New Cougar fun- plumbing, tires , pressure

[americanrascal]

Have had our 2013 Cougar 318 SAB almost 2 months now. Its been a real hoot ---but we like it.This is our 5th RV and our first 5ver. We love the layout and have had some of the routine break-in fun. All the problems keep me off the streets .

A couple of quality issue have been frustrating. 3 of the 5 tires gave up the ghost in the first 1200 miles- one blew out (not trailer damage thankfully), one bulged, and one had cord through the wall. Still dealing with Keystone on that one. Not sure where we'll end up on this issue. Replaced all 5 with Maxiss (so far so good).Keystone wants an axle hanger report before we discuss it any further. A real hassle to get it to a dealer as the nearest is a long ways from us but will do it to move the ball forward.

First week the circuit panel controlling the power distribution and landing gear burned out. Keystone and the dealer were helpful and got me a new part which was easy to install- just took a long time to get it.

The latest glitch has been the several leaks on the pex pipe fittings connecting to both sinks. Vibration normally would contribute somewhat to the looseness of the fittings , but the quality of the installation is the main problem. Keystone really leaves no slack in the pex lines and the feed lines that were so short they connected to the base of the faucets torqued at an angle--- no slack was left to straighten and correct the alignment of the threads. I spent yesterday making the fix--- not hard but frustrating. 2 inches of pipe --or more properly an elbow would have done the job properly at the factory.

Water pressure at the shower head is weak-- I may try a straw to get it out. I'm running a 40 lbs pressure reducer. Has anyone used a 55 and had better results or is that to high? Can't find anything in the literature on max water pressure.

Hope to get this all worked out soon.

[Terry W.]

Here is what I did for the low water pressure issue. I use a whole house pressure reducer set at 50 psi. This gives you 50 psi and 3/4" volume of water. Those little reducers are only about 3/8" in diameter. I'll try to load a pic but if it does not load check my profile pic is there.http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=302&pictureid=1518

[americanrascal]

Thanks Terry. Will give that a look see and might try it out.

I tried something else this morning. I took the little plastic restrictor out of the base of the shower head. While that may make me run out of hot water a bit sooner and increase opportunities for some shower excitement a la cold water, at least I now have a more reasonable stream!

[Roller4Tan]

In my first year of ownership, my first return trip from out west, the tires on the street side wore the edges of the tires, the front on the outside the rear on the inside. They were okay before we left. I got the extended warranty company to cover the new axles, as they were bent. I had to buy the tires though. I installed wet bolts myself, because the dealer had the 5er for 6 weeks!!! The shower pressure can be weak from the restrictor like you found out. I installed the oxygenics shower head, what a difference. So far no electrical issues. We like the 318's layout, but DW is looking :rolleyes:. I just got everything set up on this one the way I like it...

[hankpage]

X2 on the Oxygenics shower head, makes a big difference. If you have any more problems with sink fixtures (or toilet) try using braided flexible connectors made for home plumbing (Pex is too stiff for short connections).... much easier to work with and eliminates most vibration. If you use both gas and electric for water heating you should have plenty of hot water for showers. Travel safely, Hank

[americanrascal]

Thanks Hank- those connections were on my next step if this correction fails. Just checked the traps. They're loose also with a bit of leaking , but some of that's to be expected with road vibration. Tightened them up- all well on them for now.

[Jim7411]

If Keystone made perfect trailers, then we wouldn't need this forum, right? Think of all the valuable experience you're getting. In your next life you can be an RV tech!

[jerseyphil]

I have a 2011 318SAB and also love the layout.
Only 1 minor issue when I got it. The dinette table was a little loose, so I drilled a couple of extra holes in the base and screwed it down tight.

Have had it since Oct. 2010 and everything still works perfectly.

I DID mess up once when winterizing. I use the air pressure method and blow out lines, but I forgot to have the toilet foot pedal down when doing that. Well, this last year the valve at the base started leaking (it cracked). I replaced the valve and no more problem.

