Half Ton Towing

[JRTJH]

Here's an interesting read on the industry's direction in lighter weight fifth wheels. I'm not sure that all I read is "objectively aimed at half ton trucks" but much of the future for lighter fifth wheels is noted in the article.

http://www.trailerlife.com/rv-trailer-news/half-ton-fun/

Some of the information is obviously "advertiser related support" by the publisher, I'm just not sure how they can call the KZRV trailer with a dry weight of 9750 lbs a "half ton model" LOL

[Festus2]

So glad to hear that the manufacturers are still sticking with their Glacier and Arctic Packages stickers. :rolleyes: At least one manufacturer is thinking outside the box and calling their unit "Four Season". :cool:

And what about Northwood's Fox Mountain? It has R7 in the floor and R18 in the roof. Jayco, on the other hand, has R29 in the floor and R27 in the roof. Not cool Northwood! (Or is it cool?)

And are we to believe that the KZRV at 9740 dry is 1/2T towable? Sure we are. :rofl:

[hankpage]

Come on guys .... you know if it's not true they can't put it on the Internet. http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=251&pictureid=1115

[2011 keystone]

They make a sticker for that:rofl:

[3P'sInACougar]

Well the new 2013 f-150 ford can tow 11,300 lbs if equipped right. I should know I just bought one with the ecoboost v-6 motor to pull my 2002 cougar 29.5 ft. That max weight of 8100 lbs. I hope to have enough weight left over to pull my 21 ft alum boat behind. I can be 75 ft nose to tail in Michigan. Have a good weekend.


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[GaryWT]

I think it is more of a payload thing than a towing thing.

[SAABDOCTOR]

yep and he's a french model!! tow it with a half ton? maybe tow how about stop:eek::eek::eek:

[tomsws6]

Well the new 2013 f-150 ford can tow 11,300 lbs if equipped right. I should know I just bought one with the ecoboost v-6 motor to pull my 2002 cougar 29.5 ft. That max weight of 8100 lbs. I hope to have enough weight left over to pull my 21 ft alum boat behind. I can be 75 ft nose to tail in Michigan. Have a good weekend.


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Wow, do they upgrade the brakes at all?

[Randy_K]

I'm camping right now and don't have the fact sheet in front of me but I believe the payload of the max tow package is just over 2,200 lbs.

[Javi]

I'm camping right now and don't have the fact sheet in front of me but I believe the payload of the max tow package is just over 2,200 lbs.

Minus options and stuff.....
I owned one.... I don't anymore, cost me 10K to learn my lesson

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[labs4life]

So an Ecoboost has 800 pounds less "advertised" payload than my 6.7 liter 250.

"Negative ghost rider, that pattern is full"!!!!

[3P'sInACougar]

My payload on my 2013 f-150 ecoboost v-6 is 2600 lbs. I have 273 rear end. 2 wheel drive with hd frame an max tow. I have 7 lug wheels. My gross tow is 11,300 lbs. it is a crew cab with 6.5 box. I ordered it from factory with what I wanted so I could tow my 8100 lbs fifth wheel trailer. It has disc brakes all around an sits on same frame as a 4x4. Just 2 wheel drive. That what factory says it will haul. If you type ecoboost tourture test on YouTube u will see mike row put one through 7 tests.


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[3P'sInACougar]

Sorry 2600 lbs is payload in box. Of 2013 f-150


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[Javi]

Sorry 2600 lbs is payload in box. Of 2013 f-150


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Now go look at the sticker on the door post....

[Bushman512000]

I do hope You pull to the right (lane) and let the cars by I will and think nothing of it with My 5er on. With My Cummins just be cause I drive about 62 MPH. I thought the new Ford was made for gas mileage and light towing. Time will tell just how good they are its a crap shoot but I think the Motor is a tad small for the big 5ers some are pulling and most are maxed out Ford will need to fix a few and that's when the truth will be on the internet about the 6 Bangers Oh MY 6.7 is a 6 also..lol..Bushman:D

[TomHaycraft]

JRTJH, thanks for posting. Great to see the passion about the topic get stirred up from time to time!

[labs4life]

Now go look at the sticker on the door post....

And go weigh truck trailer combo and talk about then. I am sure it will pull it
Hell, I pulled a 16000lb versahandler on a 3500lb gooseneck trailer with a 2000 7.3 PS. It would pull it, didn't make it smart tho. Had some scary moments and I grew in the towel and bought a small flat bed for our road tractors. Totally safe and within limits now.

[SteveC7010]

My payload on my 2013 f-150 ecoboost v-6 is 2600 lbs. I have 273 rear end. 2 wheel drive with hd frame an max tow. I have 7 lug wheels. My gross tow is 11,300 lbs. it is a crew cab with 6.5 box. I ordered it from factory with what I wanted so I could tow my 8100 lbs fifth wheel trailer. It has disc brakes all around an sits on same frame as a 4x4. Just 2 wheel drive. That what factory says it will haul. If you type ecoboost tourture test on YouTube u will see mike row put one through 7 tests.

