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204Jordan
02-04-2014, 07:45 AM
We're 5er "newbies". Prior to the purchase of our Springdale, someone said Keystone manufactured 4 lines with varying levels of overall quality. (I believe 2 others were Cougar and Montana.) Can anyone enlighten me on the 4 "brands" and their corresponding "quality" rankings?

JRTJH
02-04-2014, 08:05 AM
That's an easy one to answer. Go to http://www.keystonerv.com/#

Click on "Travel Trailers", "Fifth Wheels", "Light Weight", "Toy Haulers", or "Destination Trailers" along the top bar (just under the Keystone logo).

When you select the "RV Type" a dropdown box will appear. In that box will be categories. For TT, the categories are: Standard, Select, Premium. For FW, they are: Standard, Select, Premium, Luxury. For LW: Standard, Select, Luxury. For TH: Standard, Select, Premium and for DT: only Select. Remember, the brand names in each category are alphabetically arranged, not level of quality arranged.

If you look at the brand names of RV's within each category, you can pretty well see some differences in types of end caps, sidewall material, etc. If you go on to compare the features listed within each brand, you can begin to compare construction, materials, optional vs standard components and when you study the photographs carefully, you can begin to see some differences in basic quality of materials as well as placement of components within each brand.

Keep in mind, the "descriptors" that Keystone uses, Standard, Select, Premium, Luxury are "their choice of marketing tools" not necessarily an "honest interpretation" of the brand name. It might be more accurate to use, "Cheapest", "Cheap", "Not so cheap" and "OK" You may find other descriptors" that fit your interpretation more accurately.

BirchyBoy
02-04-2014, 09:41 AM
Related to this question, why are there different floorplans for the East/West regions? Are some built on the left coast instead of in Indiana?

JRTJH
02-04-2014, 10:01 AM
Related to this question, why are there different floorplans for the East/West regions? Are some built on the left coast instead of in Indiana?

Keystone was formed in about 1996. In 2009 they "moved west" and opened an assembly plant in Oregon. The reason was stated, "To better meet the needs of our local buyers and provide them with the products they want and need" in "reality" it was to expand the business and move away from the "totally saturated" Elkhart/Goshen Indiana market.

I think (my opinion) that it was a way to "breathe new ideas and new people" into the process of building RV's for the US and Canada.

There are some distinctions in the way RV's are built, some subtle floorplan changes of the "same model" and some significant differences in tank sizes.

The Cougar XLite and Cougar Half Ton are a prime example of those differences. Both are essentially the same RV, but from floorplan differences, tank sizes and even availability of options, they are distinct and different from each other. Other Keystone brands are also built with two different concepts of the final product. This year (2014) there are some "test options" like dual pane windows, full underbelly skirting, improved polar package, etc that are being tested within Cougar and available only on the XLite or the Half Ton, but not available on both. Next year, the successful tests will likely appear on both brands.

Fortunately, there is some "bleed over' as to where the "east coast/west coast" lines start and end. Dealerships can usually get either model, although some won't work with a customer as it's more "work" for the dealership and they lose some of their "quantity discounts" if they don't keep all the orders from one factory.

In reality, the ability to offer multiple floorplans with minor changes is a marketing plus for Keystone because it gives them the capability to market to different needs of buyers and "fine tune" the availability of subtle changes in model differences to meet those needs.

BirchyBoy
02-04-2014, 10:40 AM
Thanks for all the info.

fla-gypsy
02-04-2014, 03:31 PM
Don't get hung up to much on so called quality ratings and buy what looks best to you and fits your budget.

JRTJH
02-04-2014, 04:53 PM
I agree with Fla-gypsy. It would be a mistake to buy a "quality' RV with a floorplan that doesn't fit your family's lifestyle, but has some "pretty" features that you may never use at a price that's over your budget, just because it's listed as a "premium" type RV.

Buy what fits your lifestyle, budget and family needs. Remember that the refrigerators, furnaces, water pumps, hot water heaters, stoves, microwaves, sinks, toilets, etc are pretty much the same from brand to brand.

