Loose Equipment

[Rick G]

I'm hoping someone can offer some insight as to which hitch I should purchase or offer ideas as to why my current hitch hardware continues to loosen.

Oct '12 we purchased a 2006 KZ JAG JB29 from a private individual and a e2 1,000 lb. round bar hitch from a dealer, which they installed. The KZ had a dry weight of 5,000 lbs and was approximately 30' long. The mounting brackets on the frame and "L" brackets loosened during every trip.

Oct '13 we purchased a 2014 Outback 298RE, which is 35' long, has a dry tongue weight of 925 lbs, and overall weight of 7,605 lbs. The dealer switched the hitch and told us the current e2 hitch would work fine, we informed them of the previous problems, they said the hitch wasn't installed properly from the previous dealer. We traveled about 100 miles home and again the mounting brackets on the frame moved as did the "L" brackets, everything was loose. I tightened everything again for the next trip, same thing upon arrival of destination, this has happened every time we pulled (6 times). I contacted the manufacturer, Fastway/Progress Mfg they said hitch was big enough and recommended Equalizer. The Equalizer uses the same type of mounting brackets so I'm really hesitant to purchase the type of brackets. Any ideas?

I looked at the Reese/Drawtite 1,200 and 1,400 lbs hitches, but they have bolt on cams for sway control and I'm concerned that drilling into the TT frame will void the warranty. Ideas?

[hankpage]

I my opinion if the bolts have been tightened and loosened that many times they are stretched and should be replaced. Get new nuts, bolts and lock washers of the proper grade (most likely grade 8 check with hitch mfg.) and tighten them to the correct torque for that grade of bolt. They should not loosen. JM2¢, Hank

[Rick G]

After re-reading my message after I had already sent it I noticed that I had written that Fastway/Progress Mfg said it (the hitch) was a big enough, I should have wrote "they said it wasn't big enough" and I should purchase the 1,200 lb or 1,400 lb Equalizer. I'm afraid that the bolts and nuts will loosen just the same with the Equalizer since its the same type of equipment. Fastway did provide a new "L" bracket with bolts for one side because I twisted of the 1/2" bolt trying to tighten it.

[Ken / Claudia]

I have the pro series WD hitch and drilled 4 holes thru the frame to hold on the snap up bracket and left the set screws on them, now nothing there will get loose. My brackets had the holes in them for drilling thru the frame. I doubt that they would come off but, looking at them I could see that they might slide with enough pressure caused by sway or panic stop. Did I void a warrenty, who knows, I do not care about that.

[Fixjet]

I have been using the Equal-i-zer 10k & 14k for 12 years and never had a L bracket loosen up. It's a very simple system, properly I stalled it should work great for years.

[Rick G]

Thank you all for the input. Hank, I'll be buying new equipment probably 14K so all hardware will be new. I'll be buying a new receiver too since my current one is rated at 1,000/10,000. As for the Pro series from Reese, is that type of hitch difficult to hook up meaning do you have to have everything lined-up when straight-on when hitching, others have mentioned difficulties when hitching if not in a straight line.

[hankpage]

Thank you all for the input. Hank, I'll be buying new equipment probably 14K so all hardware will be new. I'll be buying a new receiver too since my current one is rated at 1,000/10,000. As for the Pro series from Reese, is that type of hitch difficult to hook up meaning do you have to have everything lined-up when straight-on when hitching, others have mentioned difficulties when hitching if not in a straight line.

Rick, I haven't owned a TT in about 20 years, so what I know about towing them is lost somewhere in the deep recesses of my brain. You don't give any info on your TV but the ratings you are giving may be for without weight distribution hitch. The receiver you have may be sufficient when using WDH. Like I said, my knowledge on this is a little rusty so hopefully some TT owners can give better advice. Good luck, your concerns about safety have you on the right track but a dealers advice http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=251&pictureid=1116 can be biased by greed and it is hard to find one you can trust. JM2¢, Hank

[Rick G]

Thanks Hank, my TV is a 2004 Dodge 3500 dually, 5.9 HO diesel, Quad Cab, 8' bed.

[hankpage]

From Dodge truck builder website for '04 3500:

The recommended tongue weight is between 10 percent and 15 percent of the gross trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (the bumper ball) is limited to 500 pounds, and Class IV (the receiver hitch) to 1,200 pounds. Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded.


