Too much TT?

[js9234]

I posted this in the middle of a thread I started in the Travel Trailer section but I should have posted it here. Here are my specs for truck and trailer that I know.

Trucks GVWR 6800
Trucks Payload 1455
Trucks GCWR 14000
Trucks Max Trailer 8500

Trailer Dry weight 6950
Trailer Load Capacity 2565

I'm not sure what all these mean. I'm almost scared to think of how much I may be over. Can someone simplify this for me. I tried reading up on it but I just got more confused. Basically I need someone to "dumb" it down for me. Unforunately at the moment, getting a different truck is out of the question.

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Moderator's Note:
I deleted your post in the Travel Trailer section.

[Javi]

It means you need a bigger truck :D

[js9234]

I know if I fully load the trailer I will be around 1000 over but not sure about all the other numbers: GCWR GCWR etc...

[Javi]

I posted this in the middle of a thread I started in the Travel Trailer section but I should have posted it here. Here are my specs for truck and trailer that I know.

Trucks GVWR 6800 max the truck can weight loaded
Trucks Payload 1455 GVWR - Curb weight = what you can load on the truck
Trucks GCWR 14000 max the truck and a trailer can weigh
Trucks Max Trailer 8500

Trailer Dry weight 6950
Trailer Load Capacity 2565.. If the trailer is loaded to max then the tongue weight will be approximately 1150 lbs... that's more than the truck is designed to carry if you consider the additional weight of passengers and gear loaded into the truck..

I'm not sure what all these mean. I'm almost scared to think of how much I may be over. Can someone simplify this for me. I tried reading up on it but I just got more confused. Basically I need someone to "dumb" it down for me. Unforunately at the moment, getting a different truck is out of the question.

************************************

Moderator's Note:
I deleted your post in the Travel Trailer section.
Here ya go

[GaryWT]

I hate to say it but I would not do it, you are over your max tow, you are over on your total combined and will be over on payload. Many do not want to approach those numbers never mind going over them. If you tow you put your engine, transmission, your safety and other at risk. I am sure there are people out there that tow this way but...

If you cannot get a truck at this time you might want to look into seasonal for a year or 2. Another option is a campground that has storage and sets your trailer on site when you make a reservation and back in storage when you go home.

Good luck.

[Ken / Claudia]

The true story is many, maybe most load their trailers to max or higher of what the trailer is rated at. Also unless you get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck and load for a week camping you will find that you will be at max or over on the truck. That is just the way it is with most RVers. If you really try hard and weight everything you take, cut out anything that is not needed you might be ok.

[Kristi]

We ran into the same issues when we were tt shopping, we had enough max trailer capacity (8500), but where we would have gotten into trouble was the tongue weight and rear axle max. That's what lead us to the passport, plus I love the floor plan

[js9234]

I kinda figured this. If my truck came factory with 3.94 gears it would have bumped my towing capacity to 10500 with no other vehicle changes. I'm gonna have to travel light and distribute weight well. I should have done a little more research before buying the TT but I probably would have gotten it anyways lol Me and the family all chose this one out of about a week worth of looking at them. It's a Springdale 294BHSSR. Any suggestions from anyone on weight distribution?


The true story is many, maybe most load their trailers to max or higher of what the trailer is rated at. Also unless you get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck and load for a week camping you will find that you will be at max or over on the truck. That is just the way it is with most RVers. If you really try hard and weight everything you take, cut out anything that is not needed you might be ok.

[fla-gypsy]

You will need more truck or less trailer

[SteveC7010]

Here's the essence of the problem. All of the light truck manufacturers have come up with ways to greatly increase pulling capacity of their 1/2 ton trucks. They're all at least 8,500# and as much as 11k# depending on options. What they didn't do is to increase the payload to match the improved pulling ability. 1/2 ton trucks are still stuck with payloads in the 1,400# to 1,700# range.

What this means is that prospective RV trailer buyers see the dazzling pulling capacity and overlook the payload capacity of their trucks. So naturally, they look at larger trailers which the RV sales critters are just delighted to sell. The bigger trailers, both TT and FW, all have tongue/pin weights that go well north of the 1/2 ton trucks' payload ratings when you factor in driver, passengers, some gear, a full tank of fuel, and the family dog.