Hold on a sec. Ford's F150 towing guide shows a payload of 2,667# for a 4x2 regular cab. The SuperCrew in 4x2, 3.5L EcoBoost has a payload rating of 1,746#. If it is a 4x4, the payload drops to 1,440#. Those numbers are achieved only if the truck has the Heavy Duty PayLoad Option.

Ford doesn't give payload numbers along side their towing info. Payload is found only in the Slide-In Camper section of the guide. Here's a link to the 2013 guide: http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_f150.pdf

With the EcoBoost, the pull ratings vary a lot based on 4x4 vs 4x2, Cab, Wheel Base, but the big factor is the gearing. It ranges from 9,200# up to 11,300#. Presuming that your 8,100# number is GVWR, you are good there.

Ford also clearly states that the weight of the vehicle, passengers and cargo, and the pin weight can not exceed GAWR or GVWR which are on the Safety Compliance Certification label located on the driver's door frame.

[Javi]

I'm thinking that someone is gonna be really disappointed....:eek:

[BruLaz]

Hold on a sec. Ford's F150 towing guide shows a payload of 2,667# for a 4x2 regular cab. The SuperCrew in 4x2, 3.5L EcoBoost has a payload rating of 1,746#. If it is a 4x4, the payload drops to 1,440#. Those numbers are achieved only if the truck has the Heavy Duty PayLoad Option.

Ford doesn't give payload numbers along side their towing info. Payload is found only in the Slide-In Camper section of the guide. Here's a link to the 2013 guide: http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_f150.pdf

...


That's not payload as usually defined.

Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum
allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle
with required camper option content and a 150-
lb. passenger at each available seating position


If you look at the regular F150 brochures, you'll see payloads as normally defined (not including people but including a full tank of gas).

There you'll find that a 4x4 F150 SCrew EcoB can have a payload upto 2310# with the HD Payload option. But you'll want a stripped version, things like moon-roofs will drop that.

The catalogue payload for my 4x2 (FX2) F150 SCab EcoB was 2080# with MaxTow but not HD Payload. The door sticker says 2050# probably 'cause of the 20" wheels. So with care, you can come close to the published payloads.

But most "half-ton" 5ers I've seen have 1200#-1500# pin weight, then you add your 250# hitch and all the gear moved into the belly of the 5er ... I figure 2500# payload would be the minimum. With the HD Payload option, any 4x2 F150 EcoB would do that, and the RegCab 4x4's. But the SCab and SCrew would be touch and go. There's a lot of folks doing it though, and they have the CAT scale #'s to prove that it can be done "legally".

The HD Payload option is important. It not only increases your payload but adds ~400# to your rear GAWR and gives you a much stiffer suspension, including LT tires. I don't think it's possible to tow a light weight, "half-ton" 5er without it. Well, it's possible, but I wouldn't.

The big problem is getting the HD Payload option. It's not available on all F150 models, and you usually have to order it in.

[SteveC7010]

That's not payload as usually defined.

If you look at the regular F150 brochures, you'll see payloads as normally defined (not including people but including a full tank of gas).

There you'll find that a 4x4 F150 SCrew EcoB can have a payload upto 2310# with the HD Payload option. But you'll want a stripped version, things like moon-roofs will drop that.

The catalogue payload for my 4x2 (FX2) F150 SCab EcoB was 2080# with MaxTow but not HD Payload. The door sticker says 2050# probably 'cause of the 20" wheels. So with care, you can come close to the published payloads.

But most "half-ton" 5ers I've seen have 1200#-1500# pin weight, then you add your 250# hitch and all the gear moved into the belly of the 5er ... I figure 2500# payload would be the minimum. With the HD Payload option, any 4x2 F150 EcoB would do that, and the RegCab 4x4's. But the SCab and SCrew would be touch and go. There's a lot of folks doing it though, and they have the CAT scale #'s to prove that it can be done "legally".

The HD Payload option is important. It not only increases your payload but adds ~400# to your rear GAWR and gives you a much stiffer suspension, including LT tires. I don't think it's possible to tow a light weight, "half-ton" 5er without it. Well, it's possible, but I wouldn't.

The big problem is getting the HD Payload option. It's not available on all F150 models, and you usually have to order it in.

We actually cleared all this up in another similar thread over the past two days. The correct payload for the truck in question turned out to be 1,840#. Not much of a difference from the 1,746# found on the towing chart, but accuracy in these matters is important. We did find the proper chart for the F150's as well.

This thread has all the discussion and links: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11367

[BruLaz]

Ah good. Glad to see it sorted out.

It is amazing how many people have been burned by too low a payload. Myself included.

By the way, that article really should have mentioned the Cougar light weight 5ers. Cougar X-lite, High Country and Half-Ton (western) models. Like the High Country 291RLS, 9000# GVWR, 7215# UVW, 1115# UPW. Nice trailers.

