Gray tank 1 and 2???

[Pathman]

So can anyone tell me which sinks or shower goes to gray tank number one and what goes to gray tank number two?
Can’t find it in manual, but I have two gray tank level indicators on my in-command, and two gray tank handles, one in the panel and one underneath the rig.

[vampress_me]

They aren’t always plumbed the same, even from same model camper to camper. So, the best way to figure out what is plumbed to what grey tank is to start out with completely empty grey tanks. Turn on the shower for a few minutes, turn off, and then open grey 1 - see if any water comes out. If it does, great, you know it’s plumbed to grey 1. If none does, it *should* tell you that the shower is plumbed to grey 2. Open grey 2 to make sure since I have heard of some showers being plumbed to the black tank accidentally. Then, repeat with each sink individually (you may want to leave the sink turned on longer sink obviously they don’t put out the amount of water in a short time frame the shower does) to see where they are plumbed to. And, then take the extra the step I should have - write it down. Luckily my hubby remembered when I had forgotten. LOL

[sourdough]

Here's a link to your trailer;

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/29RLI

Note that the bathroom is going to be in the proximity of your convenience center. The black handle and the gray next to it will be for the bathroom. The one under the trailer (note location of galley) will be to drain the kitchen.

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

They aren’t always plumbed the same, even from same model camper to camper. So, the best way to figure out what is plumbed to what grey tank is to start out with completely empty grey tanks. Turn on the shower for a few minutes, turn off, and then open grey 1 - see if any water comes out. If it does, great, you know it’s plumbed to grey 1. If none does, it *should* tell you that the shower is plumbed to grey 2. Open grey 2 to make sure since I have heard of some showers being plumbed to the black tank accidentally. Then, repeat with each sink individually (you may want to leave the sink turned on longer sink obviously they don’t put out the amount of water in a short time frame the shower does) to see where they are plumbed to. And, then take the extra the step I should have - write it down. Luckily my hubby remembered when I had forgotten. LOL

Haha! Thanks for the tip. That may be the only way to determine which is which and yes, I’ll write it down for sure!

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Here's a link to your trailer;

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/29RLI

Note that the bathroom is going to be in the proximity of your convenience center. The black handle and the gray next to it will be for the bathroom. The one under the trailer (note location of galley) will be to drain the kitchen.

Thanks for the link, but I looked through there already and it doesn’t specify which tank, 1 or 2, does what. It doesn’t even say there are two different tanks, just says 60 gal gray tank, but there are two tanks so that’s a bit confusing to say the least.
I know the locations of the handle valves, but the proximity to the kitchen or bathroom still doesn’t tell me which is number one or two, hoping someone has already hashed this out so I won’t have to!😁

[sourdough]

Just assume they are as I mentioned and run the water... Keystone didn't run the drain lines crossing each other to get to a drain handle for some inexplicable reason and the tanks will be in the proximity of the shower/bath sink and galley sink.

On your tanks; your black tank is 30gal. per the spec sheet. The 60gal. quoted for gray is 2 30gal. tanks like the black tank.

[RollaMo]

Looking at your floor plan, I would assume your tanks are just like the ones in our 24RDS

Gray Tank 1 = Bathroom sink and shower
Gray Tank 2 = Kitchen sink

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Just assume they are as I mentioned and run the water... Keystone didn't run the drain lines crossing each other to get to a drain handle for some inexplicable reason and the tanks will be in the proximity of the shower/bath sink and galley sink.

On your tanks; your black tank is 30gal. per the spec sheet. The 60gal. quoted for gray is 2 30gal. tanks like the black tank.

Thanks for the info. I guess I’ll have to do the whole “run the water test with tanks empty” thing. Would have been nice and easy for them to just tell you which tank is #1 and which is #2 though.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Thanks for the info. I guess I’ll have to do the whole “run the water test with tanks empty” thing. Would have been nice and easy for them to just tell you which tank is #1 and which is #2 though.

Unless things have changed in the past year or so, Keystone numbers EVERYTHING in their trailer floorplans starting in the upper right corner of the floorplan, moving counterclockwise from there.

Whether it's doors, beds, windows, tanks, slides, etc, everything starts numbering in the upper right corner and follows that clockwise pattern.

So, in your trailer, starting at the upper right, the #1 gray tank would be the bathroom tank, then moving counterclockwise, the #2 gray tank would be the galley tank.

Following that same "numbering rule" the #1 slide is the wardrobe slide, #2 slide is the kitchen slide and #3 slide is the dinette slide.

The #1 window would be behind the range (in the slide), #2 window would be the roadside corner to the right of the sofa (looking at the sofa) and go from there.

While that "rule is not published for consumer use" it is (or at least was) the way Keystone and the dealerships "talk about the same component when they correspond....

