Polar Package vs Glacier Package???

[Wally15]

I've been reading some of the horror stories of freezing valves and water lines on RV's with the "Polar Package". My 2013 Laredo has a sticker that says "Glacier Package". Anybody know what the difference is between the two? While it's not much of an issue down here in south GA, it may effect the a/c in the summer. We did see 15 degrees last month when the 1st Polar Vortex blew through. And 20 degrees on the 2nd one. Plus an inch of snow. I might have to move another 60 miles south into FL if this "global warming" trend keeps up.

[Festus2]

I've been reading some of the horror stories of freezing valves and water lines on RV's with the "Polar Package". My 2013 Laredo has a sticker that says "Glacier Package". Anybody know what the difference is between the two?
.

Wally15 -
There is no difference between the two. All of Keystone's stickers whether they say 'Polar", "Arctic", "Glacier" or whatever are simply advertising gimmicks. Volumes have been written about these misleading stickers and packages. Long story short - Don't believe them and your unit, as is, is a 3 season RV. It might be more where you live but venture north and you'll soon find out that you won't be protected - unless you carry out some modifications and upgrades - in long periods of freezing temperatures.

The problem is, that many RVers, have been told by the salesman who point to the sticker or read the glossy brochure, believe that the unit must be ok. To their dismay, it isn't.

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

Sorry to disappoint you.

[JRTJH]

Wally,

You mention that the "extras" in the glacier package may help with A/C in the summer. There probably isn't much "extra" to help with keeping the cabin cool. The glacier package is simply a "underbelly cover" and "heated tanks/valves". There is a 2" furnace duct directed into the tank space and a corrugated plastic cover under the frame. Otherwise, there's not much to the glacier package's "claim to fame".

As for summer help, the majority of heat gain in the cabin is from the sunshine on the roof/walls and the solar gain through the windows. The A/C won't benefit much from what's "protected" under the trailer and the furnace doesn't run, so there's no help/harm there either.

Pretty much, during the summer, your A/C is on it's own without any help from "Mr. Glacier".

[Steve S]

I hear that next year Keystone is coming out with the vortex package, I already put an order in for one!:D:dizzy:

[GaryWT]

As said they are all the same and I said on another post that it should help if it is 30 out and maybe a short time is it is in the 20's but so many people seem to be camping with the temps below zero. Never mind the hoses freezing, the trailer must be cool in general and they must be blowing through propane big time.

[BillnDeb]

We have the Polar Pack and managed fine in many days when it hit 20 degrees between November and January in Virginia, Myrtle Beach and Panama City Beach (we followed the southern polar vortex 😁.). The day we left Myrtle Beach, it was so cold, the water froze as it hit the concrete pad when DH unhooked the water. Common sense had to rule. We let water drip when we knew it would be below 32-during our six weeks out, that happened at least 10 times (we wonder what the campgrounds water bill is during these freeze spells), we used the propane heater and supplemented with 2 small electric heaters, one in the main area and the other in our bedroom/bath area.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/09/nuguhe2u.jpg
My selfie the day we left Myrtle Beach with water freezing on our concrete pad, Jan 7, 2014.
Debbie

[Festus2]

Bill & Debbie -
You might have been able to "manage fine" when the temperatures dipped to below freezing for short periods of time. Having water dripping may help prevent water lines from freezing for a day or two in temperatures slightly below freezing. I am wondering what would be the result if you were to have spent most or all of the 6 weeks in areas where it was below freezing all day and all night.

If you follow Steve's posts (in another thread), you will have noticed that his unit has been in sub zero temps (Celsius) for almost a couple of weeks and he experienced freezing water lines even though he does have the Arctic/Polar/Glacier package. This, along with having a tap open and running water didn't seem to offer him much in the way of protection.

My point is that these units, as designed, built and labeled, are going to freeze up in long, sustained periods of below freezing temperatures, unless of course, a person has made some upgrades and modifications to them to enable them to withstand these kinds of temperatures.

