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kiwi2000
06-13-2013, 05:17 AM
While out on our first trip of the year one propane bottle unexpectedly went empty. It was filled about 3 weeks ago and the trailer went into storage about 1 week after that.
I had the dealer work on a few warranty items while in storage as we are not using it again for a while.
I went to go and pick up a few things from the fifth and the propane sniffer was wailing. I reset it but it just went off again.

Question 1, I see a replacement date of 2014. It appears to be hard wired do I need an electrician to replace the propane sniffer before the replacement date?

So I went and turned off the propane bottle the sniffer stopped wailing. I asked the dealer to do a propane leak check.

They called and said one bottle was empty. As stated both were full when we left it there.

The pressure test was OK no leaks. They have refilled the empty bottle.

Question 2 So where is the propane going? The furnace was off and it is auto ignite anyway. The stove burners were off.

Anyone?

It does not make me feel safe to know this has happened twice.

geo
06-13-2013, 05:38 AM
Use a handheld propane leak detector and check the regulator. On our Alpine, I had the regulator fail. It was discharging a puff of propane about once every ten seconds. I could smell the mercat, but the handheld didn't alarm. I was lucky to have the detector near the vent when it discharged - boy, that detector screamed! I replaced the regulator with a two-stage Marshall regulator and didn't have any further problems.

Ron

nano
06-13-2013, 05:38 AM
Was the propane shut off at the tank?

Bob Landry
06-13-2013, 05:49 AM
More than likely, it's a regulator leaking. There are only so many flare connections on the trailer and it's easy enough to check them with a thick dish soap solution.

kiwi2000
06-13-2013, 06:55 AM
I had one tank off and as previously stated when i entered the trailer to hear the sniffer going off, I then closed the remaining bottle.

More than likely, it's a regulator leaking
Wouldn't the propane test the dealer did for $99.00 find that?

Bugle Boy
06-13-2013, 07:38 AM
Were the valves on the bottles backseated?

Bob Landry
06-13-2013, 01:32 PM
I had one tank off and as previously stated when i entered the trailer to hear the sniffer going off, I then closed the remaining bottle.


Wouldn't the propane test the dealer did for $99.00 find that?

It would depend on where he put the gauge to do the test. All a propane leak test is, is connecting a pressure gauge, opening the tank valve to pressurize the system, closing the valve and then waiting to see if pressure holds. if it does not, then there is a leak. If placed after the regulator, it would test only from that point to the trailer appliances. If that passes, then he would(should) insert the gauge right at the tank. Then after testing the rest of the system it still leaked down, then that would point to a bad regulator.

I personally don't put much stock in propane gauges. They won't even tell you how much gas you have left in the tank. The simplest way is to soap bubble test all of the fittings and then if nothing shows up, then replace the regulator. You could have bubble checked it yourself, replaced the regulator and bought a spare for the $99 you spent having them test it.

Rusty
06-13-2013, 01:43 PM
Oooops should have read the original post!

eds451
06-13-2013, 06:21 PM
The regulator on my Coleman stove was leaking. You could hear the hiss and smell the gas. We originally thought the tanks/connections on the 5er were leaking until we figured that the only time you could smell gas was when the stove was attached to the tanks. Ordered a new one and will see next week when we camp.

kiwi2000
06-14-2013, 02:50 PM
Well they said they tested the tanks as well as the lines. I asked specifically about the regulator and whether it,they might be leaking they said it could not be that.

So the regulator is right after the tank right? I have two tanks so two regulators. What about the thingy that connects the two tanks together. I don't even know what to do with that or whether it works independently, like when one tank is empty does it flip a switch or something to the other?
Or do I do that?

The service thought that it was because the batteries were down that was why the sniffer went off.

That does not explain the empty bottle however but maybe we just used a lot.

They are both full and closed now. I am only going to open one I suppose the one where the line is pointing and only when we are getting ready for a trip.

