Plumbing & Electrical Diagrams

[Andrew010]

Anyone know where I can get diagrams/schematics for a Cougar High Country 321RES? Plumbing is a main thing I would like but electrical and anything else would be great as well.


Any help is appreciated!

[SlowPoke]

A quick search on the forums, will reveal there really are none, as we have all commented on how these things are kinda concept designs. They think 'em they spec them, then someone down the line throws the plans to the winds and gets 'em done...

Just the way it seems to work. Wish I could be more help! Someone here may have more insight for what you're asking, but I don't think what you need is available in a capacity that you can use.

[Andrew010]

I've been searching around the net and not finding anything. I was hoping maybe someone had an 'inside' connection for this sorta thing.

I realize it's a long shot but figured it didn't hurt to ask.

[Festus2]

Andrew010 -
You are not the first person to ask about plumbing and electrical schematics for your RV. The answer that I will give you is exactly the same as earlier requests --Keystone doesn't provide them and if you should come across a secret place where you can obtain them, you could make yourself quite a bit of money here on the forum.

I don't recall anyone ever having come across schematics of any description. Generally speaking, all RV's have pretty much the same wiring and plumbing but it may be laid out differently at the assembly line. Smith may route the lines from A to B a bit differently than Jones and so-on.

You may be able to Google "RV wiring" or RV plumbing and come up with the basic principles and diagrams followed by all manufacturers. Or go to your public library and see what you can dig up there.

Some time ago one of our members (SAD) posted a schematic but I wouldn't place any confidence in it. LOL If you're looking for a light-hearted attempt at RV diagrams - have a look at his old post.

Good luck in your search.

[billb800si]

And that's a shame. I know our last trailer ( 2007 Jayco Eagle 322FKS) it was easy getting the electrical diagrams and the wall stud diagrams from Jayco. They just sent me a pdf file and I printed it out.
No problem.
Keystone seems to have a big problem communicating with customers. I send in emails with questions and NO REPLY. Keystone- WAKE UP!!!!!

[JRTJH]

And that's a shame. I know our last trailer ( 2007 Jayco Eagle 322FKS) it was easy getting the electrical diagrams and the wall stud diagrams from Jayco. They just sent me a pdf file and I printed it out.
No problem.
Keystone seems to have a big problem communicating with customers. I send in emails with questions and NO REPLY. Keystone- WAKE UP!!!!!

Yelling for Keystone to wake up on this forum won't do you any good. Keystone doesn't monitor this website nor do any of the Keystone employees hold membership in this forum. We are not affiliated with Keystone RV in any way and the disclaimer (in red) at the bottom of every forum webpage hopefully makes that clear.

[Htfiremedic]

Andrew010 -
You are not the first person to ask about plumbing and electrical schematics for your RV. The answer that I will give you is exactly the same as earlier requests --Keystone doesn't provide them and if you should come across a secret place where you can obtain them, you could make yourself quite a bit of money here on the forum.

I don't recall anyone ever having come across schematics of any description. Generally speaking, all RV's have pretty much the same wiring and plumbing but it may be laid out differently at the assembly line. Smith may route the lines from A to B a bit differently than Jones and so-on.

You may be able to Google "RV wiring" or RV plumbing and come up with the basic principles and diagrams followed by all manufacturers. Or go to your public library and see what you can dig up there.

Some time ago one of our members (SAD) posted a schematic but I wouldn't place any confidence in it. LOL If you're looking for a light-hearted attempt at RV diagrams - have a look at his old post.

Good luck in your search.

It was in color too... Had to agree with it!
Lol

[SAD]

At the risk of getting in trouble with Keystone - and perhaps legal copy write risk - I am going to reluctantly repost my plumbing diagram.

While it may not be exact for each and every unit, I believe most who view it, feel it's fairly accurate.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PKPABZhqUmU/T7JllTepGII/AAAAAAAABEk/IrecK0pKuy8/s800/water.jpg

[billb800si]

Yelling for Keystone to wake up on this forum won't do you any good. Keystone doesn't monitor this website nor do any of the Keystone employees hold membership in this forum. We are not affiliated with Keystone RV in any way and the disclaimer (in red) at the bottom of every forum webpage hopefully makes that clear.
============
Understand!!
But one never knows if a Rep is browsing a forum. Marketing people are information gatherers by nature.
I've spent over four months researching various 3 slide trailers. Have had to deal with various dealers where I know more about the product they're selling than they do. Had to talk with manufacturers that showed little concern about accommodating the public.
The Japanese ate the American auto manufacturers lunch by building products that Americans wanted. The RV Industry should pay attention to their clients. WE are the reason they are in business.
Happy trails,