Oh yeah, the other thing that gets lost in the shuffle is that the pin/tongue weights that are quoted in the sales literature are all based on EMPTY units. Everything you put in a trailer has to be added in when figuring true payload numbers. And let's be realistic folks, we all carry lots of stuff. Especially in the 5er's, full propane tanks, one or more batteries, and all the gear in the basement are all forward of the trailer's axles. Simple geometry tells us that the pin is going to get a lot heavier when you load up a trailer.

This is why I ignore dry weight when talking towing. We need to think in GVWR of the trailer, not empty weight.

TT's are a bit easier to balance to control tongue weight, but we still need the 12-15% tongue weight to deal with sway and such. So on a trailer with a 10K# GVWR, we need to plan for between 1,200# and 1,500# on the nose. That uses up most of a 1/2 ton's payload right away.

Contrast the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that have payload ratings from 1,800# minimum up to 4,500# or better with pull ratings from 12K# up to 18K#. Even more is possible with certain options.

[LittleJoe]

If you are pushing or maxing out the weight capacities of a truck it will not be pleasant to drive and will feel like you are pushing your truck hard all the time. May not be an issue over and hour or two but makes an all day drive taxing on machinery and driver.

Since you already have the truck and trailer make sure you have the WD hitch properly set up and weigh you rig. Make adustments so that your loaded front vehicle height is the same as your unloaded height.

Then weigh you axles individually. Front ,Rear and trailer. If the total weight of an individual axle is more than the GAWR (tag inside door on truck ) and (front left side of trailer)the rig is unsafe and overtaxed. If individual axle weight is over the combined total max tire weight rating, then you need better tires (if increased tire capacity will allow you carry the weight that is not over GAWR) then you are "technically not overweight".

If your use of said vehicle setup is on fairly level ground and not at high speed and over shorter distances it might be considered do-able. If you are in mountainous terrain and or planning long trips you need to be looking at a more capable tow vehile.

This is of course JMHO

[michol02]

I'm under my max towing (9700 lbs)by about 500 lbs and over my tongue weight (1100 lbs)by about 100 lbs. I put a heavier duty truck hitch(1600 lb max), slightly heavier duty tires(2850lbs per tire), and I had an Equalizer 10000#/1000# which I upgraded to a 14000#/1400#. We camp at least twice a month, and the only big problem I have is going up steep hills. I can definitely tell its back there, but I just take it easy, and so far I'm a happy camper. I run my trailer and truck tires about 3 lbs under their maximum inflation. I would love to have a 3/4 ton, but I can get by with this one for now. If youre stuck with what you have, like me, check your tires, lugs, and breaks often and drive extra safe. :cool:

[theeyres]

Do the explanations above now make sense? The reality is: you won't be alone out there. You will probably be overweight and over tongue weight but so are many other rigs. If you take it easy, don't try to go too fast, don't expect to climb hills very fast, you will just be joining some I've seen pulling much larger rigs with 1/2 tons. If you feel OK putting your family into that situation, that is your choice. Chances are you will never have a problem. Chances are you might...

[js9234]

Most of it makes sense somewhat. I'll get it weighed one of these days to see how much I'm actually over, if any but I'm sure I'll be some over. I never really thought about any of this stuff until after I bought the trailer because I assumed you only worried about your tow rating and not much else. I'm sure I won't have any problems. I'm taking it out on a camping trip this weekend which is about a 60 mile round trip. I have a good class IV hitch, 10,000lb WD hitch, and sway bar. Next month we're taking it on vacation on a almost 1000 mile round trip in Texas to the coast. Quite a few hills and LOTS of wind. If I don't have any problems on that trip I shouldn't have any at all.

[x96mnn]

The only issues you may run into is with insurance. Even then the likely hood would be rare that your called out on it but if you do get in an accident or lose control in high winds, (which can happen to 1 ton trucks under their tow capacity), your insurance may call it unsafe operation of a motor vehicle as the cause and not cover you.

This has happened to people, when I insured my new camper and gave the weight of it of 8800pds fully loaded with max capacity. My insurance agent, (Camper herself), asked me if that was dry weight or loaded as my truck was only rated for 9100pds. She stated they go off the weight they are given but if I was over I am libel.

