2 Grey Water Tanks - Not one as Dealer had said!

[ChateauED]

When we were doing our walkthrough prior to delivery my husband was looking under the rv and noticed a 3rd tank. However, in the "water works" center, there were only 2 levers to pull to empty the tanks. That would be one for grey, and one for black. He mentioned the third tank and was told "there are only two tanks, one for black and one for grey". After setting up our RV on our property, and examining further there is indeed a third tank and the release lever is nowhere near the "water works" area where the other levers are located. The lever is on the back side in the rear, behind the rear tire well. This is the lever that drains the grey water from the tank that holds the water from the kitchen sink. Just FYI....

2013 Alpine 3555rl

[suza]

Our 279RKS also has this lever. Keystone really should have labeled it as such. We discovered there was a 2nd grey tank by the indicator light on the control panel labeled "Galley", and found the lever by searching the perimeter of exterior. Our question was, where does this tank drain? Into the black tank or the bathroom grey tank? Couldn't find this info anywhere in the manual. Wondering what order to pull the levers - Black, galley grey, then bathroom grey makes the most sense. What do others do?

Maybe we missed something, but this seems to me like another case of Keystone keeping the customer "in the dark".

With so many variations from unit to unit, I think the dealer should offer a follow-up training after new owners have had their RV out a time or two. It would certainly save them a lot of annoying phone calls.

[Festus2]

With so many variations from unit to unit, I think the dealer should offer a follow-up training after new owners have had their RV out a time or two. It would certainly save them a lot of annoying phone calls.

Susan -
The problem is, as ChateauED discovered, that some dealers or their staff do not have a thorough understanding of the disposal system found on the various models of RV's sitting on their lot. As you pointed out, they are not all the same and are configured differently depending upon the year and model.

This is why a buyer needs to ask the right questions and know what to look for before they drive off with their new RV in tow. IF the folks at the dealership know their units and the customer does a thorough PDI check, these kinds of frustrations should not happen.

When discussing the various tanks and pull valves, the customer should ask how many tanks there are, their location, where and how they drain, where all the pull valves are located and ensure that they are properly labeled. Ask for a demo using fresh clear water that has been dumped into each system/tank.

If the guy who is doing the walk-through with you seems the least bit hesitant or vague when answering your questions, ask for another tech to come out.

The key is to go into the dealership thoroughly prepared and ask the right questions and have someone who knows what they are talking about answer them correctly for you. I know, it's easier said than done. :banghead:

[diugo]

On my trailer, the galley tank drains directly into the main drain line, just behind the cap. I promptly added a fourth twist-on master valve (Valterra T58) so that I can quickly backflush the black tank with gray water from the shower.

So my draining sequence is: open master, open black, drain, close master, open shower gray, backflush, open master, drain, open galley gray, drain, close black, close both grays, close master.

[suza]

Susan -
The problem is, as ChateauED discovered, that some dealers or their staff do not have a thorough understanding of the disposal system found on the various models of RV's sitting on their lot. As you pointed out, they are not all the same and are configured differently depending upon the year and model.

This is why a buyer needs to ask the right questions and know what to look for before they drive off with their new RV in tow. IF the folks at the dealership know their units and the customer does a thorough PDI check, these kinds of frustrations should not happen.

When discussing the various tanks and pull valves, the customer should ask how many tanks there are, their location, where and how they drain, where all the pull valves are located and ensure that they are properly labeled. Ask for a demo using fresh clear water that has been dumped into each system/tank.

If the guy who is doing the walk-through with you seems the least bit hesitant or vague when answering your questions, ask for another tech to come out.

The key is to go into the dealership thoroughly prepared and ask the right questions and have someone who knows what they are talking about answer them correctly for you. I know, it's easier said than done. :banghead:

All well, in theory, but do you remember the "deer in the headlights" feeling when you purchased your first RV :rolleyes:

I agree, that the dealers don't always have a thorough understanding of the disposal system found on the various models of RV's sitting on their lot. Case in point: We thought we knew where the drain for the fresh water tank was. The first time we went to drain it, we were confused because the outlet pipe was red, so we thought "hot water". Wrong. After calling the tech, who had to go out and check several units on the lot, an hour later, someone who was more savvy called back and said, that was it. Seems the color meant nothing. Would building codes permit a plumber to use red Pex for cold water :confused: I think not. Keystone must have had a surplus of red hose, or the installer was color blind - LOL
Oh, the joys of RV ownership. But, then, it beats camping in a tent :D

[suza]

On my trailer, the galley tank drains directly into the main drain line, just behind the cap. I promptly added a fourth twist-on master valve (Valterra T58) so that I can quickly backflush the black tank with gray water from the shower.