[440justin]

There is always something to be said for having a bit more truck than you really need. I have always towed car haulers with F350 dually trucks, so towing my first camper with a 1/2 ton was a big change for me. You know the camper is back there on a 1/2 ton for sure, not like the big 1 ton where you almost forgot you were pulling something.

Now I do have a small camper compared to most on here and did some math before I bough it to make sure I was ok, but I still need to scale the rig now that we have it loaded up with our stuff. I am predicting that I will only have about 100-200lbs to spare on the trucks GVWR even with a trailer that is 30% below the max tow rating of my truck!

I see way too many trucks that are so badly overloaded anymore it is not even funny. I think the truck manufactures need to get real about their numbers again as too many people are buying these trucks and thinking they can actually tow trailers that heavy. I would never try to two 9,700 lbs (rated tow capacity) with my truck I think it is just too much, even with the max tow package the 11,300 the Ford gives is just too much for a 1/2 ton. I now see the 2014 Chevy 1/2 is showing 11,400 towing capacity just to beat out Ford! When is the madness going to stop? Anything more than 7,000-8,000 pounds should be towed by something bigger than a 1/2.

[440justin]

Here's an interesting read on the industry's direction in lighter weight fifth wheels. I'm not sure that all I read is "objectively aimed at half ton trucks" but much of the future for lighter fifth wheels is noted in the article.

http://www.trailerlife.com/rv-trailer-news/half-ton-fun/

Some of the information is obviously "advertiser related support" by the publisher, I'm just not sure how they can call the KZRV trailer with a dry weight of 9750 lbs a "half ton model" LOL

To the OP, I think the only two on this list I think you could actually tow with a 1/2 and not over gross the truck is the Livin' Lite and the Escape 5.0.

[BruLaz]

...
I think the truck manufactures need to get real about their numbers again as too many people are buying these trucks and thinking they can actually tow trailers that heavy. I would never try to two 9,700 lbs (rated tow capacity) with my truck I think it is just too much, even with the max tow package the 11,300 the Ford gives is just too much for a 1/2 ton. I now see the 2014 Chevy 1/2 is showing 11,400 towing capacity just to beat out Ford! When is the madness going to stop? Anything more than 7,000-8,000 pounds should be towed by something bigger than a 1/2.

Think it's more a problem with the sales people and buyers not being well informed. A good example is in that other thread posted above. The payload, GVWR and GCWR are clearly specified on each truck. You should not exceed them.

But I personally have no problem towing up to the manufacturer's limits. Yes there's a lot of good reasons for getting a bigger, heavier truck than you need, but it's not necessary IMHO.

There's also a problem with the "half-ton" designation. An F150 with the Heavy Duty payload option is not a half-ton truck. It's really somewhere between an F150 and F250, and I'm told Ford used to give them their own model # (F200?, dunno). They have a reinforced frame, heavier suspension, axle, wheels and tires and their increased payload GVWR and GAWR reflect this.

One big reason many Ford owners want to stick with the F150 model line is the Ecoboost. It's proven to be a great tow engine over the last 2.5 years, and yet is not bad as a daily driver. For those non-retired folk who are still driving to work, it's a great engine. If you jump to the F250/350, you get Ford's 6.2L V8 gasser which actually has less low-end torque than the Eco and burns more gas. Or you fork over big $$, ongoing, for the diesel. If you need a F250/350, by all means get one. But I would personally prefer an F150 Eco with HD Payload as long as the truck's GVWR, GCWR and GAWR's were not exceeded.

[Ken / Claudia]

So, keystone makes a 1/2 ton series TT and 5ths wheels, They are nice, I have one. You would think that they are going to print, tow these with 1/2 ton trucks. No where in or on the trailers do they say towable with a 1/2 ton truck. The nice printed catolog does not say it either. I purchased it because that is what I wanted, towing it not a problem with a F350. But, I think people can be miss lead in thinking they are able to pull any of them because it says 1/2 ton. It does print check TV ratings for suitable towing. The 1/2 ton series may be lighter than some other trailers but, you still need a 3/4 or bigger to pull some of them. Also my little trailer has a hitch wt. scaled out loaded at 900lbs.

[davidjsimons]

The dry hitch weight on my X-Lite is 955 lbs.


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[JeffS]

BruLaz -

You are exactly right that there is a great deal of difference in 1/2 Ton trucks. Which makes it all the more important that the consumer fully researches the specs of the truck they have or intend to purchase when planning on using it to tow.

Here are the specs for my 2003 F150 which I think is the heavy duty truck you referenced.

