Slide warrenty

[roadglide]

I received e mail from Keystone Industries today. Keystone replayed back saying the slide has 90 day warranty everything after the 90 days is routine maintenance also explaining a worn seal making the slide jump. that's it right from Keystone. I have managed to adjust the slide after unraveling the mess from HW its not perfect but i'm ok with in and out from the slide.

[sourdough]

Keystone/CW repaired my slide under warranty long after 90 days. I think it has a lot to do with who presents the case to Keystone (dealer/service manager) and the manner in which they do it.

[JRTJH]

Slide repair "should be" (never say never) covered under the warranty for the entire year. Slide "ADJUSTMENT", like door adjustment, cabinet adjustment, etc is only covered during the first 90 days. After that, any adjustment is considered by Keystone to be "routine maintenance"...

If your dealer wrote it up as a slide adjustment, chances are Keystone's "eagle eye" in the warranty department caught it and denied the claim. If your dealership "found a way to describe a repair" to the slide, it should have been covered by Keystone.

That said, what the dealer called the repair on the warranty claim and how he described the condition and the repair action is probably the "key" to the payment or denial.

[mark1228]

That's all true, but if the dealer did an adjustment and called it a repair to get it covered that is warranty fraud so don't be surprised if a dealer won't do it

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by mark1228

That's all true, but if the dealer did an adjustment and called it a repair to get it covered that is warranty fraud so don't be surprised if a dealer won't do it

I don't think John was suggesting fraud. I think he was saying that if the dealer wrote it up as an adjustment instead of as the repair that was done, then their miswording the form caused the reject. That would be unfortunate to say the least.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

I don't think John was suggesting fraud. I think he was saying that if the dealer wrote it up as an adjustment instead of as the repair that was done, then their miswording the form caused the reject. That would be unfortunate to say the least.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

You are correct, Chip. As a "for instance" if a pulley had loosened and a cable had come off the pulley, the dealer would likely have "tightened the pulley attachment and readjusted the slide cable." stating it that way, Keystone may or may not approve the warranty claim. If, however the dealership had documented, "Pulley attachment pulled away from the wall and cable no longer properly attached. Reattached pulley to mounting plate, secured mounting plate to wall of trailer and reinstalled slide cable. This required readjustment of the slide mechanism."

So, depending on what failed or broke (if anything) the dealer's technician may document it as a repair or may simply state, "attached pulley and adjusted slide," in which case, Keystone would likely not approve as readily.

I don't think anyone would expect a dealer to "lie for them" no matter how frustrated we might be about a situation. However, documenting appropriately to assure the warranty work is approved (if it is warranty) is something I'd certainly expect the most honest dealership to "go to bat for me"....

[chuckster57]

Don't forget a bunch of pictures!!

[roadglide]

I see keystone having to deal with incompetent dealers pencel wiping a work orders. I did report questionable work to keystone about work said being done under warranty.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by roadglide

I see keystone having to deal with incompetent dealers pencel wiping a work orders. I did report questionable work to keystone about work said being done under warranty.

Herein lies the "rub" that distinguishes "great dealers" from "oh-well dealers". If you consider that the dealership is going to get paid no matter, they are "always the winner". If Keystone refuses the warranty payment, the owner "pays the tab". So, for the dealership, if the service manager and the owner aren't "on the same page" the "front office" won't usually know there's a problem. To the "profit motivated bookkeeper" whose job it is to keep the dealership making money, as long as "somebody pays the service order" they'll be happy. To the service tech, as long as he gets his "Friday paycheck" he's happy, to the Keystone warranty clerk in Goshen, as long as the "percentage of claims" is within the goal, they're happy, and to the dealership owner, as long as the business stays "in the green" he's happy.

That's not to say that a dealership is "good or bad" or that "Keystone doesn't care"... Rather, business is profit motivated with "occasional burps". So depending on who reviews a "burp" and how they react and how it "fits what else is going on right now" the factory may or may not view it as a problem.

So, it's up to the RV owner to look out for himself by questioning denied warranty claims, keeping an eye on "what and how" each claim is documented, but without being an "insider" most RV owners are "handicapped" by having to accept what the dealership tells you "Keystone said"...... Many (I'd hope most) dealerships are "in it for the consumer as well as the bottom line", but here again, if you bought it in Kansas "on the cheap" and are expecting your "home town hero" to have your best interest at heart while his paying customers are waiting patiently for service, well.............

As for "reporting to Keystone what the dealer is doing," keep in mind that most of those "one time (or occasional) customer reports" are looked at by a busy clerk, filed away or not acted upon and soon forgotten. For the few that are "compared to the dealer's reportcard" and elevated to management at the factory, Keystone doesn't have very much influence in how the dealership is run. Each is a private business, not supervised by the factory and not licensed by the factory. As long as it's not affecting Keystone's bottom line, they probably won't be motivated to step in on a problem to strongarm a dealership unless a significant negative trend is occuring.

[sourdough]

This thread just re-emphasizes what we keep saying all along; the dealer is THE most important aspect of the RV owners experience. Hopefully from just the sale perspective, but more importantly, they are crucial if you have problems. The good ones try to support you through the sale, quality inspections, follow ups, working with you on issues and trying to take care of you the best they can. The "bad" ones are there for the sale. They make their money up front, from the sale, not warranty work or coddling customers.

As far as reporting dealers for something that an owner feels is amiss; I doubt seriously that they (Keystone/RV manufacturers) care. They want a dealership that turns units and makes money. They don't want, or care about, warranty work, how the dealer handles customers, what color the bathrooms are, what products are on the shelf....they just want them to sell their product. I'm sure if a situation was bad enough they might do "something" but I have my doubts about one private business intervening in another private business telling them how to do their job. If things got bad enough I suppose Keystone would just pull their product from the dealer.

Another point made is how/what is said to Keystone, or any other RV manufacturer, when trying to get warranty repair authorized. It is imperative that the dealership describe the work needed/performed in an accurate way but also in a way so that Keystone can understand that "whatever" malfunctioned due to some sort of defect; not left wide open for Keystone to assume maintenance or neglect. I have personally encountered this and had the decision reversed when the circumstances were presented properly by the dealership. If you have questions ask the dealership to provide you exactly what was written and submitted to Keystone - you might be surprised.

[dcg9381]

I can tell you that Keystone just completed a repair on my slide, 18 months after the sale. If slide openings are cut wrong or there isn't enough clearance, the seals can tear or otherwise cause binding... 90-day warranty on slides sounds like a bunch of hog-wash to me. I understand for slide "adjustment" - although slides should stay in adjustment for more than 90 days. Nothing you can do on an accu-slide that would cause seal binding in the adjustment range that I know about.

[roadglide]

All that is true about dealers and Keystone corporation but when a dealer management tell me they did work that key keystone denied. That I never knew about being wrong and there eating a big ticket item like replacing a holding tank with out some disturbance of the under belly that's fraud. I think Keystone is on top of bad dealers. I hate more then any thing being coned or sweet talked for there incompetence.

[mark1228]

[QUOTE=ctbruce;220022]I don't think John was suggesting fraud. I think he was saying that if the dealer wrote it up as an adjustment instead of as the repair that was done, then their miswording the form caused the reject. That would be unfortunate to say the least.


Probably true but I took the sentence below to mean that a dealer should "find a way" to make it a repair instead of an adjustment. You shouldn't have to find a way to the truth, even if the customer doesn't like it.



"If your dealership "found a way to describe a repair" to the slide, it should have been covered by Keystone."

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by mark1228

[

Probably true but I took the sentence below to mean that a dealer should "find a way" to make it a repair instead of an adjustment. You shouldn't have to find a way to the truth, even if the customer doesn't like it.



"If your dealership "found a way to describe a repair" to the slide, it should have been covered by Keystone."

I responded, and as I've learned to do with this kind of response, I waited for a few minutes, cooled down and deleted that response.

Here's the "amended version" If you start your response with the word "PROBABLY" chances are you're guessing and aren't convinced you're interpretation is accurate. If you had read the paragraph immediately following your "quote of mine", it pretty much refutes your concern that a dealership is "expected to lie" and I go on to explain that that no dealership should "lie" for a customer"...

So, if it's important enough to respond, please quote me "in context" and possibly, if it's important enough to you, send me a PM and ask me "What did you mean?" rather than try to second guess and getting it wrong.

Thanks.

[ctbruce]

I believe the context for this was set in a previous post:

"This thread just re-emphasizes what we keep saying all along; the dealer is THE most important part. Another point made is how/what is said to Keystone, or any other RV manufacturer, when trying to get warranty repair authorized. It is imperative that the dealership describe the work needed/performed in an accurate way but also in a way so that Keystone can understand that "whatever" malfunctioned due to some sort of defect; not left wide open for Keystone to assume maintenance or neglect. I have personally encountered this and had the decision reversed when the circumstances were presented properly by the dealership. If you have questions ask the dealership to provide you exactly what was written and submitted to Keystone - you might be surprised."

Sourdough hit it right on the head. This is not and never was about cheating. It is about getting the dealer to do the right thing. When that happens, everyone wins.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[roadglide]

If I had know about HW being incompetent with there management and service I would have ran away. We have been looking into small class A my next purchase will be from Camping World. There is big CW dealership in Anthony tex I stop and browse around a few times a month. Im also a good Sams card hold.

[mark1228]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I responded, and as I've learned to do with this kind of response, I waited for a few minutes, cooled down and deleted that response.

Here's the "amended version" If you start your response with the word "PROBABLY" chances are you're guessing and aren't convinced you're interpretation is accurate. If you had read the paragraph immediately following your "quote of mine", it pretty much refutes your concern that a dealership is "expected to lie" and I go on to explain that that no dealership should "lie" for a customer"...

So, if it's important enough to respond, please quote me "in context" and possibly, if it's important enough to you, send me a PM and ask me "What did you mean?" rather than try to second guess and getting it wrong.

Thanks.

Actually, "probably" in this case means he is more than likely correct. I did reread your post and did not get that out of the last paragraph. In any event, I had no intention of making anyone angry, my original post was simply stating that a dealer has to be honest on a warranty claim or it is fraud. I did not mean to infer that you were "suggesting" a dealer be dishonest or that you had any bad intentions so I apologize if you took it that way.

[sourdough]

To set things straight...in my mind, John never insinuated that anyone commit fraud to get things done under warranty. What he did to, maybe in not the best words for some, was to underline the fact that the dealership HAS to describe the problems accurately and make sure that if it is a "failure" or "defect" it has to be clearly related to the manufacturer (Keystone, et al).

Just went to the CW dealership today in Tallahassee thinking about replacing the trailer we're in while camping here because I'm not happy with some items. Talked to the salesman, sales manager/manager and they no longer carry Keystone due to quality/warranty issues with Keystone. The sales manager did say that they made some of the best products out there at great prices that others were trying to meet (as well as quality...used to be) but that in the last 2 years they had had a lot of problems with some of the construction (interiors) and the willingness of Keystone to stand behind their product.

I asked about the problem of Keystone honoring warranties and he said they were all the same (manufacturers); it ALL hinges on the service writer and what they send to the manufacturer. If they cannot, or do not, describe the issue and illustrate how it is a defect or failure the manufacturer will deny the claim. I think that is exactly what John was trying to say when he said "find a way". I can, and do, say a lot of things, and can say them in a multitude of ways. One has to make sure that those trying to express a problem conveys that in the proper way and context or you are going to get....

[James262]

Originally Posted by mark1228

That's all true, but if the dealer did an adjustment and called it a repair to get it covered that is warranty fraud so don't be surprised if a dealer won't do it

Wow!! So many positive and helpful comments by this guy.