I'd note that the same "general rule for identifying locations" is used in the manufactured housing market, in motorhomes and, many S&B house plans use the same process to identify locations on the floorplan.

I know, more "useless information" (at least, until you need it).....

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Unless things have changed in the past year or so, Keystone numbers EVERYTHING in their trailer floorplans starting in the upper right corner of the floorplan, moving counterclockwise from there.

Whether it's doors, beds, windows, tanks, slides, etc, everything starts numbering in the upper right corner and follows that clockwise pattern.

So, in your trailer, starting at the upper right, the #1 gray tank would be the bathroom tank, then moving counterclockwise, the #2 gray tank would be the galley tank.

Following that same "numbering rule" the #1 slide is the wardrobe slide, #2 slide is the kitchen slide and #3 slide is the dinette slide.

The #1 window would be behind the range (in the slide), #2 window would be the roadside corner to the right of the sofa (looking at the sofa) and go from there.

While that "rule is not published for consumer use" it is (or at least was) the way Keystone and the dealerships "talk about the same component when they correspond....

I'd note that the same "general rule for identifying locations" is used in the manufactured housing market, in motorhomes and, many S&B house plans use the same process to identify locations on the floorplan.

I know, more "useless information" (at least, until you need it).....

Hey that’s cool info, only thing I’ll have to verify somehow that it corresponds to my tanks, so I’m kinda back to square one!😂

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Hey that’s cool info, only thing I’ll have to verify somehow that it corresponds to my tanks, so I’m kinda back to square one!��

Not really, just close all the tank valves, turn the water on in the shower, fill that tank (#1) half full, go to the tank monitor system and see if the #1 lights how half full. If so, you'll know which tank is which.

As for "wish they would have told me that when I picked up the trailer"... If you think about the ENORMOUS amount of info they crammed in that half hour of introduction walk around, they barely had enough time to show you where the propane tanks were located, where the convenience center is located, how to connect the shore power cord and how to operate the water heater. I'd make an educated guess that nobody showed you how to light the oven pilot during that "all inclusive demonstration" much less how to put batteries in the TV remote..... You can only cram so much information into a 30 minute walk around and the dealer likely won't extend it to 45 minutes if it means hiring another person to take up the slack......

It is what it is .....

[Jonahex2099]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

Looking at your floor plan, I would assume your tanks are just like the ones in our 24RDS

Gray Tank 1 = Bathroom sink and shower
Gray Tank 2 = Kitchen sink

This. Same with our 2704RKwe.

Or…drain both tanks, start filling one and see which meter shows movement?

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Not really, just close all the tank valves, turn the water on in the shower, fill that tank (#1) half full, go to the tank monitor system and see if the #1 lights how half full. If so, you'll know which tank is which.

As for "wish they would have told me that when I picked up the trailer"... If you think about the ENORMOUS amount of info they crammed in that half hour of introduction walk around, they barely had enough time to show you where the propane tanks were located, where the convenience center is located, how to connect the shore power cord and how to operate the water heater. I'd make an educated guess that nobody showed you how to light the oven pilot during that "all inclusive demonstration" much less how to put batteries in the TV remote..... You can only cram so much information into a 30 minute walk around and the dealer likely won't extend it to 45 minutes if it means hiring another person to take up the slack......

It is what it is .....

Yes it is, but I meant “tell me” within the owners manual or somewhere.

Thanks.

[RollaMo]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Yes it is, but I meant “tell me” within the owners manual or somewhere.

Thanks.

They can't do that in the owners manual, because they are "generic manuals". They don't actually go into specifics.
They do not issue different manuals for different floor plans.

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

They can't do that in the owners manual, because they are "generic manuals". They don't actually go into specifics.
They do not issue different manuals for different floor plans.

Well, don’t want to stir up a nest here, and this isn’t directed at you, but “can’t” is relative to how they want to treat their customer base. It’s not like we are all buying a $35 toaster that might be cost prohibitive to print specific manuals for every one (which I think they actually do anyway, but you get my point), we’re spending $70-150 thousand dollars on these rigs and you’re saying they can’t print you a model specific manual? I call BS on that one.

[RollaMo]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Well, don’t want to stir up a nest here, and this isn’t directed at you, but “can’t” is relative to how they want to treat their customer base. It’s not like we are all buying a $35 toaster that might be cost prohibitive to print specific manuals for every one (which I think they actually do anyway, but you get my point), we’re spending $70-150 thousand dollars on these rigs and you’re saying they can’t print you a model specific manual? I call BS on that one.

Well, no offense taken on my part.
Just trying to help you understand how RV manufacturers operate.

You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word "can't".
The fact is they "Won't".

