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Old 08-12-2017, 01:04 PM   #1
sportingrh
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Warranty work

Why does it take so long to get warranty work done on a new keystone sold by CW. I can't use my fifth wheel because of leaking toilet, and awning that is separating from side of rv. Much does it cost for a ball valve and some screws.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #2
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RV's are selling like hot cakes. This up tick in sales has left a gaping hole in the "servicing" model at most dealers. Dealer's profits are heavily vested in units sold, not units repaired. And with the shear number of coaches being sold every day, we find ourselves at the mercy of a dealer's service schedule. Not uncommon to hear "drop it off and we'll get to it when we can". Better get ready to cancel some of your summer camping trips!
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:34 PM   #3
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Or do it yourself. Another option is a mobile service.

The reality is that warranty work is too disruptive for most of us and our short camping season so we just pay for parts and do it ourselves.


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Old 08-12-2017, 03:45 PM   #4
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Slow just touched on one concept that isn't often considered when it comes to the seasonal use of RV's. In most areas of the country, winter is the "dead season" for RV dealers. They have to pay staff or lay them off when there's no work. So many dealerships work with "minimally adequate staff" rather than hire people and lay them off after the rush. It works to their benefit by being less expensive and it works to our benefit (even if it doesn't seem like it when we're waiting for an appointment) by not having "unqualified or untrained seasonal workers" doing maintenance on our RV.

Think about the "quality of staff" that would likely be available to work 4 or 5 months of the year and be unemployed the rest of the time. That's a tough way to provide for a family so most people who "have their stuff together" would move right on by that kind of opportunity and find employment some other place. What's left in the "worker pool" may well not be the caliber employee we'd want inside our trailer tearing out walls or searching for an elusive water leak......

It's not an easy job to run a "feast or famine" kind of business. In most places north of the "Mason Dixson Line" RV dealerships face challenges we don't often think about when we're looking for someone to hurry up a job because it's summer and we have things to do......
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:21 PM   #5
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Why does it take so long to get warranty work done on a new keystone sold by CW. I can't use my fifth wheel because of leaking toilet, and awning that is separating from side of rv. Much does it cost for a ball valve and some screws.
According to RV Business, CW's 2Q sale were up 20% to $1.3 billion! http://www.rvbusiness.com/2017/08/ca...to-1-3-billion
"In comparing second quarter results compared with the comparable period in 2016, new vehicle units sold increased 38.2% to 21,930 and the average selling price of a new vehicle decreased 4.5% to $34,787."
Nearly 22,000 new units sold in just 3 months!! "The company operated a total of 137 retail locations" during this period. Simple math, each store averaged 160 units for the quarter. We all know too well what the usual warranty issues are with new RV's. I would guess the majority of these 160 units went in for some kind of warranty work after the sale. How many service bays does the average CW have?? How long does the average repair actually take once the approvals are received? It's a pretty good bet CW is indicative of most dealers in terms of sales numbers and warranty work. With numbers like these it's a wonder that any service can be scheduled with any idea of a reasonable timeline.
We are starting to look at mobile RV repair sources as well as third party repair shops.
Huge sales numbers are great for the industry but not so great for us owners
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #6
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According to RV Business, CW's 2Q sale were up 20% to $1.3 billion! http://www.rvbusiness.com/2017/08/ca...to-1-3-billion
"In comparing second quarter results compared with the comparable period in 2016, new vehicle units sold increased 38.2% to 21,930 and the average selling price of a new vehicle decreased 4.5% to $34,787."
Nearly 22,000 new units sold in just 3 months!! "The company operated a total of 137 retail locations" during this period. Simple math, each store averaged 160 units for the quarter. We all know too well what the usual warranty issues are with new RV's. I would guess the majority of these 160 units went in for some kind of warranty work after the sale. How many service bays does the average CW have?? How long does the average repair actually take once the approvals are received? It's a pretty good bet CW is indicative of most dealers in terms of sales numbers and warranty work. With numbers like these it's a wonder that any service can be scheduled with any idea of a reasonable timeline.
We are starting to look at mobile RV repair sources as well as third party repair shops.
Huge sales numbers are great for the industry but not so great for us owners
I feel they would be far better off to match there sales and service departments to there sales projections. Maybe consider subletting work out. Better yet inform customer of potential problems with the way service works, oh yeah have the units ckd and ready. 7 out of 9 of my problems were minor.



