Moved to Towing category

[RV Newbie]

Good afternoon! We are new to the world of travel trailers and are strongly considering the 2013 Passport 3220BH. We are a family of five and want to get something that can carry our family through early childhood and the teenage years. Our concern with this purchase is the wheelbase of our vehicle.

Our TV is a 2011 Infiniti QX 56 (4WD). The weight and power parameters appear to be fine:

Max Tow Capacity = 8500 lbs
Max Tongue Load = 850 lbs
GCWR = 14,480 lbs

5.6-liter V8 Engine
400 hp
413 pound-feet of torque

Our main concern is the wheelbase of our TV = 121.1in.
The Overall length = 208.3 in.

If we put a Reese DC system with automatic brake assistance on the Passport 3220BH, will it be safe to tow with our vehicle (assuming that we are diligent about checking our weight distribution and staying within recommended parameters)?

The dealership, of course, says yes. Since our most precious cargo will be on board the TV (our kids) I was hoping that one or more experienced towers could also give me their opinions/suggestions before we make the purchase. If we need to go smaller we will do so, albeit reluctantly.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[therink]

Hi, what is the gross vehicle weight rating (gvwr) of the trailer? Assume 13% tongue weight and make sure it does not exceed the gvwr of your Infinity fully loaded with passengers and gear. I think you may have a an issue here. That is a heavy trailer and in my opinion will require a 3 quarter ton truck to tow safely.
I'm sure others will chime in. Adequate wheelbase is am issue with trailer that long. There is a formula to use but I can't recall what it is.
Steve

[x96mnn]

Not a great or even good trailer TV combination. Your TV should not be towing much more then a 24ft trailer. Rule of thumb is 120" for 24 feet then every 4" of extra wheel base buys you a foot more.

I attempted a very similar combination in a camper that was 27ft and a TV which had 109" wheel base. I added the Reese dual cam system to the set up and it was an absolute nightmare. I could not go over 40mph and not have the trailer pushing the rig all over the place. I had plenty of power and no trouble stoping, it was the almost constant being pushed into the incoming lane that made us tow it twice then park it for a season full time until we bought a truck.

Maybe if you add the Hensley system it will give you the control but the Reese IMHO from experience is out matched in that set up.

I think most replies in here will tell you not to even think about it doing this. A crew cab truck most likely be needed and possibly a 2500 series. That camper loaded up 8k with about 900 pds of your payload used up and a lot of 1500 series trucks only come with 1500pds payload. That's only leaving 600 pds for all your family, hitch and anything else you add to the truck which is not an lot.

[cathcartww]

I think your concerns are valid. You have to work out the numbers, but you are going to be right at the capacity of the SUV, and the short wheelbase will not help the handling qualities. If the kids are still small, and their toys not too heavy, you might be OK in the short term, but you are probably not going to like how things tow in the long run once the toys get more numerous, and the kids want to bring friends.

I think you are going to be in the market for a bigger TV in the near future. How about a nice one ton van?

[davidjsimons]

As mentioned above, that's 24' counting the tongue. The unit you're looking at is around 35' 5" counting the tongue. Power, with newer tow vehicles, is seldom the problem.


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[RV Newbie]

Thanks for the input everyone! Here are the trailer specs per the manufacturer's website:

Shipping Weight: 6040 lbs
Carrying Capacity: 1460 lbs
Hitch Weight: 600 lbs

Please let me know if they change or reinforce any opinions. Thanks!

[RV Newbie]

Not a great or even good trailer TV combination. Your TV should not be towing much more then a 24ft trailer. Rule of thumb is 120" for 24 feet then every 4" of extra wheel base buys you a foot more.

I attempted a very similar combination in a camper that was 27ft and a TV which had 109" wheel base. I added the Reese dual cam system to the set up and it was an absolute nightmare. I could not go over 40mph and not have the trailer pushing the rig all over the place. I had plenty of power and no trouble stoping, it was the almost constant being pushed into the incoming lane that made us tow it twice then park it for a season full time until we bought a truck.

