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01-28-2017, 08:54 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kelowna, Canada
Posts: 54
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Location on Progressive Hardwired Surge Proector
I am looking into installing a Progressive Industries hardwired surge protector (EMS-HW50C) in my Alpine 3101RL. The installation looks fairly straight forward but I am wondering where in the RV to place the unit. From the power pedestal my power cord connects at the rear (drivers side) of the RV, my on board battery is located in the right side front compartment and the power converter is in the middle of the RV.
Has anyone installed a hardwired surge protector in an Alpine 5er and where did you locate the unit? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Gary
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1st Chev Diesel (Retired)
2019 GMC 3500HD SRW Denali Diesel 4x4,CC, SB, Bak Roll-X, box liner, 21K Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch
2015 Alpine 3101RL
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01-28-2017, 09:07 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sequim
Posts: 261
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I have a Montana 3720. I mounted mine just before the breaker panel. Where the main power comes in to 50 amp breaker.
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2016 Montana 3720RL
2015 Chevy Silverado 3500 HD Duromax :
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2012 Montana High Country 313RE
2012 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duromax
2010 Palimino Bronco
2005 Chevy Silverado CC 1500
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01-28-2017, 11:54 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Many times it might be convenient to locate it next to or close to the transfer switch is you have shore power and a generator onboard. You want to hook it up so that it is downstream of both of those power sources, that way you have protection whether you are on shore power of generator power. I'm not familiar with your particular RV, so I don't know if you have an onboard genny or not. My Toy Hauler has the transfer switch located in the forward basement/cargo bay and putting a surge protector there would be very simple and there is more than enough room.
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2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
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Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
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01-28-2017, 12:22 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 422
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I also have a Montana and mounted mine in the space behind the breaker panel which is accessible once you pull the panel. I then mounted the remote readout near the entrance door so that I can check the readouts without getting in the RV.
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01-29-2017, 09:03 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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Typically they are mounted behind the breaker panel as already stated. There is usually an access panel somewhere near the breaker panel. In my Alpine there is a removable cabinet panel, but my breaker is mounted in the kitchen peninsula. It is a fairly basic task, the most difficult part is room to work. The main reason for mounting in that location, is because you simply remove the main power line where it goes into the panel and install the surge protector between them.
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Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
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01-29-2017, 12:34 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,910
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Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
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01-29-2017, 01:33 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Looks very nice. I'm probably going to get one eventually, just as a matter of convenience, instead of using my Fluke meter to check readings before I hook up.
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2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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01-29-2017, 06:51 PM
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#8
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,732
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In order to minimize/eliminate cutting and reconnecting shore power cable(s), one should look for an existing termination point. Some rigs have a junction box just inside the wall where the shore power cable enters the rig. Replace the junction box with the hardwired Surge protection unit. In the event the shore power cable goes directly to the Power distribution panel, disconnect it and install the surge unit there as described in a previous post. Obviously either way you will need space for the unit, working space is another issue
Whole different story if you have a built in generator/transfer switch and want to protect yourself from both power sources. I had considered the various options when I installed a surge protection unit in my RAPTOR.
XRATED in a previous post stated what seemed to be a logically solution, which was to place the unit downstream of both of those power sources, that way you would have protection whether you were on shore power of generator power. I had also considered this setup until I realized that this configuration leaves your transfer switch unprotected.
The only way I could figure out how to protect the rig from both power sources was to install a new transfer switch with integrated surge protection and a remote monitor. I have a post out there that describes this transfer switch exchange and pictures including the remote monitor in the rig.
For those of you that say why do I need to protect myself from my own generator, well one day I started the generator. What no power after the standard delay period, checked the remote monitor "140 Volts". Transfer switch did not throw and apply this power level to the rig. (Rig protected). Shut down generator and started up again, voltages normal and transfer switch threw and power applied to rig. We can all guess what would have happened had that power level been applied to the rig.
Called ONAN who stated "that should not happen" and of course said bring it into an authorized service Center. Not going the drag rig into shop $$$$$$ when I can not duplicate the problem.
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2013 RAPTOR 300MP w/Rear Patio Deck NO Folding Side Ladder
2013 Silverado 3500HD LTZ CC LB 4X4 DRW
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01-30-2017, 05:51 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
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I mounted mine behind the breaker panel in my Alpine 3401RS.