[BillnDeb]

Yes, that is true!! We only hoped we'd have very short spells and the sun did warm things up to the 50's!
Sorry-just wanted to say it helped us as we had hoped, but we never planned to be in sustained cold and we were told it would not work in that environment when we saw the polar package as an option for us.
Debbie

[Steve S]

Hi Debbi, you're not really in anything cold yet, the sticker on the side really means nothing as if you look underneath there's exposed pipes with no protection.
The problem about freezing and being in sub zero for weeks is that once you're frozen that's it you're frozen!
I've had no running water for about a week now, all pipes are frozen. Sure I could waste time with a hair dryer thawing everything out but then it'll freeze up again overnight. I'm waiting till things thaw, going to pressure test all the lines then insulate properly.
I will mention that I am absolutely not knocking nor will I ever knock Keystone for the way they insulated the walls and the ceiling.
For 1 1/2 walls they used a great R value rigid insulation and the ceiling is thick and there's very little heat loss.
We've been at -7 to -10 most nights and my furnace doesn't kick in that much.
Am I keeping warm? Yes very warm. Can I stay warm if we were to hit -20? I can honestly say that we could as even @ -12 with a oil filled heater I still find myself turning down the furnace @ 2am.
The big issue for me speaking and for most is there's no insulation underneath and that's a detail that many owners should be aware of before they head out in to the cold.

[geo]

Wally15 & Debbie -

If you utilize the Search on the menu bar, you will find many postings with many pictures concerning the Polar/Arctic/Glacier package. For example, if you utilize the Search, you will find this:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4784
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5529

You will also find a couple of members who have installed tank heaters and insulation. I installed Fiberglass insulation, where as others, such as mguay, have used spray foam insulation.

The Search function is very handy.

Ron

[kippy]

I have a fuzion 38 foot winterized. After 36 hours of hard freeze i could nut turn my faucets on, this also hoppened on my 28 foot rv. Temps down to 15 and up to 40. The kicker is i live in N. W. Florida

[SAABDOCTOR]

STEVE If you want a chuckle... my monte is stored at my house. I got so cold the polar package sticker fell off, so I guess it reached the max low temp:rolleyes:

[Steve S]

STEVE If you want a chuckle... my monte is stored at my house. I got so cold the polar package sticker fell off, so I guess it reached the max low temp:rolleyes:

That reminds me I have to get the hairdryer out at some point and take the polar sticker off:D

[owings64]

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty

[wiredgeorge]

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty


Marty, great first post but you were replying to a thread that has been 7 years without activity. Take a minute and go to the UserCP and then the Signature button and make a signature with year, make and model or your camper and the same for your tow vehicle. Helps add context to your posts. Anyway, glad to have to aboard.

[travelin texans]

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty

FYI!
Both those terms, Glazier or Polar, are just sales gimmicks & I'd doubt there's a bit of difference in their build or their ability to withstand single digit temps without some serious winterizing precautions beforehand.
Those so called packages typically mean there's a layer of Reflectix (chrome bubble wrap) above the Coroplast (plastic cardboard) covering the underbelly with a small duct from the furnace blowing into that underbelly.
There's only so much R factor that can be placed in a 2 - 2 1/2" walls or a 4 - 6" attic. If your rv is equipped with slides there's little to no insulation in the floors or ceiling.

[dalel2000]

Leave the hot and cold water taps in all areas running slightly. Only works well if you have full hookups at a park and leave the Grey water tank open.

Leave the cabinets open as well and crank the gas heat up a bit since it does heat in the underneath area. You can feel the air coming from the cut out holes under the sinks.

We also have two small space heaters to supplement, but remember you have to ensure the gas heat runs long enough to keep the underneath area heated to whatever degree it achieves such.

All this so far works, but agree that I would not want to stay in this situation for weeks at a time.

[JRTJH]

Leave the hot and cold water taps in all areas running slightly. Only works well if you have full hookups at a park and leave the Grey water tank open.

Leave the cabinets open as well and crank the gas heat up a bit since it does heat in the underneath area. You can feel the air coming from the cut out holes under the sinks.

