Sale Price verses MSRP

[Bob Vaughn]

My recent bad experience with Lazy Days makes me wonder at what point does Sale Price come into play when making a rv purchase? :mad:

[Ruffus]

Hey Bob
I bought my Copper Canyon at Camping World in St. Augutine while living in Sebastian FL last year. About 180 miles from you but a great service department and sales staff. We found the model we wanted, got their best price then went to the Super RV show in Tampa last January. We found the model there on dispaly and got a price (show price) from the Rep. When I told him that I could do better with the dealer price he came down even more. Then I called the salesman at the dealer and offered him $6,000 under the show price from th Rep and they took it. All in all we bought it for 35% under MSRP. We probably could have done a little better than that but it was the last unit of that model left in the State so we settled.
As for service, you can't ask for a better service department, their service director Ed Woods will jump through hoops to make sure your happy as long as you treat them with a little respect and don't have a tantrum when something needs attention.
I hope you find what your looking for.:D

[jerseyphil]

Hey Bob
I bought my Copper Canyon at Camping World in St. Augutine while living in Sebastian FL last year. About 180 miles from you but a great service department and sales staff. We found the model we wanted, got their best price then went to the Super RV show in Tampa last January. We found the model there on dispaly and got a price (show price) from the Rep. When I told him that I could do better with the dealer price he came down even more. Then I called the salesman at the dealer and offered him $6,000 under the show price from th Rep and they took it. All in all we bought it for 35% under MSRP. We probably could have done a little better than that but it was the last unit of that model left in the State so we settled.
As for service, you can't ask for a better service department, their service director Ed Woods will jump through hoops to make sure your happy as long as you treat them with a little respect and don't have a tantrum when something needs attention.
I hope you find what your looking for.:D

I also got a great price. My 318SAB was 36.7% below MSRP at Pete's RV Center in South Burlington, Vermont. They were fabulous. I highly recommend them. I was told the reason they can price it so low is because they purchase about 150 units at a time, so the manufacturer gives them a fabulous deal, which they can pass on to their customers.

[mikell]

Our Alpine was about 60% of the MSRP . Can't complain plus it has free delivery. 310 miles for 0$ even though 300 was supposed to be the limit gas would have cost me 100$ or so. The state sales tax got me a little miffed because we asked and they said that we would have to take care of it but when the paperwork came through nearly 4k$ magically appeared. All in all Holoman in Bativia had the best deal.

[Ruffus]

You didn't think that you were really going to get away that cheap did you? Still sounds like you got a good deal, hope that holds true when you need warranty work too.:eek:

[ultralight]

Don't know why people only post their percentages. My wife and I purchased our new 2010 Laredo 305TG for $29,000. The dealer sales price was $35,300 and the MSRP was listed as $45,800. So in the end, we got 37% off the MSRP.

I honestly feel that I could have negotiated a thousand or two more but I didn't feel that it would have been worth the effort. Based on market analysis the price was on the low end of what other places were selling the exact same model, at the time.

Its a numbers game. I knew that the dealer hadn't sold anything in a while because of the economy, as I had called a few times and spoke to different sales people. They desperately needed to make a sale. I did my research before going in and actually had a few "competitors," for the same model, available on my iPad.

In the end I truly don't know if I got the best possible deal, but I got one that I am satisfied with.

[mikell]

Warranty seems good . Our table devoloped a crack and they had a new one shipped to a dealer about 20 miles away. Because of the holidays we haven't picked it up yet. So far so good I'd say.

[Bob Vaughn]

Lazy Days salesman wont budge off MSRP....I told him in 45 years I had never paid MSRP on any of the campers I have owned and was not going to start now...He acted like he was doing me a favor by letting me buy....I wanted a hitch and slide toppers also thinking I would get a discount on those items at least HA......they were list price plus....I guess hell will have to freeze over before I buy any thing at Lazy Days.......OR mabey my salesman is just greedy or does not need to make sales.....:mad:

[ultralight]

I'd speak with my wallet and buy somewhere else. I'll pay MSRP on electronics and small things. But on Vehicles and Big Toys, I try to stay away from MSRP and inflexible dealers. As you pointed out, you were gonna spend other money with them also. But in the end, they lose out. Shop around and I am sure you'll find another one.

