Towing a Premier 31BHPR with Toyota Tundra ??

[SandMShall]

Hey from west Georgia. Our family is embarking on our quest to join our family friends with a purchase of a new travel trailer. I've always been known to do my "homework" prior to taking on a new hobby and this one will be no different. Luckily we will be taking our first couple trips with our friends who have had trailers for several years so I won't have to worry about backing my trailer into a camping spot. The plan is to attempt it myself until the campground traffic backs up. I'll then step out of my truck and let them back it in for me! Anyway...........

Our tow vehicle will be a 2007 Toyota Tundra limited 4x4 with a 4.7l v8 with the tow package installed. Towing limit is 7800lbs.

My DWs choice of trailers would start with a 2014 Premier 31BHPR. We recently took a field trip to a local dealer and loved the layout. The trailer weight comes in at 6440lbs. Dealer said to figure in another 1000lbs of carrying capacity.

I'd love to get some feedback on the above setup. We're lucky enough to have a local RV show that will be running in a couple weeks so we plan on spending an entire day learning anything and everything.

Thanks in advance for everyone's input and let me apologize in advance for all the stupid posts I'll be making in the near future.


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[Festus2]

If you were to include the data about the Toyota from the sticker on the door, it would help make a more accurate assessment of your towing situation. Note that the advertised/stated dry weight of the TT (6440) is most likely on the low side, I would not use that as an accurate figure.

It would also help if you were to take the truck to a weigh scale and get it weighed so we know what its curb weight will be. Don't forget to include passengers in the total.

Off hand without knowing some of the specifics, I would say that the Toyota is not capable of safely towing this TT. I would highly recommend that you consider either a 3/4T or downsizing your TT to something quite a bit smaller if you will be towing it with the Toyota. A TT of that size is just not a good match for that truck IMO.

[SandMShall]

I'm pretty much stuck with my current truck so the TT will need to be revised if need be. I'll post the additional information and weights tomorrow.


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[Ken / Claudia]

Another member and friend on here has a similar truck (Buzzcop) and tows the same trailer as mine a Cougar 24rks. Not sure what he upgraded but, he is happy and the weights are not over max.The trailer loaded and full of water at 6900lbs, hitch on mine is 900lbs thats real scaled weight.

[buzzcop63]

SandMShall:
Looking at the specifications for 2014 Premier Ultra Light 31BHPR that show a 35'4" length compare this to the weight of your truck fully loaded, my 2012 Tundra, two wheel drive with full gas and load with wife and I, no trailer is 5,560Lb. I believe the truck needs to be heavier to help control the length of trailer exposed to wind and buffeting of passing trucks. Also the specifications show a Hitch weight of 795Lb, my truck is rated at 530Lb, even with a weight transfer hitch I think you will be over the weight on the Hitch. Also dry weight is 6,457 plus cargo of 1,543 gives a max weight on the trailer of 8,000Lb, this is over your trucks limit. Wife and I love our Tundra but think you need to go down in length and weight to stay safe.

[SandMShall]

Here's a picture of the weight sticker in the truck. I'm hoping to get it on a scale this week.


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[SAABDOCTOR]

I THINK I'LL 3RD THE MOTION OF FESTUS AND BUZZCOP! You need a bigger truck to tow that unit. Remember you may be able to pull it but stoping it is WHOLE NOTHER STORY:eek: Good luck with the search:banghead:

[jljfstar]

We bought a 2014 Premier 30RE Last April, one of the first ones out. My TV at the time was a 2012 GMC 1/2 Ton with all the bells, HD towing, a blue ox hitch. I thought it would be ok but the trailer is 34ft 11in which is a little shorter than your trailer. I'll tell you its no fun with any kind of wind and when trucks go by just hold on. We had to upgrade after 4 trips. we now have a 2013 1 ton long bed and no problems at all. You had better get a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. The Premier is very nice, get a bigger truck if you can.

[RGene7001]

Expect to climb interstate grades in second gear with the amount of power you have. Both truck and trailer would be too heavy. 5.7l with six speeds would do much better. I would be looking for a TT with 5000 lb of empty weight, like my 2650.
BTW, even with smaller trailer, your tires look very high profile and soft with just 33psi off pressure, which is an invitation for sway to come.
Just my $ 0.02

[canadianboy]

I saw you would be a little heavy with that engine, I have the crew max that has the 5.7L and tow 10600pounds... I have the Bullet 32BHPR and sure the trucks haus it fine, but you also watch the fuel go down with it. Toyota can also tow more that what it is rated... I read it today on the tundratalk site but cant remember the full details

[Festus2]

Toyota can also tow more that what it is rated... I read it today on the tundratalk site but cant remember the full details

How did you determine that your Toyota hauls the Bullet 32BPR " just fine." What weights/figures did you use in your calculations to arrive at that conclusion? What/who is the source of a "Toyota can also tow more than what it is rated."? Does this statement come from a member of the Tundratalk forum who is offering an opinion or ??????

