Do I really need a dually?

[Badbart56]

I think it's safe to say that any of the big three's Duallys from around 2011 and up are quite capable. Brand is really a matter of preference or owner loyalty.

And if my Ford can't handle the job, my work truck is a 2019 Freightliner Cascadia with 455 hp and 1750 ft/lbs of torque with a 12 speed transmission.....

[penra]

Originally Posted by Snoking

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

What percent of traveling equates with DRW?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

I think it's safe to say that any of the big three's Duallys from around 2011 and up are quite capable. Brand is really a matter of preference or owner loyalty.

And if my Ford can't handle the job, my work truck is a 2019 Freightliner Cascadia with 455 hp and 1750 ft/lbs of torque with a 12 speed transmission.....

Well not exactly 2011, talking DRW.
I know my dates will not be perfect, but I believe that Ford was the first to get to or very close to the 14,000# cap on the Class 3 trucks. I think they got there with the introduction of the 6.7 PSD about 2010.
Next was GM and likely about the same time 2010 or 2011 likely the step to 13,025# GVWR.
Ram stayed at a 12,300# Max GVWR until 2013, even though they had a fully boxed frame starting in 2003.
If I remember correctly the Ram 3500 DRW was left out of the FLT Ike towing test for a year or two, as the other two had much higher GVWR and towing ratings.
Now it is GM's turn to be the one playing catch up.
Come 2020 all of the big three will have a 14,000# GVWR on their 3500 DRW, then the battle will be Payload and towing rating (POWER).

So unless the class ratings are changed the manufactures will need to be finding ways to build a stronger lighter TV. I expect to see manufactures to use more aluminum, plastics, and composites in the bodies and beds, and stronger metals in the frame and running gear.
With a 5th wheel puck system, the bed of my Ram could be made out of plastic and not affect the hitch.

Then there is the ford F450, Ford has it classified as a Class 3 truck, Max GVWR 14,000# so for equal trim levels the F450 has less payload than the F350. While it has stronger tires, bigger brakes etc. it has a lower GVWR, just basically forcing owners to exceed the GVWR to use the F450 to it's capacity.


Just my thoughts.

[24vctd]

Laredo, tugged I don’t think he was saying my tucks better than your truck ,just that he likes fords, somebody has to.��

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Snoking

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

Originally Posted by penra

What percent of traveling equates with DRW?

Snoking has an issue with a BIG TV. He went from a 2500 regular cab LB to 3500 CC SB and gained 18". We went from a Ram 2500 Quad Cab long bed to a Ram 3500 CC LB DRW and gained about 12" maybe.
We full time and both drive the DRW, DW will take to town on her own no issue. Just last Friday we went to the grocery store, coming down the row each of the empty spaces had a little planter in it, which I didn't want to deal with. well 3rd spot from the front, bingo no planter, backed right in!! You don't need to park in the south 40!

Front bumpers are even.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Personally I hate when people say "it will be ok to do X because I only tow Y miles a couple times a year" - safe is safe and unsafe is unsafe whether for 2 hours or 200. You will have more exposure and risk in a longer scenario but the same problem is there regardless of duration of use.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel

Personally I hate when people say "it will be ok to do X because I only tow Y miles a couple times a year" - safe is safe and unsafe is unsafe whether for 2 hours or 200. You will have more exposure and risk in a longer scenario but the same problem is there regardless of duration of use.

So do you consider it unsafe to tow at or close to a manufactures rating?

[cookinwitdiesel]

Having reserve is always preferred - but even up to the manufacturer ratings I would not make someone wrong for.

I see people say things like "I will be over but it is ok because we only drive 150 miles 2 times a year" - that is more what I was referring to.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well not exactly 2011, talking DRW.
I know my dates will not be perfect, but I believe that Ford was the first to get to or very close to the 14,000# cap on the Class 3 trucks. I think they got there with the introduction of the 6.7 PSD about 2010.
Next was GM and likely about the same time 2010 or 2011 likely the step to 13,025# GVWR.
Ram stayed at a 12,300# Max GVWR until 2013, even though they had a fully boxed frame starting in 2003.
If I remember correctly the Ram 3500 DRW was left out of the FLT Ike towing test for a year or two, as the other two had much higher GVWR and towing ratings.
Now it is GM's turn to be the one playing catch up.
Come 2020 all of the big three will have a 14,000# GVWR on their 3500 DRW, then the battle will be Payload and towing rating (POWER).

So unless the class ratings are changed the manufactures will need to be finding ways to build a stronger lighter TV. I expect to see manufactures to use more aluminum, plastics, and composites in the bodies and beds, and stronger metals in the frame and running gear.
With a 5th wheel puck system, the bed of my Ram could be made out of plastic and not affect the hitch.

Then there is the ford F450, Ford has it classified as a Class 3 truck, Max GVWR 14,000# so for equal trim levels the F450 has less payload than the F350. While it has stronger tires, bigger brakes etc. it has a lower GVWR, just basically forcing owners to exceed the GVWR to use the F450 to it's capacity.


Just my thoughts.

I think you have it wrong, GM was left out because of low ratings. Chris

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel

Having reserve is always preferred - but even up to the manufacturer ratings I would not make someone wrong for.

I see people say things like "I will be over but it is ok because we only drive 150 miles 2 times a year" - that is more what I was referring to.

Our 5th wheels both share a 16K GVWR and yours is a foot longer. I however could not tow yours with my SRW truck as it was setup and loaded for full timing for a year and a half.

Reason.

Your trailer has a dry pin weight 2900 pounds and would put me over my RGAWR.

I choose a trailer that had a 2435 dry pin weight knowing that anything much more than that would put me over the rear axle rating. We traveled heavy. Truck weighed 8900 ready to tow and 24500 combined. We made two round trips to Arizona with this combination with lots of cross winds on 93 in the middle of Nv and VERY strong winds from Yuma to San Diego on I-8.