[mhs4771]

Bought our Montana in Nov '09, MSRP was 68.5, sale price was 42, worked them and had two slide toppers plus the 20K Reese fifth wheel hitch and installation all included. Service sucks, but found a Service Center that is closer and only does service work, no sales and they have been great to work with.

[gkainz]

I've heard that's common practice at Lazy Daze. Now, are they realistic about their MSRP? Dunno ... I guess one would have to compare "average purchase price" of a comparable competitor. From what I've heard and read about Lazy Daze (no personal experience with them at all), they believe there IS no comparable competitor.... ?

[jje1960]

I've heard that's common practice at Lazy Daze. Now, are they realistic about their MSRP? Dunno ... I guess one would have to compare "average purchase price" of a comparable competitor. From what I've heard and read about Lazy Daze (no personal experience with them at all), they believe there IS no comparable competitor.... ?

Ahhhh, the power of the internet. Years ago, they (dealers) got away with charging anything they wanted, it took a ton of time and resources to "keep them honest"... Prior to buying, we knew the exact unit we wanted, after research went to the a dealer close to home. 11k more than another dealer within 100mi. Even after indicating our extreme interest in purchase and cash deal (which they had problem with due to everyone financing...) they did not offer to "deal" at all. Very simple next phase, I asked why we should pay 11k more than the other dealer? 10min later (after they verified what we were talking about on the internet) they matched that price. $11,000.00 !!! $500.00 one way or the other is just plain "market", but 11k is frustrating. Times have changed with the information age advantages, have to pay attention.

[mavagrand]

Bought a 2015 Laredo 299BH from Lazy Days in Tampa. It's MSRP was 31k. I got it for 19k. Maybe it's me but that seems like a good deal. Find another salesman.

[JRTJH]

mavagrand,

This thread originated in December 2010 and the last response was in January 2011. While the information is as "current" today as it was then, chances are the posters have "moved on" from this thread.

[Bowti]

I realize the post is old but the subject is still relevant. I wonder how many pay close to the asking price. It would also be interesting to see a list of materials and a cost sheet for the build, even though it could vary greatly based on the quality of the materials.

[JRTJH]

If you've done any "significant shopping" for RV's you'll quickly realize that the MSRP on a specific model (with identical) options can vary by thousands of dollars at dealerships that are literally across the street from one another. There appears to be no specific "MSRP" developed by Keystone, rather the "sticker price" is what price that dealer decides to market the model. You'll find, as most of us did, that the "MSRP Price Sheet" that's taped to the dining table or hung from the range hood, is a dealer prepared price, and has no "real relevance to the actual price"..... Honestly, if the sales price is $38,000 with a 11,000 discount or $28,000 with a 1,000 discount, where does the MSRP really enter the picture?

I've seen MSRP sheets on the Cougar XLite 27RKS (my trailer) that range from $28,950 to $43,000. That's for the same year, identical trailer with the identical options that mine has. It's a "FAR CRY" from the "standardized price" of the auto manufacturer's "window sticker price (Which even has the same shipping charges, no matter where you buy it).

According to my dealer, he gets a discount for purchasing a quantity of RV's at once and a price discount for purchasing a specific number during the year. So, his cost changes depending on how many Keystone products he buys and how fast he can move them to order more. That's an "incentive" for him to pass on part of that discount so his "MSRP" is lower than the dealer in the next town over.

Most people seem to have bought at 15% to 25% below the "MSRP" that was listed on the sheet printed by the dealer.

As for a "build cost sheet", there are a couple of websites that give some of that information, but I've never found anything that will pass the "Snopes.com" test as valid. If you do happen to find that information, please pass along the website as I'm sure nearly all of the active members would find it very interesting. But, I'd ask: Does that information even exist?

