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Old 08-12-2019, 12:13 PM   #1
Spletbr
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Half ton fifth wheels

Looking for any experiences this group has with the half ton fifth wheels. We want to move up from our travel trailer as fifth wheel towing is safer and more fun. We have a F150 with tow package, etc. Ford guide says our model can take a 10k # fifth wheel. Really? We could handle the 27SGS with a weight of 8k # ok?
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:16 PM   #2
sourdough
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Just to get started thinking about it, find the sticker inside the driver door of your truck and get the payload/gvw/gawr. Take the gvw (not dry weight) of the trailer you are looking at and multiply it by .25% (10,000 lbs. x .25 = 2500). That is your estimated pin weight. Subtract the pin weight and what do you have?
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:22 PM   #3
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I am sure you will get a lot of response here on your question; I can be a first. Safest answer is no. Dry weight of the rig should not be considered when looking at your towing ability; you'll want to calculate what the rig would weigh fully loaded. And more importantly, it is all about your payload - the truck's payload that is. Pin weight (at 20% of the total loaded weight of the rig) plus all the weight of your truck (passengers, full tank of gas, etc). Compare that number to your yellow door sticker. I have a Cougar half-ton 5'er and am right at my max payload for my F250.

If I could go back in time, I would have gotten the F350. As mentioned, I'm sure you'll hear from many on this forum that the "half-ton towable" 5th wheel is more of a marketing angle, in that there are only a select few half-ton trucks that can truly, safely, tow one.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:54 AM   #4
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I am sure you will get a lot of response here on your question; I can be a first. Safest answer is no. Dry weight of the rig should not be considered when looking at your towing ability; you'll want to calculate what the rig would weigh fully loaded. And more importantly, it is all about your payload - the truck's payload that is. Pin weight (at 20% of the total loaded weight of the rig) plus all the weight of your truck (passengers, full tank of gas, etc). Compare that number to your yellow door sticker. I have a Cougar half-ton 5'er and am right at my max payload for my F250.

If I could go back in time, I would have gotten the F350. As mentioned, I'm sure you'll hear from many on this forum that the "half-ton towable" 5th wheel is more of a marketing angle, in that there are only a select few half-ton trucks that can truly, safely, tow one.
I too would have bought a very capable TV a few years ago rather than "experimenting". I had a Dodge 2500 Cummins and a Cougar X-lite, supposedly that could be towed with a half-ton. My 2500 struggled. I upgraded to a 3500 and that was very capable of towing the Cougar. In my opinion the only RV that is 1/2 ton towable are those that are very light weight. Would I tow a fifth wheel with a half ton? Nope. Yes, the manufacturer of those trucks will claim "tow ready" which in many cases is just the wiring, brake controller and the hitches. Our 3500 diesels are much more capable with larger axles and brakes, robust suspension, exhaust brakes and engines/transmissions that can handle those loads.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:51 AM   #5
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Saying things like, "We wanted a capable tow vehicle for when we travel but also want a vehicle that gets good gas mileage when not towing and is easy to park in the grocery store parking lot" is much like saying, "We want a large family, maybe 8 or 10 kids, but don't want our grocery bill to be any more than when it was just the two of us."

If you can find that vehicle, (I haven't)...
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #6
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I learned the hard way

I learned the hard way. The first thing is to weigh the 5th wheel with everything you are going to take on a trip Including fresh water and full propane half full black and gray tanks use water to fill them. Now go to a CAT Scale (pilot, Flying J. or other) and weigh the truck and trailer with axles on different parts of the scale so each axle is weighed. Yes the 1/2 ton I was using would pull the so called half ton trailer, but I was way over its limits. The Pin weight alone was 1,540 Lbs this with the front compartment almost empty and very light items in it. The batteries and full propane tanks added a bunch. Then I checked the axle specs and the tires on the half ton tow veh and found that they were not designed to carry all of the weight from the trailer and what was in the truck. I also had a F250 and it was barly in spec's. Never had a problem towing even in the mountains, but I wish I would have had a F350 for safetys sake. Weigh weigh the rig fully loaded and then make a desicion.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Spletbr View Post
Looking for any experiences this group has with the half ton fifth wheels. We want to move up from our travel trailer as fifth wheel towing is safer and more fun. We have a F150 with tow package, etc. Ford guide says our model can take a 10k # fifth wheel. Really? We could handle the 27SGS with a weight of 8k # ok?

