporting craftsmen. My experience was in a very large refinery and it was understood that we operated 24/7/365. I think it should be understood that RV shops get busy in summertime.
Brent: were you working as a contractor or in uniform? Thanks for your service.

[JRTJH]

I think a lot of the "attitude" about overtime comes from the mentality of the worker. If the worker is there for the paycheck, then when they get what they "think they need", they are ready to head home. When they buy into the concept that "the company makes money or my job is gone" they often think things from a different perspective. The more money the company makes the more secure my job......

It really boils down to whether the worker and the company treat the job/employee and his position as a "valuable profession" or if the mindset is that he/she is "a dispensable commodity working in a job".

Thankfully, there are people who consider their link to the company's profit as the reason they have their family security. Without that feeling of loyalty and belonging, they just "come and go with their lunchbox."

It's a part of that concept called "work ethic."

[Ram189]

The times they are a changing.

The reason no one "makes" their guys work overtime or pushes them is we cannot find techs worth a damn anywhere.

If you are going to lose someone it will take you months to find a good one.

Techs used to be a dime a dozen in the car business and the RV business. The problem now a days is no one teaches VoTech anymore.

With all the cuts in school budgets and the cost of insurance one of the first things cut was shop class. Back in the day you took all the guys who hated school and put them in shop class and taught them a skill. Now there are no skills taught in school except maybe computer tech stuff.

In the county I live in 1 school has a VoTech class and the kids have to get bused to that school from theirs or get there themselves.

I run a large GM dealer in DC metro area and techs are our number one problem.

[gearhead]

John I watched my employers culture evolve for 35 years. Not that it was bad in 1974, but it progressed to where we treated each other with respect and we were on the same team, just with different roles. Of course some folks liked being rebellious, but I think there is always that percent.
I got a different vibe at my RV dealer. Maybe that the techs were just "them".
RAM...I've been singing that song for a long time. Our education system is in dire straits regarding vocational education. I'm just a couple hours away from a BS in Tech/Voc Education. I thought at one time I would enjoy that after retirement. But I haven't pursued it further. We need to do something soon.
RAM would you offer after hours work at your dealership to those that wanted it?

[Randy_K]

The overtime thing could be a thread on its own.


My Father worked lots of ot. Planed to do all the things he gave up working so much when he retired. Retired at 62, sick at 63 and dead at 64. Did not work out so well for him, my mom has been alone for 13 years now.

Unfortunately I have worked with more guys who have died within 5 years of retiring then not. Its a personal choice I guess. I am 52 and a long way from retiring , but I would not change any of the places I have been or things I have done for a few more bucks in the bank. You never know when your number is up.

BTW The job I refused to work OT when I was told I had to.... I have been there 19 years now. I just let them know it was a two way street when I first started there.

[Ram189]

We have Service advisors on duty 13 hours a day, 6 am - 7 pm Monday - Friday and Saturday 8 - 4.

Techs can come and go as early or late as they want. I have 2 guys that turn 75 flat rate hours/FRH (booktime) a week and 10 that shuffle along at 30 - 40 FRH and for the life of me can't get them to come in on their regular schedule of 8 - 5.
Can you guys the hours the 2 guys turning 75 hours work??

There is no urgency to anyone anymore. They all feel entitled to do what they want. There is no discipline or need to advance or better themselves. The slackers are usually the first ones inline looking for a raise also.

I can't really do anything about them because I don't have bodies to replace them. The people that do come in to interview have 2 years Jiffy Lube experience and can barely change a light bulb, let alone teardown a motor to put a timing chain in it.

Supply and demand is the problem in the mechanical repair field right now. I would kill for 5 of the guys I used to manage in the late 90s. They are all retired now in their 60s and 70s but they were the best group of techs I ever had. Bust butt 12 hours a day and show up the next morning hungry for more.

[bmach]

Why should RV service centers extend their hours? They have a captive clientele who can not go to the local garage to get the work done. If they extended their hours and paided out OT, that would cut into their profit. For us, it would be nice but for them, not extending hours is smart business.

[bsmith0404]

Brent: were you working as a contractor or in uniform? Thanks for your service.

Been wearing the uniform for 24+ years. Getting ready to take it off for good in December. Thank you and you're welcome.