2003 F150 7700 5.4L Triton V8 SuperCab (this is the old 250LD)
Wheel Base - 138.5”
Base Curb Weight - 5,030# (includes full tank of fuel)
GVWR - 7,700#
GCWR - 13,500# (assumes mandatory options, no cargo, 150# driver)
GAWR front - 4,150#
GAWR rear - 4,800#
Payload - 2,670#
Max Trailer Weight - 8,200# (5th Wheel 8,300#)

Transmission - 4R100 (Heavy Duty)
Differential - 10.25” 3.73 Limited Slip Semi-Floating
Cooling (Radiator) - 1.42” core thickness (Upgraded Radiator)
Cooling (Transmission) - 14-plate Auxiliary Transmission Cooler
Brake Rotors -12.13” front / 13.2” rear
Wheels/Tires - LT245/75R16E 7 bolt, Load Range E

[BruLaz]

BruLaz -

You are exactly right that there is a great deal of difference in 1/2 Ton trucks. Which makes it all the more important that the consumer fully researches the specs of the truck they have or intend to purchase when planning on using it to tow.

Here are the specs for my 2003 F150 which I think is the heavy duty truck you referenced.

2003 F150 7700 5.4L Triton V8 SuperCab (this is the old 250LD)
Wheel Base - 138.5”
Base Curb Weight - 5,030# (includes full tank of fuel)
GVWR - 7,700#
GCWR - 13,500# (assumes mandatory options, no cargo, 150# driver)
GAWR front - 4,150#
GAWR rear - 4,800#
Payload - 2,670#
Max Trailer Weight - 8,200# (5th Wheel 8,300#)

Transmission - 4R100 (Heavy Duty)
Differential - 10.25” 3.73 Limited Slip Semi-Floating
Cooling (Radiator) - 1.42” core thickness (Upgraded Radiator)
Cooling (Transmission) - 14-plate Auxiliary Transmission Cooler
Brake Rotors -12.13” front / 13.2” rear
Wheels/Tires - LT245/75R16E 7 bolt, Load Range E

Heh, comparing your numbers to mine really shows off the Tow Capacity inflation that 440Justin was complaining about above.

Your truck has better numbers (Payload, GAWR) all around than mine, except Tow Capacity. Mine is 11300#. Maybe my Ecoboost, 145" wheelbase and 450# more curb weight will increase Tow Capacity some but not 3000# ??

Even if my Tow Capacity were legit, it's seriously out of balance with respect to Payload and Rear GAWR, which is why these are the #'s people have to worry about now-a-days.

[440justin]

Exactly, if you get the HD package on the EcoBoost you have 2,310 payload capacity (crew cab 4x4. 3,100 for a regular cab 4x2). Looking at the 11,300# towing capacity with a bumper pull you should have 1,470#(13%) to 1,695#(15%) tong weight and for a fifth wheel a pin weight of 2,260#(20%). Sure does not leave much room for people and other cargo. This does not even take into account of the axles are within their ratting, this is just looking at the payload number alone! Now maybe if we work on a farm and are pulling some wagons and other trailers that have no tong weight you can pull the 11,300 without being over weight on the truck.

[BruLaz]

...
Now maybe if we work on a farm and are pulling some wagons and other trailers that have no tong weight you can pull the 11,300 without being over weight on the truck.

Bingo. Hay wagons. Think that's where it might be useful.

[440justin]

So I just found a site called F150ecoboost.net and have been looking around a bit. Found a page that people were posting pictures of their trucks with the trailers they tow. Check out post #55 on page 6. http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17-f150-ecoboost-towing/8-pics-your-f150-eb-towing-6.html This is a perfect example of what we have been trying to save people from. The user does not note if the weights are with the rig ready to go camping or empty and how many people in the truck vs. how many typically go.

[labs4life]

So I just found a site called F150ecoboost.net and have been looking around a bit. Found a page that people were posting pictures of their trucks with the trailers they tow. Check out post #55 on page 6. http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17-f150-ecoboost-towing/8-pics-your-f150-eb-towing-6.html This is a perfect example of what we have been trying to save people from. The user does not note if the weights are with the rig ready to go camping or empty and how many people in the truck vs. how many typically go.

Holy crap!!! There are some big 5'ers behind these things!! Trailers I would not buy with my 250.

[Javi]

Wow, :rolleyes:

[BruLaz]

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.

[440justin]

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.

You don't need a diesel dually, but once you have towed with them you don't want to go back. In college I was on the Solar Car team and did lots of towing with this rig, but due to my real world need when time came for me to buy a truck I went 1/2 chevy (not up to the job) and then EcoBoost. For the correct size load the EcoBoost is a very nice alternative.

[BruLaz]

You don't need a diesel dually, but once you have towed with them you don't want to go back. In college I was on the Solar Car team and did lots of towing with this rig, but due to my real wold need with time came for me to buy a truck I went 1/2 chevy (not up to the job) and then EcoBoost. For the correct size load the EcoBoost is a very nice alternative.

Oh yes, low end torque. You can never have enough. With me it all started with a Passat Wagen TDI pulling a 2500# tent trailer. But the Eco's dual turbos are better; no turbo lag at all.