Bugle Boy
06-15-2013, 04:42 AM
When you put the tanks on line, open the valves fully. Tighten them snugly fully open. Do not overtighten or that could damage the backseat. Backseating the valve stem prevents leakage through that path. If you do not open the valves fully gas can leak out past the stem. I had that empty tanks once.

JRTJH
06-15-2013, 05:00 AM
Well they said they tested the tanks...
So the regulator is right after the tank right? I have two tanks so two regulators. What about the thingy that connects the two tanks together. That does not explain the empty bottle however but maybe we just used a lot.

They are both full and closed now. I am only going to open one I suppose the one where the line is pointing and only when we are getting ready for a trip.

That thingy between the tanks is the automatic changeover regulator. You have a high pressure hose from each tank that goes into the regulator. The changeover feature sits above the regulator in the same assembly. That is what may be leaking. Also, as stated above, backseat your valves, it's possible to lose a full tank of propane in a week or so just from the valvestems leaking.

I'm thinking that you might have more than one issue here. The propane tanks and regulator are NOT inside the RV and the propane detector should not be activating from a propane leak outside the RV. So, you may well have leaking valvestems, or a faulty regulator or both, PLUS a defective propane detector. The dealer is correct in saying a low battery will cause the detector to alarm, but it alarms when it "smells" propane also, so you just might have a leak inside to go alone with the leak outside.

Unless you're using your RV to run a "commercial kitchen" or running the furnace "quite a bit" you're not going to go through 2 bottles of propane in a week. It's possible, in the winter, to do that, but you'd have the furnace running quite a bit to use 60 lbs of propane. I can't imagine using that much in the summer without a leak to help drain the tanks.

SoGaDually
06-16-2013, 04:41 AM
Go to your local A/C Store that sells Parts and pick up a bottle of Leak Detector, get it in a spray bottle. I prefer this over using soap & Water.
Turn both of your Gas bottles on and make sure the the valve on the Gas bottles are all of the way open and seated. Once the bottles are turned on spray the valves on the gas bottles starting at the handle & Stem and work your way down to the connection where the regulator connects to the gas tanks, look for any bubbles. If you see bubbles there is you leak.
Depending on how your gas bottles are setup on your camper, you'll have one or two regulators. If your gas bottles are mounted side by side such as on most Trailer Trailers you'll have one regulator which will "Silver" in color. If your bottles are setup so one bottle is on one side of your camper and the other one is mounted on the opposite side of the camper such as on Fifth Wheels you'll have two regulators. One regulator being "RED" in color which is high pressure and the the other one being "Silver" which is low pressure. Normally the "Red" High Pressure Regulator is mounted on the "Driver Side" on most Fifth Wheels...All regulators mounted outside "Not in living area" has a vent on the outlet side of the regulator. With the tanks turned on, spray the vent on the regulators and looks for bubbles. If bubbles are seen the Regulator needs to be replaced. Leaking vents are normally missed by people.
If no leaks are found and you feel that you still have a leak,then starting at the Regulator spray each connection in the gas system and look for bubbles.
Note: Most RV Dealers do not know that much about Propane. If your not comfortable checking yourself. Contact your local LP Dealer and ask them if they will perform a Gas Check on your RV....
Sample on what a Low Press combo looks like and vent location.
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_82762_0_600cf7dda1d0c6c2c35754fb6983b831.jpg

Sample of what the High Pressure Regulator looks like and vent location
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_82762_1_54b726000a77769c05824dec1fc26227.jpg

Sample of leak detected..You may see bubbles like this or you could see very small bubbles...Look closely when checking
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_82762_2_dec194edc581feb34e872297b3633bba.jpg

kiwi2000
06-16-2013, 12:59 PM
So I am enjoying a relaxing Sunday afternoon when I hear a siren going off.
I wonder to myself what poor sap is having this problem. A while later I wonder outside and I am the sap because its my trailer that is squealing.
The #&^%**&^%$ propane sniffer is going off again and will not reset.