[theeyres]

I learn everyday. :)

I was once TOLD I had to work overtime. I packed up my stuff and went home. Boss did not talk to me for weeks. When he finally did , I told him you can ask me to do something but try to tell me !!! I did not need that job that bad. I have helped out and worked overtime but its always my choice and only if im not going Camping.

Good thing you quit because in my business you would not have lasted long. It's sort of funny but the customer really did come first, even if that meant we all had to pitch in and get the job done in a timely manner.

[Randy_K]

Good thing you quit because in my business you would not have lasted long. It's sort of funny but the customer really did come first, even if that meant we all had to pitch in and get the job done in a timely manner.

I never quit. I have been there 19 years now, 3 different owners and promoted twice. I have never told anyone to do OT. I treat people as equals , and ask if they can help out when needed. Never take advantage of them. IT is a job, not their life.

Have a look at todays divorce rate.< increasing yearly as their debt does > Perhaps if some people spent more time with their wife and kids , they would still have them to come home too.



According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
•The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
•The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
•The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

[Javi]

I never quit. I have been there 19 years now, 3 different owners and promoted twice. I have never told anyone to do OT. I treat people as equals , and ask if they can help out when needed. Never take advantage of them. IT is a job, not their life.

Have a look at todays divorce rate.< increasing yearly as their debt does > Perhaps if some people spent more time with their wife and kids , they would still have them to come home too.



According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
•The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
•The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
•The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%



Married to the same woman... 42 years and work OT every chance I get.. she love it :D

[Randy_K]

Married to the same woman... 42 years and work OT every chance I get.. she love it :D

You are one lucky guy. :)

[JRTJH]

You are one lucky guy. :)

Many of us are "lucky guys" as well. The first 26 years of my "life" was in the military. I was home when I got a chance, but standing alert, ready to fly, fixing jets, TDY's to "God-forsaken places" and then, when home, marching in parades to carry the flag to show the "civilians we care"....

Then, after retirement, in a moment of "uncertainty" I decided to go into healthcare. Between college getting a master's in nursing, then a doctorate in nursing, the "school years" made for some "sketchy" home time. I never left the hospital or my clinic "on time" and I was "forever being called at "O-dark-30" to head to the ER to see one of my patients. None of them were ever told, "No, I'd be on overtime"......

And through it all, one great daughter who has her "head screwed on straight" and one super son, adopted in Korea while I was there, "away from my family". Married to the same wonderful wife for 46 years and planning our 50th with vigor. Oh, by the way, she put her career on hold while I was in the military, and afterward, became a hospital administrator and CFO for a major healthcare organization before she retired. We both stay busy volunteering in healthcare and other community projects, many that require "overtime" to keep them running smoothly.

So, the divorce rate statistics, to me, mean more "attitude" from people who view things as "disposable" rather than trying to work to fix them. Heck, maybe they weren't interested in "working overtime" to fix their marriage either..... Hmmmmmmm

[Randy_K]

Many of us are "lucky guys" as well. The first 26 years of my "life" was in the military. I was home when I got a chance, but standing alert, ready to fly, fixing jets, TDY's to "God-forsaken places" and then, when home, marching in parades to carry the flag to show the "civilians we care"....

Then, after retirement, in a moment of "uncertainty" I decided to go into healthcare. Between college getting a master's in nursing, then a doctorate in nursing, the "school years" made for some "sketchy" home time. I never left the hospital or my clinic "on time" and I was "forever being called at "O-dark-30" to head to the ER to see one of my patients. None of them were ever told, "No, I'd be on overtime"......

And through it all, one great daughter who has her "head screwed on straight" and one super son, adopted in Korea while I was there, "away from my family". Married to the same wonderful wife for 46 years and planning our 50th with vigor. Oh, by the way, she put her career on hold while I was in the military, and afterward, became a hospital administrator and CFO for a major healthcare organization before she retired. We both stay busy volunteering in healthcare and other community projects, many that require "overtime" to keep them running smoothly.

So, the divorce rate statistics, to me, mean more "attitude" from people who view things as "disposable" rather than trying to work to fix them. Heck, maybe they weren't interested in "working overtime" to fix their marriage either..... Hmmmmmmm

I would say that as a group we may be better then average. If people want to work OT its up to them, I don't like to judge. I just know too many people who died young or came home unexpected to find their neighbour enjoyed them being at work all the time as much as the lonely / bored <ex> wife.

