Spring Bushing Failure

[Bluewater]

I just picked our rig up from the local suspension specialist shop and boy am I gald I took it there. I took it there to have some Never Fail brand spring bushings put in I bought on the net. They have a forever warranty too. The shop saved a couple of the old ones and some sidebar brackets for me to see.
I guess the picture says it all---a total failure with almost certain serious damage had I not caught it. This is on our 2011 Laredo bought new in Aug of 2011. So just over 2 years use. As you can see these were just a couple of the worn thru cheap bushings they put in and the damage that did to the mounting brackets. One was broke in half. I'd strongly suggest anyone with a rig nearing 2 or 3 years old have yours checked out for safety sake---PLEASE. Just imagine what could have happened at 60 miles per hour?? I don't even want to think about it. These new bushings will be there when the metal finally gives up 50 years from now and I never have to grease them. Thank you modern technology.

[diugo]

This intrigued me a lot. I hate replacing suspension bushings, so I always wait too long to do it. I was all set to buy a 14-pack at Tweety's for $50 shipped---until I read this: http://www.heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/41385-My-Never-Fail-Bushings-Failed

Do your homework people!

[pjhansman]

Very happy with my MOR/ryde wet bolt kit.

[Bluewater]

This intrigued me a lot. I hate replacing suspension bushings, so I always wait too long to do it. I was all set to buy a 14-pack at Tweety's for $50 shipped---until I read this: http://www.heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/41385-My-Never-Fail-Bushings-Failed

Do your homework people!

Well diugo my name is not people and I have done a considerable amount of research into this issue. The Heartland poster is just one negitive in many thousands of positives out there. The dealer I had install mine has been in the suspension business for 93 years and has done over 100 of these exact bushing replacements jobs and has NEVER had one custom had any problems. He explains your rig must be square and in alignment to start with or no bushings will last at all. They said the metal parts will wear before these bushing will.

[diugo]

Do not get me wrong---I still like the idea of the "Almost Never Fail" bushings and may still install them (myself) in my rig.

But the Heartland post pointed out three issues your post did not: Spring eyes can damage the bushings, shackle bolts can turn if not properly installed, and, most notably---we never heard back whether the manufacturer stood behind his supposedly Never Fail bushings. It's been well over a month now.

[JRTJH]

Lippert is maketing a "Lifetime Bushing Kit" We all are pretty consistent in our "bashing the cheapness of Lippert products"...... Are the "lifetime bushings" you're talking about from Lippert or from another manufacturer? Are they "really REALLY" superior to the bronze wet bolt bushings? or are they a new technology that "computer testing and lab results have shown to be superior" ????

I suppose I'm just a little bit skeptical of new technology (just because a marketer says it's better) when it comes on the market. I'd like to see how well these "lifetime bushings" are performing in 5 years as compared to the wet bolt bushings. Then, if they are superior.......... :)

Of course, I still maintain that "real aeroplanes have propedders" so maybe I just trust the "old way" if it's proven to work ?????

[Bluewater]

The "Nerver Fail Bushings" are a spin off of Lippert industries amied at getting these out to the public and an info site. Lots of info helpful info here. When I called them they said to use these new bushings to drive out the old ones with a hammer..pretty tough.
http://themobileoutfitters.com/index.php/about

[JRTJH]

The "neverfail" bushings you've got may well be a great choice. I think time will tell. Lippert has a habit of claiming the "best results" and not quite living up to the claims. Hopefully these bushings will be a turning point for Lippert. Time will tell.

You are correct in saying that the "standard plastic bushings and shackles" are not to be trusted. As of yet, I haven't seen anything (other than Lippert's claims) to suggest the durability of their "neverfail" is as good as or better than bronze oil packed bushings. I'll hold off on judging them until they've been on the market long enough to have some history to support Lippert's claims of durability.

[Bluewater]

Sort of sounds to me like to have already judged them. Think positive.:)

[diugo]

I immediately likened these things to the teflon disc that lubricates the fifth wheel kingpin and hitch---a genuine proven innovation, much better than constantly using grease to perform the same task.

However, as JRTJH pointed out, the proof is in the pudding. If Lippert stays true to form and simply "dumbs down" the correct plastic, kiss your money goodbye. I truly hope that's not the case.

And as OP indicated, if your frame isn't square to begin with, any new bushings will wear heavily until that's fixed. In fact you might not be a good initial candidate for Never Fails if you have the severe component damage exhibited in the OP---because to me that indicates a major alignment problem that may require multiple expensive iterations to finally get right. That degree of damage shouldn't occur in just two years.

