2013 Fusion 342 a/c cutting into roof

[Broose0]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/29/ane4uvy9.jpgAnyone having roof problems where the a/cs cut into the rubber roof? I've already had the roof replaced once and now its cut again around both a/cs. I've had this TH 7 months and the dealer has had it 2 out of 7.



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[Bob Landry]

Both ACs should be sitting on a foam gasket that goes around the perimeter of the cutout. It is slightly compressed at installation and anytime a water leak develops around it. If the gaskets aren't there, the units were not properly installed.

[Broose0]

The dealer doubled the gasket when they replaced the roof.

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[Bob Landry]

Then something was not done correctly. The gasket is one piece and if I remember correctly, has a sticky bottom surface. It's been a long time since I replaced one, so I'm relying on memory. Once the gasket is in place, the AC sits on top of it and the four long bolts are just tightened until the gasket compresses slightly. What is the material that appears to be cutting into the rubber and that the AC appears to be sitting on? It looks to be thinner than the gasket material I've worked with. My experience and comments are based on you having a Dometic or Coleman AC that sits above a 14"14" cutout in the roof. At any rate, the bottom pan on the AC should not even come close to the rubber roof. Maybe some more photos would help. The one in the original post doesn't show a lot.

[Bob Landry]

The material that he AC appears to be sitting on in the photo doesn't even look like the standard AC gasket material. It appears to have a metallic edge on the bottom. I'll try to hunt up a photo of gasket and post it.

[JRTJH]

If I've got my bearings correct, the picture you posted is of the outside edge of the A/C shroud, not the 14x14 opening. I don't know why there would be any gasket that far out on the shroud. The gasket looks like this: and is installed directly around the vent opening in the roof, not out away from the vent under the shroud.

[Bob Landry]

If I've got my bearings correct, the picture you posted is of the outside edge of the A/C shroud, not the 14x14 opening. I don't know why there would be any gasket that far out on the shroud. The gasket looks like this: and is installed directly around the vent opening in the roof, not out away from the vent under the shroud.

That's kind of how it looked to me but I wasn't sure enough to comment on it Also, the gasket has an adhesive backing that is exposed when you peel the protective paper off. When it is set in place, the adhesive is going to keep it from moving.The AC is going to sit directly on the gasket and when the corner bolts are tightened, there's no way that the unit is going to slide off the gasket. The gasket is not even visible at that point. The actual AC should never even contact the rubber roofing. It just looks like a bad installation to me. Shame on whoever originally did it and shane on Gilligan at CW for not catching it the first time around.

[FullTimer]

Some of the ac installation gaskets come with two long strips to be used under each end, so the ac doesn't rock on the roof, being perched on the square gasket. I would say the ac is bouncing for some reason, flexing the long strips down the middle (bowing it down the middle longways), causing them to pull on the roof material and rip it.

[Bob Landry]

Some of the ac installation gaskets come with two long strips to be used under each end, so the ac doesn't rock on the roof, being perched on the square gasket. I would say the ac is bouncing for some reason, flexing the long strips down the middle (bowing it down the middle longways), causing them to pull on the roof material and rip it.

Having installed several of these units, I have to disagree. the gasket that comes with them are square, one piece foam gaskets that are made to fit around a 14"X14" opening. They have an adhesive on the bottom side that keeps them from slipping. That combined with the proper tightening of the hold down bolts on each corner will or should prevent any movement of the unit

[Broose0]

The piece that is cutting into the roof is the sheet metal flange which I assume is a drip flange. The flange is 1" from the roof. I can sit o the a/c and rock back an forth an the flange never touches the roof.

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[Broose0]

Here is a picture from the first cut in the original roof.

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[Broose0]

Sorry about the double .
49054906

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[JRTJH]

Here is the link to the installation instructions for the 8000 series Airxcel 15K air conditioner. The 13.5K and the heat pump (9000 series) are all installed the same way.

http://www.rvcomfort.com/rvp/pdf_documents/1976256.pdf

The parts breakdown is here: http://www.rvcomfort.com/rvp/pdf_documents/r404_copy.pdf

There is a drain pan (item #23) but I don't think it is what you are describing. Take a look at the breakdown and see if you can identify what part you're talking about. It might help with understanding that we are all on the same page.

[Bob Landry]

Who is the manufacturer of your AC?