< as a Canadian I have to say I am very thankful to those in the USA military as well as the Canadian. I believe those who served have a better appreciation for the place we live>

[Trent McCain]

I can see both sides to this as I own / operate a small trucking company. First and foremost, nobody works for me....they work with me. There is no such thing as overtime. There are many times we are detained and aren't paid, but that's just the way it is. We try and run 5 days a week usually 8-12 hr days. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. I don't mind running a load on Saturday mornings if I can make a little bonus for the week. I never volunteer my drivers or contractors. I figure we work more hours by Wed than the average person does by Fri, so I always ask before booking extra loads. Often running a Sat is an easy to make up a load we might have missed during the week (I guess that could be considered our OT). Some of my guys love the opportunity to make a little extra, others are happy working their 5 days, but it's their choice. Owning the business, I have more at stake, so I run extra when I can as I don't want to be in debt the rest of my life. I'll enjoy life in afew years when I'm debt free in my early 40's. Untill then, I'll work a little extra to accomplish my goal. From a consumer standpoint, I have two shops that service my equipment. A local independent and a "corporate engine manufacturer." I have good service from both. My independent goes the extra mile to get my trucks in and out fast. If that means staying 30min or later to complete the job so I can have the truck that night....they do it. The "corporate" shop runs 8-5. I put in the extra time for my customers and I appreciate it when a service facility does too. I'm probably comparing apples to oranges as my trucks are a business tool used to generate revenue, whereas our RV's aren't.

[Javi]

Here in Texas an employer can require you to work over 40 hours per week at any time and refusal to do so is subject to termination.

I've fired employees for refusing to work overtime even though they are aware that the job often requires that they do so. I've also excused them from the same on a case by case basis, when someone else was willing to fill-in and I've even done the filling-in myself when necessary.

When I managed the fertilizer terminals it was not uncommon for me and selected employees to work around the clock when unloading barges as demurrage charges wait for no man. It was an accepted part of the job just as 18 to 20 hour days were expected during "season" as the applicator's also wait for no man and the trucks must be loaded...

The 50 hour work week I have now is semi-retirement for me and the extra time and pay is my play money.

[SAABDOCTOR]

So after 3 pages of work ethics wives ex wives girlfriends over time quitiing working and a genuine good read whatever happened to the original question about flat rate?:D yep i worked all the ot icould get then went into my own shop worked hard so my (ex)wife could have all the fun while i was gone!:banghead: sold the biz and now close to retirement only a little ot then home with the DW.

[Javi]

So after 3 pages of work ethics wives ex wives girlfriends over time quitiing working and a genuine good read whatever happened to the original question about flat rate?:D yep i worked all the ot icould get then went into my own shop worked hard so my (ex)wife could have all the fun while i was gone!:banghead: sold the biz and now close to retirement only a little ot then home with the DW.

Here's a link http://www.spader.com/images/data/files/Sample%20RV%20FR14s.pdf

[chuckster57]

We are paid hourly were I work. I have worked OT to make sure a customer got a proper walk through.

In a previous life ( prison guard) OT and missed holidays and child's activities was the norm for 25+ yrs.

[Randy_K]

This has been a good read with respectful comments on both sides.

Enjoyed :)


On forced OT I have seen it. My DW has had it at her shop. In the end the hours to complete the work usually ends up more and the company pays more for it as well. Having pissed off works never improves the bottom line.

In a big union shop I worked in many years ago , a little "mistake" would cost the employer thousands of dollars in rework. Sometimes it was a true error and sometimes not, better to work as a team. It's like making the sever that is alone with your food mad at you,,, do you want to take the chance ?:banghead:

[SAABDOCTOR]

well that is the most generic flat rate book i have ever seen! i'll bet keystone doesn't use that one for warranty work:D good read!! thanks

[pakuma]

As a retired Chrysler Service Manager I found that my techs loved to work the extra hours available. We were paid by the flat rate book, the problem that came up, being in California, we had to pay overtime calculated from the flat rate. Of course figuring out the formula was a nightmare, so I stopped overtime and hired more techs, and trying to find qualified people was another issue.