[canadianboy]

I'd be interested in seeing the figures that you used in your calculations to determine that your Toyota hauls the Bullet 32BPR " just fine."

I dont have all the numbers due to me not be home, but the weight on the sticker of the TT delivered was rated at 6300 LBS, when I weighed the unit on the scales it was 6150LBS, the total weight of the unit full with water, propane and gear is maxed out at 7500LBS, and the closest I have ever came to that was 6900 so far. I belive my tongue weight was around 700lbs, but I would have to double check that... the only problem is the fuel, but I am not going to by a diesel to use for 5 months of the year, that is a waste of money for me right now... And I am new to this, so when spring time goes I will be going across the scales again, cause as the camping season went I added new gear to the units.

[Festus2]

Thanks for supplying the weights that you used in your calculations. The missing and one of the most important part of the equation is the curb weight of the truck. That would include passengers and fuel. Until the TV is weighed, its payload/capacity really can't be accurately determined.
Glad to hear that you will weigh everything in the Spring and only after you do this, can you really tell whether or not you are within the truck's towing limits. As you indicated, the Toyota may be able to pull it but can it pull it safely? That, IMO, remains to be seen.

[SandMShall]

I took my truck to the scales this morning and it comes in at 5620lbs with a full tank of gas but no passengers. I'll add an additional 650lbs for our family of four and the total is 6270lbs.

I've been stressing over the TT size for several days and we've narrowed it down to a smaller TT. We're now looking at the Premier 22rbpr. Shipping weight is 4638lbs and it's length is 25'6". We have an RV show very near to us in a couple weeks that were really looking forward to so that we can get a longer look at all the models in our range.

Does everyone think I'm in the ballpark of choosing a good match for our TV?


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[JRTJH]

I took my truck to the scales this morning and it comes in at 5620lbs with a full tank of gas but no passengers. I'll add an additional 650lbs for our family of four and the total is 6270lbs.

I've been stressing over the TT size for several days and we've narrowed it down to a smaller TT. We're now looking at the Premier 22rbpr. Shipping weight is 4638lbs and it's length is 25'6". We have an RV show very near to us in a couple weeks that were really looking forward to so that we can get a longer look at all the models in our range.

Does everyone think I'm in the ballpark of choosing a good match for our TV?


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You are getting much closer, but let's take your actual weight and go from there. You say the truck with full fuel is 5620. To that you need to add your family (650 lbs) and the total is 6270 lbs. That leaves 630 lbs for truck bed cargo, hitch and trailer hitch weight. (Don't forget that you're going to be adding about 100 lbs when you stick a weight distributing hitch on the tongue of the trailer. So, from that 630 lb "remainder", subtract 100 lbs for the hitch and you're left with about 530 lbs. The Premier 22RBPR lists an empty tongue weight of 500 lbs. Add propane and battery to that and you're looking at closer to 600 lbs (60 lbs propane and 40 lb battery). That's before any cargo. So, already you're getting into the "too heavy" category and you haven't put anything in the trailer yet, no food, clothing, bedding, camping gear, toys, games, bikes, etc.

It's real easy to "think this one is light enough" and visualize the "extra 630 lbs comparing it to the 500 lb advertised tongue weight of that RV. Actually, that RV has a "loaded for camping" tongue weight closer to 700 lbs. (and you still haven't got anything in the truck to occupy the family while travelling and nothing in the bed (firewood, generator, bikes, grill, fishing equipment, lawn furniture, chocks, etc). Don't fall "prey" to going to that RV show and seeing something "really REALLY nice" and thinking, "we're OK with 500 lbs, so this is only 625 lbs, it's not that much more." That kind of thinking can get you into needing a bigger tow vehicle and you've already said that's out of the question...... You need to stay with a "LOADED tongue weight" of about 450 to 500 lbs maximum. The easiest way to estimate the loaded tongue weight is to take the trailer GVW. (empty weight plus carrying capacity) and expect the tongue to weight about 11% to 13% of that.

Using that estimating formula, the 22RBPR would be 4638 + 1862 = 6500 x 11% = 715 lbs (lightest expected tongue weight) and x 13% = 845 lbs (heaviest expected tongue weight)

As you can see, even the 22RBPR is pushing the very top limits of your truck. Depending on how you load your truck bed with camping gear/toys for the kids, you can really be overloaded even with this model RV. Don't go to the show thinking, "well, if it's just a little bigger....." You'll definitely be overloaded for sure !!!!!

[SAABDOCTOR]

YOU CAN DRIVE FASTER THAN THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT.... BUT THAT IS ILLEGAL TOO! Just my opinnion some will be different. sorry about the caps wasn't yelling, really.