SAD
02-04-2014, 05:06 PM
....Keep in mind, the "descriptors" that Keystone uses, Standard, Select, Premium, Luxury are "their choice of marketing tools" not necessarily an "honest interpretation" of the brand name. It might be more accurate to use, "Cheapest", "Cheap", "Not so cheap" and "OK" You may find other descriptors" that fit your interpretation more accurately.

I like! "bouncey:

JRTJH
02-04-2014, 05:11 PM
I like! "bouncey:

HA HA I wasn't sure if you or Barney would be the one to catch that... I should have bet on you :cool:

canesfan
02-05-2014, 07:12 AM
It might be more accurate to use, "Cheapest", "Cheap", "Not so cheap" and "OK" You may find other descriptors" that fit your interpretation more accurately.
I had to laugh at this, and sorry, I've been trying to be good but I have to add my .02. Not directed at any particular brand and the name of my last rig shall go unnamed for this purpose (it was NOT a Keystone), but "other descriptors" may also include "junk" "cr@p" "garbage" "trash".

Keep in mind for the most part that all the stuff in these things comes from the same few companies, it's how they put them all together, along with various bells and whistles and plushness, that really make them different.

limey
02-05-2014, 07:26 AM
We found that the best way to evaluate "quality" was to go and look! A show is a good start, but then find a selection of large dealers and go take a look. Things that we noticed were quality of cabinetry (especially doors), counter tops, mattresses, bathrooms and general "fit and finish".

We ended up buying a Montana because we thought it was the best combination of floorplan/space, utility and quality for the price. We did find another brand of similar size that was actually more money and we liked it a lot - until we opened a cabinet door - it flexed before it sprung open the latch!

We all have different tastes, price limits and use requirements - so go and look, you will soon figure out what works best for you.

Oh, and find a dealer you like! It is hard to find honest salesmen, but if you find one who will answer questions honestly, and not simply try to sell the one they make the most money on, stick with him/her!

204Jordan
02-05-2014, 01:08 PM
I agree with Fla-gypsy. It would be a mistake to buy a "quality' RV with a floorplan that doesn't fit your family's lifestyle, but has some "pretty" features that you may never use at a price that's over your budget, just because it's listed as a "premium" type RV.

Buy what fits your lifestyle, budget and family needs. Remember that the refrigerators, furnaces, water pumps, hot water heaters, stoves, microwaves, sinks, toilets, etc are pretty much the same from brand to brand.
Thanks for all the info, folks. I have a buddy who's pretty knowledgable when it comes to RVs (having been a Sales Mgr. at an RV dealership himself years back.) When he refers to a Springdale as a good "entry level" unit, my feet turn cold at hearing that term. We want this 5th (and to a newbie like myself it's very nice looking and in great shape for 10 years old) to last us a long time, as it will be pretty well stationary for the season. I just don't need unpleasant surprises down the road. So you're just saying "Relax!"?

Trent McCain
02-05-2014, 06:17 PM
Ask 10 people their definition of quality and you'll get 10 different answers. As others have posted what's high class to one is junk to another. My wife and I pull a 2008 Copper Canyon, in my opinion, it's at the entry-mid level range. It's far from high quality, but for what we use it for, and our budget...it works for now. We keep it in excellent shape as all our equipment, and when the time comes to sell, we'll recoup most of our investment. My folks pull an ordered new 2012 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ. They traded a 1998 Alpenlite that they had owned since 2002, it was trouble free. The Alpenlite, in my opinion was much higher quality than either of our coaches are now. I should have bought it instead of the one we have, but I'm newly married with a family now, so the Alpenlite's floor plan didn't accommodate that like a bunkhouse does. We are also starting to be on the road during the summer with our trucking company, so the bunkhouse is nice for me and the crew. Where the Alpenlite was a true 4 seasons coach, I'd rate ours at 2.5. From late spring to early fall it's fine. We aren't living in ours full time, so our budget doesn't dictate a $100K coach. You can have issues regardless of price. My folks were in a campground beside a couple with a beautiful Heartland Landmark, they were taking it back into the factory because of issues. Another good friend runs harvest and started out with a new entry level "stick and tin" trailer 10 years ago...drug it all over the midwest and had very few issues. Now has a high end 5th wheel toy hauler with all the bells and whistles. He's taken it back to the factory once already. He told me he had less trouble with his old $20K travel trailer than his new $100K toy hauler. Buy what you like and what your budget will allow. Next time we purchase, my budget will be higher, and so my purchasing options will be greater. What we have now does the intended job....it allows us to spend time together as a family....and regardless if you do that in a tent or a $600K Prevost diesel pusher motorhome....you're making memories that are priceless.

