Thank you Polar Package!

[Steve S]

Well it was after buying the TT that I found out that the Polar Package was B.S!
I woke up to the pipes being frozen, no hot or cold water except for the cold in the bedroom sink.
It's only -5 with a chill of -10 so it's really not that cold! The good thing is that we were expecting the cold snap so I made sure my water tank was full to lessen the chance of that freezing.
So I wonder if Keystone ever tested their wonderful Polar Package and what did they consider cold to be?

[JRTJH]

The Cougar now comes with the Polar Package Plus. Here's the description for it:

Polar package plus
Cougar has been zero degree tested. The Polar Package Plus allows you to camp to zero degrees without worry of your tanks or water lines freezing up. We also add upgraded insulation to our slide-out floors to control the hot and cold exchange and unlike our competition we merge our skirt metal to the I-Beam for complete enclosure of your fifth wheel underbelly.

The illustration in the ad shows a thermometer with a "current reading" of 2*F.

If the "upgraded" "PLUS" package only protects to zero, the "polar package" probably won't protect even that low. I've heard reference to 20* F, and also to "Below 32" but haven't seen any specific guarantee of any "cold temperature protection" studies or guarantees.

If you do a forum search for "Polar Package" you'll see that everyone pretty much feels it's a marketing scheme with no real protection features that make true cold weather camping a reality.

[Festus2]

Steve -
Sorry to hear about your frozen water lines but the Polar Package being "BS" is not exactly breaking "news". As a full-timer, unless you took steps to enable your Cougar to get through all 4 seasons - including the occasional short spell of a few days of freezing temperatures - these kinds of things will unfortunately happen.

Too late now but you might want to consider adding skirting, additional insulation in the underbelly, providing some kind of "heat" in the skirted area or storage compartments, wrapping external pipes/water supply lines with foam pipe insulation or heat wrap, etc., to prevent this from happening again.

It is supposed to stay cold and get even colder over the next day or two and then "warm up".

[Steve S]

I have all the lines that I installed wrapped and these are all doing fine.
I thought about skirting but I have hedges on the windy side blocking the wind and my shop on the other side. I'm not really too concerned about things as I make coffee the night before and I'll just leave the kitchen taps open until it warms up a bit and they thaw.
The main thing is that my propane fix worked great and I'm not freezing."bouncey:

[Steve S]

Here's a pic of the wind break on one side.
Also a pick of my gray water drain insulated, it's temp till I build a trap for anything that goes down the drain.
Also a pick of my poor little TD that's freezing too.:eek:

[Western Traveler]

I have a 2014 with Polar Package Plus. Saw all the ads and talked to the Keystone Rep at the Pamona RV show. He assured me it was tested to 0'F.
I also saw some stuff online that the Half Ton Series was testing better insulation standards this year.
Of course -5 is not 0 and yes a higher temperature floor likely do to wind chill etc. though yours looks sheltered.
We camped in 34-35' F in January and I expected the furnace to run pretty much continually. That was not the case as it would come on run for a bit and be off for 1 1/2 to 2 hours at 68' thermostat setting, Sometimes longer.
Obviously things can change drastically another 30' colder.
I kept meaning to drop the bottom panel to look at what is under there and if it is actually different now but will have to wait till I return to the Mainland.
Wondering if anyone has had this Polar Package Plus in extreme WX (0'F and up) without winterizing.

[Steve S]

That's interesting about your furnace not kicking on and running when it got colder.
I was up till 3 am and I noticed the same thing with the furnace. The colder it got the less the furnace cycled and it stayed really warm in here.

[superdog404]

We just bought a 2013 Cougar 318sab in Nov. of 2013 new. We live in so. California. We bought it in Michigan and went to Ontario Canada to visit relatives. It was usually around 20 F most of the time. The trailer did very well. Used a lot of propane but nothing froze. Coming across I80 first part of Dec. was a whole different story. We were in -20 to -30's most of the way back. The fresh water tank froze almost instantly along with the water lines. We used a 5 gallon plastic water container for coffee etc. We used the fireplace and a ceramic heater most of the time so the duct into the basement wasn't being used much so I guess that didn't help the freezing problem. The polar package plus does seem to work some. Comparing to our 2000 Fleetwood Wilderness we would have froze to death I am almost sure.
WILL NEVER GO EAST IN THE WINTER AGAIN!!!