[SandMShall]

I'm not too concerned with what's legal as I am what's safe for my family. What gets me is I've seen several different advertisements that will show these smaller end trailers being pulled by mini-vans and the such. If my truck is on the very edge of being able to tow this TT how can a manufacturer show these ads without any type of responsibility? I understand that's it's up to the buyer to do their homework, but this seems to be on the misleading side.


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[JRTJH]

I'm not too concerned with what's legal as I am what's safe for my family. What gets me is I've seen several different advertisements that will show these smaller end trailers being pulled by mini-vans and the such. If my truck is on the very edge of being able to tow this TT how can a manufacturer show these ads without any type of responsibility? I understand that's it's up to the buyer to do their homework, but this seems to be on the misleading side.


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Members of this (and many other forums) ask this same question daily. It's sort of like the vacation advertisements that promise sunny skies and calm beachfronts every day of the year. We all know that sooner or later, it's got to rain and what about hurricanes? But the marketers keep promising what sells regardless of "reality".

[Javi]

I'm not too concerned with what's legal as I am what's safe for my family. What gets me is I've seen several different advertisements that will show these smaller end trailers being pulled by mini-vans and the such. If my truck is on the very edge of being able to tow this TT how can a manufacturer show these ads without any type of responsibility? I understand that's it's up to the buyer to do their homework, but this seems to be on the misleading side.


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If you notice the ads are usually prefaced with the wording PROPERLY EQUIPTED

I've had a manufacturer's rep tell me that I could easily tow a large Brookstone 5th wheel which had a pin weight of over 3800 lbs with my F250 as listed in my signature.. then when I disputed that based not only on the documented payload figures on my B-pillar but on my tire capacity as well, he offered this advice... None of that really means anything; all that counts is the motor and your diesel will pull anything you can hook on to.

[Festus2]

I can understand your frustration in trying to ensure that you have a safe towing combination for you and your family. RV manufacturers and RV salesmen are both in the business to sell RV's and make money. That's what they do and I'm not sure what, if any, responsibility or interest they take to make sure that the RV that they have just sold is a good and safe match for your TV.

The ads you hear or see are there for one reason - to get you to buy their product. Are they misleading or deceptive? Don't you believe everything you hear or read?

[SAABDOCTOR]

remember most sales people want the sale no matter what. they would tell you a yugo will tow a 40ft 5er to make the sale. It is up to us to make sure it is safe to tow. our families depend on it!:cool:

[SAABDOCTOR]

ALL those ads are just amazing. you see we can't read the extra fine print at the bottom of the screen in the .2 nano seconds it's put there. It is up to us to make sure we have the right truck and trailer combo. just ask the sales person to put that statement in writting and the tell him you'll drop it off at DOT. and see what they have to say! I know i come off as sarcastic, but after 47 years in the auto/truck repair. nothing :surprise:me anymore. the last one was a couple wanted me to wire trailer lights to there dodge caravan and to make sure the trailer lights worked. I asked about brakes. they said nope then they brought the combo in.. they were going to tow 6 horses with out brakes with a mini van:eek::eek: They were really ticked when i said no! they went so far as to call the police after i told them they were way overloaded. they left after a round of tickets and had to have the trailer retrived from impound the police would let them tow it out. they will never understand! and some that post here asking if this is safe and 40 people tell them no but they go out and do the wrong thing anyway! (why did you ask?) so that said.... do you home work and put together the right combo the best you can afford. good luck;)

[buzzcop63]

JRTJH concerning use of 22RBPR:
The trailer is a 24RKSWE 2012 Cougar towed by a 2012 Tundra, Dbl Cab, 2wh drive, 4.6V8, tow rating 8,200Lb. Below are scale weights observed on 8/24/13, see how they compare to the above description of 22RBPR:
Fully loaded Tundra, full tank of gas, both wife and I and trip load, total scale weight front axel 3,220Lb (3,900 Max), rear axel 2,340Lb (4,000 Max), truck total weight 5,560 (6,700 Max). Now add loaded trailer, truck front axel 3,100, rear axel 3,180, total for truck 6,280Lb, (6,700 Max) leaves 420Lb unused. 720Lb increase with WDH to truck. Trailer attached to truck both trailer axels on scale, trailer weight 5,500Lb (Max 7,200), GCWR 11,780 (Max GCWR 14,000). Trailer stand alone weight Est 6,220Lb.