[FullTimer]

Having installed several of these units, I have to disagree. the gasket that comes with them are square, one piece foam gaskets that are made to fit around a 14"X14" opening. They have an adhesive on the bottom side that keeps them from slipping. That combined with the proper tightening of the hold down bolts on each corner will or should prevent any movement of the unit

Having personally installed my old trailers AC, the kit came with the square gasket as well as the two strips for each end of the the unit to sit on. The picture plainly shows it's not the square gasket ripping the roof, but one of the strips. When the AC bounces, the weight is in the middle of the strip, like a pillow, it causes it to want to bow upwards on each side when mashed in the middle. I would try pushing upwards on the ac itself from the inside frame and see if it goes up alot, it so, it's bouncing on the roof, either from being to loose, a known problem on some trailers even new, or the box it sits on is bouncing.

[Broose0]

I don't see the flange in any of the diagrams. I just received a call from the dealer and they're saying it's a failure of the adhesive causing the roof rubber to inflate. Hard to believe since I don't see any bubbles in the roof. I should have bought a Jayco.

[JRTJH]

Jayco uses the same roofing system and probably the same air conditioner. You'd have the same potential for the same problem with Jayco or any other EPDM roofed trailer with the same brand/model A/C. It's how the dealership installed it after repairing the roof, not the brand of RV.

I'd read over the installation instructions, take off the inside air box, disconnect the electric supply/thermostat lines, unscrew the 4 mounting bolts and go up on the roof with a thick blanket and piece of cardboard or OSB/plywood. Lift the A/C out of the vent hole and look for yourself at what's really there.

I've found that nobody really seems to care as much about my RV as I do and nobody will take the time to properly repair it as "attentively" as I will. Even the best dealership won't have the "pride of ownership" and "sense of investment" that I have for my property. They may fix it, or they may get busy and "just get the job done" I've no way of knowing exactly what they did to fix it or how they completed the job. Short cuts???? Who knows.

If you've got a great dealer who fixes things when they break, GREAT !!! But from what you've said, that may not be the situation.

[Bob Landry]

Jayco uses the same roofing system and probably the same air conditioner. You'd have the same potential for the same problem with Jayco or any other EPDM roofed trailer with the same brand/model A/C. It's how the dealership installed it after repairing the roof, not the brand of RV.

I'd read over the installation instructions, take off the inside air box, disconnect the electric supply/thermostat lines, unscrew the 4 mounting bolts and go up on the roof with a thick blanket and piece of cardboard or OSB/plywood. Lift the A/C out of the vent hole and look for yourself at what's really there.

I've found that nobody really seems to care as much about my RV as I do and nobody will take the time to properly repair it as "attentively" as I will. Even the best dealership won't have the "pride of ownership" and "sense of investment" that I have for my property. They may fix it, or they may get busy and "just get the job done" I've no way of knowing exactly what they did to fix it or how they completed the job. Short cuts???? Who knows.

If you've got a great dealer who fixes things when they break, GREAT !!! But from what you've said, that may not be the situation.

I agree. They all instep EDPM roofing and regardless of which AC they install, Coleman or Dometic, they all install exactly the same way. As far as as the previous post about the strips supporting the front and back, if the strips are actually included in the install kit, they also would only have adhesive on one side. The AC would simply rest on the strips/gasket and if any "bounce" were to occur, the unit would lift off the gaskets and not try to lift them off the roof lifting and tearing the roofing material as the poster suggested. Even if the corner bolts were left off, the unit would simply bounce and I can't see that.

[JRTJH]

I may be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that the problem is with the installation of the A/C not with the brand of RV or appliance. Whether it's a Keystone, Jayco or another brand, the EPDM roof, "hole in the roof" and A/C are potentially the same. The combination has been in use on literally "tens of thousands" of RV's for more than 30 years without this kind of problem.

I'm of the belief that either someone at the factory (during initial installation) or someone at the dealership (during repair/PDI/adjustment) did something to cause the problem. It's baffling to me to try to understand how they could "replace the original roof" (per the OP) and install the same A/C and then have the same (or similar) problem occur again. Someone is not installing the A/C properly or there's a damaged part/missing part on the A/C causing the problem.

It's simply not conceivable that with the engineering standardization that's built into the A/C units that one out of millions would be cutting the roof and the dealership "can't find" the problem. My guess would be that if they replaced the EPDM, they did so, and "threw the A/C back in the hole" without ever turning it over to see what's wrong with the unit. They couldn't have inspected and repaired the problem if it's still cutting the EPDM the same way. There's an issue either with the roof structure (wrong size hole, loose/broken framework, etc) or with the A/C (missing part, bent/damaged frame, etc). That's why I suggested the OP read the installation instructions, lift the unit out of the vent hole, turn the A/C over and inspect everything to find out what is doing the damage.