So my draining sequence is: open master, open black, drain, close master, open shower gray, backflush, open master, drain, open galley gray, drain, close black, close both grays, close master.

Thanks, diugo

[Jim Dow]

It happened to me too. Dealer said "one grey/one black tank".

When I called to tell him my sink was overflowing, he said "Bring it in under extended warranty; and we will fix it." Neither the dealer salesman not the maintenance supervisor could tell me where the second grey tank flush valve was located on my trailer. But, then again, maybe he did know what he was doing.

I looked and looked and finally found an unlabeled handle that looked like a flush valve handle in front of the driver's side front wheel - black and definitely hidden. I pulled it and voilla, the sink drained.

By the way, not all of us know what the "right questions" are when we are buying a new camper. But then again, as long as nobody gets hurt, that's part of the fun!

[theeyres]

That second gray water drain is the pits! I don't know why Keystone didn't just connect both gray water tanks or tie it all together into one tank. It makes draining a whole lot more difficult just to save Keystone a few $$. And none of the written info mentions two tanks. I still don't know if the total gallons is for both tanks combined or for just the main one. Nothing, anywhere, talks about it.

[fred1609]

If I were to guess I would think it has something to do with managing the weight of liquids. Those who boondock might leave their site with full tanks and that might be problematic if all the tanks were located at one end of the rig (water is about 7.5 lbs per sq foot per gallon) JMO

[JRTJH]

Part is management of weight, part is being able to tuck large quantities of water storage in available spaces (it's easier to build in two smaller tanks than make space for one large one), part is cost and part is to make the RV as "efficient" as possible by not storing all the waste in one space. There were times (not long ago) when RV's had no tanks, then came the innoviation of one small black tank. Next came putting all the waste water into that black tank and making it bigger, then came the realization that gray water could be dumped on the ground in some areas, so separate tanks and now evolution continues with mulitple tanks both in black and in gray water storage.

If the two gray tanks were plumbed to one valve, the drain lines would have to still be on a "drain slope" which means they would have to be exposed below the coroplast. Not a good idea for cold weather camping... So, two valves, tucked up inside to keep all waterfilled lines warm makes sense to me. I'd prefer not to have water in the drain lines with a valve on the end of the dump connection. That would make it hard to dump on very cold days like deer hunting camp.

No matter what tank system you have, it's not pleasant to dump, but is a necessary evil we pay for the convenince of having living facilities in our RV. My only beef (if you can call it a beef) is that all the manufacturers tend to put the gray water tank valves next to the tank. That means some pull handles are in awkward locations (like under the middle of the slide). Realistically, even with the galley valve under the slide, if we are dry camping, it will be closed the whole time the slide is out, and if we're using hookups, it will be open the entire time the slide is out. So, as long as I (us) think about how we're using the RV tanks, it's not really a hassle, it's just being "smarter than the tank" in how we set it up when we level and hookup the RV.

[SAABDOCTOR]

hey John that is way too technical!!! think of it this way.Keystone can't get the lables for the tanks right can you just imagine what would happen if they tried to open two tanks at once:eek:bet one will not be grey;);)

[curlyfungirl]

When we were doing our walkthrough prior to delivery my husband was looking under the rv and noticed a 3rd tank. However, in the "water works" center, there were only 2 levers to pull to empty the tanks. That would be one for grey, and one for black. He mentioned the third tank and was told "there are only two tanks, one for black and one for grey". After setting up our RV on our property, and examining further there is indeed a third tank and the release lever is nowhere near the "water works" area where the other levers are located. The lever is on the back side in the rear, behind the rear tire well. This is the lever that drains the grey water from the tank that holds the water from the kitchen sink. Just FYI....

2013 Alpine 3555rl

Ours has the same set up. We were showed by our salesman.

[LovingRV1031]

Same as with our Alpine. The industry has a long way to go (based off our experience) with the walk through. We had a very good salesman, dressed professional, etc., who put us on our Alpine. The day we picked it up, we were expecting the same type experience. However, the walk through was completed by a service technician in greasy uniform, smelled of cigarettes, and did a quick job of letting us know 'everything'.....we are still learning things we were not shown.

[Festus2]

LovingRV1031 -
Did you, by any chance, take along a Pre-Delivery Inspection Checklist with you when you did the walk through? If you didn't have one at the time, you are pretty much at the mercy of the guy that goes through it with you. If he rushes, then the chances are that he is not showing you everything that should be covered. The walk through, a vital part of buying an RV, is not something you want to be hurried through.