[SkiSmuggs]

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.
Is the problem with this country ignorance and apathy? Frankly, I don't know and I don't care. :D
Seriouly, though, I agonized over all the choices, studied everything I could find, joined forums, etc. Until the 2011 F150 Ecoboost, nobody made the truck I wanted. I got Max Tow, adding 500 lbs to the payload, wanted HD payload, but the 6.5' bed wouldn't fit in my garage or be any fun to park. 80% of the time it is a commuter. So the fiver my wife wanted had a dry pin weight of 1700 lbs and I told her no way. We finally found the Cougar High Country 299RKS with the same floor plan she wanted and 300 lbs less pin weight. Got a Reese Sidewinder pin box so we could get a 90 lb Reese 16K hitch instead of a 350 lb Superglide. A year later, I finally weighed my rig and found I was 500 lbs over the payload (the HD package would have resolved that), but it rides fine and pulls like gangbusters. I keep my speed between 60 and 62 and get 10-11 mpg. So I am a little disappointed but am looking for ways to lighten the pin weight but not anguishing over it. In a 100,000 miles or so, I will trade it in for a Max Tow, Max Payload F150. Meanwhile, I get 20 mpg in my daily 70 mile commute and have no trouble holding 62 mph on long grades while towing a 9K fiver.
BTW, the fiver DW wanted was being towed by a truck with 500 lbs less payload than mine making it 1300 lbs over. Does that worry me? Not really, his lack of Max Tow left him without the larger oil cooler and integrated brake controller, but sway is not much of an issue with fivers and he has the same brakes and frame as I do. But F350s and 3500s passing me with 20K fivers at 75-80 scare the crap out of me.

[warsw]

BTW, the fiver DW wanted was being towed by a truck with 500 lbs less payload than mine making it 1300 lbs over. Does that worry me? Not really, his lack of Max Tow left him without the larger oil cooler and integrated brake controller, but sway is not much of an issue with fivers and he has the same brakes and frame as I do. But F350s and 3500s passing me with 20K fivers at 75-80 scare the crap out of me.
X2.............

[raycan2]

2 weeks ago I bought a 2013 1/2 ton Eco Boost and I was thinking it was not gonna be as good as they say pulling my 2014 Keystone Cougar...Anyways we gave the truck to my son and I bought a 2013 3/4 ton Ford to pull the 5th wheel and let me tell you after pulling the camper with both...The Eco Boost pulls a lot better and more comfort it was well under wt at the box and over all Plus I got 8 miles a gallon on the 3/4 and 11 on the Eco Boost..I pulled it over Teton Pass with NO ISSUES and am very very pleased with the Eco Boost...So anyways that,s my experience...We are selling the 3/4 ton to our business for use their where the workers can get that rough ride....

[BruLaz]

...The Eco Boost pulls a lot better and more comfort it was well under wt at the box
...

Yup, there's no problem towing with the Ecoboost. It has better low-end torque than Ford's 6.2L V8. And there's usually not a problem with the F150's Tow Capacity either.

The problem is with the truck's payload and rear axle rating. People that did not get the HD payload option are almost always over their truck's limits, either GVWR or rear GAWR or both when hauling a 5er.

The F150 with HD payload option, is really a different truck with beefed up frame, suspension, 7 lug axle & wheels, and LT tires.

For us to move up to a light-weight 5er, I would want at least a 2500# payload with the HD Payload Option. And the closer to 3000# payload the better.

[Javi]

Yup, there's no problem towing with the Ecoboost. It has better low-end torque than Ford's 6.2L V8. And there's usually not a problem with the F150's Tow Capacity either.

The problem is with the truck's payload and rear axle rating. People that did not get the HD payload option are almost always over their truck's limits, either GVWR or rear GAWR or both when hauling a 5er.

The F150 with HD payload option, is really a different truck with beefed up frame, suspension, 7 lug axle & wheels, and LT tires.

For us to move up to a light-weight 5er, I would want at least a 2500# payload with the HD Payload Option. And the closer to 3000# payload the better.

And therein lies the problem. The base stripped down model might get there but after all the package accessories and large fuel tank the final numbet is less than 2K even with the H/D package.
Heck, my stripped down XL F250 with 10K option only has 2600 and some of the King Ranches only hit the high teens

[BruLaz]

And therein lies the problem. The base stripped down model might get there but after all the package accessories and large fuel tank the final numbet is less than 2K even with the H/D package.
Heck, my stripped down XL F250 with 10K option only has 2600 and some of the King Ranches only hit the high teens

How did you get a "stripped down XL F250" with only 2600# payload? I just looked at a very nice 2013 F250 4x2 XLT SCab on the lot today that was 3800# right on the door. Very close to the F250 brochure's estimate of 3860# for that wheelbase/engine/cab.

As for F150's, the same is true. Many XLT's are close to the posted payloads in the brochure, and I wouldn't call them stripped down. My FX2's payload was only 25# less than what the brochure listed, and that was because of the 20" wheels. The fancy electronic options are pretty much weightless.

It's moon-roofs, big wheels, tailgate steps, bed liners and stuff like that. With the Lariat, King Ranch and above models, well, a lot of that heavy stuff comes standard, and it definitely weighs them down.