Maybe if you add the Hensley system it will give you the control but the Reese IMHO from experience is out matched in that set up.

I think most replies in here will tell you not to even think about it doing this. A crew cab truck most likely be needed and possibly a 2500 series. That camper loaded up 8k with about 900 pds of your payload used up and a lot of 1500 series trucks only come with 1500pds payload. That's only leaving 600 pds for all your family, hitch and anything else you add to the truck which is not an lot.

Thanks so much for the formula! :)

[davidjsimons]

I think you have a wonderful vehicle and are looking at a nice travel trailer. I just don't believe that you are going to like the results of the combination.


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[RV Newbie]

I think you have a wonderful vehicle and are looking at a nice travel trailer. I just don't believe that you are going to like the results of the combination.


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Thanks David! Your feedback and that of everyone that has taken the time to reply is greatly appreciated. As a complete novice, I am so happy to have found this forum to get honest opinions before buying. We are hoping to avoid a costly mistake! We will now focus on 23' trailers like the 2300 BH as there is no way we will be upgrading our vehicle anytime soon. :)

Best wishes!

[Festus2]

RV Newbie -

Without taking into consideration any weights or ratings of the 3220BH and the Infinity based on its wheelbase alone, I would not recommend towing a trailer whose overall length is probably 35 ft.

Since it appears as though you will be keeping the Infinity, I would suggest that you look for a trailer that is shorter and better suited to this SUV.

[SteveC7010]

What is the payload rating for the SUV?
How much do the five of you collectively weight?
How much stuff would you carry in the SUV and its weight?
What is the rear axle rating for the SUV?

If you have read any of the other towing threads (and I strongly encourage you to do so), you will quickly see that factory tongue weight ratings are on EMPTY trailers with no options installed. That means that as soon as you put anything in the trailer, you will alter the tongue weight.

You should calculate your trailer's tongue weight at 12 to 15% of the trailer's GVWR, not it's empty weight. Your proposed trailer has a GVWR of 7,500# which means you should have the capability of handling tongue weights of as much as 1,125#. Not saying you'll actually get that heavy, but for the tow vehicle to properly and safely match the trailer, you should have enough payload rating to handle the tongue, the people, a full tank of fuel, and any gear you might carry. Even at 12%, you'd still have a 900# tongue to consider. Experienced folks like a safety margin beyond that of at least 10% capacity. Typical payload capacity on SUV's, even the big ones like the Suburban and Tahou, is almost always less than 1,000#. I doubt that your Infinity has a payload rating greater than 900#.

Real life experience: We bought a '99 Sunline new at the end of 1998. It was a 25' trailer with a factory tongue weight listed at 535#. A friend has a scale especially made for weight trailer tongues. We scaled the Sunline with an actual tongue weight of 820#.

Another friend had a 25' trailer with a GVWR much higher than our Sunline. Her scaled tongue weight was consistently over 1,000#. She towed with Ford F350's.

Typical payload ratings on new half ton pickups range from about 1,400# up to around 1,900#. Even those numbers are stretching it for a 35' trailer. Now you begin to understand why so many of us have 3/4 ton trucks. Yes, there are also many folks here who do tow with an SUV or a half ton. However they understand towing and have experience at it, usually a lot.

Read over a bunch of threads here on towing. We've answered the same questions from other SUV owners with the same answers you see here.

I am sorry that the answers you are hearing from us are not what you'd like them to be.

[SAABDOCTOR]

Of course you can tow with that THE SALESMAN WANTS A SALE HE WILL SAY ANYTHING TO MAKE IT ok done yelling. as others have posted you need to go smaller in the trailer or larger in the truck. please remember your tv will get it going with out a problem. but stopping it will be:eek: at best. I understand why you want that trailer with your family. but please consider a better qulified tv. to keep your family safe.I towed my present trailer with a dodge 2500 td numbers were all good but what a differenace when i put it on the 3500! good luck in your search. all the best:)

[ewkearns]

Not a great or even good trailer TV combination. Your TV should not be towing much more then a 24ft trailer. Rule of thumb is 120" for 24 feet then every 4" of extra wheel base buys you a foot more.