[mhs4771]

Tust me you won't enjoy that 1000 mile trip. Short 1 or 2 hours aren't bad, but when you spend all day pushing the limits you'll be beat at the end of the day and your arms will ache. We originally pulled a smaller/lighter TT with an older 1500 Chevy using a Reese Dual Cam setup. Pulled good, slowed down on the hills, but at the end of the day I was beat, both hands on the wheel all the time.

[js9234]

Definitely not disagreeing. If my truck came factory with 3.94 gears rather than 3.55 I would be within my limit I believe. I believe the truck itself, minus the gears, is within limit or close. Plenty of HP and TQ to get going. Seems so many factors play a part such as type of trailer, truck, gears, tires, WD hitch, sway bar, etc that you almost just have to get it out and try it for your personal setup. It may be a lot worse than yours was or a lot better or same. I'll get a small taste of it this weekend that will prepare me for the long trip. Tust me you won't enjoy that 1000 mile trip. Short 1 or 2 hours aren't bad, but when you spend all day pushing the limits you'll be beat at the end of the day and your arms will ache. We originally pulled a smaller/lighter TT with an older 1500 Chevy using a Reese Dual Cam setup. Pulled good, slowed down on the hills, but at the end of the day I was beat, both hands on the wheel all the time.

[js9234]

Just did the 60 mile camping trip. Not bad at all. Truck had more than enough power and stopped a heck of a lot better than I imagined. Never really swayed but the wind wasn't blowing either. About half of it was hwy at 65 mph. Only thing that I noticed was a lot of popping noises coming from the WDH and sway bar area. It was pretty loud. Is this normal? I also noticed I have grease fittings on my WDH and it had no grease in it. The grease just goes on the bars that go inside the hitch from what I could tell. I just noticed the fittings after the trip. Overall, truck felt great on the road. Just need to buy a few more small things and I think I'll be set. Definitely something to go on our concrete feeling bed lol

[theeyres]

Tust me you won't enjoy that 1000 mile trip. Short 1 or 2 hours aren't bad, but when you spend all day pushing the limits you'll be beat at the end of the day and your arms will ache. We originally pulled a smaller/lighter TT with an older 1500 Chevy using a Reese Dual Cam setup. Pulled good, slowed down on the hills, but at the end of the day I was beat, both hands on the wheel all the time.

On the other hand, we were in almost the same situation and pulled our trailer 1000's of miles including all the way from OR to the tip of Baja. Once we accepted the limits (and I do mean limits of climbing hills very slow, a lot of down shifting) we enjoyed out time. Sure, now that we are back to a trailer but have the 3/4 ton diesel, it is far more enjoyable but it can still be very relaxing if you can accept a slower lifestyle.

[DanandDonna]

Just a note JS changing your gear ratio does not effect the weight carrying capacity of your vehicle in any way. All that it does is gives you better starts off the line and you will get up to speed a little faster. I have a half ton Dodge and change from 3.55 to 3.93's. It also means I tow a little better going up hill. On another note I have never ever put so much stuff into my trailer or truck that I have been overweight.

[js9234]

I don't mind taking my time at all. Thanks for the input. On the other hand, we were in almost the same situation and pulled our trailer 1000's of miles including all the way from OR to the tip of Baja. Once we accepted the limits (and I do mean limits of climbing hills very slow, a lot of down shifting) we enjoyed out time. Sure, now that we are back to a trailer but have the 3/4 ton diesel, it is far more enjoyable but it can still be very relaxing if you can accept a slower lifestyle.

Yeah, I was just making the point that if it came from the factory with 3.94 it would have changed my pulling capacity from 8500 to 10500. It pulled pretty good with 3.55's. I pack pretty light anyways so I doubt I'll pack it to max.
Just a note JS changing your gear ratio does not effect the weight carrying capacity of your vehicle in any way. All that it does is gives you better starts off the line and you will get up to speed a little faster. I have a half ton Dodge and change from 3.55 to 3.93's. It also means I tow a little better going up hill. On another note I have never ever put so much stuff into my trailer or truck that I have been overweight.