[FullTimer]

I noticed a few years ago, the more it snows, the more insulated the trailer is. I always enjoy the dead quiet when there is a foot of snow. But when the wind is ripping, that's what gets you. It will find every nook and cranny in one...I was watching a vid the other day, where there was some intrepid young souls winter camping. They took snow and shoveled a wall around the underside of the trailer, for skirting.

[GaryWT]

Never paid too much attention but figured the polar package was good for 30 degrees and if lucky down to 20 degrees. I was told it just blows a little warm heat below the floor towards the holding tanks. Of course that does not mean the valves will not freeze shut.

[tdawg]

we have been down in the teens with our 2013 Alpine with no problems and without any mods.:)

[Steve S]

Well I got home and the hot water pipes are still frozen but one cold water tap is still working, guess I better do something about this.
So boys, where do I start?
Cold water in the bedroom sink, no hot. No cold or hot in the shower or the kitchen sink. Water pump works fine and fresh tank not frozen.

2010 Cougar tt.

[Steve S]

Anyone:confused: I really need to wash my dishes guys:scuba:

[FullTimer]

Lol, you need heat, lots of it. You should have one or two little space heaters, open the cabinets and place heaters near lines. You can also resort to the wife's hairdryer, for any spots that may be frozen. I would look for anywhere the lines dip under the trailer or where they route near the walls under the cabinets. You might even see outside frost on the spots where water is frozen inside the lines.

[Festus2]

Anyone:confused: I really need to wash my dishes guys:scuba:

Boil some water in a kettle on your stove????

[Steve S]

Boil some water in a kettle on your stove????

Great idea"bouncey: Actually bad idea, no water:D

[Steve S]

Lol, you need heat, lots of it. You should have one or two little space heaters, open the cabinets and place heaters near lines. You can also resort to the wife's hairdryer, for any spots that may be frozen. I would look for anywhere the lines dip under the trailer or where they route near the walls under the cabinets. You might even see outside frost on the spots where water is frozen inside the lines.

Thanks, yes I've read about the pipes freezing under the cabinets and I'll check on that soon.
I'm going to pull the wonderful thermal (not) plastic underneath today and look for the low pipes. Should I start near the water heater first?
I'm going to buy those grey insulated pipes like in the pic this morning. Do you guys think that this stuff will work the best?
I don't want to buy the electric tape as I want to stay away from having to rely on shore power.

[Festus2]

Great idea"bouncey: Actually bad idea, no water:D

Here's another bad idea ----- To tide you over until you get your water lines unfrozen, take a drive to wherever and pick up a few jugs of water. :D

[Steve S]

Here's another bad idea ----- To tide you over until you get your water lines unfrozen, take a drive to wherever and pick up a few jugs of water. :D

I was smart last night and filled up some empty water cooler jugs so I do have water:) But @ -2 right now they're starting to look a little frosty:eek:

[FullTimer]

Lol, I keep extra 2 gallon Ozarka water's around for emergencies. I would start at the faucets closest to the city water inlet. First, make sure the city water connector and or hose isn't frozen. Then go the closest faucet and backtrack the lines to see what the deal is. Remembering, all it takes is a water line laying against a frame rail, a super cold wall, etc to freeze it. Look for ANY air leaks in the under carriage cover and close by water lines. ANY openings in the frame or cover will let tons of air in.

The gray pipe insulation helps, by lowering line exposure to the cold air. BUT again, there is no replacement for some heat. Take for example, I have known alot of people that will put a small heater in the basement of their 5th wheels, to keep lines from freezing. I won't say whether I would do this to one like you'res, (liability issues) but I would be tempted...

ETA be aware, there is a possibility that when a line thaws it will start leaking....So be prepared to kill the water to the trailer during all this.

[Steve S]

K I'm going under boys, if you don't hear from me in an hour or so it's because I froze to death and the coyotes are having me for lunch:eek::D

[FullTimer]

Lmao, or you're frozen to the ground lol. Just look really good, for any air leaks, or frosted lines.

