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Old 09-09-2018, 11:21 AM   #161
Javi
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
No one in the tire industry or even the governing body has a grip on tire aging. Some even ponder the "don't use after 10 year mark".

IMO the best ballpark figures will come from the manufacturer of the tires you're using. Each seem to have different variations.

In my research I found that Carlisle Tire, way back when, were the sort of spokesperson for the ST tire design. Others were soon to follow and the 3-5 year useage became a sort of standard for those tires.
I understand that.. again, I was rebutting your buddy's claim that LT tires last longer than 10 years when used in RV trailer fitments...

Personally, I'm not going to use my ST tires past 2 years and the LT tires longevity past 3 or 4 years is moot to me for my application, because I wear the tread to minimum before that..

I did enjoy the way he melded the two different test results to provide backup to his contention that LT tires should replace ST tires regardless of rule/law or policy... it was inventive..
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:49 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Javi View Post
So far I have not seen irrefutable evidence to support the assertion that I break the law/rules or policies in the tire industry by mounting tires which have less load capacity than the O.E.M. fitment... [/COLOR]


I'm waiting...
I often write about that subject. Most will not take the time to do a complete research. Out of context info will become overbearing and vary misleading without a complete knowledge of how all the factors, when tired together, cause the entire tire industry to determining the vehicle manufacturer’s selection of the original equipment tires sets the minimum standard for your vehicle, car, truck or trailer.

NHTSA and the tire industry are in complete agreement that the following statement is the standard to be met when selecting replacement tires.

“Replacement tires must be the same size designation as the Original Equipment tires or others recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. They must provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provided at the vehicle manufacturer recommended cold inflation pressures.”

This may already be in this thread but I’ll post it again here. It’s a sample of how some of the major tire manufacturers say it.


Goodyear: Never fit tires to a vehicle that have less load carrying capacity than required by the Original Equipment Manufacturer.

Michelin: Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle.

Cooper: The new tires must have a load carrying capacity equal to or greater than the maximum load carrying capacity specified on the tire placard on the vehicle.

Toyo: Any replacement tire must be of a size and load range that will offer equal or higher load carrying capacity compared to the original equipment (OE) tire on the vehicle.
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Old 09-09-2018, 12:32 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Javi View Post
Give me an LT tire in a 235/85/16 that provides 3500 lbs. or more of documented load capacity at my wheel limit of 80 pounds and I'm all over it.. or for that matter find me a 16" x6 rime with a 6 on 5.5" pattern and I'm all over that too... I just don't want to spend several thousands of dollars to replace axles and equipment to do it.. I'd rather just wait and buy a trailer equipped with 7K axles...
In the evolution of tires it has become necessary to better describe the tires in use. Before the internet became saturated with tire information, people in the industry knew what a tire size was without complete instructions. About 5-7 years ago a more formal tire description was introduced. When reading newer information that includes tires size descriptions you will find them identified as "designated size". A tire's designated size is like these two examples. ST225/75R15 or LT235/85R16 are designated sizes. The prefix is part of that size designation thus, it includes a design. Those two designs have their load capacities described by the load range lettering system.

The size designation becomes a factor when complying with the replacement tire selection recommendations to use tires like the OE tires. A well trained tire installer is not going to replace a ST tire with a LT tire, even of the same physical size.
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:51 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
I should have elaborated. All the tires I buy for my trucks and cars are available with a road hazard warranty. But not ST tires or even LT's if you are installing them on an RV or trailer. I was told this at the Firestone store and at Walmart.
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:49 PM   #165
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I use to feel sorry for people forced into ST tires by the overt market of the product. HOWEVER with the effort Goodyear put into the new Endurance and it's record to date, maybe all is not lost. Ever I purchased a set to replace the china bombs that came on the new Laredo.

This does not however make up for all those that suffer damage, loss of use and cost associated with all the ST failures over so many years.

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Old 09-28-2018, 09:11 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post

Our 2005 Copper Canyon came with LT 235/85-16Es even though my GVWR is 12,360. Being a 2005 I don't have the yellow sticker, just the VIN weight statement inside a cabinet door near the sink, where it holds up a lot better!
I do have an email from Keystone with the build information that states LT 235/85-16s were installed at the factory.

Just saying.
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If you're referring to the vehicle certification label, I can assure you there was supposed to be one. The manufacturer’s certification label for trailers must be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle.

On our 2003 Everest it was located on the left side forward basement door.


It was a clear violation for Keystone to sell your trailer without the certification label. There is no provision to place it anywhere other than directed by NHTSA.


My research files are quite extensive. More information about vehicle certification and equipment certifications can be found in the following PDF.

I can't get the PDF file to a place to copy. You'll have to put this information in your search engine....REQUIREMENTS FOR MANUFACTURERS OF MOTOR VEHICLES AND MOTOR VEHICLE EQUIPMENT
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Old 10-01-2018, 09:29 PM   #167
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Just finished reading this entire thread. Lot of good information. I recently got the truck and trailer in my sig both new (2018 GMC 2500HD Denali Diesel and 2018 Hideout 28RKS). Haven't taken it out yet.

For my trailer, it has the following stats:
GVWR: 9660#
Hitch Weight (minimum?): 860#
Max Cargo Payload: 2650#

There are 2x 4400# Axles on it, which is why the hitch must be 860 to satisfy the regulatory stuff (2x4400+860=9660). I have not taken anything onto a scale yet to verify what the actual hitch weight is but I currently have a 1000# WDH on the truck (what Camping World provided with the trailer - think it is a rebranded Curt) and the truck can take up to a 1500# tongue weight (Class V hitch receiver).

The factory installed tires are ST225/75R15 LRD rated at 2540# each @ 65 PSI (which is also what is on the sticker). Combined that gives me 10160# on the tires but only 8800# on the axles. I believe the trailer was around 7000# empty so when I load it up my understanding is I need to keep it closer to the front/hitch and not have any weight added over the axles if I can avoid it. Pretty much once the kitchen is stocked stick to the pass-through storage under the front. Fortunately, I can put a bunch of stuff in the truck bed to help offload the trailer while on the highway. The tires are LoadStar Karrier KR35 which looks like they are made by Kenda and have no speed rating stamped on them. Should I assume they are only rated for 65 mph then? These are definitely "Made in China" tires but based on the vast experience of everyone here, should I start looking for new tires or get a couple years use out of these before starting to worry?

Everything else was background, the bolded stuff is my most pressing concern. Ideally I would have tires rated up to ~80 mph for the trailer - is that realistic/reasonable? In my daily driver (just a Mazda CX-9) I regularly drive up to 10 over the speed limit and never more than 78-79 (got enough speeding tickets as a youth to have gotten that out of my system). I know I wont be going as fast in the truck pulling the trailer but would think that 70-75 is not outside of the realm of possibility especially in good conditions with low traffic.

And I do not know if this would be considered off topic or not...my truck has Goodyear Wrangler SR-A LT265/60R20ES tires installed from the factory. The GMC sticker calls for 60 PSI on the fronts, and 75 PSI on the rears. Goodyear specs the tires at 3195# load @ 80 PSI. My rear GAWR on the truck is 6200#. The front GAWR is 5200#. I have been unable to find an inflation/load chart for these tires - should I be good sticking to the sticker spec'd inflation pressures?

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:00 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
...I can put a bunch of stuff in the truck bed to help offload the trailer while on the highway.

Whoops! Hold on a minute.


Remember that a WDH means weight distribution? That hitch doesn't just re-distribute the weight only one way. It also re-distributes the weight in the back of the truck back onto the trailer too. Have a look at this video. Dave talks about single axle trailers, but weight distribution is weight distribution no matter how many axles you have.
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:30 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post

The factory installed tires are ST225/75R15 LRD rated at 2540# each @ 65 PSI (which is also what is on the sticker). Combined that gives me 10160# on the tires but only 8800# on the axles. I believe the trailer was around 7000# empty so when I load it up my understanding is I need to keep it closer to the front/hitch and not have any weight added over the axles if I can avoid it. Pretty much once the kitchen is stocked stick to the pass-through storage under the front. Fortunately, I can put a bunch of stuff in the truck bed to help offload the trailer while on the highway. The tires are LoadStar Karrier KR35 which looks like they are made by Kenda and have no speed rating stamped on them. Should I assume they are only rated for 65 mph then? These are definitely "Made in China" tires but based on the vast experience of everyone here, should I start looking for new tires or get a couple years use out of these before starting to worry?


Thanks in advance for the help!
This is what I did!

I took our brand new 2019 Laredo 225MK (8K GVWR) to Discount Tire and replaced the Goodride ST225/75R15D's with Goodyear Endurance ST225/75R15E's and never looked back. Our trailer has the same 4400 lb axles. My wheels are rated to 80 PSI and I chose to inflate the LRE tires to 71 PSI.

I sold the 4 OEM tires on CL for 200 bucks in one day.

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Old 10-02-2018, 06:06 AM   #170
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Should I assume they are only rated for 65 mph then? These are definitely "Made in China" tires but based on the vast experience of everyone here, should I start looking for new tires or get a couple years use out of these before starting to worry?

I believe inexpensive tires will have been made inexpensively. They may last a season or even two. Or, they may come apart on your first trip out. The quality control just isn't there for the majority of these cheapo tires. All Keystone is worried about is meeting the minimum federal specs and whether the unit makes it to the dealer's lot. After that it's your problem. Most blowouts are the result of poor inflation, speed and tire age. A good tire will offer a little more forgiveness where a cheap tire may fail more easily and often. If you realize you are on borrowed time with the original tires and monitor the pressures "religiously" keeping the speed down, you might get through a season allowing the checkbook to heal up after such an initial major purchase.
That said, you have made a huge investment in your RV combo. For another few hundred dollars you can protect that investment by installing a set of "quality" tires. You can look on line at the results of having a trailer tire blowout at high speed. It ain't pretty and it sure as heck ain't cheap. Also, invest in a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS). Well worth the cost in peace of mind and repair expense since you'll be able to know if a tire is in trouble before it blows. Our TPMS saved our vacation and I'd never tow without it.

As for towing speed, I cruise at around 65 mph. If I need to pass, I'm perfectly comfortable bumping up to 75 to safely get around slower traffic.
Just an example of speed vs time on the road, Let's say I limit my cross country driving day to around 8 hours. And, I get about 300 miles per tank of fuel. At this rate I'm stopping at least twice. At 65mph it takes about 4.5 hours to cover the 300 miles. At 75 mph it's 4 hours. 30 minutes difference doesn't mean that much to me. Arriving safely and less stressed does. Let's face it you've got 5 tons of trailer chasing that Duramax. It's a whole different set of driving dynamics compared to driving a passenger car.
Further, I find with the Cougar, I'm using more 2 lane highways than freeways any way. Our motto :When there's a choice, always take the scenic route"!
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:29 AM   #171
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Thanks for the info, very informative video, I had not considered the weight going back on the trailer at all! Making me completely rethink the use of the WDH system (can just use the hitch without round spring bars obviously). I will have to much more critically look at the trailer next time I hitch it up and go spend a couple hours at some scales assessing all of the different scenarios.

My current to-do list is looking like Goodyear Endurance tires to gain both load and speed ratings (on paper I do not need the additional load but my tires are also of questionable quality) as well as a TPMS system. I figure it makes sense to do them both at the same time since you will have tires off the rims. Any recommendations for TPMS?

I have been reading about Tireminder.

With the new tires, those are the same size, but rated higher load and PSI than my current ones that the sticker on the trailer reflects. Does that mean I would be covered from a legal liability standard and not running my trailer in an "unsafe" condition?

Thanks!

Update: Ordered the tires I came up with the 3 following scale weights I should get measured at a CAT scale (since they have the 3 separate pads). Does this make sense to you guys and get me all the needed info to make informed load decisions?
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:55 PM   #172
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cookinwitdiesel

The tires are LoadStar Karrier KR35 which looks like they are made by Kenda and have no speed rating stamped on them.
################################################## #######
Your tires have a speed rating. Just about every ST tire manufactured in China in the past 2-3 were required to have speed letters. That’s right. The speed lettering system uses alfa lettters to identify different speed restrictions. For instance “J” = 62 MPH –-- “K” = 68 MPH --- “L” = 75 MPH and “M” = 81MPH. There is no speed letter for 65 MPH. ST tires without a speed letter on their sidewalls have a 65 MPH speed limit.