[LovingRV1031]

Festus2 - It very well could be that we didn't have it in our hands, but it was signed. This is basically our first experience with buying an RV. Prior we had a used Safari Trek Class A from 2001. We had it about 5 months and then upgraded. Lessons learned...

[diugo]

Same as with our Alpine. The industry has a long way to go (based off our experience) with the walk through. We had a very good salesman, dressed professional, etc., who put us on our Alpine. The day we picked it up, we were expecting the same type experience. However, the walk through was completed by a service technician in greasy uniform, smelled of cigarettes, and did a quick job of letting us know 'everything'.....we are still learning things we were not shown.

My Cougar walk through was the exact same way---down to the smell :)

He did, however, point out some stuff I would never have guessed. So in that respect, much better than my previous trailer, where there was no walk through at all. I was still discovering stuff years after that!

[Loriv247]

We too were unaware of the second grey tank and discovered the valve by accident when picking up one of our kid's toys. I wish the valve was more accessible but we only have to pull it once usually when we are ready to depart. When dry camping, you can place a plastic bin in your sink to wash your dishes in and then dump that water outside so it doesn't fill up your tank. It's just soapy water so it won't harm anything.


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[suza]

We too were unaware of the second grey tank and discovered the valve by accident when picking up one of our kid's toys. I wish the valve was more accessible but we only have to pull it once usually when we are ready to depart. When dry camping, you can place a plastic bin in your sink to wash your dishes in and then dump that water outside so it doesn't fill up your tank. It's just soapy water so it won't harm anything.


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We do the same with our kitchen sink when dry camping. I like to recycle water and I'm sure the trees and shrubs in the campgrounds appreciate the "drink" :D

Has anyone determined where the water goes when you pull the valve for the galley tank? Does it flow through the other grey tank or directly to the drain?

[Festus2]

[QUOTE=suza;92522]We do the same with our kitchen sink when dry camping. I like to recycle water and I'm sure the trees and shrubs in the campgrounds appreciate the "drink" :D

QUOTE]

Suza -

There are many campgrounds, especially State, Provincial or county parks that take a dim view of campers who toss their dishwater onto nearby shrubs, bushes or trees. That is why many of them have drains - often located at water taps - that are supposed to be used for washing dishes or dumping dishwater.

Do trees and shrubs really appreciate drinking dishwater that contains soap with sulfates and a myriad of other chemicals, grease and food particles? Just a thought.

[suza]

[QUOTE=suza;92522]We do the same with our kitchen sink when dry camping. I like to recycle water and I'm sure the trees and shrubs in the campgrounds appreciate the "drink" :D

QUOTE]

Suza -

There are many campgrounds, especially State, Provincial or county parks that take a dim view of campers who toss their dishwater onto nearby shrubs, bushes or trees. That is why many of them have drains - often located at water taps - that are supposed to be used for washing dishes or dumping dishwater.

Do trees and shrubs really appreciate drinking dishwater that contains soap with sulfates and a myriad of other chemicals, grease and food particles? Just a thought.

We do use those drains for "dirty water". I share the rinse water with nature :)

[LZScout]

On our Alpine 3250RL, we have 2 grey tanks (41 gallons each) and one blank tank at 50 gallons. The dump handles are all in the water works area. The black and Bath Grey tank are on the back wall and the Kitchen Grey tank is on the side wall. On the drains, the Black and Bath Grey tanks use 3" pipe to a combined exit and the Kitchen Grey tank looks to use a 2" waste pipe to join the 3" just before the combined discharge.

The only issue I've had that I'm not happy with is that there seems to be seepage occurring past the valves. I use an old 1 gallon ice cream bucket to catch what collects behind the waste cap when I dump the tanks. Last weekend, I took the cap off and filled the entire 1 gallon bucket with what had seeped past the shutoffs. Is this normal?


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[Festus2]

Sounds like you may have something (toilet paper,???) caught in the valve which is preventing it from completely closing. You shouldn't have this quantity of seepage coming through after the valves are closed.

You might want to invest in a Valterra twist on valve or a Valterra Flush King - both of which attach to your existing sewer outlet and will act as an additional valve to catch any seepage that collects after you close the valves. This addition will also prevent any sudden gush of fluids when you take off the cap or if you forget to close a valve.

They are available at CW or other RV supply stores.

[LZScout]

Thanks, I'll give it a look.


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