[dcg9381]

JRTJH,
What do you think or do you have any experience buying from one of the high volume "wholesale" dealers? Typically out of state? I can come up with a few business names if needed...

Even within the bounds of 100 miles around Texarkana the reputation of most RV dealers in terms of service ranges from criminal to mediocre.. And I know that many of us, even under warranty, often find it easier to self serve rather than tow for an hour in and wait for what is sometimes months to have minor service that might need to be re-addressed.

I know that's not true of everyone's case...

[JRTJH]

JRTJH,
What do you think or do you have any experience buying from one of the high volume "wholesale" dealers? Typically out of state? I can come up with a few business names if needed...

Even within the bounds of 100 miles around Texarkana the reputation of most RV dealers in terms of service ranges from criminal to mediocre.. And I know that many of us, even under warranty, often find it easier to self serve rather than tow for an hour in and wait for what is sometimes months to have minor service that might need to be re-addressed.

I know that's not true of everyone's case...

The arguments you present are probably the most favorable in support of buying from a distant "discount dealership". There are a number of them around the country that deal in "high volume/big discount pricing". It's really tempting for someone who is looking at price as the "deciding factor". As you indicated, around your local area, "the reputation of most RV dealers in terms of service ranges from criminal to mediocre". If I were faced with that kind of expectation of service support, I'd probably look seriously at the discount dealership as well. Fortunately, I'm in an area where there are two Keystone dealers with very good reputations. One is a local family owned business that just affiliated with Camping World about 5 years ago. They have the reputation of being a "locally owned business with a great regard for their customer's satisfaction". The other is a small family run business in a small town where people travel to buy there because of the reputation and after-sale service. I've bought from both and would not hesitate to go back to either to buy again. That said, both of them offered a "can't turn it down price" that compared to the "big city discount dealerships", so there wasn't much reason to even consider making the trip to save only a couple hundred bucks.

I suppose if you're willing to gamble away the "dealer support" during the first year, after the warranty expires, it's a fairly level playing field. in that case, why not "save the money"..... It's been my experience that given time to properly negotiate the deal, (considering the time of year and unit demand) usually a local dealer with a good reputation for after sale service can come close enough to the discount dealers to make most people reconsider not buying locally.

Just my opinion, others may disagree, some vehemently.... :)

[thatdjguy]

I paid $24995 for my 2015 Passport 2920. How'd I do?

[Face Down]

I suppose if you're willing to gamble away the "dealer support" during the first year, after the warranty expires, it's a fairly level playing field. in that case, why not "save the money"..... It's been my experience that given time to properly negotiate the deal, (considering the time of year and unit demand) usually a local dealer with a good reputation for after sale service can come close enough to the discount dealers to make most people reconsider not buying locally.

Just my opinion, others may disagree, some vehemently.... :)

I have three local dealers that carry Keystone trailers, but only one that carried the Carbon that I was interested in. When were discussing price I brought up what I was seeing from these outlet dealers, and was told point blank that there was no way that they could/would match that price. So they lost the sale and I went the distance route and saved a ton of cash! I now have the two other Keystone dealers to fend with in case I do have a warranty claim within the first year...not even going to bother with the other one. I already know that one of them does not care if a unit was purchased from them I had work done through them for my last trailer...which was bought elsewhere.

[omextreme]

We tried to buy locally but our dealers would not touch the prices we found elsewhere. We even offered our local dealer 2k more then we could buy the unit for out of state and they turned it down. I was shocked, I figured everyone pays close to the same price and if seller X up in MI can sell for a price seller Y here in GA would at least get within 2k of that price... Wrong.... Best we could get was 5k higher locally. SO>>>> taking the 13 hr drive to pickup our new 5th wheel sep 3....