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Old 08-12-2017, 05:15 PM   #7
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I feel they would be far better off to match there sales and service departments to there sales projections. Maybe consider subletting work out. Better yet inform customer of potential problems with the way service works, oh yeah have the units ckd and ready. 7 out of 9 of my problems were minor.



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So hire a bunch of techs based on sales projections..and when sales don't match, what do you do with the techs you hired?

Some dealerships will PDI every unit when it reaches the dealership, deal with warranty items and then put it on the sales line. When it sells a "quick check" is done, pretty much just a leakdown test on the LP system. And the buyer can take his new unit home that day. If customers have been in/out of the unit while on the line who knows what they have played with or broken. New customer is stuck trying to deal with repairs. There are 2 dealers near me that won't even do warranty work after the sale.

Some dealerships ( the one I work at) don't perform a PDI until the unit is sold, and deal with warranty items before delivery. Even so, some times things still break and the customer has to deal with scheduling a repair. Which is better?

On to the topic of QUALIFIED techs: RV's are becoming more and more complex, and dealerships can negotiate warranty labor rates based on documented training. Training costs are not something many dealerships spend money on. RVIA will "certify" much like ASE for the auto industry, but I know from personal knowledge that the dealership has to pay for the 4hour on-line test and it ain't cheap. Fail and your money is gone, no refund. I am a "registered" tech because I finished the first part and past like 8 tests in different areas. I'm not "certified" because they don't want to pay me for 4 hrs. And the test fee.

What's the answer? I have no idea, I just keep on keeping on...
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:00 PM   #8
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Consider the problems Chuckster57 just mentioned, then try to find someone willing to work under those conditions from May through October and then not have a job from November until May of the following year. The "quality of the people" you'd get that are willing to work under those conditions, working for 6 months and drawing unemployment for 6 months is typically not the kind of employee who is "career minded" or the kind of employee you'd want to trust to repair your "major investment".

Sure, there's supposed to be supervision for the workers, and there's training and there's guidelines, but...... No supervisor can be "everywhere all the time" and honestly, no RV dealership should hire that kind of person anyway.

There's a lot of "well they ought to ..." that's being tossed around in this thread, but how long do you think any RV dealership would remain in business if they spent all their profits on paying unemployment insurance for season workers, building multimillion dollar service facilities that sit empty and not used from November through May? The bottom line in the RV business is making a decent living for every one of the employees just like the bottom line in the business you work for is making you a decent living and making the boss enough money to keep the doors open. If the RV dealership can't turn a profit, you won't be buying anything from them, they won't exist.

Can they do better? Yes, in some areas, no in others. One of the "things" I'd suggest any potential RV buyer consider is the limitations of almost any RV dealership. Don't expect that you're their only customer and don't expect that your "Hideout" is their biggest priority over the million dollar motorhome they are trying to sell to a "picky negotiator".....