[JRTJH]

Sort of sounds to me like to have already judged them. Think positive.:)

No I haven't already judged them. I am thinking positive and I do hope that they turn out to be much like the fifth wheel plastic disc that diugo brought into the topic. When they first came out, I well remember people who were using lids from 5 gallon plastic buckets for the same thing and how they only lasted one trip (still less messy than greasing the fifth wheel plate). I didn't rush out to buy one of those either. I waited until they were proven to be worth the (at that time) $49.95. That innovation turned out to be a positive benefit for RVing. These Lippert "Lifetime" bushings may well turn out the same. If they do, then when I need to replace my bronze wet bolts I'll look at them as a good option. Until then, I know how long bronze bushings last and I know how long the "standard" plastic bushings last. If these "new plastic bushings" are two or three times as good as the standard plastic, they're not worth the investment in materials and labor to install them. But, if they last as long as (or longer than) bronze and do away with the annual lube required for bronze, then they are a great consideration.

All I'm saying is that Lippert has a very VERY poor track record in living up to their marketing claims. This could well be another "Lippert lemon" or maybe not... Time and real use by real RV'ers will give us the answer in a few years. Until then, they, like much of the other marketing schemes Lippert comes up with are, at best, a "pig in a poke."

Let's hope Lippert got one right with their "Lifetime bushings" :)

[Bluewater]

That damage came from horrible hiways and 25000+ miles is closer to the truth and reality. The frame and alignment have also been checked and found to be within specs. My whole intent on posting this story was simply to bring to the attention of others here to be aware and check your suspension regularly not trying to sell bushings or say one was any better than another.... I have better things to do.

[jsmith948]

That damage came from horrible hiways and 25000+ miles is closer to the truth and reality. The frame and alignment have also been checked and found to be within specs. My whole intent on posting this story was simply to bring to the attention of others here to be aware and check your suspension regularly not trying to sell bushings or say one was any better than another.... I have better things to do.

Wow.:rolleyes:

[jtyphoid]

That damage came from horrible hiways and 25000+ miles is closer to the truth and reality. The frame and alignment have also been checked and found to be within specs. My whole intent on posting this story was simply to bring to the attention of others here to be aware and check your suspension regularly not trying to sell bushings or say one was any better than another.... I have better things to do.

Thanks for taking the time to post; definitely food for thought.

[BobnLee]

I have a small 5th wheel 26SAB and I am constantly checking the suspension tires, hitch etc. As I said in a previous post my buddy is a heavy truck mechanic and its his job to do all my repairs and maintenance. Before any major trip he goes over it. This year before heading out I put new tires (Maxxis) (stayed with the D rated Diugo) and I had all the shackles, bolts and bushings done. Mine is a 2011 with about 12,000 miles. I would rather watch my buddy doing the job having a cold one than figuring out what to do on the side of the interstate.or provincial highway. Its not really expensive parts I think maybe 150.00 but not sure. I feel better now going down the road with new suspension parts and rubber Also had the back bumper replaced and had a real piece of steel tubing put back there. Now I can carry a bike rack. Bumper which was on a recall was falling off(welds were broken) new bumper 120.00 about the same in fuel bills to get to the dealer and fix the junk that was falling off.

[BobnLee]

I think what I'm trying to say is, It doesnt matter what parts you decide on It more important to identify the part that is going to give you a problem at the worst possible place and time (Murphy's Law). and have it repaired. I have to nylon bushings put on mine but I know I will be replacing them two years max or whenever it needs to be done.

[diugo]

BobnLee, I definitely agree with you, far better to be proactive than to have a suspension failure on the road. I had to completely replace the whole undercarriage (for $2000) in my previous '93 Excel because the former owner did not properly maintain the suspension.

According to Amazon, I can upgrade to the heavy duty Mor/Ryde wet bolt system for just under $100---or go with the Never Fails for just over $70 delivered (incl new shackles and bolts).

Either solution is pretty cheap insurance. And in the big scheme of things, even if I had to later replace the Never Fails with the Mor/Ryde, it won't be the end of the world...

[diugo]

Any idea why the Never Fail universal tandem upgrade kit comes with such ridiculously long shackle plates? My shackles are already long at 3.125" and these are at least an inch longer. And why the funny shape?

http://themobileoutfitters.com/images/stories/ArticleBanners/NeverFail-Suspension-Product.png

http://cdn.nexternal.com/lci/images/1439375.png

[jtyphoid]

For those who have experienced bushing or shackle failures, do you know how close you were/are to your axle rating? I know that the manufacturers use the cheapest, lightest (probably in that order) parts possible, but some designs, like triple axles, might have more margin than others.

[Bluewater]

Agreed, plus they all use the same bushings and shackles no matter the weight of the rig. Amazing ??