[Bob Landry]

The idea that Keystone haphazardly throws their trailers together at the whim of the workers is far from accurate. Like any manufacturing facility, they know exactly what goes into their product, where it is located, who made it, and how much it costs. Why they refuse to release even the most basic construction and component information , even after the warranty period is up, is totally beyond me. Many other manufacturers will. These guys won't even give out a brand name for a plumbing fixture. For whatever reason, being CYA or whatever, that is the reason why I'm probably a one time Keystone buyer If there is another trailer purchase in my future, it will be after making some "ghost" phone calls to cust service and a lot of homework, much in the same manner you would call a computer tech support line to insure you weren't going to have to talk to Ralph in India. I would love to run into a Keystone rep at a RV show and ask them why they have that policy, do they know how much repeat business it costs them, and do they even care.

[SAABDOCTOR]

the only way to find out what the wireing and pluming looks like is to take it apart:eek: i know it would make life easy but that would not be fun. I do like the drawing a couple of posts ago that pretty well sums it up.I have allways woundered if all of us on the forum got together we all could build on heck of a trailer company!!!:cool:

[Comptech]

You forgot to plumb in the black and grey tanks... LOL:rofl:
At the risk of getting in trouble with Keystone - and perhaps legal copy write risk - I am going to reluctantly repost my plumbing diagram.

While it may not be exact for each and every unit, I believe most who view it, feel it's fairly accurate.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PKPABZhqUmU/T7JllTepGII/AAAAAAAABEk/IrecK0pKuy8/s800/water.jpg

[Jim W]

And that's a shame. I know our last trailer ( 2007 Jayco Eagle 322FKS) it was easy getting the electrical diagrams and the wall stud diagrams from Jayco. They just sent me a pdf file and I printed it out.
No problem.
Keystone seems to have a big problem communicating with customers. I send in emails with questions and NO REPLY. Keystone- WAKE UP!!!!!

When I toured the manufacturing plant for JAYCO there were no schematics or blue prints available to the line assemblers. I watch the cabinet maker with interests since I am into woodworking, all he had was a cut list and he stated he built the cabinets from memory since he did the build the same ones over and over. We then went down the assembly line and watch the assemblers put together several 5er’s at a time and not at anytime was a print in view during the assembly process or an electronic work station (monitor).

I also know that some million dollar mining machines that are built do not have hydraulic blue prints for lines routing nor electrical wiring layout’s. Drove field mechanics nut’s when servicing them trying to figure out the correct hydraulic/electrical wire to fix or component.

This is not just a Keystone problem with manufacturing it is industry wide depending on the type of product that is being built. If it is low volume production unit than lines routing prints are not usually produce too much cost VS return on investment. Low volume is usually less than 10 units a day being built.

Jim W.

[billb800si]

When I toured the manufacturing plant for JAYCO there were no schematics or blue prints available to the line assemblers. I watch the cabinet maker with interests since I am into woodworking, all he had was a cut list and he stated he built the cabinets from memory since he did the build the same ones over and over. We then went down the assembly line and watch the assemblers put together several 5er’s at a time and not at anytime was a print in view during the assembly process or an electronic work station (monitor). I also know that some million dollar mining machines that are built do not have hydraulic blue prints for lines routing nor electrical wiring layout’s. Drove field mechanics nut’s when servicing them trying to figure out the correct hydraulic/electrical wire to fix or component.
This is not just a Keystone problem with manufacturing it is industry wide depending on the type of product that is being built. If it is low volume production unit than lines routing prints are not usually produce too much cost VS return on investment. Low volume is usually less than 10 units a day being built.Jim W.
====================
Jim, thanks for the input. You may be right. I do know this. When I received the prints from Jayco the electrical outlets were exactly where the print said they would be. Now Jayco required I enclose my VIN # and when I received the pdf file it said which page to print out for the correct wiring diagram. There were about 6 or 8 different pages so apparently they made many changes on the 2007 Model 322FKS trailer that year.
Keystone may be the biggest RV manufacturer on the block but their customer service in responding to inquiries leaves much to be desired. Companies spend tons of money advertising and when a customer responds there's just silence???
Oh well onward and upward..