Question how can the sniffer be operative when the battery disconnect is engaged?

Question I found out how to turn the #&^%**&^%$ propane sniffer off by removing a fuse but then a light went on in the panel where the fuse was removed. How is all this stuff able to go on when the battery is disconnected?

So I guess I know what was causing the sniffer to go off, itself as a defective unit. How many $99.99 would divide into on of those #&^%**&^%$ propane sniffers?

Should not the battery disconnect affect very facet of the electrical system or is does that make too much sense?

Are there sniffers that can be turned off when not in use? Both propane tanks are closed.

Unless you're using your RV to run a "commercial kitchen" or running the furnace "quite a bit" you're not going to go through 2 bottles of propane in a week.
The service center was incorrect one bottle was full and the valve was closed as I thought. The other had a couple of pounds left they said.
I think I should have saved the test $$ and purchased a new sniffer. I think they should have suggested that instead of the service.

kiwi2000
06-17-2013, 04:50 AM
When you put the tanks on line, open the valves fully. Tighten them snugly fully open. Do not overtighten or that could damage the backseat. Backseating the valve stem prevents leakage through that path. If you do not open the valves fully gas can leak out past the stem. I had that empty tanks once.

So backseating means opening the valves on the propane tanks fully open. By over tighten you mean fully open right?

Our propane BBQ is opposite as they only want the propane valve open a quarter turn.


Sometimes when you purchase something thinking it will be a stress buster it becomes a source of stress.
I knew there was going to be a shake down period but this is going on into the second year now admittedly with some issues attributable to my lack of towing or rv knowledge, but...

I will confer with keystone and the attending service center today to see if they can shed some light on this issue.

Bugle Boy
06-17-2013, 05:18 AM
"So backseating means opening the valves on the propane tanks fully open. By over tighten you mean fully open right?"

Yes.

kiwi2000
06-18-2013, 06:11 AM
I am to try an experiment today on the advice of the service center. I am going to plug in the trailer and re insert the fuse into the fuse panel. If the sniffer goes off again it is the sniffer that is defective. If it does not go off it is the RV battery that is defective.

According to the rep I spoke with @ Keystone yesterday the CO2 and Propane detectors bypass the battery shut off switch and draw power 24/7! Apparently this should be an insignificant electrical draw and it should not be draining the 13 month new battery. But as it is the battery is always flat.

So, two fuses to pull when I store it this year.

I wonder how much a battery is installed? Sheesh, still shaking things out I suppose?

kiwi2000
06-18-2013, 10:20 AM
I have now spoken to the selling dealer about the battery. They state that the battery will be drained by the detectors within 3 or 4 days by the detectors and to ensure a fresh battery I should remove the negative connection from the battery each and every time before I store it for any period of time.

I unscrewed the cover on the battery as advised by the previous dealer to look for empty cells or corrosion on the terminals. The water levels were normal and there is no sign of corrosion present on the connections.

I plugged in the trailer and turned the battery disconnect off. About the battery disconnect is it disconnecting itself when I select off or is it disconnecting itself when I select on? If it is the latter then it should be labeled "battery connect".
The reps at keystone had differing opinion on where to select for proper operation when contacted the past two days.

I now have no power whatsoever in the trailer from either battery or shore. All fuses and breakers are engaged. I have had the electrical plugged for about 5 hours and have tried selecting the battery disconnect switch in both positions.

Another call to keystone have offered the suggestion that there are fuses near the battery that might need service. I could find none and relayed this to the rep.

Also that more fuses might be behind the main beaker panel and that I should remove the panel to have a look.
Because of the fact that no fuses were present within the battery compartment I am wondering if it is a further exercise in futility to now remove the main breaker panel and go in search of additional fuses behind the panel.

So no power at all, at least the propane detector is not squealing any longer.

Is there any difference between charging the trailer via connection from the truck or from shore power? I suppose I will try the truck next.