[TandE]

I had the same experience here in WA. The dealer I normally do business with I thought their price was high and would not budge. Found another dealer with the same model 2 hours away for almost 2k cheaper and went and talked to them. In the end I got the trailer from the farther dealer out the door for almost 8k cheaper than the one 5 min away and that's with adding in a b&w companion (first dealer didn't figure that in the price) and I got a free slide topper installed a second battery (first dealer only installs one on most 5th wheels) 75$ store credit (first dealer only gives credit to first time buyers) and free power chord adapters since the new rig is 50 amp and most places have only 30 amp along with a 30 to 15 adapter. I used to be all for buying local for a trailer but after that experience I will shop around if I upgrade again.


Travis

[bsmith0404]

We tried to buy locally but our dealers would not touch the prices we found elsewhere. We even offered our local dealer 2k more then we could buy the unit for out of state and they turned it down. I was shocked, I figured everyone pays close to the same price and if seller X up in MI can sell for a price seller Y here in GA would at least get within 2k of that price... Wrong.... Best we could get was 5k higher locally. SO>>>> taking the 13 hr drive to pickup our new 5th wheel sep 3....

You're GA dealer would have paid a little over $1k more for the unit with shipping costs. Obviously no where near $5k, but many count on the fact that most people will not travel far to pick one up. Of course, they will probably make you feel some pain if you ever ask them for service.

[C130]

I'm glad this thread started back up again because I just asked a question on another forum about dealers setting MSRP. A local dealer sells Momentum and Fuzion and I haven't been able to figure out why the MSRP was so much higher than any other dealer for the same unit. I was looking at options online and they appeared to be the same, all had three AC's, rear deck patio system, and all were the top of the line models which came with most of the upgrades. The local dealer is $6,000-$7,000 higher on their MSRP from what I can tell. The comparisons were with dealers within about the same radius or closer of the manufacturer also so delivery cost shouldn't be an issue. Plus, their service department has a terrible reputation. When I inquire about their service department's reputation they always tell me "it's better now" but admit to how bad it was in the past. Problem is they've told me this for several years now and it's always the same story about how they have a new service manager.

[cw3jason]

I spoke with the service manager at my local place to get some warranty work done. He said we don't normally work on trailers you didn't buy here. I explained to him I tried, but the sales team would not budge and I purchased the trailer for 10,000 less 2 states away. He said that's rediculas as all dealers pay the same price and realized his dealership lost a sale. They decided to do the work on my trailer after that no questions asked.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[JRTJH]

I spoke with the service manager at my local place to get some warranty work done. He said we don't normally work on trailers you didn't buy here. I explained to him I tried, but the sales team would not budge and I purchased the trailer for 10,000 less 2 states away. He said that's rediculas as all dealers pay the same price and realized his dealership lost a sale. They decided to do the work on my trailer after that no questions asked.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

It's not very often a sales manager will "talk negatively" about another part of the same dealership. I'd bet that unless he's the owner's son, if he continues to discuss the sales team shortfalls with customers, his days at that dealership are numbered.....

Anyway, it's great that he made an exception and repaired your RV. :)

[carwheel_09]

C130 if your talking about Holiday World it's still terrible. I wouldn't buy from the again. Run don't just walk away.

[Pull Toy]

MSRP is like "Fairy Dust & The Tooth Fairy".... it never existed! It sets a False ceiling, having nothing to do with reality to create an "Aura" ( read that ... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain).

The real market is what people are willing to pay. Do your homework and make a bid accordingly, Right now, it is definitely a BUYERS MARKET!

Caveat... If you buy 300 miles from home... be prepared to tow for warrenty work / service!

[CarKath]

MSRP is like "Fairy Dust & The Tooth Fairy".... it never existed! It sets a False ceiling, having nothing to do with reality to create an "Aura" ( read that ... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain).

The real market is what people are willing to pay. Do your homework and make a bid accordingly, Right now, it is definitely a BUYERS MARKET!

Caveat... If you buy 300 miles from home... be prepared to tow for warrenty work / service!

X2 , 3 and 4

[PerryB]

How do they get away with this no warranty work on outside purchases crap? What if you move in from another state? Thats going to be my cover story if necessary, I guess. The sale is where they make the money, you think they'd try a little harder in this department.

[chuckster57]

How do they get away with this no warranty work on outside purchases crap? What if you move in from another state? Thats going to be my cover story if necessary, I guess. The sale is where they make the money, you think they'd try a little harder in this department.


It's been discussed numerous times in just as many threads. Labor rates for warranty work is set by the factory and often times doesn't cover the actual time needed for the repair. With that said, if said dealer didn't make any money on the sale, should they be expected to lose money doing warranty work? I'm not trying to defend any dealer or the practice, but it is a fact, keep losing money and your business will fail.

My eyes were opened when I started working in the industry. I have spent time diagnosing an issue, taking pictures and documenting the problem, needed repair and time required, only to have the time reduced enough to force a non effective repair. One manufacturer required the removal of blinds to take a picture of the data tag to get approval for replacement. Total time for everything-.2 hr, that's 12 minutes to remove a blind, take a picture, document on a repair order, and if approved install and adjust a new blind.

That's one example, but you can see where it doesn't really make economic sense to service someone else's sale.

[PerryB]

Thanks Chuck. I didnt properly articulate myself, and I realize warranty rates and times blow. I was in the auto service business for 15 years at a 3 line dealership. We were not allowed to question the origin or the vehicle. If it was one of our brands we took it in. The only techs that liked warrant work were the Toyota crew. Toyota actually pays reasonable times. Anyway, the theory was if we made them feel welcome and they liked us, they would come back at purchase time.

[JRTJH]

Thanks Chuck. I didnt properly articulate myself, and I realize warranty rates and times blow. I was in the auto service business for 15 years at a 3 line dealership. We were not allowed to question the origin or the vehicle. If it was one of our brands we took it in. The only techs that liked warrant work were the Toyota crew. Toyota actually pays reasonable times. Anyway, the theory was if we made them feel welcome and they liked us, they would come back at purchase time.

PerryB,

If you haven't yet, you will soon come to realize that there is really not much similarity between RV dealerships and automobile dealerships. About the only thing I've found to be similar between the two is that you need one to use with the other. Otherwise, they are two different "beasts" and don't operate with the same "mentality for service or warranty".

I'd think of it more like buying a new vacuum from Target and taking it back to Sears for a refund when something happens with the power switch. RV dealers, like vacuum dealers, usually don't offer service for items not purchased from their store.....

One RV dealership chain that, so far, doesn't seem to question the location of purchase is Camping World. If you have one near you, that might be your best bet for warranty repairs (if you need them). But don't think that you can pull into any Keystone dealership and get the same "warm welcome" from service that you would from your selling dealer. Most people here would tell you that it's a hassle, if not an impossibility, to get service from the place you bypassed for a better purchase price.

[tgpilot]

Thanks Chuck. I didnt properly articulate myself, and I realize warranty rates and times blow. I was in the auto service business for 15 years at a 3 line dealership. We were not allowed to question the origin or the vehicle. If it was one of our brands we took it in. The only techs that liked warrant work were the Toyota crew. Toyota actually pays reasonable times. Anyway, the theory was if we made them feel welcome and they liked us, they would come back at purchase time.

Which is the way it should be!!

[PerryB]

PerryB,

If you haven't yet, you will soon come to realize that there is really not much similarity between RV dealerships and automobile dealerships. About the only thing I've found to be similar between the two is that you need one to use with the other. Otherwise, they are two different "beasts" and don't operate with the same "mentality for service or warranty".

I'd think of it more like buying a new vacuum from Target and taking it back to Sears for a refund when something happens with the power switch. RV dealers, like vacuum dealers, usually don't offer service for items not purchased from their store.....

One RV dealership chain that, so far, doesn't seem to question the location of purchase is Camping World. If you have one near you, that might be your best bet for warranty repairs (if you need them). But don't think that you can pull into any Keystone dealership and get the same "warm welcome" from service that you would from your selling dealer. Most people here would tell you that it's a hassle, if not an impossibility, to get service from the place you bypassed for a better purchase price.