Still, an F150 4x4 SCrew with HD Payload can only have a max 2310# payload. Maybe not enough IMHO. Same with the 4x4 Scab too. But a 4x4 RCab with 8' bed (145", the shortest wheelbase that you can get the HD payload option on, and my favourite) is 2810#. Or, all the 4x2's are over 2500#. The 4x2 RCab is 3100#.

So, yes, if you want a 4x4 SCrew, and/or a King Ranch with all the goodies, you should probably "upscale" to an F250. I wouldn't necessarily call it an "upgrade" though ... :D

Oh, another thing about F250's: there's a lot more of them around compared to the F150HD. You usually have to order in the F150 with the HD payload option. And used, the F150HD's are rare and hard to find, usually XL construction trucks.

[Javi]

Its pretty easy really. My truck is a diesel, crew cab, 8 ft bed with nothing extra but power windows and door locks. 37.5 gallons if fuel vs I think 26 for the short bed F250
The sticker is posted in one of these threads.

[labs4life]

What will these guys who are towing over weight do when their insurance company denies a claim because they are overloaded!!! I guess they could just say, "but man it sure pulled good!"

[SAD]

What will these guys who are towing over weight do when their insurance company denies a claim because they are overloaded!!! I guess they could just say, "but man it sure pulled good!"

They will say nothing except, "Thanks for the prompt claim payment"

That's what insurance does, insures against negligence/stupidity.... Doesn't matter whos it is.

[labs4life]

They will say nothing except, "Thanks for the prompt claim payment"

That's what insurance does, insures against negligence/stupidity.... Doesn't matter whos it is.

I guess I was basing this off of fire policies where an insured knowingly did nothing about a dead tree. Said tree falls into house and company denies claim because of negligence. If tree was alive, no harm as claim is paid.

This to me is like building a new house in a forest of dead trees.....but oh well not my family. I will just most likely be meeting these issues on the road. :(

[SAD]

I guess I was basing this off of fire policies where an insured knowingly did nothing about a dead tree. Said tree falls into house and company denies claim because of negligence. If tree was alive, no harm as claim is paid.

This to me is like building a new house in a forest of dead trees.....but oh well not my family. I will just most likely be meeting these issues on the road. :(

If your auto insurance didn't cover your own auto against your own negligence, then what would the purpose of "collision" be? You'd only need liability to cover the other guy.

[labs4life]

If your auto insurance didn't cover your own auto against your own negligence, then what would the purpose of "collision" be? You'd only need liability to cover the other guy.

You are correct sir.....on another note, why do they even put payload ratings on trucks?? Which is the actual topic I suppose. Sorry for the brief derail!

[SAD]

You are correct sir.....on another note, why do they even put payload ratings on trucks?? Which is the actual topic I suppose. Sorry for the brief derail!

Total guess since no one NOT in the industry has access to enough information to do much but guess....

But the ratings (GVWR and GCWR) are designed to give average joe end user average performance, doing average things for a calculated average period of time (warranty) - all while staying competitive with the manufacturers peers.

GVWR also distinguishes between vehicles for crash test and emissions requirements.

There is no legal bearing for either of these ratings. This is why you can buy 12,000 pound "uprated" tags for your 9,000 GVWR 2500 truck. It's about how much weight did you pay for.

[Javi]

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

[labs4life]

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Winner winner chicken dinner!!

[Randy_K]

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Sorry, your Honor. The numbers are confusing, I did not know I was overloaded. The TV / TT dealer said I was ok.:o

[SAD]

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Have a moment if inattention.... Run a red light.... Tbone another vehicle who had the right-of-way... Seems pretty normal... Sort of stuff happens every day... So what you're saying is the guy who ran the red light gets cancelled?

[Javi]

In msny cases that is exactly what happens, now compound that with being overloaded and you have the recipe for a big lawsuit.
And while you may plead confusion and swear that you didn't know you were overloaded, I'll bet the team of investigators that slick lawyer hires will find evidence that you did know and callously chose to ignore it.

[BruLaz]

Its pretty easy really. My truck is a diesel, crew cab, 8 ft bed with nothing extra but power windows and door locks. 37.5 gallons if fuel vs I think 26 for the short bed F250
The sticker is posted in one of these threads.

Amazing.

For that config (F250,4x4,Crew,172.4"WB,10K GVWR) the 2013 brochure says payload can be up to 3140#. But that must be for the 6.2L gasser. The truck I saw today was a 6.2L, and it's 3800# payload closely matches the brochure for its configuration.

Can the diesel really drop the payload by ~500# ??? Knew they were heavy but didn't know they were *that* heavy. Definitely a weighty "option".

And when talking about the F150's, I'm pretty sure there's no options quite that heavy. I hope ...

EDIT: and besides, the F150 brochure lists Max payloads for each engine and configuration separately. The F250 brochure does not list the engines separately. So F150 engine choices are not really "options" as far as calculating actual payload. Dealers should have a list of weights for F150 options so your actual payload can calculated.