Hmmmmm...... so, a 32 foot trailer would require a wheelbase of 120" + (8*4") = (at least) 152 inches? That would just about insure that it was an American, 1 ton, crew cab, with a long box.....!

[ewkearns]

Not familiar with the tow vehicle, so I looked at the specs and found some serious blah-blah-blah stuff in the mice type.....

Of serious importance is the GCVW and the Axle Weight Limits.....

GCVW looks really small when you consider the weight of the vehicle plus the number of people and assorted junk for that many folks....

I think I noticed something that didn't make sense.... IMHO, you can't really have:

Max Tow Capacity = 8500 lbs
Max Tongue Load = 850 lbs

I would consider that the Max Tongue load would limit you to a safe 7,000 lbs.

Another consideration is that trying to produce 400 hp out of that small a displacement is going to cause towing to sound like a Formula 1 race, except when headed down hill....

[SteveC7010]

I think I noticed something that didn't make sense.... IMHO, you can't really have:

Max Tow Capacity = 8500 lbs
Max Tongue Load = 850 lbs

I would consider that the Max Tongue load would limit you to a safe 7,000 lbs.


Some of these towing ratings on SUV's in particular are not really for travel trailers and such as your numbers clearly point out. However, boats get towed a lot, and generally are balanced on their trailers so that tongue weight is a lot less than what we expect on a TT. That's some of the reasoning behind large pull ratings in SUV's and now the 1/2 pickups.

[davidjsimons]

Some of these towing ratings on SUV's in particular are not really for travel trailers and such as your numbers clearly point out. However, boats get towed a lot, and generally are balanced on their trailers so that tongue weight is a lot less than what we expect on a TT. That's some of the reasoning behind large pull ratings in SUV's and now the 1/2 pickups.

To support that point, I have some rather large and heavy pull behind equipment. The tongue weight on those units are only 8%.


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[Randy_K]

Hmmmmm...... so, a 32 foot trailer would require a wheelbase of 120" + (8*4") = (at least) 152 inches? That would just about insure that it was an American, 1 ton, crew cab, with a long box.....!

Nope, sorry.

My 2010 Ford F150 Super Crew with a 6.5 foot box has a wheelbase of 157 inches.

Randy

[davidjsimons]

The wheelbase on my one ton long bed crew cab is 171".


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[x96mnn]

There are a few 1500 series trucks with a 150 to 162" wheel base but the average is around 140". I believe this is the reason there is a lot of expensive anti sway hitch systems sold today. The campers are being made much lighter and longer giving a lot of people the tail wagging the dog even though they are way under the max tow weight.

Not sure if these systems could make up for a 30" difference though...the Reese dual cam system cannot from my experience.

[ewkearns]

Nope, sorry.

My 2010 Ford F150 Super Crew with a 6.5 foot box has a wheelbase of 157 inches.

Randy

Ooooops... my bad! I guess I got some bogus info on the Net (whoda thunkit?). Anyway, thanks for catching my mistake and adding about 10 inches to my wheelbase. My short-short bed crew cab is now 143.5" and I am good for a 29'-10.5" trailer! Oh...... bout there now..... never mind......:p

[RV Newbie]

I truly want to thank everyone for your feedback and advice! These RV threads are wonderful sources of info and a great resource for first time RV buyers. Thanks to the information that you all provided, we have now changed our focus completely to hybrid trailers. They seem to be the best combination of usable space (when opened), short length and low weight.

