What technology is Hayes Energizer III vs Prodigy or P3?

[DennisT]

A few of you may have noticed I've been posting my frustrations with being a new person to towing heavier trailers and dealing with brake controllers. I have a 6 year old Hayes Energizer III p/n 81741B controller. Works fine with my car trailer. (Hardly need it the way I use my car trailer)

We got our 2009 Springdale 266RL late last summer, (6,500 pounds or a little more) We've only been able to use it for some 500 miles yet. I know as of yesterday that I've never had my TT's brakes working. (!) TT's brakes are near new, adjusted, etc....all good. Controller is mounted at a roughly 45-degree angle under the dash. (OK, says the installation guide) I took TT to mechanic yesterday. We finally discovered that the gain wheel operates virtually opposite from the printed instructions. Second, the instructions emphasize setting up the controller with the little, "Deceleration Sensor Arm, " pointing straight down, (vertical). When I do that I have NO trailer braking. If I move that arm towards the driver's seat to about a 45-degree angle I begin to have brakes. THEN, when I operate the gain wheel in the opposite direction from what the directions tell me, I get good brakes. Squeeze control delivers 10V at full squeeze. Gain runs from2 or 3 up to 10volts. OK? Not quite...

Drove to town yesterday with what I now know were non-working TT brakes, 85-degree day, asphalt country roads, etc., 45 to 60 mph. Arrived at mechanic's and, typical of me checking my newly-packed wheel bearings, I walked around the TT and all hubs were just barely worm. Remember that.

Then we discovered all that I mentioned in earlier paragraphs. Driving home, I had TT's brakes NOW adjusted so I could TELL they were coming on. Except, when nicely adjusted, and I braked gently 3 different times in about a minute, they became more aggressive each time I braked. Enough that I turned down the gain. Next mild brake application, they were poor brakes. Needed more gain again.

So I left them mid-adjusted and drove the 13 miles home; country roads NO traffic whatsoever all the way home. Brakes seemed to be working....I thought. Nearing our house, I braked gently/easily through 3 intersections.

Got out; felt hubs. All were between very, very warm to hot. Why?

So is this Hayes junk? How does it compare to the Tekonsha Prodigy or Tekonsha P3????? I'm ready to junk the Hayes if I think the technology is enough of an improvement to warrant the money.

I need help here. Things just don't seem right.

Thanks for reading all this,
Dennis

[ctpd814]

Have you read the manual for the controller? There are adjustment instructions for the controller. If you don't have a copy, I found this one

http://hayesbc.com/wp-content/themes/hayes/pdf/19044-3@A%20ENERGIZE%20III+XPC%20Operation%20Manual%2005 1221-CAB.pdf

I would try this before buying a new controller.

[DennisT]

Yes, thank you for your suggestion, I have my manual; it stays in my truck. I've almost worn it out reading it over and over. And I've read the one you linked to on-line, both of which still describe operation of the gain control backwards, (which is what fouled me up for a long time).

Right now my biggest concern is why the drums heat up so quickly with little to modest use of the brakes. And shoes are adjusted properly. Do all TT brakes get hot fast? And I don't understand why the little, "sensor," lever has to be pulled back at a greater angle than the directions want to have the brakes work at all.

Dennis

[Robby9]

I don't know anything about Hayes, but anything mechanical or electrical can fail. My buddy's brake controller (tekonsha) suddenly quit working after four years of use.

I had a tekonsha brake controller before getting my truck with the integrated brake controller. I never really liked the thing. It didn't seem to hold adjustments between trips and needed constant fine tuning. However, it did work a lot better than what you're describing with the Hayes.

[86GT2r]

Are you watching the red light for brightness when adjusting the arm per the instructions?The arm adjusts the pendulum to compensate for the mounting angle of the controller. I use the Hayes controller & I also have occasionally noticed the trailer brakes get more grabby. I thought perhaps this is due to the shoes & drums "cleaning" off surface rust that forms on the drum from sitting.