We also have two small space heaters to supplement, but remember you have to ensure the gas heat runs long enough to keep the underneath area heated to whatever degree it achieves such.

All this so far works, but agree that I would not want to stay in this situation for weeks at a time.

no! No! NO!!!!!

DO NOT LEAVE THE WATER RUNNING !!!!!

Even if you have the gray tank valve open, you still have a "unprotected sewer hose" laying outside. That "small trickle of water" if it's cold enough to freeze the inside plumbing, is going to freeze the outside sewer hose. Once the flow stops, the gray tank is effectively "closed to any discharge" and will begin to fill up. A "trickle of water at the faucet" can be as much as 4 or 5 gallons per hour. So, overnight, with water in 2 or 3 faucets flowing into the gray tanks, you risk flooding the trailer interior once that sewer hose freezes. And, no, the sewer hose doesn't have to completely fill with ice, just a "loop to keep sewer gasses out of the trailer" is all that needs to freeze, then the hose will become "the gray tank dump valve".....

[dalel2000]

Interesting. Moving water doesn’t freeze easily, especially water that is somewhat warm. Other forums imply “this is the way”.

I have been monitoring in below 20 degree weather for the last couple days and so far ok. Stay tuned, soon to have even colder weather here in Kansas.

[sourdough]

Have to heartily agree with John. If in below freezing temps leaving the faucets open is a recipe for disaster. I have seen an individual deal with the aftermath of trying that plan. Didn't flood the trailer but he had a mess to deal with because the cold was for an extended period.

If you use the outside faucet use a heated hose. I enclose my water filter and have heated hoses going into and out of it while enclosed in a foam ice chest filled with insulation. If it's going to get really cold single digits/teens continually I will eventually disconnect the water hose. Run the furnace (not heat pump or space heaters) to keep the belly warm.

After doing all that, throwing another log on the fire and re-checking everything outside, I come inside. As I come up the stairs I run my fingers affectionately across my "Guaranteed 4 Seasons Living, Permafrost Proof, Artic Guard Freeze Proof Rating to minus a bazillion degrees" sticker, smirk with the irony, go inside and hope something doesn't freeze since it will be 25 degrees.....:lol: Last paragraph said in jest.:)

[dalel2000]

Yes have the heated hose. Already pregnant on this one, so let’s see. So far all good. Definitely not my plan to do this again - we hate cold, but visiting kids …

Rub that glacier sticker for me a few times … I’ll do same.

[flybouy]

Interesting. Moving water doesn’t freeze easily, especially water that is somewhat warm. Other forums imply “this is the way”.

I have been monitoring in below 20 degree weather for the last couple days and so far ok. Stay tuned, soon to have even colder weather here in Kansas.

Good luck with that. " Moving" water? Relatively warm water runs off a house roof and freezes creating ice cycles. RV sewer hoses tend to be ribbed and lay pretty flat, dramatically slowing down a trickle of water to a crawl. Even Niagra Falls has frozen before.

[sourdough]

Interesting. Moving water doesn’t freeze easily, especially water that is somewhat warm. Other forums imply “this is the way”.

I have been monitoring in below 20 degree weather for the last couple days and so far ok. Stay tuned, soon to have even colder weather here in Kansas.


That water in the sewer hose spends the last "long time" barely moving; it's not warm and by the time it gets about 8' out it's wanting to freeze. Once that "ice sheet" is built on the bottom of the sewer hose it freezes that much quicker. Anyone that says "this is the way" has never done it before for any length of time....or had to deal with it once it happens. The individual I mentioned earlier was stuck - he had to go buy a new sewer hose and deal with the frozen one.....he didn't leave his faucets running or the drain open 2nd go round.

[dalel2000]

Stay tuned ��

[wiredgeorge]

Got a notice from Medina county emergency management:
Artic airmass moving in Thursday morning and will have a prolonged period of freezing temps in the area. Lows Friday 10-20F windy with chill factor -8 to -11. Take precautions... yada yada

Anyone in a camper for the next week or so and don't have a heated hose, roll you hose up and stick it in storage and fill your fresh water tank The stinky slinky is a whole nuther problem. If you can keep tanks from freezing I would just remove the sewer hose and put it in storage compartment and only hook it up to dump.