Pretty easy job.
I have a friend that had just their electrical fried in a new Cardinal by a power surge in a small RV park. They did not have any protection.
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2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission
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01-30-2017, 06:11 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kelowna, Canada
Posts: 54
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Thank you to all who replied to my question. Great ideas!
Ddubya, I think your layout is most similar to my 3101RL. I presume that your breaker panel is in the bottom of the kitchen cupboard to the right of the pantry toward the main exit/entry door. How did you access behind the breaker panel? Did you do this through the basement by removing the wall panels in there or is there another way in?
Gary
__________________
1st Chev Diesel (Retired)
2019 GMC 3500HD SRW Denali Diesel 4x4,CC, SB, Bak Roll-X, box liner, 21K Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch
2015 Alpine 3101RL
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01-30-2017, 08:35 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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PaRaptor wrote:
Quote:
XRATED in a previous post stated what seemed to be a logically solution, which was to place the unit downstream of both of those power sources, that way you would have protection whether you were on shore power of generator power. I had also considered this setup until I realized that this configuration leaves your transfer switch unprotected.
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Just to be clear, the transfer switch doesn't necessarily need to be protected, it's what is downstream of the transfer switch......the breaker panel that needs protection. As I stated, if the surge supressor is wired in on the load side of the transfer switch (if you have shore power AND a generator) you will be protecting your breaker panel and everything it feeds.
If you have a transfer switch (because you have shore power AND generator power) the only way to protect the transfer switch incoming power from both sources is to have TWO surge supressors....one of them between the generator output and one of the inputs to the transfer switch, and the other one between the shore power AND the other input to the transfer switch
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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01-30-2017, 05:05 PM
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#12
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,732
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I
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated
PaRaptor wrote:
Just to be clear, the transfer switch doesn't necessarily need to be protected, it's what is downstream of the transfer switch......the breaker panel. As I stated, if the surge supressor is wired in on the load side of the transfer switch (if you have sore power AND a generator) you will be protecting your breaker panel and everything it feeds.
If you have a transfer switch (because you have shore power AND generator power) the only way to protect the transfer switch incoming power from both sources is to have TWO surge supressors....one of them between the generator output and the transfer switch, and the other one between the shore power AND the transfer switch
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I guess you can look at it that way ie , it is also not necessary to protect any of the contents of the entire rig. My goal was to protect the entire rig not merely part of it as your solution would do. The transfer switch is not merely a switch; it contains electronics which can be damaged just as well as other devices in the rig. So if you do not want to protect all devices in the rig you can leave the transfer switch unprotected and treat it was a replaceable fuse. As a matter of fact, you can only put surge protection on selected devices in the rig like some do in a stick house. Basically it comes down to what level of risk you are willing to take.
In regard to your only way comment, I do not personally think adding multiple surge protectors is a reasonable solution (economical or work scope) to provide partial protection to the entire rig. As I stated in the previous post there is a single transfer switch, which has integral surge protection, that will protect the entire rig having two power sources (Shore Power and built in Generator ).
It all comes down to how much do you want to protect.
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2013 RAPTOR 300MP w/Rear Patio Deck NO Folding Side Ladder
2013 Silverado 3500HD LTZ CC LB 4X4 DRW
Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel; Allison Trans
Reese 20K; Carlisle Radial Trail RH/HD; TPMS (12 Tires)
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01-30-2017, 06:49 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 507
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We have a SurgeGuard 44270 that plugs in at the power pedestal. We plug in and wait for green lights before connecting to the 5er. We do not have a built in generator. Do you think you are better protected with the hard wired units or is it mostly a matter of convenience?
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Steve & Diane
2015 Montana 3402RL
2017 F350 Super Duty Lariat 6.7 Powerstroke, Super Cab, Long Box, 4WD DRW
18K PullRite Super 5th ISR
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01-30-2017, 07:45 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,910
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That Surgeguard 44270 is only a surge arrestor which has indicators for several wiring conditions, but does not provide an automatic disconnect if a problem occurs after you are connected. Also, there is only a one year warranty, unlike the Progressive products, which are lifetime. The EMS type products from Progressive will turn off the power if anything hazardous happens to the incoming power to prevent damage to your RV, unlike the surge arrestor type products of any of the manufacturers.