Trent

JRTJH
02-05-2014, 07:47 PM
Thanks for all the info, folks. I have a buddy who's pretty knowledgable when it comes to RVs (having been a Sales Mgr. at an RV dealership himself years back.) When he refers to a Springdale as a good "entry level" unit, my feet turn cold at hearing that term. We want this 5th (and to a newbie like myself it's very nice looking and in great shape for 10 years old) to last us a long time, as it will be pretty well stationary for the season. I just don't need unpleasant surprises down the road. So you're just saying "Relax!"?

Don't let the term "entry level" scare you. All that means is the coach is built with "less technology", "less fancy equipment" and usually "the old way"... In the case of Springdale, it means a wooden frame, .020 aluminum walls, thin cushions and small bathrooms.... Those things aren't a reason to skip the brand.... In my opinion (as a recent Springdale owner) the coach is well built, fit our needs at the time, was reliable and a great investment. We kept it for 4 years and sold it for $1000 less than we paid for it. When you consider taxes at 6% and the other "buy in" charges, that means we sold it for more than the purchase price.... I think the current Springdale models are 'missing the boat" in a few areas. The current management has resorted to putting fancy stereos, big LED TV's, porcelain toilets, etc. Now, there is nothing wrong with those type of upgrades, but they put the price of a "entry level" Springdale almost the same as a "mid level" Passport or Sprinter. I suppose what I'm saying is that some "entry level" trailers aren't really as cheap as you'd think.... Shop wisely and make sure your investment is sound.

BirchyBoy
02-05-2014, 09:42 PM
We got the call yesterday that our new Passport has been built and is now at the dealer. We're going to look at it this weekend and then go back on the 22nd to complete the deal. I'll be sure to go through it very well and try to identify any issues during the walk through. I know we're not buying the top of the line, but the quality seemed good when we were sitting in the same model at the dealer show, especially when compared to lots of other brands. Time will tell...

canesfan
02-06-2014, 06:28 AM
204, relax. :) As others have said, there is nothing wrong with "entry level" rigs, you'll find a lot of the same parts go into it as do the high end rigs. I was thinking last night, another thing is, an older model, if taken care of well, will have a lot if not all of the bugs worked out of it and probably some upgrades. So you're getting something better than the original. Forget what "level" it is, if it fits your needs than that's really what matters. Enjoy it and relax. Drinks on are on me. :)

SAABDOCTOR
02-06-2014, 10:46 AM
I was gonna but I figured i have caused too much misschef all ready!:wave:

Pmedic4
02-06-2014, 11:27 AM
Oh, and find a dealer you like! It is hard to find honest salesmen, but if you find one who will answer questions honestly, and not simply try to sell the one they make the most money on, stick with him/her!

The last comment that Limey had may be more important than the quality level of the RV. As you go through and read the posts, and see all the members here on this forum, It doesn't take long to notice how many different models, brands, and types of RV's that many of the members have owned previously. We haven't listed ours, but what I remember more about our purchases have been how the dealer responded to problems and issues. Dealers know the quality levels of RV's and how they are built, because they deal with it on a daily basis. When you get a good dealer, you don't have to worry so much about the build quality.

SAABDOCTOR
02-06-2014, 11:50 AM
HI I'll betmost of the poster here looked at the floor plan first, then looked at the quality of the build. as John said the important stuff,fridge furnace a/c stove hot water heater water pumps are all supplied byu a vendor and close to = quality. the frames and slides are lippert. when the dw and bought our first TT.we spent years looking at floor plans and once she found what she wanted we started to narrow the search to which brand and what we could afford. good luck