[Bob Landry]

Well said, and that has been and continues to be my point. These trailers are not simply thrown together by production people who are given boxes of parts and spools of wire and told to just go out there and put it in. Everything that is done on theses trailers including mid-model year changes is carefully documented. Keystone just seems to be more protective than most of their design information. As far as owners getting together to compile diagrams and schematics, that would entail exposing the entire underneath and dropping ceilings on every model they make, and tracing out every wire, electrical component and pipe, not something most people if any would want to tackle.

A factory tour would be interesting to say the least, but don't think that because a worker would not have written instructions in front of him, something isn't being done to exact specifications and done the same way every time. Most of these people , like most assembly line workers, have done the same job thousands of times and once they are given a change, they quickly commit it to memory and move on.

My personal opinion is that if Keystone does not want to disclose any of this information, they should grow a set, belly up to the podium, and tell their customers their reasons for not wanting to support them and answer questions. It's not going to happen, and they will remain in their little cubicles and private offices with the secretary screening their calls.

[billb800si]

My personal opinion is that if Keystone does not want to disclose any of this information, they should grow a set, belly up to the podium, and tell their customers their reasons for not wanting to support them and answer questions. It's not going to happen, and they will remain in their little cubicles and private offices with the secretary screening their calls.
====================
Exactly.
meanwhile I'll keep peppering them with inquiries until I get a response. And if that mean's bugging people higher up the food chain- so be it.
I'm spending a chunk of money on the 2014 321RES and if I have questions at least I expect some courtesy with a reply.
Happy trails,

[Festus2]

====================
Exactly.
meanwhile I'll keep peppering them with inquiries until I get a response. And if that mean's bugging people higher up the food chain- so be it.
I'm spending a chunk of money on the 2014 321RES and if I have questions at least I expect some courtesy with a reply.
Happy trails,

If you are going to "keep peppering them" with inquiries about obtaining an electrical schematic for your TT, then you are going to end up being more frustrated and angry than you are now. :banghead: We already know that Keystone does not, for whatever reason(s), provide this information to their customers.
No matter who you bug, the secretary or someone "higher up the food chain", they aren't going to give it to you.

But you are right in that a reply of some sort from them would certainly be something to expect. How difficult is it for Keystone to say, "Sorry, we don't give this information to our customers because........" ??? :confused:

[billb800si]

But you are right in that a reply of some sort from them would certainly be something to expect. How difficult is it for Keystone to say, "Sorry, we don't give this information to our customers because........" ??? :confused:
==============
Sorry, I should have explained myself better. Wasn't referring to diagrams or schematics. Meant to refer to answering questions in regard to just what is the construction of the Cougar High Country- what are the dimensions of the sofa bed & mattress, is the battery cutoff switch still available on the 2014 model- are the taillights on the 321RES L.E.D. or incandescent- is there a step light on the 2014 321RES.... Questions of that nature. I've requested answers about those and some other matters and all I get is SILENCE???
Happy trails,

[billb800si]

Ladies & gentlemen, just received a nice reply from Jim Mac at Keystone. Said he is checking with the Production Mgr. to see if there is a construction illustration of the Cougar High Country lineup. I looked everywhere before contacting Keystone because I found a nice illustration of the Cougars but not the Cougar High Country. I wanted to know what the walls especially were laminated with (Luan- Azdel etc...) and what type of roof insulation..
My opinion of Keystone's customer service is improving...:)"bouncey:

[MarkECampr]

You'll have to get familiar with how things work before they break.
I've never used white and black for DC voltage but my new Bullet uses white from the battery to (frame) ground. I've even found a white jumper between hot leads of two terminal blocks. Sheeezze.
On top of that, the battery connections are so short that the wires are straight point-to-point from the battery and the case has to be all the way to one side of the battery rack so they'll reach.
I'm looking into getting new wires but lug sizes create a problem. Such as a 3/8" lug on the battery + goes to a 3/16" lug on a terminal block. The auto/marine stores don't carry them and the crimpers are fairly expensive. Oh well, I'm looking around at some of the auto "up fitters" and custom shops for some "made to order" services.

[ewkearns]

....Why they refuse to release even the most basic construction and component information , even after the warranty period is up, is totally beyond me. Many other manufacturers will. These guys won't even give out a brand name for a plumbing fixture. For whatever reason, being CYA or whatever, that is the reason why I'm probably a one time Keystone buyer If there is another trailer purchase in my future, it will be after making some "ghost" phone calls to cust service and a lot of homework, much in the same manner you would call a computer tech support line to insure you weren't going to have to talk to Ralph in India. I would love to run into a Keystone rep at a RV show and ask them why they have that policy, do they know how much repeat business it costs them, and do they even care.