[JRTJH]

Here is only ONE example of the pitfalls of winter camping/full-timing in an RV. Not to say it's impossible, but nobody has succeeded in living in a Keystone RV for a "real winter" without significant preparations. You just can't "turn up the heat" and add a small electric heater and have a functional RV. Read through some of the problems faced by amosher and you'll see that if you don't get some winterization started pretty quick, you're going to either damage your RV or not be able to use it as a shelter. Either way, you're about to be "out in the cold" unless you start protecting your investment!!!

Read through some of his problems here:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9057&highlight=frozen

[Steve S]

Well I dropped the coroplast, the Makita batteries don't like the cold too much!
So what I saw was a complete joke! There's nothing for insulation around the pipes at all. There's so many dead cavities that need insulation that it makes me wonder what Keystone was thinking!
So here's the plan: First thing I did was kill the power to the hot water and drained it, poured antifreeze in to the fresh water tank. I'm not going to mess around with hairdryers, I'm going to wait a few days till things warm up a bit.
When the pipes are thawed I'm going to drain everything, pressure test all the lines and check for leaks and repair anything not that I expect any leaks as nothing is cracked.
All the exposed pipes will be wrapped in the grey pipe wraps I picked up this morning.
All cavities will be filled and glued in with ridged insulation, all perimeter edges will be caulked.
The underneath of the floors and any other voids will be spray foamed if I can find my spay gun! I think my brother inlaw has it.
I'm also going to install a tank heater for the fresh. If anyone can point me in the right direction on this that would be helpful:)
I'm going to bail on skirting even though it's cheap as I'm pretty well protected from the wind.
Any Thoughts or suggestions about my plan?

[JRTJH]

I would seriously reconsider the skirting. Even if you use 3/4 rigid foam board and cut to fit, you'll stop the wind from blowing under your RV. An added benefit would be a "sort of vacuum bottle" affect in that any ambient warmth would be slowed from escaping. That's not the situation with "bushes a few feet away".

As for the line insulation. It's "OK" in that it will slow the cold from reaching your plumbing, but remember, it also prevents the warmth from reaching those lines making it harder to keep it "unfrozen" when things warm up during the day. Pipe insulation is a double edged sword in that it helps, but it also harms by the same amount...... Think about it, you're probably better off spending the time installing skirting rather than insulating each pipe.

As for tank heaters, we have a member who just finished adding heaters to each of his tanks last week. Here's a link to his thread. http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15014&highlight=tank+heater

[Steve S]

Thanks for the link it was informative.
I'm lost when you say that insulation will keep the warmth from reaching the lines:confused:
Skirting is a good thing for the wind, like let's face it wind and cold can freeze things up pretty fast. :eek: I really don't have that much wind and the hedges really do block it as when I sit on the other side having a smoke there's no wind at all.
I could see and will install it if the cold was to stick around and the temps dip.

[JRTJH]

The bushes will help keep the "wind chill" down and stop the wind from blowing under your trailer. the bushes do absolutely NOTHING to keep the little ambient temperature your RV is leaking through the underbelly contained. The purpose of skirting is not to stop the wind from blowing under your RV. It does that, but the purpose is to contain the heat and keep the area under your trailer as warm as possible. Bushes don't do that. If the underside of your RV is 35*F and the air is 10*F, the area under your RV is going to be 10*F and all the "stuff that's just laying there exposed" to use your description is going to be exposed to 10*F and probably freeze. With skirting, the warmth seeping out of the underbelly is contained under the RV and that 10*F will rise to 15 or 20 or higher depending on the amount of insulation in the skirting. That few degrees will help the trailer stay warmer and prevent much of the potential for freezing pipes. You said that last week when it was 15 you were comfortable inside. If you can keep the area under your RV at 15, you'll stay comfortable inside, but if the wind blows under it or even the "still air" under it is 10, you're going to lose that available heat and start freezing pipes.