That is with WDH. Not sure if that helps?????

[Rick G]

Thanks Hank, I really appreciate the help. I recently bought the TV (3/1/14) just to tow the TT and because it had the HO diesel with only 41,500 actual miles on it.

A couple weeks ago I went by the local Dodge dealer and asked if they could tell from the VIN what the trk had in terms of receiver capability, they said the VIN wouldn't identify the hitch, but they were able to print a copy of the window sticker components from back then and it showed the hitch rating at 1,000/10,000.

The gross front axle weight rating of my TV is 4,740 lbs and the GAWR of the rear axle is 9,350 lbs with the overall Gross Vehicle Weight Rating at 11,500 lbs.

I attached a pic of the specs for my TT, it shows the tongue weight at 925 lbs and the weight of the TT itself at 7,605 lbs along with a carrying capacity of 1,395 lbs. Based on the calculations if I'm calculating correctly the tongue weight dry is 12% of the overall trailer weight. I was then considering the propane, battery, hitch and cargo which adds 390 lbs to the 925 this equals 1,315 lbs or 17% of the overall TT weight.

I wonder, should I be considering the empty TT weight plus carrying capacity then divide by the tongue weight; if so, this looks much better at 15%.

[SGardiner]

We have used the equalizer hitch for two years. No issue with the L brackets moving or becoming loose.

[Rick G]

Thanks for the reply, it's great to hear that your equipment hasn't loosened. :)

Maybe it's just what Hank mentioned in the beginning threads, once the nuts and bolts are tightened so many times they need to be replaced. Last fall I began towing the TT with my 2007 Ram 1500 4 X 4, it was hard on it especially since its towing capacity was rated at 8,200#'s, we had a considerable amount of sway even with the e2 round bar hitch in place so maybe I weakened the equipment.

[audio1der]

Thank you all for the input. Hank, I'll be buying new equipment probably 14K so all hardware will be new. I'll be buying a new receiver too since my current one is rated at 1,000/10,000. As for the Pro series from Reese, is that type of hitch difficult to hook up meaning do you have to have everything lined-up when straight-on when hitching, others have mentioned difficulties when hitching if not in a straight line.

Sounds like you have sorted out.
The Reese DCSC setup does NOT require you to hitch up straight on. It's a little easier, but not much different. It also takes some careful calculation and setup to ensure it's 100% perfect, but is a great system once you have it dialed in.

[Rick G]

Hi Audio1der, thanks for trying to help me out, but just yesterday I ordered a Class V receiver and today a 14K Equalizer hitch; I'm going to give Progress Mfg another try. I really was considering buying the Reese DCSC but I was concerned about mounting the sway control brackets to the frame. I had contacted Keystone RV about 2 months ago and asked about drilling holes in the frame for mounting brackets or welding a bracket to the frame, they told me it would compromise the warranty so I felt that I had no other option other than a bolt on system (Equalizer). Again thanks :)

[Ken / Claudia]

The dealer drilled 6 holes into my frame to mount the anti sway bar mount. Keystone drilled afew in it to where the e braker controller is and some wires. So I guess keystone, the dealer and myself may have voided the warrenty on the lippert frame? Might need a lawyer to figure it out.

[Rick G]

I guess there isn't a problem unless there's a failure of the equipment, then it will need to be sorted out. :)

[JRTJH]

I've never heard of anyone having a warranty issue refused for "properly installing a safe/adequate hitch assembly" to their RV. It's pretty much an understood that you can't "push the darn thing" so a hitch is a requirement.

Now, if there were an issue caused by the drilled holes, that might well be something to take up with the installer, not with Keystone.

[Rick G]

I understand, but our Keystone TT dealer here in Illinois where we bought trlr at said that we would void the warranty on the frame if we drilled holes in it, even for sway or WD brackets. I thought well I can't pull a 35' trlr without sway control so we had to go with bolt on equipment.

All this communication started because the e2 SC WD hitch that we had on a previous TT the nuts and bolts loosened during every trip. When we bought the Outback the dealer switched the e2 to the new TT, we told them about the loosening problems they said the previous dealer didn't install properly. We pulled new TT home (100 miles) and when we got home all hardware was loose again. We called dealer about problem and asked if they could fasten brackets to frame by weld or drill and bolt, they said no because it would void warranty on frame.

