Add on furnace

[John R]

Has anyone installed a add on electric furnace on their rig? I'm looking at on made by RV Comfort Systems for a thirty amp. service.

[geo]

That would be the "Cheap Heat" system. I opened a post about this system last year. Boy, did it bring out the comments!

Plus and minus / pros and cons aside - the Cheap Heat is an "interesting" system. It utilizes the furnace fan and ducts for air distribution. It is basically a furnace distribution plenum replacement that has heating strips along with an electronic package to switch off the propane heating while allowing the furnace fan to run. The plus is that you still have this heat distribution to the underbelly similar to when propane is used. It does give one the option of using either propane or electricity from the furnace - and cuts down on how many electric heaters one has spread across the RV!

There are several DRV owners who have had the Cheap Heat system installed either after-market or as a custom order. I have also heard that several Heartland owners have installed Cheap Heat systems. It is offered on several high end RVs as an option or standard - such as Continental RVs, etc.

Some considerations in adding this system would be: 1) Is there enough room at the plenum end of the furnace to add this system? 2) Is there enough amperage available to add this system, or will this require converting a 30 amp system to a 50 amp? The low end system is 1850 watts. 3) Will the system justify the expense? In many calculations, heating with propane or electricity works to be just about the same expense (if you pay extra for electricity at your site). The worst case: cold night, the electricity cuts off, and both propane tanks are empty! 4) Another consideration would be the ducting in the underbelly. Before spending the money for Cheap Heat, one should probably untwist the heat ducting and "uncrush" it in the underbelly.

Ron

[SAD]

I enjoy reading Ron's posts.

[geo]

SAD - Thank you. :D

John - You might be interested in some of the discussions over at the Escapees' forum:

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=107225&hl=%26quot%3Bcheap+heat%26quot%3B#entry647905.

Ron

[theeyres]

I'm no electrical guru so take this for what it's worth. It sure doesn't sound like it would put out much more heat than a simple portable heater. And that sure isn't enough to really warm things up if it is cold out. If you can stand the noise of the furnace I guess it would help keep the under belly warm if you have that kind of setup and it is below freezing.

I always used the furnace to get the place warm, then the portable heater to keep it warm. But we make sure we don't camp where it gets cold and stays cold. Below freezing in the night was never a problem as long as it warmed up during the day.

[JRTJH]

Earl,

You are correct, with the 115 volt system, the maximum is 15 Amps which equates to a 1500 watt electric heater (same output as most plug in electric heaters). The way the maker of the electric "add on" markets it is to say that there's no "heat wasted out the vent" as with the propane furnace, so it is "100%" effective. They are "sort of" correct, it's true no heat is lost in the exhaust, but there's very little heat produced compared to the gas furnace. I think the conversion of "watts to BTU's" puts it at about 5200 BTU from a 1500 watt heater. That's a far cry less than the 80% efficient 30,000 BTU furnace with a BTU output of about 24,000 BTU of actual heat provided inside the coach.

The 30 Amp system isn't really effective, but when you get into the 50 Amp systems, they produce significantly more BTU's and can compete with the propane output. At best, the 30 Amp system will "take the chill off" in a moderate temp area. As you say, "If you can put up with the noise from the furnace....." I agree, it's not really a viable option when you look at the cost vs the heat output.

[mikell]

I have a heat pump and it works great down to about 28 then the furnace kicks in automatically

[Bob Landry]

I took the cheap way out. I installed a separate 20A inlet on my Outback, ran it to a double pole breaker mounted by the converter and then put in two outlets in the living area. I can run two space heaters off that setup without having it eat into my 30A service. It also lets me run a couple of circulating fans in the summer to help the air conditioner move air around.
We do nodo do much cold weather camping and neither of us likes to sleep under heat. In extreme or constant cold situations, it may be different, but this works for us and it was much less than the cost of an auxiliary heating system

[FullTimer]

I took the cheap way out. I installed a separate 20A inlet on my Outback, ran it to a double pole breaker mounted by the converter and then put in two outlets in the living area. I can run two space heaters off that setup without having it eat into my 30A service. It also lets me run a couple of circulating fans in the summer to help the air conditioner move air around.
We do nodo do much cold weather camping and neither of us likes to sleep under heat. In extreme or constant cold situations, it may be different, but this works for us and it was much less than the cost of an auxiliary heating system

I'm thinking of doing this myself. To "split" the load of extra heating when needed. We have two space heaters, one is a Broan (http://www.broan.com/products/filter/portable-dfb88c74-5224-4401-9e1a-1400f88718c6), a beast, but pulls some juice, so currently I have a cord snaked in, to run it on a 15 amp 110 volt on the pole.

But I would like to install an inlet and a small panel to cover at least that one. I would love to find a screw on panel with breakers and an outlet integrated. My converter is on the opposite side of the trailer of where I want it. So I can cut the wall, install the inlet on the outside, wire it to the panel and bolt the panel in. I have many years of residential and commercial maintenance, so the idea doesn't scare me.

[Bob Landry]

I'm thinking of doing this myself. To "split" the load of extra heating when needed. We have two space heaters, one is a Broan (http://www.broan.com/products/filter/portable-dfb88c74-5224-4401-9e1a-1400f88718c6), a beast, but pulls some juice, so currently I have a cord snaked in, to run it on a 15 amp 110 volt on the pole.

But I would like to install an inlet and a small panel to cover at least that one. I would love to find a screw on panel with breakers and an outlet integrated. My converter is on the opposite side of the trailer of where I want it. So I can cut the wall, install the inlet on the outside, wire it to the panel and bolt the panel in. I have many years of residential and commercial maintenance, so the idea doesn't scare me.

There are a couple of ways to do what you want to do. The top photo is what I have now in my Outback. I have a 20A Marinco inlet going to the double breaker, then to a set of terminal strips where i branch off to a couple of outlets. This lets me run heaters off the 20a circuit at the pedestal and it doesn't eat into my 30A service.

The second photo is what I used in a Class B that I built. The top breakers are dual 30A which can easily be swapped out for two 20A breakers. Then the branch breakers go where ever you want them. If I were going to do it with the larger paned, I would leave the 30A breakers installed and run it off the 50A service at the post with an adapter and that would give you two 30A services. not as good as two 50s, but better than a single 30A service.
I would be happy to sell the larger paned since I'm not using it for anything.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_105490_0_8f0bf63a92e8d30b376d7753a644fdc3.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rlandry6/media/20A2_zpse2f9b732.jpg.html)
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_105490_1_4f83b94bf55f0d27a83f3f65966ce3c1.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rlandry6/media/IMG_0153_zps8b2becb6.jpg.html)

[FullTimer]

Actually what I was thinking was something unobtrusive like you're top picture. Can I ask where you got that breaker setup? That would be perfect for what I have in mind as well. Nice job and thanks.

[Bob Landry]

Actually what I was thinking was something unobtrusive like you're top picture. Can I ask where you got that breaker setup? That would be perfect for what I have in mind as well. Nice job and thanks.

The panel is a blank panel and the breakers are a DPDT 20A, all made by Blue Sea. The outlet below it and the other one(not seen) are from Home Depot. Since I'm a marine service company and retailer, I older all my electrical stuff from my distributor, but it's all available online from many sources.

[FullTimer]

Thanks Bob, found them on Ebay. That would work great for what I have in mind.