As for not understanding how insulation works around pipes. It keeps the cold out when the temp is going down, that's the reason you're wanting to put it on. BUT remember that it will keep the warm air out also when the temps are going up. So when it warms up a few degrees, and your pipes are insulated, you will not benefit from the warming trend because your pipes are insulated and will stay as cold as they were. What that means is when the sun goes down and starts getting cold again, you're right back where you were and adding more cold to the pipes without ever benefitting from the warmth of the day. As that adds up, it makes keeping the "warm stuff in" hard to do because you've built a system to keep the cold stuff out.

[Steve S]

Yeah I hear what you're saying but what I'm doing is installing rigid insulation, wrapping the pipes and then spray foaming with an R rated foam that I spray basements with and in between joists.
I'm doing it this way as spraying over pipes and wires isn't a smart thing to do as it's a bitch to repair things as hacking through that stuff is a headache.
Covering everything and then foam spray and then sealing it all up with the coroplast will make it bullet proof and air proof. Also I won't have to worry about moisture in the hot and cold as it will be in a sense a solid chunk of foam.
This is the way I do things while building houses and I've never had a problem.
The way I'm doing it from reading the building codes here I'm good till -30 which I can't see that ever happening and if it does this thing has wheels"bouncey:"bouncey:

[FullTimer]

I see what John is saying insulation has it's purpose, to keep the cold out, but once pipes freeze, it's a b*tch to thaw them lol, because the insulation holds the cold in as well. So you still have to have heat from somewhere, warm water from a heater or trickling warm water to the farthest point. BUT insulation will buy you time, and keep things from freezing to a much deeper temp. I thought about the spray on insulation when I did mine and thought it would be so much easier lol. I think EVERY trailer should be done that way.

I like what you have planned. I would do as you say, let everything thaw out, make sure there are no leaks and let the foam gun rip. But be aware, something like the FW tank, will freeze if the temps are sustained for multiple days below zero. Thus the extra step of installing heating pads. The ability to have a full heated FW tank, no matter what the conditions are. As long as I have 12 volts lol.

I went with 120 volt heat strips on the black tank and the plumbing for the valves, since they would be plugged in constantly. But if we dry camped in severe weather more, I would have opted for 12 volt pads there as well.

I would go the extra step inside as well, and put the pipe insulation on the lines. One thought I had, was get a large enough size pipe insulation, to totally slip over both the cold and hot together. Then you could trickle the warm, and that would also keep the cold from freezing. I even went as far as cutting large squares of 3 1/2 insulation and closing the outer access doors with that tucked on the inside. Think about it, the wall is 2 inches thick, the access doors are 1/2-3/4 inch thick, hardly any insulating properties at all, especially around the HW heater door with all the plumbing.

I like you're determination and am looking forward to you're progress. Thanks John for referring to that thread, I was hoping the pics and progress reports would help others avoid what happened to me the first week we had the camper and The Storm hit lol. To say I was in panic mode was an understatement lol. I will say this, it's a totally different camper now, compared to then. :)

[Festus2]

Steve -
So, does all your preparation and improvements include skirting or not?

[mikell]

I would like to say out 2010 Alpine has been great, Until the perfect storm this year. During the -40 windchilll days a while back the water heater rusted thru and filled the crawl space with water that soon turned into a ICEBURG on the coroplast. It soon came crashing down and turned into a replication of Lake Michigan frozen to the trailer and to the ground.

Well after removing that mess in negative who knows how cold I had a bunch of bubble insulation and triple layered it underneath and have it held up with plywood because it was too cold for any tape or anything.The coro was froze to the ground and still is. So 2 sheets of plywood several 2 x 4's and various bricks and such sealing up the underside

Everything is on hold as far as finished repairs. New water heater was delivered from Texas in 2 days 4 days before Christmas installation took about an hour. Now the kitchen drain might be froze it goes down slow so tonight I put a fan in the basement blowing into the crawl space.

So my insulating and hole plugging worked for over 4 years till the water heater took things out. If spring EVER comes the final repairs will only take a day or two after work and I'll be adding more insulation just because I'm in there.

The worst weather we were going thru 100lb tank of propane every week but that was only for 2 weeks. Now they last about 2 weeks and whenever it gets near 30 the heat pump kicks in and we crank the heat way up.