[SAD]

In msny cases that is exactly what happens, now compound that with being overloaded and you have the recipe for a big lawsuit.
And while you may plead confusion and swear that you didn't know you were overloaded, I'll bet the team of investigators that slick lawyer hires will find evidence that you did know and callously chose to ignore it.

So... You're saying that conviction of a crime correlates to a lawsuit?

[Ken / Claudia]

Sad, that is true here and lawsiuts without criminal convictions happen. I helped with a overloaded vehicle 1 ton Dodge pulling a back hoe that had no working trailer brakes besides over loaded. The driver killed 3, I understood he or insurnace paid out several million. That was on a freeway traffic at speed and had come to a stop, he couldn't. Injuryed or worse, people involved will sue and stuff like what gets posted here will be found and show up in a lawyers office.

[labs4life]

The key words in an insurance policy are "sudden and accidental". If you read the policy verbiage you will find these words numerous times.
Towing "knowingly" overloaded is not either. If you choose to do this, you may never have any repercussions from it...if an accident whether at fault or not, I would be sweating bullets.

Like getting pulled over after you have had a few drinks....

[BruLaz]

It's not just what might happen legally if you get stopped by the weight police. Or if you get in an unrelated accident, and the lawyers discover that your truck is over-weight.

Overloading your axles can have very direct consequences, as I found out when I was much younger and accepted the salesman's advice: "just throw another leaf in the spring pack, and it'll be fine". It wasn't. An axle bearing failed and the whole wheel/axle started pulling out. Luckily I was in town and travelling slowly at the time and a pedestrian waved me down. The wheel/axle was sticking out about a foot from the side of the truck.

I keep wondering what would have happened if I was on the Interstate at high speeds towing something large. Because of that experience, I'm pretty strict about GAWRs. It didn't bother me too much that my previous truck exceeded its GVWR by a few hundred pounds, because the GAWRs (and tire ratings) were always OK. Still, I upgraded as soon as I could.

[SAD]

Like getting pulled over after you have had a few drinks....

If a drunk driver has an accident (single vehicle or otherwise) and is issued/cited for DUI/DWI, would he be denied coverage on his vehicle? What about if he damaged someone elses vehicle?

[Javi]

If a drunk driver has an accident (single vehicle or otherwise) and is issued/cited for DUI/DWI, would he be denied coverage on his vehicle? What about if he damaged someone elses vehicle?
In Texas the insurance company would pay up to the limits of the policy, then cancel the coverage for the driver... After that you go into a high risk pool where the coverage is state minimums and the cost is astronomical.

As a note: once the policy limit is reached, any additional payout is on the individual...

Also, there is no prerequisite of an offence or criminal proceeding needed for insurance to deny a claim or cancel a policy.

And insurance companies have folks on their payroll who's sole purpose in life is to find a way to avoid paying a claim.. My brother-in-law is just such a person.. He spends every working day pouring over accident claims, reports, and hires investigators all in an effort to avoid paying... he often brags about the poor sap he denied a claim to this week...

[SAD]

In Texas the insurance company would pay up to the limits of the policy, then cancel the coverage for the driver... After that you go into a high risk pool where the coverage is state minimums and the cost is astronomical.

As a note: once the policy limit is reached, any additional payout is on the individual...

Also, there is no prerequisite of an offence or criminal proceeding needed for insurance to deny a claim or cancel a policy.

And insurance companies have folks on their payroll who's sole purpose in life is to find a way to avoid paying a claim.. My brother-in-law is just such a person.. He spends every working day pouring over accident claims, reports, and hires investigators all in an effort to avoid paying... he often brags about the poor sap he denied a claim to this week...

Wow... Glad I don't live in Texas! ;)

[Javi]

Wow... Glad I don't live in Texas! ;)

I'll bet that Oklahoma ain't that much different on DUI/DWI or on insurance policies.. Insurance companies are not in business to pay claims... they are in business to make money..

[x96mnn]

My 2 cents on this one:

If you hit someone and are over loaded I think your insurance company will pay and not investigate. It is not in their best interest to state that you were more negligent in the event as it most likely would increase the payout in damages to anyone hurt in the accident. Your main issue here is those hurt wanting more money and hiring a lawyer to go after you either personally or worse yet your insurance company. At this point you will not only have a lawyer trying to prove you were negligent but also your insurance company. Most policies have a fine print that relinquish their liability in a event that that dangerous operation of a motor vehicle is knowingly conducted which then have them suing you for their money back. These events are usually listed such as off road, unsafe loading and competitive racing if not specified at time of purchase, (You can get insurance for weekend track use, very expensive).

Now in the awful event you get into an accident and someone is killed, and it is determined that you were over the weight limit, dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death. This may only come up if speed was a factor and stopping was in question or can be twisted in a 100 different ways. The difference between saying or it being proven you knew your vehicle was overloaded, (finding a post on a website where it was discussed in detail), would be the difference between being charged with Involuntary manslaughter and second degree murder. Two very scary words that depending on the victims families diligence in the matter could be pleaded down.

Just remember one of the most famous court phrases of all time, "Ignorance of the law is not a defence Sir!"