[Javi]

Any idea why the Never Fail universal tandem upgrade kit comes with such ridiculously long shackle plates? My shackles are already long at 3.125" and these are at least an inch longer. And why the funny shape?

http://themobileoutfitters.com/images/stories/ArticleBanners/NeverFail-Suspension-Product.png

http://cdn.nexternal.com/lci/images/1439375.png
Measure center of hole to center of hole on the OEM, I'll bet it's either 4.096 or 5 1/4"

[diugo]

Measure center of hole to center of hole on the OEM, I'll bet it's either 4.096 or 5 1/4"

You lose the bet, as I said mine are just 3-1/8. According to eTrailer, "There are only three sizes of shackle straps: 2-1/4 inch, 2-5/8 inch, and 3-1/8 inch", so these extra long banana shackles are driving me bananas.

BTW, it's not 4.096, it's 4-1/8"---there's an hypotenuse hiding in there :)

[Bluewater]

Are those made out of some sort of harder steel or made of the same as original? I think my failure was in part due to a very low grade steel used in the shackles. Just amazes me that for another $3 they could easily be made of a superior steel. Greed...the American business way I suppose.

[Javi]

You lose the bet, as I said mine are just 3-1/8. According to eTrailer, "There are only three sizes of shackle straps: 2-1/4 inch, 2-5/8 inch, and 3-1/8 inch", so these extra long banana shackles are driving me bananas.

BTW, it's not 4.096, it's 4-1/8"---there's an hypotenuse hiding in there :)
Yeah, there's one hiding in the other hole also. But as dimensioned in the drawing it is as I stated. I'm used to measuring as drafted, then again I use a CMM...:D

I don't think I would have dimensioned it exactly as they did but if it works for them...

BTW, I design, draft and program stuff like this for a living...;)

[diugo]

Yeah, there's one hiding in the other hole also. But as dimensioned in the drawing it is as I stated.

Nope, a straight edge reveals that the outer hole has no y-component and thus no hypotenuse. That's not the case with the first hole.

[diugo]

Are those made out of some sort of harder steel or made of the same as original? I think my failure was in part due to a very low grade steel used in the shackles. Just amazes me that for another $3 they could easily be made of a superior steel. Greed...the American business way I suppose.

You bring up an excellent point. Since the Never Fail shackles are way too long anyway, I am now seriously considering getting the $97 Mor/ryde kit plus 14 Never Fail bushings for $50, replacing the thin 3-1/8" OEM shackles with the heavy-duty Mor/ryde ones and installing the included wet bolts "dry" inside the Never Fail bushings.

[Bluewater]

I'd think any good metal shop could easily make a whole set of them out of much harder steel for a reasonable price. If I'd have known this that is what I would have done then they would last forever.

[diugo]

I'd think any good metal shop could easily make a whole set of them out of much harder steel for a reasonable price. If I'd have known this that is what I would have done then they would last forever.

You don't want the steel too hard. Specifically, the link must be softer than the bolt material. Otherwise the gripping teeth on the bolt shoulder could not sink into the link to prevent the bolt from spinning.

I am also looking into a better price angle, as the problem with the $97 Mor/ryde kit is that you're needlessly paying for wet bolts and brass bushings. But I am having a really hard time finding the 1/2"-thick links available a la carte. Whereas standard 1/4" thick links and dry bolts can be easily gotten for just $1-3 each.

[diugo]

It suddenly occurred to me that I can easily get 1/2"-thick heavy-duty shackle links for the price of typical 1/4" ones. How? By simply reusing my existing 1/4" links and adding a new 1/4" link to each side! Four links per shackle, using new 3-1/2" dry bolts and lock nuts.

So it is now looking like I can piece together my own HD shackle/bolt kit for around $38 delivered. Adding the 14 Never Fail bushings from Tweety's for $51, and I have a complete solution for under $90.

Now I just have to figure out how to safely get the trailer off all four wheels, here in the middle of the desert...

[Javi]

Nope, a straight edge reveals that the outer hole has no y-component and thus no hypotenuse. That's not the case with the first hole.
Yep, I didn't take the time to use a straight edge and was seeing it on the monitor it looked offset as well but after drafting it I now see that it isn't.

[diugo]

Yep, I didn't take the time to use a straight edge and was seeing it on the monitor it looked offset as well but after drafting it I now see that it isn't.

Nice drawing!

[Javi]

Nice drawing!
Thanks, I can throw it on the Laser and cut a couple of hundred if you want.. :D

[diugo]

Thanks, I can throw it on the Laser and cut a couple of hundred if you want.. :D

Just need 8 copies---reduced to 75% and printed on the 3D printer. Preferably in galvanized steel :D

[Bluewater]

Well, as many have guessed the NeverFail bushings have failed. I guess I'm still learning things the hard way. I had the suspension shop replace the whole mess with the Dexter E-Z Flex kit with the bronze bushings, 1/2" thick shackles and shackle bolts I can grease. I thought while they were at it best to replace the brakes also. I bought the whole backing plates loaded with everything new
from Etrailer for just $55 each and free shipping. last year was all new tires. I hope I can now take my mind off the the running gear and have more fun in the sun.