You want to throw the "Ford guide" out the window and use real numbers. The "guide" is simply a sales tool that gets WAY too many people in trouble. BTW, the Cougar 27SGS is a 10,300gvw 5th wheel. There is a very real difference between "pulling" an RV, which most trucks can do with even very large units, vs "carrying" the load of said RV. "Tow" ratings are spouted all over the place and mean absolutely nothing. Same goes for "max payload" of xxx trucks; you won't have that one. It ALL depends on your specific truck and what those stickers say inside the door.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:58 AM   #8
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I don'thave payload on a sticker in the truck, just GVWR, GAWR. According to the Ford guide my model (3.5EB, 7k GVWR 4x4) should have a payload of 2050. Do I expect a in weight of 20% or 25%? And wgen you say the 27SGS is a 10.3k GVW are you saying that is what it would be fully loaded? I am looking at a 250 for safety and sanity sake but need to explain that need to you-know-who with the right numbers...
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spletbr View Post
I don'thave payload on a sticker in the truck, just GVWR, GAWR. According to the Ford guide my model (3.5EB, 7k GVWR 4x4) should have a payload of 2050. Do I expect a in weight of 20% or 25%? And wgen you say the 27SGS is a 10.3k GVW are you saying that is what it would be fully loaded? I am looking at a 250 for safety and sanity sake but need to explain that need to you-know-who with the right numbers...
Unless someone tore it off or removed it, is there. It's another white sticker with yellow highlighted areas on it. Your payload capacity will be in the upper right hand corn area.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #10
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Appreciate all the input!
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:49 PM   #11
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Yep, what they said. You'll likely be over your GVWR with a 5er but, to see for sure load your truck for a regular trip out with the TT (firewood, full fuel tank, pets, tools, all family members, etc...). Go to the nearest scale and weigh it. Subtract your actual weight from the GVWR listed on the door sticker and this will tell you how much payload you have left but, remember your hitch will likely add about 150lbs to your vehicle. Good luck!
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:27 PM   #12
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Spletbr....I too was in your position. I WAS going to pull the trigger on a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel. BUT I already had all the bumper pull equipment and did not want to spring for the 5th wheel hitch gear (the wife really-lol)
I crunched the numbers and....I tow at the very limits of my 2014 F150 Boost with the Max Tow & Payload Package 4x4.
This isn't my first rodeo towing a large trailer with a half ton. I have a lot of aftermarket goodies on my truck and love the way it tows!-Not for everyone, especially on this forum....and that's fine.
Also, I did not want a small 25-27' 5ver....
I'm on here because of my AWESOME Keystone 2018 Outback 328RL.
Good luck in your search!
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:51 PM   #13
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You asked for 1/2 ton towable experience with a 1/2 ton pick-up; so here goes...

In my experience the "1/2 ton towables" are designed to offer a lighter pin weight 15-20% vs 20-25% so adjust to 20% when checking payload to determine a truck. Mine is typically 17.5% of my scaled weight. I weigh at least once per year so I know where I'm at on weights.

That being said I do NOT recommend just any 1/2 ton truck with just any "1/2 ton towable". Do your due diligence, It is your responsibility as the operator to ensure that your rig is safe and within the limits established by the manufacturer. This holds for any towing setup not just 1/2 ton users.

Know your available payload by weighing your wet loaded truck and subtracting that from your GVWR not the yellow payload sticker.

Use the GVWR of the proposed trailer for estimating how much payload you need to tow the trailer. Understand that even with a "Payload Package" you will be close to the rated numbers on your vehicle and many people are not comfortable with that. If you're not comfortable with that, then move up a vehicle class but do the same due diligence. Understand that 3/4 ton truck is still a class 2 truck and may have similar limits.

Ford has the Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP) option but they are rare and you usually have to order it finding a used one in the wild is difficult at best. Nissan Titan XD has high payload ratings as well >2k on many rigs. I have an F-150 with the HDPP and a stickered payload of 2337 and tow what you see in my sig in the Rockies fairly often so I can speak from experience.

I would not recommend any Ford F-150 1/2 ton for towing a fifth wheel that is not equipped with the HDPP and Max Tow.

I am under all of my limits but I am close. My truck tows well and I have no issues.

By towing I mean:
Pulls adequately and keeps up with traffic even in mountains.
Maneuvers well in heavy traffic.
Stops well under normal (conservative?) driving conditions. I keep it under 65 MPH and keep at least 4 seconds between me and the vehicle in front of me.

Tow Vehicle and Trailer can perform aggressive emergency stops and maneuvers (aggressive left and right lane changes) if required. These are practiced in a large parking lot every year. You have to know how your vehicle behaves and what its limitations are.

Just my .02
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:55 PM   #14
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If you don't have the HDPP, at a typical 20 percent pin weight I think you're gonna be fighting a losing battle.

