I've changed my mind about Keystone RV's

[Randall53]

Hi all. I am a 60 years young male engineer. I hate that my first post is a negative one, but I am really alarmed about an issue and thought I'd come here for information. I am in the market for my 3rd RV. My first was a Coachmen and the second a Jayco. This time, which will likely be my last RV purchase, I was really set on a Montana or an Everest. Then I began looking at all of the issues with the Lippert frames that Keystone and many other companies use. I simply cannot understand why the RV industry thumbs their noses at customers and continues to contract with such a atrocious, incompetent and dangerous company. I have read horror story after horror story about their frames and the burden of cost customers have had to shoulder because of this.

Am I wrong in my assessment? I would like to ask, how many of you that have suffered this type of failure that seems to be inherent for years now and well documented in the industry would still purchase an RV from one of the companies that continue to use Lippert?

In a way I'm sorry for the negativity, but I am genuinely concerned about this and know of no other way to put what I feel in writing.

Thank you.

[Festus2]

Randall53 -
As long as I have been a member of this forum, I can say that there has not been "horror story after horror story" about the use of Lippert frames on Keystone RV's. If you were to do a forum search, you may find the odd member who has experienced some type frame issue but these reported cases are in the minority. The vast majority of our members have not indicated any such problem.

Some time ago, we conducted a survey amongst our members and asked if they would buy another Keystone product and just over 90% indicated that they would. This indicates to me that a large majority of our members are satisfied with their Keystone RV which sits on a Lippert frame and uses other Lippert components - especially in the slide out mechanisms.

Oftentimes, as you probably know, people who have had negative experiences speak and write the loudest. Those who are quite satisfied with their units and have had no issues with the frame or other components made by Lippert often say little. What you have read may have been comments made by a minority of Keystone or other RV brand owners and doesn't reflect the experiences of the "silent" majority.
This is not to say that there have not been problems with Lippert but I am not sure that I would brand their company as being "atrocious, incompetent, and dangerous" based on anecdotal comments found on the Internet.

Our RV is built on a Lippert frame and I am not concerned about our safety nor do I worry about the unit falling apart each time I go out.
Your assessment of Lippert seems to be based on the horror stories that you have read online and I am not sure if you have any well-documented evidence to support your statements but if you have, I think our members would be interested in reading this proof.

I don't work for Lippert or for Keystone - just throwing in my 2 cents.

[Javi]

Pretty sure that's a Lippert frame under that coachmen as well... :D

[Randall53]

I do understand that the concept of those with problems scream the loudest. However, before a couple of days ago, I had never heard of Lippert. I happened upon a thread that mentioned Lippert frame and pin box failures. My interest in this lead me to perform internet searches about lippert frame failures especially with me in the market for an RV. I was truly amazed at the number of posts on forums all across the industry with pictures and descriptions of these failures and all by Lippert. Posts dated as recent as 2013 as far back as 2001 seem to be plentiful. I suppose you are correct in the speculation that this is still a few negatives considering how many RV's are sold each year. I do have to say though that many of the pictures and descriptions were very much horrendous and do reveal a very negative image of Lippert since they refused to repair the obvious and forced customers to pay several thousand dollars in repairs out of their own pockets.

Maybe my fears of buying a product of this nature is unwarranted. Does anyone else have comments? They will be appreciated.

[Randall53]

Pretty sure that's a Lippert frame under that coachmen as well... :D

Maybe....it was a 1979 park model. I saw no negative posts about Lippert before 2001.

[Randall53]

I would like to say I'm not here to bash Keystone, but to gather opinions. So please don't get defensive and think I'm here to bash the Keystone brand because apparently many other manufacturers use Lippert also and they too had the same issues. This lead me to believe there may be something to it. I'm here because I love the Montana and Everest fifth wheels and want to hear from those that own Keystone RV's before I pay a huge amount of money, so please don't take this the wrong way.

[Javi]

Maybe....it was a 1979 park model. I saw no negative posts about Lippert before 2001.

If you do a search for the other frame manufacturer "Norco/Bal" you will see that they too have their share of problems.. If you throw enough product on the market the odds are in favor of someone having a problem... the more product the more somebodies... as an engineer you should easily recognize this...

[Randall53]

If you do a search for the other frame manufacturer "Norco/Bal" you will see that they too have their share of problems.. If you throw enough product on the market the odds are in favor of someone having a problem... the more product the more somebodies... as an engineer you should easily recognize this...

