5.0 V-8 Cummins

[davidjsimons]

Nissan has announced that a deal has been finalized with Cummins to introduce their new generation 1/2 ton pickup with. 5.0 liter V-8 Cummins. The engine will produce 300 horse power and 550 lb ft of torque. The pickup should be available for either the 2015 or '16 year model.


2013 Cougar 28 RBS
2012 Ram 3500 Dually
6.7 Cummins H.O.
4.10 rears.

[hankpage]

If so and they put it in their van too, they are bound to pick up a large portion of the van market also. JM2¢

[Cougarfamily]

Wonder if this also means that they will bring out a 3/4 ton truck? Would give heavier duty towers another option.

[fla-gypsy]

I long for the day when all of the makers offer a smaller diesel option with similar numbers for the 3/4 ton market. I would be very interested in a 500 ft lb diesel that could squeeze some real fuel mileage. I have no need for or interest in a 800 ft lb behemoth that barely does better than my gasser on fuel.

[mobile42]

Boy do I agree with you Fla-Gypsy!

[BeerCan]

That 5L Cummins seems overly large for the 1/2 ton segment. I think it will get mindshare in the beginning but MPG realities may stifle its growth. I just think it is to much engine for a 1/2 ton in this day and age of high fuel prices.

Now if it goes in a 3/4 ton :thumbsup:

[hankpage]

Beer Can, I don't see the smaller V8 producing the torque required to tow in the heavier 3/4 ton truck. The 5.9L I6 filled that slot just fine until federal emissions standards made mpg drop. I am hopeful that this new engine will fit into many areas of the market that have been ignored in the past. It is about time. JM2¢, Hank

[BeerCan]

Beer Can, I don't see the smaller V8 producing the torque required to tow in the heavier 3/4 ton truck. The 5.9L I6 filled that slot just fine until federal emissions standards made mpg drop. I am hopeful that this new engine will fit into many areas of the market that have been ignored in the past. It is about time. JM2¢, Hank

I think if it geared right 550 will be more than enough.

The 5.9 was rated lower than this new engine right? I thought the 12v was in the low 400's and the 24v in the mid 400's to low 500's?

[hankpage]

I owned a '94 12v 5.9l for 10 years and was very pleased with it's 160 hp and 400 ftlbs. It gave me 25-26 mpg hwy and 11 to 13 towing. When I replaced it in '04.5 with a 24v 5.9l 325hp 600ftlb I was not surprised that my hwy mpg dropped to 22-24 mpg. but amazed at the 14-16.8 towing the same trailer. The theory that "You have to feed the ponies" seems to go out the window when it comes to towing with a diesel. My opinion is that the lighter smaller V8 will not develop the torque low enough in the power range to be used in the heavier 3/4 ton market. When it comes to torque you can not compare an inline 6 to a V8 of the same size even in gas engines. (ask any short track stock car racer)
I don't want to start a "Mine's bigger than your's" argument ... this is my opinion based on my experience none of which with light duty engines ... all with medium and heavy duty diesels. I just don't feel that smaller lighter engines will hold up to the demands that folks put on their 3/4 and 1 tons. I too would love to see 30mpg+ in a 3/4 ton but in the real world I don't see it having tow ratings even close to todays 3/4s.

[JRTJH]

My 99 Superduty 7.3L turbodiesel was rated at 235HP/500ftlb torque. Granted it was a "big engine" compared to the smaller Cummins that Nissan is considering. The Dodge V6 diesel scheduled for the RAM 1500 is rated close to where my superduty was rated in HP/torque. (240 HP/420FtLb torque).

I would think (might be waaaaay wrong) that if Cummins is putting a turbo on it and getting 500 ftlb of torque that the HP rating should be somewhere close to what I got with the superduty. If so, then the towing performance "ought to be" pretty darned close too. That being said, I was very pleased with the towing capability of my superduty. It pulled a 34' Holiday Rambler travel trailer weighing about 8600 lbs (wet) with no difficulty. I'd think that a similar rated "smaller Cummins" should get pretty close to the same performance capability whether it's in a half ton or a 3/4 ton chassis. Maybe Nissan is considering a "super heavy duty half ton" ????