When younger I drove a Chevy Titan 90 class 8 day cab tractor that weighed 15K and had 65K of trailer and gasoline behind me. So 8.9k truck and 15.6K trailer did not seem bad.

Chris

[Roscommon48]

Boy, lots of input for a simple question. You do NOT need a dually. A SRW will do you just fine.
More importantly, if this becomes you primarily vehicle you'll like the SRW.


Heck, if you are looking at a new chevy 2019 why don't you wait for the 2020...major weight changes.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Snoking

I think you have it wrong, GM was left out because of low ratings. Chris

No I am pretty sure it was at least the 2012 test that Ram still with a Max GVWR of 12,300# and a max tow rating of around 20,150#. The DRW max payload was 4,690#.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

No I am pretty sure it was at least the 2012 test that Ram still with a Max GVWR of 12,300# and a max tow rating of around 20,150#. The DRW max payload was 4,690#.

Well maybe it was after that the GM was sidelined for tests, as their GCWR was much lower than Ford's and RAM's and the tow tests they were doing. I do not recall seeing sidelined for GVWR issues. Most these mountain tests deal with trailer and combined weight, not the TV GVWR. They tow goose neck trailers where pin/hitch weight is not as big as a deal as with large 5th wheels.

Chris

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE=Roscommon48;346520]Boy, lots of input for a simple question. You do NOT need a dually. A SRW will do you just fine.
More importantly, if this becomes you primarily vehicle you'll like the SRW.


Heck, if you are looking at a new chevy 2019 why don't you wait for the 2020...major weight changes.[/QUOT]

For the OP a SRW MIGHT work, but to say that it WILL is probably not the best advice. Needs to look at all the numbers for the truck & rv that HE has or is getting to best determine whether it "WILL be just fine".
Also as has been mentioned over & over, dry weights mean absolutely nothing once that rv has left the factory, they shouldn't be listed anywhere, they just cause confusion. All weights should be calculated from the GVWs of each particular rv.

[Laredo Tugger]

Post #40 the OP states he is going to get a dually. Which brand? I could care less. He is going to be as prepared and safe as he can for his towing experience. No one can fault him for that.
For his question "does he need a dually?" I would say yes for that trailer he has. Is that set in stone? No, I am sure there are some out there towing that trailer with a 2500 SRW, and think they are just fine
Freedom does have some missteps sometimes.
RMc

[NotyetMHCowner]

The original question is "Do I really need a dually?" Once you define the word "need" you will have your answer. Some would only use the legal aspects to the word "need". Some would use the comfort level of towing to meet their "need".

I for one tow with a dually because I like the comfort level of knowing that I have an extra set of sidewalls out back to keep the truck planted on the pavement with such a heavy payload. My trailer weight is 13,600 and can legally be towed with a SRW truck, but I decided I needed a dually, and I have never looked back. By the way, it has been my daily driver for over 4 years.

[FlyingChief]

I’ve towed the same 5er with both an SRW and a DRW. The DRW has now been my daily driver for more than 4 years. I won’t get into the numbers because you can do that yourself. Instead I can just talk about my experience, because that won’t necessarily show up in the numbers.

First, the DRW feels more stable and planted when towing. I can’t feel a crosswind unless it is severe and I don’t feel or see the trailer being pushed (sway) by the bow wave of passing semis. It is a much more relaxing drive - both on the freeway when we are getting passed and on those severe weather days. Personally, that alone is worth it.

Second, as a daily driver in a dense suburban area, I haven’t had a problem with parking. I often park farther out in lots, but I do the same thing with my car, to avoid door dings. Besides, a little exercise is good for me! I rarely park along the curb, but when I do, I am careful to use the mirrors to put the rear tire very close to the curb and I’ve never had a problem. I will say that the single biggest convenience item in my truck is the electric folding mirrors. I stow them all the time when parked so they don’t stick out and to prevent other folks from walking in to them.

Two inconveniences that I can’t get around. One, I can’t use most drive-thrus (Starbucks, burger joints, etc). Sometimes I wish I could just swing in and grab something, but it just won’t work most of the time. The other is that it is a beast to wash -either myself or I pay someone I do it. My solution? I got silver which doesn’t show dirt (although I love a black truck!).

Finally, my first and last thought every time I set out....and my last words I the wife when she takes the truck to run an errand...”mind the hips”.

I’m an analyzer, too, so I hope some of these intangibles are helpful.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by FlyingChief

I’ve towed the same 5er with both an SRW and a DRW. The DRW has now been my daily driver for more than 4 years.

You did not state what year your SRW truck was, however the latest generation on SRW 350/3500 trucks our not your grandfathers SRW TV. All three up their game a lot, RAM in 2013, Ford in 2017? and GM 201?. Bigger stronger frames, hitches that attach directly to the frame rails, 18 or 20" tires etc etc.

And mine while in Az drives right through the car wash on a monthly pass for 19 bucks/month. So about 5 bucks a wash.

[mcomeaux]

FlyingChief well spoken. All anyone has to do is the numbers. Numbers don't lie. Liability and comfort lays with the user.

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE=Snoking;347183]You did not state what year your SRW truck was, however the latest generation on SRW 350/3500 trucks our not your grandfathers SRW TV. All three up their game a lot, RAM in 2013, Ford in 2017? and GM 201?. Bigger stronger frames, hitches that attach directly to the frame rails, 18 or 20" tires etc etc.

And mine while in Az drives right through the car wash on a monthly pass for 19 bucks/month. So about 5 bucks takecaUOTE]
I assume your taking the SRW through the car wash? Been all across the country & only found 1 drive thru carwash that allowed DRW trucks.