And just so you know, this isn't just a Keystone thing.
They are all the same.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Well, don’t want to stir up a nest here, and this isn’t directed at you, but “can’t” is relative to how they want to treat their customer base. It’s not like we are all buying a $35 toaster that might be cost prohibitive to print specific manuals for every one (which I think they actually do anyway, but you get my point), we’re spending $70-150 thousand dollars on these rigs and you’re saying they can’t print you a model specific manual? I call BS on that one.

Fact is they haven't in the past and likely will not in the future.

I haven't heard anything thorough the grapevine that Keystone is considering a change in Owner's Manual production. You may not realize it, but a MAJOR part of the automobile manufacturing process is the cost of "technical writer departments" to write, proof, update and maintain the accuracy of their Owner's Manuals". Ford alone, spends 10's of millions annually to keep their Owner's Manuals current.

That is a major hit on the annual profit to the investors. Keystone has not ever produced a "model specific owner's manual" and they have grown to be the largest towable RV manufacturer in the world. They didn't manage that feat by reducing profits for their investors, they did it by keeping costs down and provits high so the investors make money and the company has funds to grow and invest in more capacity so they can make greater profits.

Today's RV market is a "seller's market" and all the manufacturers are selling everything they can push out the door as fast as they can build it. If a customer "refuses a sale" there are 10 people in line with cash in hand to buy what they refused, so there's NO MOTIVATION for Keystone or any other RV manufacturer to "spend profits on unnecessary expenses like model specific owner's manuals....

That said, Airstream (starting at 50Kfor a basecamp and going up to over 250K for a 32' Classic travel trailer, does provide "model specific owner's manuals", Well, actually, it's all the same manual for all models in a series. They just include diagrams for plumbing runs, schematics for electrical systems and some "limited blueprints for chassis component locations".... Essentially, you can expect that an Airstream will cost 2.5 to 3 times more than a comparable Keystone. And, every Airstream dealership has a service department because they break just as easily as your Cougar.

It's not whether it would be nice to have that kind of owner's manual, it's whether Keystone sees any need to spend that kind of money. So far in their existence, they have not felt the need. I wouldn't expect that to change based on this discussion or based on a heated email or phone call to the CS department. They are paid to listen to you, be nice, make no promises, follow a written script to respond to valid complaints, up-channel those that meet company criteria and then answer the next call.....

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

Well, no offense taken on my part.
Just trying to help you understand how RV manufacturers operate.

You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word "can't".
The fact is they "Won't".

And just so you know, this isn't just a Keystone thing.
They are all the same.

Copy that.

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Fact is they haven't in the past and likely will not in the future.

I haven't heard anything thorough the grapevine that Keystone is considering a change in Owner's Manual production. You may not realize it, but a MAJOR part of the automobile manufacturing process is the cost of "technical writer departments" to write, proof, update and maintain the accuracy of their Owner's Manuals". Ford alone, spends 10's of millions annually to keep their Owner's Manuals current.

That is a major hit on the annual profit to the investors. Keystone has not ever produced a "model specific owner's manual" and they have grown to be the largest towable RV manufacturer in the world. They didn't manage that feat by reducing profits for their investors, they did it by keeping costs down and provits high so the investors make money and the company has funds to grow and invest in more capacity so they can make greater profits.

Today's RV market is a "seller's market" and all the manufacturers are selling everything they can push out the door as fast as they can build it. If a customer "refuses a sale" there are 10 people in line with cash in hand to buy what they refused, so there's NO MOTIVATION for Keystone or any other RV manufacturer to "spend profits on unnecessary expenses like model specific owner's manuals....

That said, Airstream (starting at 50Kfor a basecamp and going up to over 250K for a 32' Classic travel trailer, does provide "model specific owner's manuals", Well, actually, it's all the same manual for all models in a series. They just include diagrams for plumbing runs, schematics for electrical systems and some "limited blueprints for chassis component locations".... Essentially, you can expect that an Airstream will cost 2.5 to 3 times more than a comparable Keystone. And, every Airstream dealership has a service department because they break just as easily as your Cougar.

It's not whether it would be nice to have that kind of owner's manual, it's whether Keystone sees any need to spend that kind of money. So far in their existence, they have not felt the need. I wouldn't expect that to change based on this discussion or based on a heated email or phone call to the CS department. They are paid to listen to you, be nice, make no promises, follow a written script to respond to valid complaints, up-channel those that meet company criteria and then answer the next call.....

I guess I can sum up your extensive explanation in a few words, they don’t give a crap!😂

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Pathman

I guess I can sum up your extensive explanation in a few words, they don’t give a crap!��

Way back in my Viet Nam days, we had a saying:

Hold out both your hands, wish in one and "defecate in the other"... See which one fills first.

Wishing Keystone would so something is very much like that.....

You won't make a difference to Keystone and if you try, you'll just get a "full hand"