They say warmer temps the end of next week WOOO HOOO!!! finally

Now about the 3 feet of snow that keeps moving around out there.

[FullTimer]

Ouch Mike. I was reading you guys are getting repeated bouts of poundings. 100# a week would break me lol, especially since the price hikes. The temps I'm seeing up there are way south of zero.

[Steve S]

I see what John is saying insulation has it's purpose, to keep the cold out, but once pipes freeze, it's a b*tch to thaw them lol, because the insulation holds the cold in as well. So you still have to have heat from somewhere, warm water from a heater or trickling warm water to the farthest point. BUT insulation will buy you time, and keep things from freezing to a much deeper temp. I thought about the spray on insulation when I did mine and thought it would be so much easier lol. I think EVERY trailer should be done that way.

I like what you have planned. I would do as you say, let everything thaw out, make sure there are no leaks and let the foam gun rip. But be aware, something like the FW tank, will freeze if the temps are sustained for multiple days below zero. Thus the extra step of installing heating pads. The ability to have a full heated FW tank, no matter what the conditions are. As long as I have 12 volts lol.

I went with 120 volt heat strips on the black tank and the plumbing for the valves, since they would be plugged in constantly. But if we dry camped in severe weather more, I would have opted for 12 volt pads there as well.

I would go the extra step inside as well, and put the pipe insulation on the lines. One thought I had, was get a large enough size pipe insulation, to totally slip over both the cold and hot together. Then you could trickle the warm, and that would also keep the cold from freezing. I even went as far as cutting large squares of 3 1/2 insulation and closing the outer access doors with that tucked on the inside. Think about it, the wall is 2 inches thick, the access doors are 1/2-3/4 inch thick, hardly any insulating properties at all, especially around the HW heater door with all the plumbing.

I like you're determination and am looking forward to you're progress. Thanks John for referring to that thread, I was hoping the pics and progress reports would help others avoid what happened to me the first week we had the camper and The Storm hit lol. To say I was in panic mode was an understatement lol. I will say this, it's a totally different camper now, compared to then. :)

I went and bought everything today except the tank heaters, I never had time for that. I saw one that just drops in the tank but I'm not to sure how well that would work. The blanket one seems to make sense.
I won't be able to run a trickle of water as I'm not hooked to city water, maybe in the spring I'll trench a line in.
I'm still shocked about what I saw down below but I kind of expected to see that and I'm laughing about it now. At least with me taking care of it then it's done once, done right and I'll never have to worry about things when I go out for the day.
When I was trailer shopping they quoted me $1200.00 to spray foam trailers:eek: It always made me smile as there's about $45.00 worth of product that gets used.:rofl:

[Steve S]

Steve -
So, does all your preparation and improvements include skirting or not?

Nope:D If 4 or 5 inches of foam which is thicker then the walls don't help then I'm moving back across the yard to the house:rofl::rofl:

[FullTimer]

I went and bought everything today except the tank heaters, I never had time for that. I saw one that just drops in the tank but I'm not to sure how well that would work. The blanket one seems to make sense.
I won't be able to run a trickle of water as I'm not hooked to city water, maybe in the spring I'll trench a line in.
I'm still shocked about what I saw down below but I kind of expected to see that and I'm laughing about it now. At least with me taking care of it then it's done once, done right and I'll never have to worry about things when I go out for the day.
When I was trailer shopping they quoted me $1200.00 to spray foam trailers:eek: It always made me smile as there's about $45.00 worth of product that gets used.:rofl:

Yup, when you do it yourself, you know what is what. I picked my pads up on Ebay, but you might have to forgo that if your weather window is short. If time allows, do take the extra steps, it will pay off in the longrun.

Eta if you can take some before and after pics, that would be very enlightening for sure.