[americanrascal]

If Keystone made perfect trailers, then we wouldn't need this forum, right? Think of all the valuable experience you're getting. In your next life you can be an RV tech!

Yes Yes yes!!!- I do so love tinkering with it!:) Washed, waxed and covered yesterday.Plumbing the day before.

(although the tire thingy is worrisome-problem above my pay-grade)

We do really love this rig (out of the five rigs that we have had over the past 30 years this one is the nicest)- it really seems to travel sweet and the roominess is fantastic.

I only wish I could find a Keystone service department nearby that would support the rig when I need help with a problem-- and a dealer where I wouldn't have to leave it on the lot for a month waiting for service for some minor issue. But that is my fault for not doing enough due intelligence before I bought. Shouldn't have bought a rig 500 miles away and that didn't have service support within 40-50 miles of the house. (Caveat emptor?)We'll work through it somehow though as there is nothing we see thus far that is going to spoil it for us. Our enjoyment of it outweighs the glitches (fingers crossed)!!

I am considering plumbing RV's as my next career. Momma thinks just because I'm retired I should spend my free time mopping the house floors! I'd far rather tinker with the 5ver! A good bit of the rig is easier to work on than repairs on the old house.

I've been installing Hank's aforementioned solutions with shut offs and flex lines for the past few days. All looks great and works well. She'll be fine when I finish it all (today hopefully)

[Mike L123]

Yes Yes yes!!!- I do so love tinkering with it!:) Washed, waxed and covered yesterday.Plumbing the day before.

(although the tire thingy is worrisome-problem above my pay-grade)

We do really love this rig (out of the five rigs that we have had over the past 30 years this one is the nicest)- it really seems to travel sweet and the roominess is fantastic.

I only wish I could find a Keystone service department nearby that would support the rig when I need help with a problem-- and a dealer where I wouldn't have to leave it on the lot for a month waiting for service for some minor issue. But that is my fault for not doing enough due intelligence before I bought. Shouldn't have bought a rig 500 miles away and that didn't have service support within 40-50 miles of the house. (Caveat emptor?)We'll work through it somehow though as there is nothing we see thus far that is going to spoil it for us. Our enjoyment of it outweighs the glitches (fingers crossed)!!

I am considering plumbing RV's as my next career. Momma thinks just because I'm retired I should spend my free time mopping the house floors! I'd far rather tinker with the 5ver! A good bit of the rig is easier to work on than repairs on the old house.

I've been installing Hank's aforementioned solutions with shut offs and flex lines for the past few days. All looks great and works well. She'll be fine when I finish it all (today hopefully)

I would really like to see some pics of your finished plumbing lines. Any chance you could post a few up for viewing?

Cheers!

Mike

[americanrascal]

I would really like to see some pics of your finished plumbing lines. Any chance you could post a few up for viewing?

Cheers!

Mike

Finished up the kitchen sink this morning. Bathroom sink 2 days ago. All seems well. Relatively easy project, but a good crimping tool was a bit pricey. It was worth the investment though and I now may do a few pex projects around the house (like installing an exterior water service and valve closer to the rig next to the garage)

I'm thinking I may want a shut off and flex tube on the rig's toilet also, but am pondering it. Its pretty easy to get to.

Will try to get in there with a camera in the next few days and send some pics. Thanks all for the advice and guidance.

[americanrascal]

I would really like to see some pics of your finished plumbing lines. Any chance you could post a few up for viewing?

Cheers!

Mike

Here's my attempt at pics Mike. I may should have posted this on the modifications tab but am putting them here for you to catch.

I used a plastic pipe cutter, a basin wrench (I had both of those tools), and a Shark Bite dual crimping tool which I bought at HD for around $60. I plan on getting a good bit of use from the crimping tool as I am now a crimping pex fanatic! HD and Lowes had all the connections.

I used the full sized shark bite crimp bands instead of the narrow ring types which use a slightly different tool. I tried the crimp tool that you can use with pliers- which is much less expensive- but I never could get good crimps with it.

