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Old 01-27-2018, 04:13 PM   #1
sourdough
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Keystone Quality vs Others

We have threads and posts from time to time (many of them) lamenting the quality control and poor construction of Keystone trailers. Most know that the issue is across all brands, not just Keystone. But, if you didn't I'll share this:

Day before yesterday I was sitting in the RV listening to all kinds of noises coming from the trailer beside me - they are good friends. He was all twisted up trying to get upside down trying to run a saw in the floor.....of a brand new Bighorn 5th wheel. He has 2 bathrooms and seems the main one would not get warm and his wife was having fits about taking a shower. Now this again is a brand new 38' fiver. He said he had a 4" heating duct to the bathroom and a 1 1/2" hole cut for it to go into. The air just wasn't making it into the bathroom. He had to enlarge the hole to 3 1/2" and now things worked fine.

He has had several other issues that had been fixed before he got here to FL on his maiden voyage but that was missed I guess.

Just saying that lack of QC is not a Keystone problem - it is endemic in RV manufacturing.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:21 PM   #2
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Thor is the parent company of both your Keystone Cougar & his Heartland Big Country, along with just about any make or model you can name, so in my opinion they are the same company just different assembly lines.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Thor is the parent company of both your Keystone Cougar & his Heartland Big Country, along with just about any make or model you can name, so in my opinion they are the same company just different assembly lines.
I understand completely. But, the complaints on THIS forum are usually about the issues with Keystone's and many times focus on the fact that it is just a Keystone issue. They aren't. The fact that Keystone and Heartland are under the same umbrella is pretty much irrelevant. As you stated, they have different assembly lines, but also management, business direction, etc. They ARE different. If you just want to rule out Thor, group it all together and write them off but still want an RV.....good luck.

I was simply trying to point out to those that worry that Keystone puts out a trailer with issues vs others that don't......that birdie won't fly.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I was simply trying to point out to those that worry that Keystone puts out a trailer with issues vs others that don't......that birdie won't fly.
Ain’t that the truth!!!
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:53 PM   #5
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The way I look at it, Airstream is "the" trailer to buy. The most expensive per foot that's sold on the open market... Last time I looked, EVERY Airstream dealer has a service department to fix things that aren't right...... 'nuff said ????

Oh, Airstream is also Thor, so check that Forest River dealer.... Yup, service department behind their sales lot too......
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:07 PM   #6
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It should be important for Keystone and other makers to monitor forums such as this to see what is going on in the real world testing that we all are doing on the products they produce.

Oh sorry, that would require the application of common sense !

.
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Old 01-27-2018, 08:53 PM   #7
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Simply making a point that there's only "ONE" thing that Keystone, any Thor model, any Forest River model, any manufacturer, the BOTTOM LINE, not QC, get them out the factory door as fast as possible.
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Old 01-27-2018, 08:57 PM   #8
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$ $ $ $

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Old 01-27-2018, 09:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
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.
It should be important for Keystone and other makers to monitor forums such as this to see what is going on in the real world testing that we all are doing on the products they produce.
Oh sorry, that would require the application of common sense !
.
Grand Design does (monitor their forum). At least prior to the most recent acquisition. For me, these things (all of them) WILL have manufacturing problems post delivery, it's about how the manufacturer pays the dealers to fix (factory) problems and how many hoops they make their CUSTOMERS jump through to resolve warranty repairs. Accepting that all have problems - we should be talking about service (which yes, is party dealer) - but there are also variations in manufacturers responses (or lack there of) to consumers and IF "reasonable accommodations" can be made to facilitate repairs when customers are away from their home dealer. Simply put: I do not agree with the reality that if you're out of your home state, some non-sale Keystone dealer is going to take care of you..


In regard to the Heartland with cold bathroom, I bought a 475 watt plug-in wall socket heater the other day. Sure beats cutting holes in the floor... Works great in the bathroom, under $40.
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Old 01-28-2018, 05:00 AM   #10
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That's why this is called Keystone forums, so we only hear and read about Keystone products. I would assume most people on this site are Keystone owners so I guess maybe I don't understand your comment about people on here only thinking that Keystone products have issues...
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:19 AM   #11
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If you want to hear some real belly-aching, check in the Forest River forum. Compared to some of those folks, we've got it pretty darn good!

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Old 01-28-2018, 07:00 AM   #12
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So far, I’m quite impressed with our Outback 250urs. Oh, there’s a few little things that I’ve seen that are adequate or really are fine. I just think I can make it better or a little more solid. I’ve installed some “L” brackets in a few places (sofa area), just to strengthen. Added a few screws here and there and I’m gonna install some of those battery powered led touch lights in the exterior storage areas. Since I can’t or haven’t camped yet in it, it gives me time to tinker.
It just seems to be a very well made trailer. The 1st trip out in it will be March 1st. I have my notepad and pen ready.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinner12002 View Post
That's why this is called Keystone forums, so we only hear and read about Keystone products. I would assume most people on this site are Keystone owners so I guess maybe I don't understand your comment about people on here only thinking that Keystone products have issues...

There have been countless comments on this forum about "Keystone's" lack of quality usually inferring that other manufacturers don't have that issue....if they don't in fact just mention the other manufacturer(s) - even if this is just a "Keystone" forum. Just wanted to share that personal experience illustrating otherwise.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:05 AM   #14
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If you want to hear some real belly-aching, check in the Forest River forum. Compared to some of those folks, we've got it pretty darn good!