[Steve S]

After washing dishes by heating up water and packing in water from the well I think my window is shorter then I thought as this is a PITA!
My cell has no flash, tried to snap a pic this am but it was too dark. I think the old lady has a flash on hers so I'll try with hers if she ever gets off of it!:eek:

[geo]

I'm surprised Fetus2 or JRTJH haven't referenced my posts from two years ago. Click on my "Geo"name upper left and search on "Posts started by Geo". About two years ago, you will find a long series of posts and pictures on insulating and upgrading the underbelly, plus installing and wiring tank heaters. The insulation was installed under the wiring and plumbing, and insulation was installed to isolate the plumbing from the frame. I also installed a fan and duct to move warmed air back to the fresh water tank area. Based upon the SOB I have now with similar insulation, I would say that Alpine would be good for temps down to -22C / -18F.

If you use Fiberglass or rock wool insulation, be sure to leave about a 4" (10cm) space between the insulation and top of the underbelly so humidity can escape.

Ron.

[Steve S]

Hi geo, I'm on my tablet and I can't do searches here for some reason but can on other sites, if you could post a link that would be great:)
-5 here, everything is frozen, trailer living at it's best:p:party:
There's nothing like learning as I go, can't complain though as we're nice and warm and everything else is working great in the cold.:)

[Festus2]

Steve -
Come Sunday or Monday, it will be a lot "warmer" and everything that is frozen now will start to thaw and you should be "ok". OK, that is, until the next time the same thing happens but by now you should know what you need to do to make your RV completely winterized so you can live in it without having your pipes freezing up on you.

And there will be a next time. Count on it.

[Geoffwhite18]

The polar or arctic package on these is absolute bs. It's just another marketing scam to make you think you are getting a better product. We have a 2010 Montana and live in it in North Dakota while I'm working. The trailer in open air without skirting is only good down to about 20 degrees f. After that the water line going from the water tank to the pump freezes. Any colder and you are screwed. The under belly has a dinky 2"vent heating the tanks and nothing else. The underbelly is not insulated, so it doesn't matter how much heat you pump down there it's going to freeze. The pump itself is mounted where cold air from outside blows directly on it. I could go on and on about poor design issues with this thing.

Needless to say the only way our trailer has survived up here is with insulated skirting, heat tape, and using 2" insulation on the storage compartment doors. They have no insulation what so ever.

[Steve S]

Steve -
Come Sunday or Monday, it will be a lot "warmer" and everything that is frozen now will start to thaw and you should be "ok". OK, that is, until the next time the same thing happens but by now you should know what you need to do to make your RV completely winterized so you can live it without having your pipes freezing up on you.

And there will be a next time. Count on it.

Yeah but I noticed that they think it's going to snow, guess the vortex is coming:eek::rofl::rofl:

Dee said to me this morning "Hey babe does this packing water and no shower feel like we're camping in the Teardrop? lol"
The teardrop is in front of the trailer, maybe she wants to move out there.:rofl:

[Western Traveler]

I know this isn't practical or even available in a lot of places but in a time crunch straw bales will make a good barrier for skirting in a pinch and they are cheap and sometimes free from the right source. Haul them and drop them in place then skirt any openings left. A lot of barley being grown these days. Yes not the prettiest but they will withstand wind, rain and snow for a very long time.
If you are on your property who is going to complain.
We helped an elderly neighbor who's septic system was freezing one year and it took all of 10 minutes and solved the problem for the whole winter.

[dwyleecoyote]

Steve -
Come Sunday or Monday, it will be a lot "warmer" and everything that is frozen now will start to thaw and you should be "ok". OK, that is, until the next time the same thing happens but by now you should know what you need to do to make your RV completely winterized so you can live it without having your pipes freezing up on you.

And there will be a next time. Count on it.

All part of the fun right?

[JRTJH]

I know this isn't practical or even available in a lot of places but in a time crunch straw bales will make a good barrier for skirting in a pinch and they are cheap and sometimes free from the right source. Haul them and drop them in place then skirt any openings left. A lot of barley being grown these days. Yes not the prettiest but they will withstand wind, rain and snow for a very long time.
If you are on your property who is going to complain.
We helped an elderly neighbor who's septic system was freezing one year and it took all of 10 minutes and solved the problem for the whole winter.