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Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
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01-31-2017, 01:02 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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PARAPTOR Wrote:
Quote:
In regard to your only way comment, I do not personally think adding multiple surge protectors is a reasonable solution (economical or work scope) to providepartial protection to the entire rig. As I stated in the previous post there is a single transfer switch, which has integral surge protection, that will protect the entire rig having two power sources (Shore Power and built in Generator ).
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Can you please provide a link or info about a SINGLE surge supressor that provides protection to the entire rig when there is a transfer switch being used because of two power sources.........shore power AND generator power?
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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01-31-2017, 05:36 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
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I just pulled the breaker panel out to gain access. There was enough slack in the wiring to get it out to work on it.
I was able to mount the Progressive unit on the floor behind the breaker panel.
I also mounted the display panel under the breaker panel on the flat wood surface.
Just get flexible wire to go from the Progressive unit to the breaker panel and you should have no problem.
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2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission
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01-31-2017, 08:34 AM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kelowna, Canada
Posts: 54
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I have seen how some folks wire in the Progressive surge protectors (bobecky for one) On another site I saw a picture of wiring with plug ends.
As there is a disconnect switch in the EMS-HW50C unit to allow power to the RV if the EMS fails (granted unprotected) then plug ends would serve no purpose.
Plug ends would make it easier to move the EMS unit to another RV.
What other advantages is there to wiring the EMS with plug ends?
Thanks. Gary
__________________
1st Chev Diesel (Retired)
2019 GMC 3500HD SRW Denali Diesel 4x4,CC, SB, Bak Roll-X, box liner, 21K Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch
2015 Alpine 3101RL
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01-31-2017, 08:53 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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In my opinion, if you need mobility, buy the plug in type. A hard wired system should be hard wired in. Any additional plugs and receptacles are potential sources of loose connections.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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01-31-2017, 01:01 PM
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#19
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,732
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Xrated , the surge protection is an integral part of the actual Transfer Switch, thereby protects the rig against both power sources (shore and generator). I suggest you do a search on the Forum to see older posts related to transfer switches and surge protection. Try a search say for an example on EMS,SURGE.
As I stated in a previous post my initial investigation into surge protection for my Raptor was in older posts on the Forum, Assuming I did things correctly here is the link to one of my posts.
http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ht=ems%2Csurge
The remote monitor is really nice option when something strange happens Other related posts will be found by doing the above referenced Forum Search, If you are not familiar with Transfer Switches and why they need to be protected a Google Search will provide additional information on the topic. If I recall installed my new surge protection transfer switch in 2014. Other than that one issue where it protected my rig from my own generator, I have had no issues and would do it again. Installation rather simple, due to difference in transfer switch sizes will need to move cables around.
Keep in mind new technology comes out each year, if interested in surge protection I would look at other products that may now be available. I definitely would not connect my rig to these camp site pedestals without some form of protection.
Seen your comment about minimum connections, which is a good point. However these surge protection devices can fail and since it sits between your rig and the power source would be nice if you could bypass it if failed. Some units have a bypass built in, thought progressive has one? If not connectors on both ends would really be useful in an emergency.
Hope this helps
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2013 RAPTOR 300MP w/Rear Patio Deck NO Folding Side Ladder
2013 Silverado 3500HD LTZ CC LB 4X4 DRW
Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel; Allison Trans
Reese 20K; Carlisle Radial Trail RH/HD; TPMS (12 Tires)
Veteran
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01-31-2017, 03:51 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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PARAPTOR.....I would like to know which one(s) have built in surge protection for both inputs.....I'm not seeing it.....neither the Surge Guard brand or the Progressive brand will protect the incoming line to the surge supressor or the transfer switch. The suppression is on the load side of both of those units.....which takes you right back to what I posted in some earlier posts in this thread.....about wiring in the surge supressor on the load side of the transfer switch.... i.e. before the input to the breaker panel.
And actually, after some research, the Progressive Surge protector that has been discussed in this thread, offers a higher level of surge protection than the Surge Guard transfer switch with built in surge protection (which is built into the load side of the switch)
Personally, I will be buying and putting a Progressive system in mine eventually, and it will be located between the load side of the transfer switch and the line going out to the breaker panel, as stated in the progressive instructions for applications that have both shore power and generator power.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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