Not sure this will work but here goes my attempt to attach pics.

[grampscamper]

Very nice job. Can you come and do mine now?

[americanrascal]

Very nice job. Can you come and do mine now?


Probably can't make it this week.

[Mike L123]

Here's my attempt at pics Mike. I may should have posted this on the modifications tab but am putting them here for you to catch.

I used a plastic pipe cutter, a basin wrench (I had both of those tools), and a Shark Bite dual crimping tool which I bought at HD for around $60. I plan on getting a good bit of use from the crimping tool as I am now a crimping pex fanatic! HD and Lowes had all the connections.

I used the full sized shark bite crimp bands instead of the narrow ring types which use a slightly different tool. I tried the crimp tool that you can use with pliers- which is much less expensive- but I never could get good crimps with it.

Not sure this will work but here goes my attempt to attach pics.

That is some inspirationally, perspiritive work that you have done there! Congrats on your efforts and thanks for putting up the pictures. We have just set up camp here at the Big River RV park in Earl, CA. That was a long 2,700km drive for us! This little project should occupy some of my spare time here!

Cheers!

Mike

[Yosemitebob]

I also would like to see what you have done. I hope I don't have to do it as well, but would be nice for the mental library.

[grampscamper]

I noticed in our 5th wheel there is a very tight bend coming off the water pump. I think it's restricting the flow. There are also pex lines laying on top of the pump. I bought the pex fittings & tools. I will do some improvements when I take it out of storage in the spring. May install shutoff valves also.
Thanks for posting the pictures.

[americanrascal]

I noticed in our 5th wheel there is a very tight bend coming off the water pump. I think it's restricting the flow. There are also pex lines laying on top of the pump. I bought the pex fittings & tools. I will do some improvements when I take it out of storage in the spring. May install shutoff valves also.
Thanks for posting the pictures.

Looks like we all need to meet at a campground somewhere and have a pex party!

I do like the pex, but as Hank observed its just too stout to make good turns or to connect adequate directly to a fixture.

I noticed under the "shower outside" thread on the main page that Homer built a nice connection to the side for the water tank drain replacing the old pex cap on a line that located amidship underneath in the rear.

Maybe I'll try to do the same project now, but will use an "el" and a pex line to the side with a valve on the end and a cap. Another project I have been thinking about is adding a "Tee" and valve in the water pump intake line to allow for the drafting of water line antifreeze???? Any thoughts on that?

I'll probably need to stop fiddling around with all this plumbing soon as momma wants me to quit spending money on "fun with plumbing" and start paying for the new Maxiss tires I bought??? Needless to say I have emptied the piggy bank paying for all this rig tune up and fun. (and Momma wants me back mopping the house floors:( )

I keep splainin the benefits of all this to her but she doesn't seem to be buyin it.

[grampscamper]

Yes. A pex party would be great. I have a inlet for winterizing with a bypass in the convenience center. It came installed from the factory. I wasn't able to get it to draw the antifreeze. I did install a bypass kit but I bought it from an RV dealer. I think it was $25.00 or so. It was very easy to install & works perfectly. I have to remove a small access panel to get to it. Your idea of using pex would work also.
I know Camping World carry a bypass kit for winterizing. It is inexpensive & easy to install.

[americanrascal]

I also would like to see what you have done. I hope I don't have to do it as well, but would be nice for the mental library.


Yosemite Bob:
Were you able to open and see the pics a few steps back? Let me know if you can't and we'll figure something out.

Mike:
One thing I learned the hard (and expensive way). Either be well prepared and think this out with parts ahead of time OR-be next to a good plumbing supply store or HD or the like. I bought a lot of gas running back and forth to an HD and Lowes for a small part here and a part there. Luckily I was only about 2 miles away from one- but the constant trips back and forth for stuff was frustrating.It was a great education though.