Thank you Javi. Your opinion has been noted. Any others?

[michael]

We bought new and we had about 15 minor repairs. And the repairs were nothing that kept us from using our Montana until the end of the 2012 season, then we dropped it off to get the repairs done over the winter. so far so good for 2013 and we have a 10 night trip planed with the grandkids on the 27th of June. I would recommend them just find a good dealer and or repair facility.
My first purchase was a 2011 Sprinter 29ft we used that 4.5 months and then we traded and bought the currant Montana fiver love the room. enjoy your future purchase.

[Randall53]

Thank you Michael. I believe you are correct. A good dealer that will go to bat for you is the real secret to a positive RV experience.

[TAZ23]

I have not had a frame problem on the two travel trailers that I have owned.
The only problem I have personally seen was from a guy two years ago. He pulled into the camp ground, backed his Rockwood into his site and used the scisser jacks to level the trailer.:eek: As he was raising the left rear a loud "crack" was heard and looking under the trailer he found a broken weld on a cross member. He was mad, and said this was the third time his frame gave way in the six years he owned it. He said he would never buy another Rockwood again. I told him that the jacks were to help stabilize the trailer and not intended to raise it or level it. He replied that the frame should be sturdy enough to lift it. I think he might be one who complains. I am sure there are a small percentage of frames with a weak point and may need to be repaired, but I wonder how many of those frame problems are cause by misuse and abuse. Good luck on what ever you decide to purchase.

[fla-gypsy]

I have owned my Keystone product for almost 8 years and never had any type of frame issue. In fact Keystone gave my trailer an abundance of frame. Trailer weighs around 7k dry and the frame is rated for 10k. My trailer was outfitted with running gear that exceeds the total GVWR which is not common in this industry. Mark me as a very happy user of Keystone's frame choices and engineering

[theeyres]

Without a true, scientific, unbiased survey there is really no way to answer the question about Lippert frames. You mention well documented information--I haven't read any. I have only read anecdotal info. I do wish there was a good study. All I know is I had a Sprindale trailer I pullled all over the west and Mexico. I bent a spring when I didn't see a speed bump but never had a frame problem. I now have a Hideaway and have had no frame problems. So I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Keystone.

My suspicion is that many people that have had frame problems have bought trailers that have a lot of glitz and space but ignore the weight limits and overload them. Trailers like Montana "look" high end so people will treat them like a Horizon or Elite and load them accordingly.

[Randall53]

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. Also, thanks for the PM. I tried to reply but the system would not let me.

Good luck to all with your RV's.

[wva3185]

My Jayco that I am getting ready to trade has a Dexter frame but Jayco used to use Leland frame which was subsequently bought by Dexter. Now Lippert has purchased Dexter. (http://chassissuspension.automotive-business-review.com/news/lippert-components-acquires-assets-of-rv-chassis-business-240811) My guess is that you are going to be hard pressed to find a unit that does not have a Lippert frame unless you go really high end. I believe that they generally make their own frames.

[Bugle Boy]

Randall I too let the negative posts scare me as we awaited delivery of our 2013 Cougar 31RKS. I got real scared that I had made a mistake even after all the research we did.

I too posted negative comments here but ours was already on order.

Well, the trailer (a 2014) came in to Camping world a week early, we went to take delivery and during the PDI found no issues. We accepted it, hitched it up and headed to the campground. After 3 days, including serious rain, we had only two minor issues. One of the shades would not stay up and there was no gas hose for the Aussie grll.

We just returned from our second outing, again pouring rain and no issues. This trip ended early and was not far from home. Lightng took out the power to the campground for at least a day so we came home.

Our concern was unfounded. We love this Cougar. It is beautiful inside and out, everything works fine.

[sandy43]

I have a Lippert frame on a 2012 Alpine and have no problems and that dude travels a bunch. My previous 2 RV's had Lippert frames and no problems. I've heard of Lippert frame problems, but no more than other frame builders. Friend of mine has a 3 year old Big Horn and has had welding breaks in his frame and I think that frame was made by Heartland.

I think most RV's have Lippert frames, therefore your going to hear about more frame problems. Just my opinion. Thanks

[f6bits]

If Raytronx (loveyourrv.com) still visiting the forum, he might have a thing or two to add. He's dragged his Keystone more miles than anybody I know. Two (or more) round-the-US trips with lots of boondocking. No reported issues with his frame. Nothing major with anything in his trailer, as I recall.