I tow with a half ton, and don't agree with the majority of this forum that a half ton isn't capable of anything more than a lawn mower on a tiny utility trailer and ONLY if it isn't full of gas, but there are definitely limits. Just knowing you have a tow package doesn't mean a whole lot. You could have anything from a 6,000 to about a 13,000 (as rated) towing capacity, and anywhere from about 1200 lbs to about 3000 lbs of payload.

I like to look at my gvwr and gcvwr and determine capabilities from that. Looking at that "payload" rating on the door sticker can get you in trouble. I like to know my gvwr and weigh my truck as is to determine what I have to work with.

Google "20xx f150 towing guide" to give you an idea about ratings on your truck as equipped. Figure out your gcvwr and your gvwr (which is on the door) and look at your rear axle rating as well. There are separate ratings for 5th wheel than bumper pull.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:18 PM   #15
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OP, and herein lies the conundrum...some do, some don't, some wouldn't for anything and some would no matter what.

Many folks on the forum believe bigger is better and in many cases that is true, but not all cases. In the matter of a 5th wheel you might think about that moreso than other, smaller trailers. If you like to be safe and have a real safety margin (10-15% of capacity) then you will find it nigh unto impossible with a 1/2 ton of any kind - but you can do it if you don't mind being close to overrunning your numbers.

As has been pointed out, the only 1/2 tons capable of towing a small 5vr are as rare as hen's teeth - simply due to the construction of a 5th wheel; pin weight and heavy hitch. Don't take those things lightly....you'll be like the guy I saw in CO with his 1/2 ton pulling a fair sized 5vr; sitting on the side of the road with the rear tires blown out....yep, P rated tires. I'm sure he could blow and go down the road....it just wasn't made to "carry" it.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:44 AM   #16
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We bought a small 5th wheel in 2013, a Crossroads Cruiser. We then had to find a pickup (Sticker Shock!) We wanted a half-ton for better mileage when we weren't towing. We shopped around carefully and ended up ordering a Ford F150 6 cycl Ecoboost, specifically sized to tow our camper safely (heavy-duty payload, tow package, etc.). MANY people told us what a huge mistake we were making, that a half-ton would never tow a 5th wheel or that the brakes, engine, transmission wouldn't hold up.

Here we are, on our second small 5th wheel, towing it with our 2014 F150 with no problems. We have 50,000+ on it and have towed the camper all over the US, including the Rockies. No problems with the engine or transmission, we had the brakes replaced this year. I love our choices and combination.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #17
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I have a similar set up but am concerned about payload. I’m only at a little under 1600. How about yourselves?
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:19 PM   #18
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I have a similar set up but am concerned about payload. I’m only at a little under 1600. How about yourselves?
If your payload is under 1600 lbs...no way are you going to get a 5ver that will fall under that all loaded up, hitch and family and all, ready to go! Unless it's a teeeeeeeeny tiny 5ver. Lol


I used to tow 5th wheels. Now it's a bumper pull. A 5th wheel does tow better. Due to the geometry and physics it's almost impossible for one to sway like a bumper pull, but it's not the end of the world. Good hitch selection, careful hitch setup, and good loading will go a long way.

There are other pros to a bumper pull. Such as roof clearance. A little less likely to catch on tree branches in wooded parks or Lord forbid on a low bridge that you didn't pay attention to. There is one not that far from the in NC that is infamous for taking out RVs.
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:02 PM   #19
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I always towed a 5th wheel until now. Wish I still did, but compromises must be made. A 5th wheel certainly pulls better, but with a good WDH, a trip to the scale to dial it in, some attention to ratings, and attention to loading, you can get a bumper pull that will fall within ranges and have it tow fine. I like my Curt True-Track hitch so far.



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Old 08-12-2019, 09:42 PM   #20
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I also had a 1/2 ton Chevy, was looking at the 1/2 ton 5r’s. After looking at the limitations on the truck and the limitations of the 5r, I decided to upgrade .
The 2500 has bigger brakes, axel, suspension, fuel tank and more.
The full size 5’r had more cargo capacity, twice the capacity for water, gray tanks, black water. That allowed adding portable generators, fuel, extra water tanks, more cargo, more food, plus better quality cabinets, bigger refer, better counter tops, bigger TV’s and a few solar panels with extra batteries.
But all of that comes with a bigger price tag for the truck and for the 5’r. For us, we spend a couple months a year in the rv and can be traveling over steep passes regularly. My needs tipped the scales for the larger rigs.
My big tip, don’t believe what the dealer says, they will say anything to get you to buy something. You need to run your own numbers on the truck and the 5’r. Compare cargo capacities between multiple tow vehicles and multiple 5’rs. If your not a numbers person, ask a friend to run the numbers for you. You then can make an educated decision and one that you will be happy with because you know the facts.
Happy Camping!
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