We have found one that we really like that offer great features for our family with the following specs:

GVWR = 6432
DHW = 432
Ext. Length = 24'10"

It seems to be a much better fit for us and being tent campers prior to having kids, there is nothing like hearing all of the sounds of the outdoors at night (as long as the campground is quiet right?)! ;)

Thanks again!

[davidjsimons]

If you look on the Virginia Campers group page, there is a member selling a very clean and fairly new Shamrock 21 SS. I know it's not a Keystone product, but it may be worth a look. It is located in Oak Hill, Va.


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[The Sod Father]

JMHO, but I think you can stick with your current combination of a 35' trailer and your Infinity if you lash them together with a Hensley Arrow. I had horrible sway issue with my Expedition and 35 trailer lashed together with an Equalizer. I went back and forth with the folks at Equalizer and at one point, a guy suggested I ditch the Expedition for a pickup truck. Before going to that extreme, I bought a refurbed Hensley directly from the factory. I have not had a single sway issue since.

Food for thought.

[JRTJH]

JMHO, but I think you can stick with your current combination of a 35' trailer and your Infinity if you lash them together with a Hensley Arrow. I had horrible sway issue with my Expedition and 35 trailer lashed together with an Equalizer. I went back and forth with the folks at Equalizer and at one point, a guy suggested I ditch the Expedition for a pickup truck. Before going to that extreme, I bought a refurbed Hensley directly from the factory. I have not had a single sway issue since.

Food for thought.

I agree with your assessment that a Hensley may help or even completely eliminate the OP's potential to encounter sway, but the Hensley weighs even more then the Reese he was considering. With his rear axle weight as well as the GCWR and GVWR, he will still have issues with overloading even if he eliminates the sway. His choice of RV with the TV he has just isn't a good combination even if the sway is controlled by a Hensley.

[JRTJH]

I truly want to thank everyone for your feedback and advice! These RV threads are wonderful sources of info and a great resource for first time RV buyers. Thanks to the information that you all provided, we have now changed our focus completely to hybrid trailers. They seem to be the best combination of usable space (when opened), short length and low weight.

We have found one that we really like that offer great features for our family with the following specs:

GVWR = 6432
DHW = 432
Ext. Length = 24'10"

It seems to be a much better fit for us and being tent campers prior to having kids, there is nothing like hearing all of the sounds of the outdoors at night (as long as the campground is quiet right?)! ;)

Thanks again!


I agree with you, the hybrid RV's do offer much more usability in a shorter length. In reality, they are good 3 season campers and offer most of the conveniences that a hardwall RV offers. Some problems you'll encounter are potential leaks around the fabric/vinyl attachment points, issues with mold if you close the RV when it's damp or when it's raining (and don't open to dry when you get home), heating and cooling the bed areas in extreme temperature (both hot and cold climates). However, as a compromise RV, I'm sure you'll make many happy memories with your family in your new choice. Plus, travelling will be much more enjoyable for the driver and I'm sure the kids will appreciate a smiling parent once they get to the campground LOL

As for numbers, with a GVW of 6432, you will realistically see tongue weights between 635 to 965 lbs. That's 10% to 15% of the trailer weight.

IMHO, you'll be much happier travelling with this RV in tow vs a 35' monster.

[gregrc75]

Another possible option for a shorter trailer would be the Keystone Outbacks with the rear slide out. It is sort of the same concept of a hybrid but without the tent ends if that is not desirable to you.

[JRTJH]

It's not what's desirable to any of us, rather what's desirable to you and your family. The last thing you want to do, I think, is use opinions on here (or anywhere for that matter) to mandate your final selection. They are opinions and may help guide you in a general direction, but certainly they are only that, suggestions from others who have used RV's in the past and currently enjoy them. The final choice of what's right for your family should be YOUR decision, based on reviewing the options available and the opinions of others, but ultimately, you're the family that will be sleeping in it, towing it and hopefully making many happy memories in it. Be sure that whatever you buy, it feels right to you, makes you confident that you and your family will enjoy it and that it gives you a smile (or a grin) every time you look at it.