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I looked around their forum and I would say you correct. Additionally I didn't really see a lot of guys like John and Chuck and others that actually had some knowledge to help out with all the belly-aching. Tons of resources around here.
The way I see it with campers, is they are still built by people. Not advocating robots in lieu of people, but people are variables. A guy having a bad day at work is typically not going to turn out his best work that day...
We sell boats at our shop that are anywhere from 60k-160k, and I can find a warranty claim on almost every brand new one that comes off the truck.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:09 AM   #15
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I disagree with the concept about Keystone concerning how many hoops they make their CUSTOMERS jump through to resolve warranty repairs. In most situations, Keystone does not work with customers to resolve warranty issues. Keystone works with the dealer to resolve problems and if the dealer is doing his job properly, he already knows what Keystone requires in the way of documentation and the customer is isolated from ever knowing what Keystone says and/or having the hassle of dealing with Keystone.

I'm not suggesting that owners should never contact the factory, but that's not the way Keystone chooses to resolve warranty problems with their products. They, not the customer, establishes the procedures to follow. So to somehow suggest that "it's a hassle to deal with Keystone" isn't an accurate depiction of the established process.

Yes, Alice, if you go the wrong way on a one way street, it will take longer to get to the rabbithole......

IF (note the capitals) IF the dealer is doing his job properly, the owner should never know if there's any discussion about or problems with reimbursement for warranty repairs. All the owner should know is that he needed a repair, took his trailer to the dealer at the appointed time and got it back repaired and ready to go camping... That's the result of dealing with a good dealer. Keystone and their procedures should never be the owner's concern.......
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:19 AM   #16
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Nothing you get these days is perfect. I for one wasn't as much unhappy with Keystone over my delivery defect. It was how slow and disrespectful getting it fixed was.
I know most dealerships are responsible to satisfy delivery quality. The shame of it comes down to the prices people are mandated in most cases to pay "Freight and prep". I know these values vary but to be honest the consumer is actually picking up the tab in more cases than not. If the dealer can get one out the door without touching it you still paid for the prep!! Sad but I'm sure it happens. Now when you find something it takes forever to get fixed because they need to contact Keystone to approve the Warranty? WHAT you just paid in some cases 1500 to 2000 to get it to you READY TO GO!!! This is what triggers Frustration!. Even in the smallest of repairs or should I say "delivery preparation". I know this happened to me. And I like so many find out quickly how the TT industry is nothing like the auto when it comes to Post delivery coverage.
Quality is what any consumer expects NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT! But a little bit more transparency would spare people of a lot of aggravation. JM2C
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:29 AM   #17
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To second John's comments (no, I'm not his cheerleader!), it depends A LOT on the dealer. I have bought 3 trailers from the same dealer (2 Forest River and 1 Keystone ). All 3 were PDI'd by the dealer before I went through with them and did my own PDI. I found nothing needing fixing on any of them. I couldn't have been happier. Because of this level of service, I'll continue to buy from them. In my case, the prepaid prep and delivery fee was well worth it. YMMV.

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Old 01-28-2018, 09:18 AM   #18
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Delivery fee is what the dealership pays to get the unit from the factory to the dealership, in our case most anything coming out of Indiana is in the $3000.00 range. I suppose they could just add it to the MSRP, and maybe the buyer wont see it. PDI is NOT PAID BY THE FACTORY!! and as such can be negotiated IMO at the time of sale.

Anybody would be amazed at what I (we) find at PDI. Screws through tanks, miswired, shorted out wiring from brads/staples. Those things arent found at QC at the factrory, no time to put a battery in every unit, fill every tank with water...etc. I have heard many times its cheaper to pay the lousy warranty labor rate and get it fixed at the dealer than hold up the line. AND, I will add htat it is getting harder by the day to get them to pay for a repair, even with pitcures and a novel written.

Case in point: just finished a 2018 Big Horn 31??, MSRP $93,000.00+. 6 water line fittings loose, flooding the basement. one set of lights not working, take the panel off and find a wire not attached to the switch, attach, turn on the lights and it takes out 4 banks of lights. OH JOY finding the blown fuse, then undoing the wire from the switch and start pulling lights out of the ceiling. Got it 1/2 hr later, it was a brad the factory used to install some foo foo trim on the ceiling. That was just part of the issues. Auto level didnt work, turns out the "FROG" was mounted backwards on the frame...You guessed it, had to remove the spare tire carrier and a bunch of underbelly to get to it. again since the QC departent doesnt fill tanks and install batteries, Its not caught where it should have been.

Don't get me started on other brands issues...PDI money is well spent IF THE DEALER ACTUALLY DOES A COMPLETE ONE
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:54 PM   #19
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From what I have seen on Youtube, Jayco has its share of problems also
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Old 01-28-2018, 03:26 PM   #20
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Up until a year ago we had a Forest River Solera class C.

I know that the factory rep reads the posts and replies because I got his attention when I pointed out that the fresh water capacity was actually 10 gallons less than the brochure said it was.

For those of us that do a lot of dry camping this is a big deal. I have not yet measured the capacity on my Keystone Cougar. But, it is documented as 60 gallons so if it is only 50 I can live with that. I think our Solera was 30 instead of the documented 40.

MY PDI Checklist includes measuring tank capacities.
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