I agree 100%. :thumbsup: Although, technically, I own a Hornet, not a Keystone, I have read far too much negative press all across the net to ever plan to risk buying a Keystone, should we ever elect to upsize. Nearly every forum tells the same tales with different models and different owners. You can't ignore that. I don't know that I could ever afford a New Horizons, but I won't deal with non-communicative vendors.... whatever they sell. I guess I'll have to do due diligence, should the opportunity arise.....

[SAD]

I agree 100%. :thumbsup: Although, technically, I own a Hornet, not a Keystone, I have read far too much negative press all across the net to ever plan to risk buying a Keystone......

I guess then technically I own an Avalanche and not a Keystone? :confused:

[sjturbo]

Gotta love it! I'm going to show SAD's plumbing schematic/diagram to my 6yr old grandson if I have any issues, I'm sure he will have no trouble with it. That must be why people have hot water connected to their toilet. Although I'm sure that most production people take pride in their work, the two new 2013 models I saw at the dealer were not likely assembled by them!

[dglsrichmond64]

At the risk of getting in trouble with Keystone - and perhaps legal copy write risk - I am going to reluctantly repost my plumbing diagram.

While it may not be exact for each and every unit, I believe most who view it, feel it's fairly accurate.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PKPABZhqUmU/T7JllTepGII/AAAAAAAABEk/IrecK0pKuy8/s800/water.jpg

This is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dglsrichmond64]

I was trying to find my hotwater line that runs from the sink to the shower ?????????????. The shower hotwater hasnt worked for a week but eveything else in the coach is fine cant figure out if it is frozen or i have dirt in the valve when i removed the filters

[JRTJH]

I don't have your floorplan, but from what I can see, the hot and cold water for the shower share the same water runs as the washer/dryer space. If you have hot water at the washer outlet, then the problem is the short run from that tapoff to the shower faucet. You should have an access panel behind the washer/dryer and there is a standoff in the shower to which the faucet is mounted. Between those two access points, you should be able to verify that the hot water run is not frozen.

My guess would be that the 1/2" PEX is slightly longer than necessary (so the faucet can be pulled out of the wall enough to disconnect it) and when the faucet is installed, the PEX line bows toward the wall, probably touching it, which provides just enough contact with the cold wall to freeze that section of pipe. If that's what is occurring, possibly you can "finagle" the PEX enough to get it to bow inward so it doesn't contact the outer wall or place a short piece of foam pipe insulation on that section of PEX..... Let us know what you find if you go "exploring".... Good Luck !!!

[rjrelander]

Although I'm sure that most production people take pride in their work, the two new 2013 models I saw at the dealer were not likely assembled by them!

I have a feeling that some of the production people are taking more pride in their memory of work instructions than they should. :) Pretty sure that production workers where I work would be shown the door, right after the inspectors that let the product ship.

[Bob Landry]

Their goal is to get a specified number of units out the door that meets the production schedule. They factor in a certain number of "mistakes", usually 3-5%, and if that's met, it's good to them. The dealers(and the owners) take it from there.

[TLB]

That diagram looks correct to me.

[Tinner12002]

From what I understand the service people don't even have diagrams, its all find and seek!

[notanlines]

Tinner, you are on the money. Chuckster has said a number of times that plumbing and electrical diagrams are nonexistent.

[sbarlag]

Often it comes down to contacting your dealership and going through the Service Department,,,they have contacts with the manufacturer.

Scott
Product Spcialist

[jimthemosaicguy]

Yep. Pretty darn close. 1499814999


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[Tinner12002]

Often it comes down to contacting your dealership and going through the Service Department,,,they have contacts with the manufacturer.

Scott
Product Spcialist
Camp-Land RV
Burns Harbor, IN
[email protected]

I've done that also and they tell me that they, service dept, doesn't have them, and that Keystone doesn't have them either. I'm sure someplace there is a book showing what has to go where but its obviously something they don't want to share. If you can get them for the different models then I'll be first in line to purchase one!

[travelin texans]

If by chance there are drawings/schematics they are merely suggestions for the guys on the line, they WILL NOT be asbuilts. I was taught that the shortest distance is a straight line, but those guys must get paid by the foot for ducting, wiring, plumbing, & tv cable, there's one heck of a birds nest of that stuff behind my basement wall. I've also picked up about 1/2 a box if screws, wire pieces & wood cut outs, so they definitely don't bend over to pick anything up if dropped.