[bartman]

JS, I see you got lots of advise, but no one really gave you the simple answer you asked for. I’ll try and explain it…..simply, here’s kinda how it breaks down.
Your truck probably weighs about 5400# (truck GVWR 6800# – payload 1400#). Your trucks GCWR is 14000# (truck weight 5400# + max trailer weight 8500#). The trailer is 7000# empty with a tongue weight that’s probably about 875# (7000# X .125(10%-15% of trailer weight)). Now for the confusing part. The tongue weight counts as two things. It’s part of the trailer weight, but it’s also cargo for the truck since the truck is physically supporting that portion of the trailers’ weight. So dry weights of truck with trailer comes to: truck 5400# + tongue weight 875# + trailer 7000# = 13275#. That leaves you with 725# of cargo capacity (GCWR 14000# - dry weight of truck and trailer 13275#) that can be distributed between the truck and trailer. That 725# has to include all passengers, liquids in the truck and trailer (gas, propane, water), the hitch assembly, plus gear, clothes, and food. If your gas tank holds 30 gallons, there goes 180#. Two 20# propane tanks weigh 60# full. Plus a 30# trailer battery and a 30# hitch assembly means you have a whopping 425# left for passengers, gear, clothes, food, and water if you choose to carry some in the trailers tanks. Then there’s axel weight ratings to consider too, but that’s another story.
Whether or not your combination is safe, legal, or ethical isn’t my place to say. Like threeyrs said, there are lots of rigs out there operating outside of their manufacturers specifications, some grossly. You’re the only one that can decide whether or not you’re comfortable with what you’re doing. You have to drive it, and ultimately accept any consequences of your actions. That being said, hope you have a great trip next month and an enjoyable drive.

[js9234]

Thanks... Yeah, I need to go weigh it when it's fully loaded with passengers and gear to see if I'm within the limits. It pulls and stops great. I have't been on the highway for more than 60 miles yet but it didn't sway much during that time. I'm taking a 400 mile trip Memorial Day weekend with some big hills and lots of wind so that will be the real test. Thanks again for dumbing it down for me lol JS, I see you got lots of advise, but no one really gave you the simple answer you asked for. I’ll try and explain it…..simply, here’s kinda how it breaks down.
Your truck probably weighs about 5400# (truck GVWR 6800# – payload 1400#). Your trucks GCWR is 14000# (truck weight 5400# + max trailer weight 8500#). The trailer is 7000# empty with a tongue weight that’s probably about 875# (7000# X .125(10%-15% of trailer weight)). Now for the confusing part. The tongue weight counts as two things. It’s part of the trailer weight, but it’s also cargo for the truck since the truck is physically supporting that portion of the trailers’ weight. So dry weights of truck with trailer comes to: truck 5400# + tongue weight 875# + trailer 7000# = 13275#. That leaves you with 725# of cargo capacity (GCWR 14000# - dry weight of truck and trailer 13275#) that can be distributed between the truck and trailer. That 725# has to include all passengers, liquids in the truck and trailer (gas, propane, water), the hitch assembly, plus gear, clothes, and food. If your gas tank holds 30 gallons, there goes 180#. Two 20# propane tanks weigh 60# full. Plus a 30# trailer battery and a 30# hitch assembly means you have a whopping 425# left for passengers, gear, clothes, food, and water if you choose to carry some in the trailers tanks. Then there’s axel weight ratings to consider too, but that’s another story.
Whether or not your combination is safe, legal, or ethical isn’t my place to say. Like threeyrs said, there are lots of rigs out there operating outside of their manufacturers specifications, some grossly. You’re the only one that can decide whether or not you’re comfortable with what you’re doing. You have to drive it, and ultimately accept any consequences of your actions. That being said, hope you have a great trip next month and an enjoyable drive.

[js9234]

Just fyi. I ran across an awesome deal on a 2012 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with a Hemi and 3.73 gears and traded. A little upside down but piece of mind and safety was worth it. My other truck did pull well though and my trip got cancelled because of the Tornados. Now I have to figure out how to corrcetly set up my WDH for this truck because it sits much taller. Also, I will be sending y'all the bill for my trade in lol