[SAD]

Wonder if this also means that they will bring out a 3/4 ton truck? Would give heavier duty towers another option.

All we can do is speculate at this point.

I personally doubt they would enter into the 3/4 ton market with it. The market is now filled with 400/800 motors. It simply couldn't be competitive.

My suspicion is its for fuel economy or light duty fleets. Just a guess though.

[davidjsimons]

My 99 Superduty 7.3L turbodiesel was rated at 235HP/500ftlb torque. Granted it was a "big engine" compared to the smaller Cummins that Nissan is considering. The Dodge V6 diesel scheduled for the RAM 1500 is rated close to where my superduty was rated in HP/torque. (240 HP/420FtLb torque).

I would think (might be waaaaay wrong) that if Cummins is putting a turbo on it and getting 500 ftlb of torque that the HP rating should be somewhere close to what I got with the superduty. If so, then the towing performance "ought to be" pretty darned close too. That being said, I was very pleased with the towing capability of my superduty. It pulled a 34' Holiday Rambler travel trailer weighing about 8600 lbs (wet) with no difficulty. I'd think that a similar rated "smaller Cummins" should get pretty close to the same performance capability whether it's in a half ton or a 3/4 ton chassis. Maybe Nissan is considering a "super heavy duty half ton" ????

A lot of your assumptions are correct indeed if the rpm's for the torque output is similar. Of course the lower the rpm's the better for towing. The biggest drawback for low-end torque will rest in the stroke of the small V-8 configuration. This engine will be better suited for fuel mileage rather than massive towing capabilities. Just as a reference and a reminder, my 1990 W-250 Dodge with its Cummins in line six is only 160 hp and 400 lb ft of torque, but it gets the 400 at 1600 rpm's, but you have to consider the length of the stroke in that engine. In its day, that truck was considered capable of moving mountains. Actually, I did pull a K-100 Kenworth with a prefabricated house on the trailer out of a ditch on my way home with it one day. I love what has become of the light duty truck market in the past 25 years. At any rate, there is a place in the market for such an offering and I'm glad to see Ram and Nissan offering models to the pickup buying public.


2013 Cougar 28 RBS
2012 Ram 3500 Dually
6.7 Cummins H.O.
4.10 rears.

[JRTJH]

One thing that hasn't been "figured into" the new Cummins application is the transmission. In older trucks, there were usually 3 speed transmissios, sometimes with an overdrive, sometimes not. New 6 and 8 speed transmission can easily be geared to get the engine to its "torque curve max" almost before the wheels start turning. That was almost impossible to do on older diesels. Keeping the engine is its power band was hard to do and, as you say, David, producing the maximum torque at low RPM is important in that application. Today, producing the maximum torque, even in an engine that doesn't start producing it until 1800-2200 RPM can be managed through the turbo and transmission.

I see great applications for an engine this size not only for fuel economy in lighter trucks but also for "light/medium towing" in applications where 450HP and 800 FtLb of torque really aren't required, but is the only option other than a gas engine. An 8 speed transmission could easily be adapted to provide overdrive and "super overdrive" gearing for economy and a "tow/haul" lockkout of that feature to provide "high torque performance" at towing speeds

Mercedes/Sprinter are already producing a diesel chassis for motorhome builders with a 3L V-6 diesel that hauls a GVW of 15,000 lbs pretty easily. Its off the line performance (in its stock form) is brisker than the 450 HP/800 ftlb torque "full size motorhomes. In its weight range, theres a pretty impressive performance capability to "rival" the performance of bigger engines (in their weight category).

Granted, a 5.0L Cummins will never compete "head to head" with the "big power producers" but for some buyers, it would fit their need perfectly. Honestly, it all depends on how many buyers the manufacturer thinks he can lure to their market offerings and how Nissan (and Dodge) engineer the truck driveline and for what purpose they market it. The capability is there, now it's just a matter of "IF" it remains on the wish list or if one of the manufacturers produces it.