Grampscamper- Ours didn't come with the bypass system (at least one that I can find yet). Wonder why yours from the factory didn't work?? I think I may have enough of the connections here at the hacienda to give the intake a shot. Will check it out and see if I can do it with what I have on hand. Where we live its rather mild for the winter and we always use our rig year round -rarely do we see the white stuff or extended freezing temps-- so I am debating just keeping some heat on in the rig when it gets bad cold for a day or 2 or doing the anti-freeze thingy. Will scratch my head on that for a bit probably.

[grampscamper]

Ours was built late August. I know the earlier build units didn't have the winterizing bypass in the convenience center. If I remember correctly the early builds didn't have the convenience center at all (at least our model). I'm not sure why I couldn't get it working. The inlet is a long distance from the pump & has a check valve. I tried a short hose & raised the bucked. No go. Bypass valve was in the correct position. Maybe the pump doesn't have enough suction to draw & open the check valve. I may try to remove the check valve. I tried for a few hours then decided it was easier to install the kit. The dealer is 2 hours from our home. I have a couple of other small warranty issues I will have them check early next year. I'll have the dealer look at it then.
The trailer is in storage now. I have a few projects to tackle next year. I'm planning to add wet bolts to the suspension also.

[Yosemitebob]

Wow, I didn't see your pics there before I posted, must be my eyes :eek: Thank you, that is just what I needed. I shall start my inspection and modifying before I run into leaks. Nothing worse than leaking water inside. Been there done that on a previous RV.

[trucker LOU]

Hey rascal, I added a shut off valve for the toilet as on previous 5er toilet valve broke.

[americanrascal]

Hey rascal, I added a shut off valve for the toilet as on previous 5er toilet valve broke.


Good looking job. Seems it needs to be done. Mine comes up through the floor I recall --but same approach.

Looks like you used the screw on pressure clamp type fitting? (can't remember the exact terminology for that type) How did that work out? No leaks I presume. Looks great!

[Pmedic4]

The Pex plumbing job looks good. Sort of sad you have to do that work to make your RV 'whole'.

It always seems strange with all the plumbing work they do for our RV's to not install a $10 (and that is conservatively high) bypass valve for winterizing. I understand some people may say, "We only use our RV in Texas/Florida/etc.", but the cost is so nominal for a $30,000 + RV.

[Cyncwby]

Just saw your post, we have a 2 month old Mountaineer 295RKD, came with chit GY Marathons. One of the first things I did was change them out to Sailun S637 235/85/16, G rated 3750 lb. 110 psi tires. They were $800 shipped to the house, bought them from "Rustybore" on ebay. These tires are EXTREMELY heavy duty and don't even bulge when the weight is put on them.

[americanrascal]

I decided not to install the shut off for the toilet. The connection came into the toilet with a proper 90 angle and its doing quite well and there was not as much room to work there as I thought. I will eventually add an inline cut off on the feed line in the storage compartment for peace of mind.

I did add a PEX line extension with a 90 el from the fresh water tank drain to the side of the unit and installed a valve on the end to allow for ease of drainage. No longer have to crawl under the unit and use that weird cap system on the end of the drain. I hung the line off the frame.

In the future I may install drain valves on the hot and cold water line drains up forward, replacing those weird caps up there. For now though I think I'm done having fun with PEX.

The tire issue remains unresolved, but I think I have the shower pressure thing nailed well by removing the restrictor on the head. Now I can actually get wet!!

I had not heard of the Sailun tires and could not find them on the web (didn't spend a lot of time looking in all fairness). I am hoping the new Maxiss I put on will hold up longer than the 3 weeks and 1200 miles I had on the tires that I got when it rolled off the lot new.

Good luck with the Sailun's they look pretty stout!

[americanrascal]

The good folks at Keystone got on the phone with me this afternoon and we worked through the tire issues. Between the tire wholesaler and Keystone I am a happy customer again. No- I didn't get everything I expected, but Keystone was fair and equitable with me and I felt in the end treated me as a valued customer. I felt like finally they understood where I was coming from with the tire issue.

We love this rig and look forward to many happy years of service from it. I do appreciate Keystone's response and attention to the matter