As for comparing to an automobile sales/service facility, well they are night and day different from any RV dealership, so different that many of them won't even work on the chassis for Class C and Class A motorhomes. The Ford dealership here just changed hands, but the previous ownership refused to do anything, even oil changes on Ford Class A motorhome chassis and they would not do any service work on Class C chassis except for oil changes and only then, for those that would fit through the service bay door over the oil pit. The door is 12' high, so most were excluded. So much for "It's a Ford, any Ford dealer will service it..... Not happening.....
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:52 PM   #9
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Maybe one answer is to make sure as many problem that can be fixed before units sold, also make sure all customers are aware of how th the warranty process works, I wasn't. Just hurry sale then let the buyer deal with it. Looks like customer satisfaction or lack of determines future sales.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:11 PM   #10
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Maybe one answer is to make sure as many problem that can be fixed before units sold, also make sure all customers are aware of how th the warranty process works, I wasn't. Just hurry sale then let the buyer deal with it. Looks like customer satisfaction or lack of determines future sales.
I'd like to see if a scheduling/reservation system could be implemented. If the repairs weren't urgent you could schedule a date to bring the unit in and know the tech would be on the job the following day with repairs being completed and the unit back with the owner in a timely manner.
One of the big issues is waiting for the dealer to evaluate the repairs, refer their findings to the manufacturer and wait for approval. Then parts are ordered. Then shipped. Then received. Then the actual work scheduled. This process takes a couple of weeks at best and now you're in line for the next available agent/tech
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:36 PM   #11
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We regularly have customers make an appointment for us to document the issue, and they take it and use it while we get the repair approved and parts ordered. Once parts are in we call customer and schedule a drop off. It works well for us as we have very limited service storage.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:39 PM   #12
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We've had this conversation.....extensively. Those that are "up in arms" are usually the folks that have zero idea how the dance plays between owner, dealer and manufacturer with over the wall expectations. Once you understand it, and accept it, which you must, then things aren't so bad . You HAVE to learn how to do the "dance", if not you are destined to be constantly upset.

So many of you buy things far away, from folks you don't know, get the best deal etc. etc. I've read so many posts of folks that bought an RV "over there" and then had problems. Then they find out how the dance works; a Keystone "dealer" has zero obligations to take care of your trailer under warranty since you bought it 5 hours away to save a grand. Whoops! Here you go....the dance.

I buy my RVs at CW. I get good deals. I make sure I am well known to the GM, service manager, sales manager and techs. I don't wait for "weeks or months" for service. I call them, tell them what I need and we set a date based on my needs (I am very aware of their situation as well). When I had a blowout causing damage and stopping a trip, they said to bring it in NOW and we'll have it out in a couple of days (extensive damage). I couldn't get there that quick so they set it for the next day (I was 4 hours out). When I request a mod that I can't do, we discuss it, research it and when they advise it will be $2-3k, I tell them to do it.....just make sure it's right and what I want. You just have to do "the dance". They won't break their back if the only thing you want is free gratis work.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:55 PM   #13
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We've had this conversation.....extensively. Those that are "up in arms" are usually the folks that have zero idea how the dance plays between owner, dealer and manufacturer with over the wall expectations. Once you understand it, and accept it, which you must, then things aren't so bad . You HAVE to learn how to do the "dance", if not you are destined to be constantly upset.

So many of you buy things far away, from folks you don't know, get the best deal etc. etc. I've read so many posts of folks that bought an RV "over there" and then had problems. Then they find out how the dance works; a Keystone "dealer" has zero obligations to take care of your trailer under warranty since you bought it 5 hours away to save a grand. Whoops! Here you go....the dance.

I buy my RVs at CW. I get good deals. I make sure I am well known to the GM, service manager, sales manager and techs. I don't wait for "weeks or months" for service. I call them, tell them what I need and we set a date based on my needs (I am very aware of their situation as well). When I had a blowout causing damage and stopping a trip, they said to bring it in NOW and we'll have it out in a couple of days (extensive damage). I couldn't get there that quick so they set it for the next day (I was 4 hours out). When I request a mod that I can't do, we discuss it, research it and when they advise it will be $2-3k, I tell them to do it.....just make sure it's right and what I want. You just have to do "the dance". They won't break their back if the only thing you want is free gratis work.
That's great if you know the drill, I didn't my dealer thought inportant to get sold, I should have done my homework better that's on me.But I can't even use my camper. Right now it wouldn't even make a good yard ornament.