Something's not installed correctly or is broken/missing. Otherwise there would be thousands of complaints like this... and that's not happening.

[Bob Landry]

I'm inclined to agree 100%. Something was done incorrectly on the factory installation and the dealer replacing the original damaged roof did not investigate to see what caused it. The repairing dealer either doesn't care or doesn't know what to look for, I would hope it's the latter.

[Broose0]

The first time this occurred the cuts were only around the front a/c. After the dealer repair both front and rear a/cs were cutting the roof. I still think there should be bubbles in the roof if the adhesive was failing and there isn't any bubbles. That makes be believe it's the a/cs or the installation process.

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[tileman]

I had my roof replaced after we made a short camping trip to Ga then back home. I got up on the roof to give it a cleaning and boom there it was a cut around my AC.

So I posted a few pics here and then off to the dealer they kept it for over
3 weeks and installed a new roof they said it was from when they installed the
AC at the manufacturing plant.

Here's a link to my old post.
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7832

http://oi45.tinypic.com/35a7ock.jpg

[Bob Landry]

We can continue to go back and forth on this, and I think we have all made all the comments we can intelligentlymake based on a photograph, however, the reality is that there are hundreds of thousands of these AC units, different manufacturers, same basic design, and all installed the same way, that have been in use for years and this is the first I've read of any incident of this type.
This is an installation problem going back to manufacturing. The dealer repaired the roof without diagnosing the cause and re-created the problem.
Personally, I would get another "eyes on" opinion from a different shop, as the repairing dealer obviously missed this or simply chose to accept the factory installation to be correct. There just simply isn't anything on or about these units that when properly installed is going to cause that kind of roof damage. To go back to the same shop with the same problem, talking to the same people and expecting a different answer is going to be the ultimate exercise in futility.

One thing that I have not mentioned, nor has anyone else, is that the gasket material is i" thick, as well as any strips that may be included. With a new gasket properly installed, and the unit(s) correctly installed, the air conditioner is resting on a foam cushion, not even touching the roof

[Broose0]

Update
Talked with dealer today and the new roof rubber is on. They indicated that it was failure of the adhesive and the roof was billowing up. This roof actually has attic vents on the roof that when traveling down the road air was coming in the attic vents and coming up under the roof and through the sheathing seams and then up under the rubber. I'll be checking it on my next trip and will keep you updated. Thank you for all your responses.

[Canam]

I am having the same problem with my Fuzion 310. I first thought it was a problem with the A/C unit and install at manufacturing. I have the same cut around the front A/C unit, and I fixed it with a small patch. However after another camping trip I found the identical tear through the patch. I thought the roof may be ballooning up when at highway speeds, and I installed a Camera on the roof to investigate(see you tube video). The black tape beside the A/C unit is where the cut is and you can see the roof ballooning up and rubbing the material against the A/C unit. I am in the process of getting the roof material glued back down and I am hoping keystone will help out with the cost. (I am out of warranty by 1 month)

http://youtu.be/FAmoXaU1Xrc

[Timon]

If that's what's happening the it's a manufacturing defect and they should back it even if it's a month or 6 months out of warranty. As a prospective buyer I'll be watching this thread closely.

[Bob Landry]

After looking at the photos in this post and the ones in the original post, it looks as though the AC gasket may have been glued to the roof and possibly the up and down bouncing action of the AC, possibly not snugged down properly may have lifted the roof material enough and often enough to cause it to fail.
The AC gasket has an adhesive on one side that gets stuck to the bottom of the AC and just sets down around the opening with no adhesive. Another interesting point is that in both instances, the tear appears to be identical with the edge of some thick material showing, like possibly the plywood roof material wasn't properly fastened.

[Canam]

Just got my TH back from repair and keystone replaced the entire roof and substructure. My repair shop sent in a request for warranty (I was out by one month) and was going to patch the roof while waiting for a response. In the middle of the patch repair, keystone called and wanted to replace the roof under 'good will' warranty. After they removed the entire roof, they replaced the substructure and covered with EPDM. It is not as white and textured as the superflex material was, but hopefully the glue will hold the EPDM better than before.