[Jim Dow]

Randall: I'm with you. When I bought my Montana High Country I looked for for failure/issue statistics too. Guess what! I couldn't find any statistics either - positive or negative - except what I found myself. I'll bet there are none publically available elsewhere.

However, I still made the purchase based on the other happy customers I did find; and we are currently satisfied - no significant issues yet.

I did make some "quality"/"preventive" mods to try and minimize my risk as I found some obvious and serious shortcomings.

[wmcclay]

Try the Montanas owners website, its it pretty much just Montanas. There has been some problems with the frames but as said here, it is a small number.

Wayne and Donna

[ewkearns]

Thank you Michael. I believe you are correct. A good dealer that will go to bat for you is the real secret to a positive RV experience.

From what I have read in this forum regarding Keystone:

1) That is true, there are precious few of them and,
2) It is more true of a home purchase, which isn't going anywhere. I don't think Keystone has ANY sort of network to cover on the road repairs that is worth a hoot.

Bottom line seems to be that if you buy you RV from a good dealer and can always take your problems to them, you might be OK. Otherwise, you are screwed.....

[SAABDOCTOR]

HI So far my lippert slide has yet to spit me out on the sidewalk. my frame has not failed. so i am a happy keystone camper. everyone makes some mistakes. but over all the quality has been very good on our montana. perfect no but still very good :banghead:

[azlee56]

I love our Montana. It is sturdy in high wind and roomy enough to keep me happy. I am happy with the way it is made too. It is 2008, and yes screws need tightening here or there, but shoot the thing vibrates down the road. I am glad we went this way in our purchase.

[rayjoanlough]

Hey all while not raytronix I have pulled my Cougar 278RS around the paremeter of tis great country and have had no frame problems. Only problem was a blowout on tow rig at 60 mph at Minneapolis-St. Paul at knocking off time. Weather was 95 degrees and 95% hunidity. THAT will wake ya up in a hurry!
rayjoanlo

[antiqfreq]

Our fiver was bought new, it is a 2007, and we traveled the country for a year and many, many more before and after that.

No frame problem, no slide problem, just basicly no problems that my DH couldn't handle himself......

Very happy with ours - will definitely get another Keystone - IF we ever need too!

Jo

:D

[webslave]

You know, you can fret and worry about almost all of the components in an RV...Refrigerators, A/C units, water heaters, microwaves, gensets, and the frames; they've all had "serious issues" based on anecdotal and factual reporting on the web.

Your safest bet? Stay home and sit on the porch. Anything dragged all over the countryside, on some roads that would make a 3rd world country look advanced, and things are going to go wrong, it is the nature of the beast. Since, probably, 95% of all towables are now riding on Lippert frames, you are not going to get away from any "perceived" wide spread frame problems and, IMHO, there isn't any "wide spread problem" with them or their would be recalls and Lippert would be in the tank.

I've got some 100,000+ miles total on several trailers, all with Lippert frames and never had an issue. I don't overload them and I don't try to convert a 5th wheel to gooseneck, but, while there are many brands of RVs I wouldn't buy, none are on that list because they sit on Lippert frames. BTW, we love our Cougar 318SAB and it sits on a Lippert frame that I don't even have the first worry about.

[Bugle Boy]

"Your safest bet? Stay home and sit on the porch. Anything dragged all over the countryside, on some roads that would make a 3rd world country look advanced, and things are going to go wrong, it is the nature of the beast."

Well said Don. Frequent and good inspections, and that would include inspections while in storage, would find many problems before they become expensive.

[labs4life]

Frequent and good inspections, and that would include inspections while in storage, would find many problems before they become expensive.

Drivers that drive everyday do a pre and post trip inspection. This is very valuable. I preach to our drivers, myself included, do these inspections and your time on the side of the interstate will be greatly reduced. It is amazing the things you will see if you get in a habit of looking at your trailer. If you look often enough, the small issues will be " out of place" and allow you to catch it before it becomes a big deal!!

[wva3185]

Drivers that drive everyday do a pre and post trip inspection. This is very valuable. I preach to our drivers, myself included, do these inspections and your time on the side of the interstate will be greatly reduced. It is amazing the things you will see if you get in a habit of looking at your trailer. If you look often enough, the small issues will be " out of place" and allow you to catch it before it becomes a big deal!! I go around my RV about every day even when it is sitting for months at a time.

[jol]

Like I tell my neighbor when I get back "guess if I towed my house down the road something would need repaired too"