Be careful stacking anything "organic" around your RV. Straw will stop the wind, but it attracts rodents and insects, when wet will grow mold and many a barn fire has been caused by hay bales "smoldering" as they dry out. It might "do" to get you through "this storm" but as soon as it stops snowing and the wind stops blowing, I'd be for pulling the "hay away" and replacing it with something noncombustible and more "user friendly"

[geo]

Hi geo, I'm on my tablet and I can't do searches here for some reason but can on other sites, if you could post a link that would be great:)
-5 here, everything is frozen, trailer living at it's best:p:party:
There's nothing like learning as I go, can't complain though as we're nice and warm and everything else is working great in the cold.:)

So, Steve, I'm just curious. You can start posts, reply to posts, and can attach pictures to posts . . . But you can't click to use the Search function? Or click on the username and click on "Find Posts . . . "? That must be some limited tablet you are using, and very selective. And I trust that you do realize this is a Forum of future, present, and past Keystone RV owners - and that the Keystone RV Corporation has no connection or monitoring of this site.

Your 2010 Cougar probably is like my 2011 Alpine - the gray and black tanks, and the fresh water tank, have a 3cm thick R-7 sheet of white insulation below them that doesn't even extend to the edges of the tank. The galley tank has no insulation. The underbelly is a cavern of nothing but cold air. You are lucky, though, that you are in the warm Fraser River Valley - if you were down here in Texas' crosstimbers ridges it would take months to thaw out!

If you could use the Search Function, you would find dozens of posts concerning the Polar/Glacier/Arctic Package. You would find at least three members (including myself) who have modified their Keystones with underbelly insulation and some with tank heaters. There is a wealth of information to be seen from past posts from many knowledgeable members. You might try visiting a library and using their computers as a solution.

Ron

[Steve S]

Ron it's only on this site that the tablet won't let me do a search, it works on any other site. It could just be a tablet thing but I'm on my laptop now so searching isn't a prob.:)
I know that there's a lot of other other threads on the b.s about the 4th season that involves how great the winter package is but I started one about my delema here in mid B.C.
I know that this site isn't connected to Keystone but I'm sure they drop in and read and maybe they can learn, listen and make changes.
As for any insulating underneath there's nothing at all, not even anything under the tanks.

John, I agree with you about the bugs and rodents in the hay. The thing also for people is that once the hay is removed the rodents need a place to live and the closes place would be under the trailer and they will make holes and live underneath.
I've built house foundations with concrete filled styrofoam blocks that are 2 x2 by 18 and empty they would make a great wind block and being white they wouldn't look too bad!

[Geoffwhite18]

When you click on search you have to use the advanced search option. I've never been able to use the search on my tablet unless I click advanced.

[Steve S]

When you click on search you have to use the advanced search option. I've never been able to use the search on my tablet unless I click advanced.

Thanks, I just tried that and it works great:)

[Steve S]

K back on track here, while I was snaking wire under the shower there was yet again another cold area coming through the floor where the drain drops through.
This I'll just be insulating with batten as I might need to get to these pipes one day.

[BillnDeb]

We have the Polar Pack and managed fine in many days when it hit 20 degrees between November and January in Virginia, Myrtle Beach and Panama City Beach (we followed the southern polar vortex 😁.). The day we left Myrtle Beach, it was so cold, the water froze as it hit the concrete pad when DH unhooked the water. Common sense had to rule. We let water drip when we knew it would be below 32-during our six weeks out, that happened at least 10 times (we wonder what the campgrounds water bill is during these freeze spells), we used the propane heater and supplemented with 2 small electric heaters, one in the main area and the other in our bedroom/bath area.
We just bought our RV Sept 2013 and never dreamt we'd get caught in the Polar Vortex! Maybe we were lucky as we didn't do any modifications!

Debbie

[mguay]

By no means am I in the same caliber as "The Lord of the Underbelly", GEO...but here's a link to my Spray Foam job. Everything that I ..."might" want to gain access to at a later date, I wrapped in FG batt before I sprayed it. It will be much easier to get through the SF with it like that.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10892

[Steve S]

I guess with all this rain my pipes have thawed. I drained the pink stuff, pressure tested the lines @ 40 psi for 1/2 hr and no leaks. I flushed the tank and filled it up and I have water now!
I did change one thing out though before I started as my brain is in construction mode and it's against bylaws to have taps concealed in in closed cavities.
So I swapped out the tap and picked up a compression cap.
Next on the bucket list will be the insulation.