I meant to ask the other day, did you stop at the experimental reactor site (EBR1) about 18 mi. E. of Arco while enroute to Craters? We did a couple years ago and found it interesting.

[JRTJH]

I meant to ask the other day, did you stop at the experimental reactor site (EBR1) about 18 mi. E. of Arco while enroute to Craters? We did a couple years ago and found it interesting.

No, we didn't stop, well, we did, but it was closed when we went through and with all the "other stuff to do" we never backtracked. Honestly, I wanted to go back when they were open, but time slipped away from us before we got the chance....

[C130]

One thing I'm also finding out while looking at new toy haulers is that there are some dealers that are making up their own MSRP. I've been looking at a couple particular brands within about a 500-800 miles radius and couldn't figure out why my local dealer was $6,000-$8,000 higher than any where else I looked. I asked the sales guy after looking at the specs sheet on a particular toy hauler and he told me they set it to their current "market conditions". This particular dealer seems to get only one of each specific model and play the "we only have one left so you better act quick or it'll be gone" trick.

Then, when asked about the interest rates they could get with excellent credit I was told over 6% and no lower. I call BS on this also and sure they are marking up the rate and getting the difference of the actual rate.

The more I look at new the more I want to buy a one year old unit like I did before. Hopefully, the bugs have been worked out, the original owner takes the big depreciation hit, and the warranty is about useless anyways. I was told 4-6 weeks before they could even look at an issue right now when asked what the wait time was if I had an issue. I've come to the conclusion the RV industry is the worst of any out there and it's unacceptable. Unbelievable crawly craftsmanship with no quality control. We were looking at a new Fuzion Chrome with a $125,000 MSRP and an entire piece of kitchen trim fell off when the sales guy put his arm against it. I bought my 2011 used and had zero problems with it. I sold it and had a little equity in it, about exactly what I had put down, and sold it within a week at a decent price. Problem right now is I can't find anything decent but thinking this winter there will be way more used units. I'm also looking at leftover 2015's and there are some decent deals on them also. Problem is they are not local and I know the new ones usually have bugs to sort out and I'll be on my own with those issues.

[C130]

MSRP is like "Fairy Dust & The Tooth Fairy".... it never existed! It sets a False ceiling, having nothing to do with reality to create an "Aura" ( read that ... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain).

The real market is what people are willing to pay. Do your homework and make a bid accordingly, Right now, it is definitely a BUYERS MARKET!

Caveat... If you buy 300 miles from home... be prepared to tow for warrenty work / service!

It doesn't seem to be a buyers marker here, wish it was. I just looked at a new Momentum and it sold the next day and they are selling each one they get fairly quick it looks like. Not sure about the the brands but every 385 Momentum I've looked at sold very quick.

I'm thinking I'll be making a long road trip if I buy new but I'm not paying thousands more to buy locally.

[gearhead]

Has anyone compared MSRP and final sale price of the same unit at different Camping World stores? Do they have company wide set prices?
I'm thinking if I trade again it would be CW, just for the fact that there is service in most areas of the US.
C130 when the oil company layoffs start hitting Houston I think the demand will slow. When the pipeline projects and petrochem plants get built out it may get real slow.

[EVMIII]

I spoke with the service manager at my local place to get some warranty work done. He said we don't normally work on trailers you didn't buy here. I explained to him I tried, but the sales team would not budge and I purchased the trailer for 10,000 less 2 states away. He said that's rediculas as all dealers pay the same price and realized his dealership lost a sale. They decided to do the work on my trailer after that no questions asked.

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Pretty short sighted of any dealership to only service campers they sell. On the coast we have so many transients that were not purchased within 1000 miles, never seen any of our local dealers turn away business. Most do give some priority and discount to campers they sold.

As to the original post, pay no attention to listed MRSPs. As previously mentioned they are produced by the dealers. When I purchased my Alpine, the dealer had it listed almost $40K more than my purchase price. When he first showed me the trailer he started negotiating $30K off that number and we went from there.