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Old 08-14-2017, 07:03 AM   #14
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Makes sense...my issue is that in late 2015 I bought my RV in the state I was living in and because of work I've lived in 3 other states in the last year. This is my first RV and live in it full time. It was a rude awakening when I dropped it off and was told it would take a week to take pics and send to get approval for the warranty work and who knows how long to get a response. It's not like dropping off my truck and getting a rental. I was dropping off my home! I went back and picked it up real fast.


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Old 08-14-2017, 09:13 AM   #15
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We regularly have customers make an appointment for us to document the issue, and they take it and use it while we get the repair approved and parts ordered. Once parts are in we call customer and schedule a drop off. It works well for us as we have very limited service storage.
Fantastic! I'm going to use your procedure as an example to the CW we use.
This would be a huge improvement. Only problem is the CW has way too big a service parking/holding area
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:04 AM   #16
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Fantastic! I'm going to use your procedure as an example to the CW we use.
This would be a huge improvement. Only problem is the CW has way too big a service parking/holding area
Just call them and see what you can work out. My CW is PACKED with RVs waiting for service and it's pretty daunting just trying to pull in to get the trailer in line. Good thing is all you do is drop it on the jack and they maneuver it around the lot. If you drop it off with them BE SURE to look your trailer over thoroughly with a service advisor when you drop it off (they carry a little sheet to document any damage) and then when you pick it up. I had the misfortune of one of their "transporter" guys running something down the side of my trailer way too close and tore off the fridge vent and bent the awning arms - all replaced by CW - but, it can happen because they try to pack the units in like sardines.

When I need repairs, but need my trailer, I call and make an appt. for them to get it in and see what needs to be done. I have to leave it for a day or so for them to check it out and then they release it back to me until they are ready with parts etc. so I can use it. Then I take it back for the repairs - which could take several days depending. The bad thing about this scenario is that it requires two round trips to the dealer with the trailer. My dealer is 60 miles away so it's no big deal for others I'm sure it's not the same.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:09 AM   #17
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That's great if you know the drill, I didn't my dealer thought inportant to get sold, I should have done my homework better that's on me.But I can't even use my camper. Right now it wouldn't even make a good yard ornament.

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I feel for you. The RV world "dance" is unlike anything I've ever dealt with. My boats don't go through the same thing nor my vehicles. If a person is unaware of the ins and outs it is completely confusing....and aggravating. I'm afraid with the explosion in RV sales the situation is just going to get worse and worse.

You might try what Chuckster suggested. Give them a call and if it's just in a holding pattern see if you can come pick it up (obviously you can but you want to make sure they are on board with it). Hopefully they can at least look at it and get authorization/parts ordered and let you go on your way for a while. Good luck!
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:11 AM   #18
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My dealer is 50 miles and I thought that was too far. The more I read the more I'm thinking we're not doing too bad.
Yes, we did a complete walk around when we dropped it off. The service manager also took photos of all 4 sides as well. Good protection for both parties.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:23 AM   #19
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My dealer is 50 miles and I thought that was too far. The more I read the more I'm thinking we're not doing too bad.
Yes, we did a complete walk around when we dropped it off. The service manager also took photos of all 4 sides as well. Good protection for both parties.

Yeah, I think the mileage thing is different to different folks. I like to drive and like to tow so 60 miles is a walk in the park. We're in the middle of nowhere so I drive to do most anything; plus we travel all the time so to me it's normal. If you're just 50 miles away, and in Utah, it doesn't sound so bad Just got to get in the right mind set......(wait, wait, wait....)
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:30 AM   #20
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Well cw called said our camper was ready. Got to dealer went thru our list, I very impressed all the work they did looked great, we were very pleased talked Eric, and tech Tim about repairs very polite and helpful. Got unit home pulled a.c. vent and found open past front bedroom vent, going to seal off dead space maybe not have to put in second ac.
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