This weird winter weather is harder on areas that are normally not seeing these type temps as folks will not really know what to do. I went camping last year and temps got into the 20s at night and I don't think my city water hose thawed out for a day or two and I ended up using the fresh water tank. We usually use a small electric heater at night when temps get chilly and are OK and warm things for a few minutes in the morning with the camper's heater. Found that below freezing and we got cold up in the bedroom so I bought an electric blanket for those situations.

Cold ain't fun.

GEEZ,,, for all that bloviating wisdom I had forgotten to winterize the camper. Blew out the lines, drained hot water tank and put some anti-freeze in the p-traps. Have a small heater on to try and keep inside temps above freezing. It is going to get REAL cold.

[dalel2000]

Ok. Firsthand experience of having survived multiple days in a keystone Laredo with glacier package. Yesterday and day before were below zero all day and above zero today but well below freezing. Overall, I would not want to do this again, but I would give a thumbs up for how it has performed in a really bad cold situation .

When the wind blew it was difficult to keep really warm. We had two space heaters and the gas heat. With no wind it seems to be fine. Uber blankets we were fine at night.

Battery performance drops to half. I have a battery monitor and it gives real-time stats and it was always around 50% or less until the temps reached above 5 or 10 degrees. I even but a thermal blanket on it and it was better but not great. Lights and stuff worked but it seemed like the gas heat blower was not working as well.

We left water running at all times and a trickle of the hot water. Continuous for three days so far and no issues. Gray tank completely open and no issues.

Blank tank gate valve was closed and I put antifreeze In with everything. Gate valve froze shut so I had to put torch heat on it and a small dent puller tool to get it open. So this is so far the one big issue. I was not ok with leaving it open since we need the stuff to breakdown.

Other issue is I could not keep the toilet water running and it did stop flowing after a couple days of really cold weather. I took the front plate off from the front of the stall shower and it not only help put heat into that area where more water lines and pipes exist, there is cut outs to the underneath space. Running a hair dryer on low, pointed into that hole really helped assist the underneath heating provided by the glacier feature. The toilet line defrosted after a few hours of this.

We also found a couple of gaps around the wooden frame border located at the head of the bed. We sealed those and much better.

One other thing. I have a keyless electric lock and we engaged the deadbolt portion and after a few hours of blowing wind and snow, we could not unlock it. I had to take it off from the inside to turn it. So now we don’t lock the deadbolt until we are sure it is going to be ok.

Again, not something we planned to endure but it has been ok not great. Anything above freeing would be just fine.

[wiredgeorge]

Don't envy your staying in the RV while those temps are so low. I ran a small electric heater in my camper to keep the inside above freezing. It got down to about 10F last night and when I went up and checked things it was about 40F inside the camper which is fine. I checked my non-heater amps on the Progressive EMS and 6 without the heater on and 13A with it on highest setting. I would be concerned in a 30A camper to run two of those things and much of anything else.

One of the RV magazines had tips for cold weather heating and one was a propane heater that didn't need venting. I would be nervous and wonder how much propane would be needed for 3-4 days of really cold weather. Might have been RVLIFE.

[dalel2000]

As mentioned earlier … I don’t recommend our situation, but the keystone camper has performed ok given the drastic situation.

We have 50 amp hookups so running two space heaters and a hair dryer works fine and we have been comfy other than the one day of nonstop winds at below zero — blankets kept us warm.

We also have a Westinghouse generator that I had to use in the middle of the night when the power was out for a couple hours. Not having power was my biggest concern and so glad we invested in the generator. I could run both space heaters but it would have cut our gen time in half, so we kept just one running as well as gas heat and a couple lights.

If we had been in a boondock situation I am fairly certain this would have been a no go very quickly. Full hookups is doable.