After I posted this morning I called Keystone tech and specs support and asked again about drill and bolt of SC, they said the frame warranty is 2 years so if brackets are drilled and bolted on then I void the frame warranty. Since I don't have $37K to throw out the window for a new TT if the frame fails after a dealer or I drilled it I'll have to stay with bolt around frame brackets. Folks may think I'm nuts, maybe call Keystone RV's 800# and confirm because I'm tired of dealing with loose equipment after every trip. :)

[Ken / Claudia]

I believe the brackets could come off or slide, not saying they will, just could and in my case they are made to bolt on. During a violent incident like jack knife, panic stop, sway or just get loose and slide. If they slide or come off at that time would that add to the loss of control of the TV etc. I think it would. So welding or bolting would prevent that. I think the good news is keystone and the dealer in this case is telling you not to weld or drill. If they do fail and I hope they do not, you might have a strong case against them if bolting or welding would not have allowed a failure.

[Rick G]

Thanks Ken for the input, we were looking at 5th wheels because we're so tired of messing with the brackets. We decided to give the bolt around brackets one more try because we really like our TT, it works great for us (wife and pups). If the new Equalizer brackets loosen we'll be moving to a 5th wheel.

[Javi]

Almost every TT you see on the road has holes drilled in the frame for hitch attachments of one kind or another and in the 40 odd years I've been around the world of trailers I've never seen or heard of a frame warranty being voided because of it. If that were the case the hitch design would have been changed years ago.

[Rick G]

Yesterday when I was talking to Keystone tech support I tried to get them to say what they would recommend, all they would say is "we won't recommend a hitch" the gal did say they use Reese products on some of their 5th wheel hitches, but nothing on the TT's. If someone has a direct communication with Keystone please drop a word for us. Thanks

[JRTJH]

Yesterday when I was talking to Keystone tech support I tried to get them to say what they would recommend, all they would say is "we won't recommend a hitch" the gal did say they use Reese products on some of their 5th wheel hitches, but nothing on the TT's. If someone has a direct communication with Keystone please drop a word for us. Thanks

You won't get Keystone to commit to any specific hitch brand. They aren't in the hitch business. If someone in their CS department told you to "get a Reese" and if anything should happen...... They also won't tell you that your warranty remains valid if you drill holes, (sure as heck, someone will come in with a "swiss cheese tongue" filled with hundreds of holes saying, "But you told me I could drill holes....."

They, like any company, take the "neutral road" and won't tell you what you can/can't do with regards to accessories. That's not their business model. They do leave it up to the dealership to help you make those decisions.

If you are buying from a dealership with "bolt on hitches" they will tell you, "Holes void your warranty" If you're buying from a dealership with "drilled on hitches," you won't hear those words.....

As stated, In all my years of being around travel trailers, I have yet to see one with a sway bar that wasn't attached to a tongue plate that was clamped on (without drilled holes). They ALL are either welded or drilled and screwed to the tongue. I've never heard of a warranty refusal because of the holes......

And, if you care to take a peek under your RV, you'll find at least 60 (or more) holes in the frame that were drilled into it when the factory installed the coroplast, gas line, front and rear scissors jacks, step assembly (the list goes on and on).....

It really comes down to whether you want to deal with the "slipping hitch brackets" or if you want to resolve your problem... Nobody on this forum can decide what you do, but if hitches were counted, you'll probably find that 50% are bolted and 50% are drilled. None of the membership has ever reported a warranty refusal based on a drilled hole and "TRUST ME" if it had happened, it would definitely make its way to our pages in record time.

Our record for hearing about the negatives from Keystone is "legendary" http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/angry/swearing-smiley.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

[Rick G]

Thanks JRTJH, I just got off the phone with Javi and we've got this thing figured out, I really appreciate all the help and experience you guys have provided. I'm sure glad I joined this forum, a great group of people. "bouncey::D

Also, special thanks to Javi for explaining things more in-depth, I learned at least one extremely important, towing speed, pay attention.

I have to go mow so I'll catch later. Thanks :D