[JRTJH]

JRTJH concerning use of 22RBPR:
The trailer is a 24RKSWE 2012 Cougar towed by a 2012 Tundra, Dbl Cab, 2wh drive, 4.6V8, tow rating 8,200Lb. Below are scale weights observed on 8/24/13, see how they compare to the above description of 22RBPR:
Fully loaded Tundra, full tank of gas, both wife and I and trip load, total scale weight front axel 3,220Lb (3,900 Max), rear axel 2,340Lb (4,000 Max), truck total weight 5,560 (6,700 Max). Now add loaded trailer, truck front axel 3,100, rear axel 3,180, total for truck 6,280Lb, (6,700 Max) leaves 420Lb unused. 720Lb increase with WDH to truck. Trailer attached to truck both trailer axels on scale, trailer weight 5,500Lb (Max 7,200), GCWR 11,780 (Max GCWR 14,000). Trailer stand alone weight Est 6,220Lb.

SandMShall reported his actual truck weigh as this: 5620lbs with a full tank of gas but no passengers. I'll add an additional 650lbs for our family of four and the total is 6270lbs (This is without any additional cargo)

From what I can see by comparing the actual weights as reported by you and reported by canadianboy is the starting weight of what's in the truck. You report the truck (without trailer) loaded for camping at 5560. SandMShall reports that when he weighed his truck and factored in the weight of his family, it weighed 6270. That 710 pound difference will significantly alter the ability to carry a larger tongue weight trailer such as the one he is looking at or the one you cite as an example. I think the big difference's are: His truck without passengers weighs more than your truck loaded for camping and you travel with your wife, he's travelling with more family members, resulting in a much heavier payload. This heavier payload is what is concerning based on the "required payload" his family adds to the truck before considering the added weight of the trailer. You just can't take a truck that has a payload of 6900 lbs and that weighs 6270 when passengers are added, but no cargo and add a 700 lb tongue weight and a 100 lb hitch and stay below the 6900 lb GVW. The math won't work.

[SandMShall]

Here's another question in regards to the door sticker within my truck. How do the numbers for the front axle (4000lbs) and the rear axle (4100lbs) work into this equation?


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[JRTJH]

The axle ratings relate to the GVW but do not "add up" to the GVW. For example, my F250 GVW is 10,000 lbs. The front axle rating is 5940 and the rear axle rating is 6100. That adds up to 12,040 lbs. Why the difference?

To allow for load variability and still maintain the capability of carrying the full payload. Imagine the same front axle as mine in a diesel F250. That engine weighs about 800 lbs more than my gas engine. The axle needs to still carry additional weight when passengers or cargo are added to the cab area of the truck. So, an axle rated higher than the "minimum" is needed to compensate. The same with the rear axle. To carry a fifth wheel or a truck cabover camper, almost all the weight is directly over the rear axle. So to compensate for where the cargo is placed (and stay within the payload) the rear axle is rated higher than the minimum.

Also keep in mind that many things must be considered to establish payload in addition to the axle rating. Spring load, frame strength, brake size, rear end strength, overall weight as it is divided between both axles, and much more.

I've never seen a vehicle (car, truck or SUV) that has axles rated to equal the GVW. When added together, the sum of both axles is always higher than the GVW.

When I stated above that the "axle is rated higher" I don't mean that some arbitrary figure is stamped on the axle, rather that an axle is selected for its capability during truck assembly that is rated for a specific purpose. Engineering design, not the sticker on the door, is what determines the axle's capability to carry weight.

[buzzcop63]

.Quote: JRTJH
From what I can see by comparing the actual weights as reported by you and reported by canadianboy is the starting weight of what's in the truck. You report the truck (without trailer) loaded for camping at 5560. SandMShall reports that when he weighed his truck and factored in the weight of his family, it weighed 6270. That 710 pound difference will significantly alter the ability to carry a larger tongue weight trailer such as the one he is looking at or the one you cite as an example. I think the big difference's are: His truck without passengers weighs more than your truck loaded for camping and you travel with your wife, he's travelling with more family members, resulting in a much heavier payload. This heavier payload is what is concerning based on the "required payload" his family adds to the truck before considering the added weight of the trailer. You just can't take a truck that has a payload of 6900 lbs and that weighs 6270 when passengers are added, but no cargo and add a 700 lb tongue weight and a 100 lb hitch and stay below the 6900 lb GVW. The math won't work.


Reading over the numbers the key point is that my truck and trailer, loaded and ready to go with full gas tank has only 420Lb of additional weight that can be added to the truck. For us as a retired couple this is fine and having two wheel drive saved us about 300Lb but for another couple wishing to add more people in the truck and their gear they would be over loaded, as you have pointed out. It pays to do the numbers and weigh your vehicle and trailer.

[canadianboy]

is there a proper way to measure the truck on the scales to make sure every one is on the same page... when i measure mine, i weighed the front axle on the scales by itself, the rear by itself and then the whole truck together. Next I took my camper attatched (full of propane, battery) and weighed front axle of truck, full truck, and then rear axle and then trailer axles... is that the proper way?

I guess to get proper weight of dist. bars is to weigh then separelty than you have all the right numbers

[JRTJH]

Read this thread, specifically post #18. It will give you the directions you need.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14930