[allmi01]

to answer your question about the difference in technology betweenteh Prodigy / P3 and your Hayes, the Prodigy and P3 use an accelerometer internally to replace the pendilum in your Hayes. They give you a more controlled application of the trailer brakes dependingon how much TV brake you use. Not as truely proportional as a hydrualic activiated one (there are a lot of "old timers" who swear that is the only way to go and I don;t want to start that discussion for the millionith time) but a definite difference. The Prodigy and P3 both also have an initial brake boost feature to get eh trailer brakes to set ahead of the TV brakes.

I have used both the Prodigy and the P3 and liek them both. I have also in years past used the Hayes unit you have. They feel a lot different when towing. I also have an integrated one in the F350. The Prodigy and the P3 feel like the integrated controller and you don't feel the trailer brakes set up like you do with the Hayes. It takes some getting used to but oce you make that adjustment, you forget the trailer is back there from a braking prespective.

If you suspect the brake controller is your problem, its worth the investment.

BTW, if the drums get hot that quick, then you have too much brake set on the brake controller.

my .02 cents worth.

[DennisT]

Thank you all, this is a big help. Everyone's comments were helpful.

allmi01: You filled in a lot of gaps. First, you confirmed my thinking that brakes should not get hot very fast. Dragging them on all the time down a hill....sure, that's where driving style, initial speed, shifting down, (I have a 5-speed manual plus exhaust brake), and intermittent brake applications should solve most all heat concerns.

I'm thinking that replacing my Hayes is a good idea. I think getting rid of their pendulum feature is a good idea as I think it's problematic, at least in my case. From your comment, it sounds like both Tekonsha models are a technological step up and better than the Hayes in that respect and more.

All I want my trailer brake to do is come on, "some," when I brake my TV and my TT only needs to help itself stop/brake some, NOT in any way stop the whole outfit.

Maybe I'll look at etrailer.com for controller prices. Nothing locally here and I'm not familiar with on-line suppliers.

Thanks,
Dennis

[RGene7001]

I would definitely replace the Hayes. Six years of life is more than enough for cheap electronic device with mechanical component. Our cellphones and computers don't work that long in most instances. P3 is overloaded with features we don't really need for simple electric brakes. P2 is totally sufficient for any typical rv trailer and costs less.
It is important to remember that electric drum brakes are more effective ( grabby) at slow speed. I use quite aggressive setting and tolerate this grabbiness in order to make sure trailer brakes participate in breaking at highway speed so trailer pulls, not pushes, and stopping distance is the minimal, as well as the chance of jackknifing in the curves in the case of emergency breaking.
Another 2c

[DennisT]

RGene:

Just read your post and it's good advice. Earlier today I already ordered a new controller. I did get the P3, somewhat because it evidently reads out in plain language the voltage being sent back to the TT. I've been suspicious of the Hayes and what it's doing, so I hope the P3 tells me more. Only 20-bucks more for the P3.

I think I have no where to go but up to some improvements. Ha.

Good tip on, "grabby at slow speeds." I'll remember that. When I get it installed I'll do some test runs out here on our traffic-less rural roads. My goal too is to have TT's brakes come on a tiny bit before TV brakes. But I'm equally interested in eliminating my drums heating up too quick.

I think my Hayes may have become haunted.........

Dennis

[LittleJoe]

Keep in mind that drum breaks will shed heat much slower than disc .
Also that it takes about 130deg F before you can only touch for 2or3 seconds.

Electric brakes are inherently grabby at low/slow speed especially if you have them set high enough to feel the trailer hold back the TV.

[Andymon]

I just bought this https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/TK90160.html along with the adapter cord. I should have it installed today and give my 266RLS a try in about a week and will post back the results.

[DennisT]

Andy:
Thanks. I'll look forward to hearing your report.
I'm quite curious about the P3 I just ordered, (from the same seller), so things will be interesting.
Dennis