[Steve S]

K boys I found this under the trailer this morning and I thought is was dog turd but no it's proof that KS actually attempted to insulate the underbelly!:D
I guess the can ran out, the guy went to find another one, he got lost then the go home horn blew and he went home!

[FullTimer]

Lol, hope you didn't end up with to much foam in you're hair.

[Steve S]

I found this on Ebay, has anyone tried it? I read up about it from a dealer here and it must be used in warmer weather so I'm kind of screwed at the moment!
One of my suppliers said to just use normal insulation but this doesn't make sense as it'll get wet.

[mguay]

The substrate must be a minimum of 45° F and the tanks must be heated to at least 75° for it to work properly.

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk

[Steve S]

The substrate must be a minimum of 45° F and the tanks must be heated to at least 75° for it to work properly.

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk

Yeah I noticed when reading on the site that you can buy heated bags to keep it warm if spraying in the cold but I think I'll wait.
There sure is a price difference from one dealer to another though. I see them from $190.00 to $470.00 for the same product.
I searched another thread here where the guy did his under belly but all the pics are gone. This sucks as I wanted to see what he wrapped and left exposed.

[mguay]

Yeah I noticed when reading on the site that you can buy heated bags to keep it warm if spraying in the cold but I think I'll wait.
There sure is a price difference from one dealer to another though. I see them from $190.00 to $470.00 for the same product.
I searched another thread here where the guy did his under belly but all the pics are gone. This sucks as I wanted to see what he wrapped and left exposed.


Don't know which post you were talking about...but here's mine all spray foamed,http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10892

[Steve S]

Don't know which post you were talking about...but here's mine all spray foamed,http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10892

Thanks for the link, I was looking at it last night, looks like a nice job.

[Steve S]

So here's the plan: First thing I did was kill the power to the hot water and drained it, poured antifreeze in to the fresh water tank. I'm not going to mess around with hairdryers, I'm going to wait a few days till things warm up a bit.
When the pipes are thawed I'm going to drain everything, pressure test all the lines and check for leaks and repair anything not that I expect any leaks as nothing is cracked.
All the exposed pipes will be wrapped in the grey pipe wraps I picked up this morning.
All cavities will be filled and glued in with ridged insulation, all perimeter edges will be caulked.
The underneath of the floors and any other voids will be spray foamed if I can find my spay gun! I think my brother inlaw has it.
I'm also going to install a tank heater for the fresh. If anyone can point me in the right direction on this that would be helpful:)


Well after all these months the plan came together and it took me the day but everything worked out well."bouncey:
There was a lot of cutting the ridged insulation and spraying voids but it's done.
I laminated three layers of 2 " ridged and siliconed it to the bottom of the floor and sprayed the perimeter.
Anything that I need easy access to if there's a problem like water, slide, etc I have fitted cutouts that I can pull down if need be.
I truly am amazed @ what Keystone calls a Polar Package as there was nothing but dead voids under the trailer.
Here's a few pics of the Polar Package air space! lol!
I never took anymore pics as I turned my phone off and concentrated on the job @ hand and now this has a real insulated floor!
Now to test this out......hey look the Galileo thermometer is dropping, hope it means snow:D

[glenalt]

Subscribed

[mguay]

Did you take any pics of the completed job? Would love to see how it came out!

[Steve S]

Did you take any pics of the completed job? Would love to see how it came out!

No I didn't, I get so many text and calls during the day that I turned off the phone so I could complete the job. Wish I did though!:banghead:

[Steve S]

Also inside the trailer there's also dead air spaces that I've insulated. Under the shower base was the worst as air was just flowing through it.

[Steve S]

And the box where the cord goes, I can see daylight through it.

[Steve S]

K so even though it's been pretty mild here but yet it does get cold @ night my furnace still hasn't kicked in since insulating the trailer so I'm thinking that the winter will be pretty cheap on LP"bouncey:

[crash]

Holy Moly you have alot of remotes their:D

[Steve S]

Yeah and a friend gave me the monster of all remotes to control all the remotes:rofl::party: