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Old 10-14-2018, 11:43 AM   #21
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Location: Kansas
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That good to know that "The manufacturers do not set the legal limits." Since the 'Manufacture GVWR and the Manufacture GAWR" are both listed on the "Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label" are all manufacture ratings and the legal limit is 20,000 pounds on my F150 axles. Heck with Manufacture Ratings they put on tires since they Manufactures can't set legal limits.

I don't think that is correct information and also dangerous information that you can register the weight you need to haul and don't pay any attention to Manufacture Specs.

Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
Here is a post forum another forum where a retired state weigh master explains it.

Question: My concern is the legal aspect of being so close, or barely above the legal limit.

His answer: Legally there is no difference between an F-250 and an F-350. The manufacturers do not set the legal limits. That's what your legislature does. The 10,000 lbs you referred to is not a legal weight restriction. Ford, GMC, Chevy, Dodge nor any other truck maker determines legal weight. They don't make the laws.
Generally, the legal weight limits are 20,000 lbs on a single axle. You're not anywhere close to the legal limit with your 5er nor will you be with either the F-250 or F-350.
Some states register vehicles based on the weight they haul. For example, if you register your truck for 10,000 lbs then that's the max weight you can haul. But if you want to haul 14,000 lbs then you buy registration for the increased weight.
But in either example, the manufacturer has nothing to do with either."

In another post he wrote:

"You guys keep quoting GVWR. Obviously neither of you understand that GVWR is not actual weight. GVWR is Gross Vehicle WEIGHT RATING. A rating. Not actual weight."

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Old 10-14-2018, 12:28 PM   #22
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Here are couple more easily verifiable facts.

If you trucks is rated to carry say tow 17,000 pounds SAFETY by SAE J2807 it must be able staying under both the GVWR and the GAWR of the truck. Here is my reference:

"5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations:
The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR.e and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR."
TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

Here is another one that listed in the tow guides and the truck's manual you carry in your glove box.

“5th-Wheel Towing Notes:
This information also applies to models with pickup box delete option (66D). Trailer kingpin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer kingpin load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. The addition of trailer kingpin load weight, and the weight of passengers and cargo, must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle’s Safety Compliance Certification Label”
On Page 30

This was sent to me by the GMC Fleet Manager when I ask about exceeding the GVWR of my GMC truck.

You may not give much thought about those figures while making short trips or carrying a couple of small items, but when it comes time to load your GMC with lots of passengers or cargo, it’s important to keep your GMC’s GVWR in mind. Failure to do so may result in you exceeding the GVWR and overloading your vehicle.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences, including:

Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight
Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner
Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control
Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout


2017 Fleetwood Discovery 40D Class A Diesel Pusher
2016 GMC Denila 1 ton Diesel CC 3722
2017 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R
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Old Yesterday, 09:33 AM   #23
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Well friends...

First and foremost, I am incredibly grateful for all of the helpful advice and wisdom offered. I spent most of Friday scouring various forums and other sources for additional information as I was terrified about the choices we made, concerned for safety and contemplating what on earth we would do. I quickly realized just how contentious this topic is. Rightfully so. If you see someone headed toward a situation you believe could be dangerous to them and people around them, the most humane and kind thing to do is speak up... however I also saw how quickly posts related to weight often seem to have a way of morphing into a black-hole of frustration, condescension and downright anger. I’m grateful that has not happened on this thread, however I am afraid it still could and that is something I will do my best to avoid for my own mental peace. I actually debated responding because I feared exacerbating any friction, but we feel incredibly indebted to those of you who took your time to respond so kindly and thoroughly. We learned so much from you and I wanted to let you know how things went.

Ironically, as we were on the highway heading to the CAT scales with my heart in my stomach over whether our truck was going to break in half or our back tires were going to burst (I can be a bit catastrophic with my anxieties) and over the possibilities waiting for us on the scale, a GM250 with low-profile tires cruised past us towing a triple-axle toy-hauler with a sand-rail trailered behind that! People do make... interesting... choices... but who am I to judge considering where/why we are going. Sadly, he was pulled off to the side of the highway a little further up and a distinctly burnt smell hung heavy in the area. Ugh. My heart hurt a bit for him — but how good it’s just the truck that’s injured and not a person or people.

Anywhoo, we had our weigh-in and found we were far under what I’d been invisioning, and we are comfortable with where we are in relation to axle-rating, pin and GVWR. I was actually pleasantly surprised. Though we’ve been planning on replacing the truck’s tires anyway, we found the current ones have a capacity far higher than the weight they were holding.

Knowing what we know now, would we have purchased the same TV/5er combo? No... because I prefer plenty of wiggle-room and we don’t have much of it with this set-up. Thanks to your kind assistance and our weigh information, we will be conscientious about where/what we load in the 5th and in the TV. (Look at me... using acronyms and whatnot... I actually had to look up what TV was... knew it couldn’t be television ) We believe we are capable of safely and responsibly traveling with what we have until such a time we decide to/are able to upgrade. Just no wiggling.

Thank you all again. Definitely got more than I could have anticipated out of an introductory forum - but we are so grateful for the help and information and we’re better for it.

Happy travels friends.
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Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM   #24
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I'm glad your weights turned out satisfactorily; I expected they wouldn't. A trip to the scales is mandatory IMO when you are towing what you suspect is close to your limits. I, like you, like to have "wiggle room" and not be at the limits of any of my weights. Good luck, happy camping and keep an eye on what you load.
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Old Yesterday, 10:04 AM   #25
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Good for you! Literally! It makes a trip more enjoyable knowing your equipment is built to handle what's coming. Don't be a stranger.
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Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM   #26
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Good to hear!
And by the way we love your part of the world, in the winter that is.
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Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM   #27
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Now that that is behind you go have some fun!

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Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RegardingEverything View Post
Thank you all again. Definitely got more than I could have anticipated out of an introductory forum - but we are so grateful for the help and information and we’re better for it.

Happy travels friends.
Glad you got it figure out after all the ..


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