We can toss in hypothetical and what ifs all day long. I guess everyone takes some type of risks as some point and it depends on the individual what is justifiable and what is not. Towing with a half ton can be done safely and enjoy the ride. I am seeing more half tons though having big problems with length and wheel base with these long lighter campers being released.

[SAD]

I'll bet that Oklahoma ain't that much different on DUI/DWI or on insurance policies.. Insurance companies are not in business to pay claims... they are in business to make money..

On March 17, 2005 I got in a wreck, was arrested for DUI, and totalled my vehicle - single vehicle accident.

Insuranced paid out $34,000 for my (then) 1 year old 2004 Dodge 2500 CTD 4x4.... I replaced it with a 2005 (that happened to be 2wd) - and my insurance went down.

True story.

This is the last I'm going to add to this insurance conversation.... Did you ever hear the saying, "If it's doesn't make sense, it's not true."? It applies in the this case... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you (quite possibly true)... But it seems (by the examples I've asked you about - 1 of which I have personal experience with), that you believe if you do something that is against the law - and are caught/cited for it, your insurance WILL cancel you. This is entirely NOT the case.

It is my belief that in EVERY SINGLE ACCIDENT on a public road, one of the participants broke the law. If insurance cancelled each time a law was broken, the insurance companies would do nothing but shuffle insurees back and forth between them because of the MILLIONS of cancellations. This is not what happens.

Over and out! :yawn:

[Javi]

On March 17, 2005 I got in a wreck, was arrested for DUI, and totalled my vehicle - single vehicle accident.

Insuranced paid out $34,000 for my (then) 1 year old 2004 Dodge 2500 CTD 4x4.... I replaced it with a 2005 (that happened to be 2wd) - and my insurance went down.

True story.

This is the last I'm going to add to this insurance conversation.... Did you ever hear the saying, "If it's doesn't make sense, it's not true."? It applies in the this case... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you (quite possibly true)... But it seems (by the examples I've asked you about - 1 of which I have personal experience with), that you believe if you do something that is against the law - and are caught/cited for it, your insurance WILL cancel you. This is entirely NOT the case.

It is my belief that in EVERY SINGLE ACCIDENT on a public road, one of the participants broke the law. If insurance cancelled each time a law was broken, the insurance companies would do nothing but shuffle insurees back and forth between them because of the MILLIONS of cancellations. This is not what happens.

Over and out! :yawn:

I can't speak in first hand on the DUI/DWI but I can speak in first person on being canceled.... I have had it happen twice in my life.. once when I was 21... for a non fault accident in which I was sitting at a red light and another driver hit me... That time the excuse they used was high risk driver... went into the pool for 5 years, the second time was April 27, 1983 when I was hit head on at 70+ mph by a VA patient who was on the way home from receiving medication and became disoriented crossing two lanes of traffic... I was falsely pronounced dead at the scene and the other driver died a couple of days later... I was hospitalized with a shattered hip, the top of my head was scalped and I was paralyzed on my right side for 13 days.... spent 30 days in traction after more than 11 hours in surgery...
My insurance paid in excess of the other driver's minimum coverage.... then sent me a letter at renewal time that I would not be renewed... Fortunately this time I avoided the pool... and today I have excellent insurance rates... but I am very aware of just how easy it is to get canceled..


The fact that YOU didn't lose your coverage is great for you but it doesn't mean that others are not denied coverage for similar circumstances..

[SAD]

I can't speak in first hand on the DUI/DWI but I can speak in first person on being canceled.... I have had it happen twice in my life.. once when I was 21... for a non fault accident in which I was sitting at a red light and another driver hit me... That time the excuse they used was high risk driver... went into the pool for 5 years, the second time was April 27, 1983 when I was hit head on at 70+ mph by a VA patient who was on the way home from receiving medication and became disoriented crossing two lanes of traffic... I was falsely pronounced dead at the scene and the other driver died a couple of days later... I was hospitalized with a shattered hip, the top of my head was scalped and I was paralyzed on my right side for 13 days.... spent 30 days in traction after more than 11 hours in surgery...
My insurance paid in excess of the other driver's minimum coverage.... then sent me a letter at renewal time that I would not be renewed... Fortunately this time I avoided the pool... and today I have excellent insurance rates... but I am very aware of just how easy it is to get canceled..


The fact that YOU didn't lose your coverage is great for you but it doesn't mean that others are not denied coverage for similar circumstances..

So.... I guess BOTH of our personal experiences - and how they differ - is reason enough to exclude from the forums discussion of insurance and the implications of our actions. And stick to RVing.

[Ken / Claudia]

On major crashes the police will take the vehicle computer if it has one. It will tell of speed before and at crash, seat belts useage, air bags, how hard, how long brakes where applied etc. and if possible they (police) will check brakes, steering, tires, wt. the wheels,aftermarket items installed, anything that does look like might be a cause of the crash. Check trailer for same type stuff. The lawyers get copies of the investigtion.