Some ST tire manufacturers mold “Speed Letter” “L” like that on the tire sidewall and it may be followed by the actual speed limit of 75 MPH. The more sophisticated manufacturers will use the a load index number followed by the speed letter that may look like this; 123 L or 123/119 L, the L being the speed letter. Your Keystone owner’s manual has pictures.
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
Thanks for the info, very informative video, I had not considered the weight going back on the trailer at all! Making me completely rethink the use of the WDH system (can just use the hitch without round spring bars obviously). I will have to much more critically look at the trailer next time I hitch it up and go spend a couple hours at some scales assessing all of the different scenarios.

My current to-do list is looking like Goodyear Endurance tires to gain both load and speed ratings (on paper I do not need the additional load but my tires are also of questionable quality) as well as a TPMS system. I figure it makes sense to do them both at the same time since you will have tires off the rims. Any recommendations for TPMS?

I have been reading about Tireminder.

With the new tires, those are the same size, but rated higher load and PSI than my current ones that the sticker on the trailer reflects. Does that mean I would be covered from a legal liability standard and not running my trailer in an "unsafe" condition?

Thanks!

Update: Ordered the tires I came up with the 3 following scale weights I should get measured at a CAT scale (since they have the 3 separate pads). Does this make sense to you guys and get me all the needed info to make informed load decisions?

Some thoughts: You need to get the WDH with sway and use it. With a huge sail behind your truck weighing almost 10k you will need the sway control. You will also need the WD part. Something not mentioned; the payload of the truck. Should be on the white/yellow sticker inside the driver's door.

Depending on your payload, the part about throwing things in the bed to offset loading them in the trailer may not be possible, although preferable to me and is what I do but my payload is 3190 and I have capacity to do it.

You did the right thing buying the new tires and a load range higher (E). Run them at 80psi. My trailer gvw is 10k and the LRD China bombs self destructed the start of my 2nd season. Your trailer is almost 10k. The LRD tires were not sufficient for that weight IMO. The LRE tires are better but still marginal to me. I figure the full weight of the trailer plus some is on those tires from time to time depending on the terrain, road and orientation of the truck and trailer to each other. I also run my truck LT tires at 80psi when towing.

I use the TST 507 TPMS and have been pleased. Have them put metal valve stems in when you have the new tires mounted.
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:51 PM   #174
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Thanks for the help guys. Current Karrier KR35s show 113/108M on them.

The Goodyears are getting installed Thursday, and yes, I am having steel stems put in as well. I already got a TireMinder A1A ready to go on the new stems. I was planning to run the Goodyears at 70-75 PSI, didn't think I would need to max them out at 80? Keep in mind, the axles they are attached to max out at a combined 8800#. The Dexstar rims are rated up to 2860# of load. Here is my spreadsheet I made to track everything (all info pulled either from the tires, the manual, or sticker on the vehicle).

As noted, I will be running a relatively low margin on truck payload. Need to hit a scale once loaded for a realistic camp outing to see what the trailer hitch weight actually is. My stuff in the truck is myself and family (about 350#) and then will likely have:

Generator
5 Gallon Gas Can
Spare 20# Propane Tank
Small compliment of tools (wrenches, tire irons, etc)
My "Tech" bag
Backpack for baby stuff (daughter is 14 months old)

I can't imagine that I will possibly have more than 600# of non-human cargo, plus 350# of us coming out to 950# plus hitch plus trailer tongue weight all needing to be under 2200#. I would think I should be ok but down the road a heavier trailer will change the math.

I have to say, comparing the sticker payload for my VIN to the "specs" online - 300# disappeared that I would rather have available!

Was not going to just abandon the WDH, but curious to see how the weights distribute around. I cannot imagine my trailer getting close to the GVWR which means there should be some room on the trailer axles to carry some more load from the WDH.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:02 PM   #175
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You seem to dodge/ignore the payload question so I assume you will be over that number and rely on the gvwr. What about gawr? When someone determines that is the way they want to tow there's not a lot that folks that want to help and keep you out of trouble can do - nor any reason to ask.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:11 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
Thanks for the help guys. Current Karrier KR35s show 113/108M on them.

The Goodyears are getting installed Thursday, and yes, I am having steel stems put in as well. I already got a TireMinder A1A ready to go on the new stems. I was planning to run the Goodyears at 70-75 PSI, didn't think I would need to max them out at 80? Keep in mind, the axles they are attached to max out at a combined 8800#. The Dexstar rims are rated up to 2860# of load. Here is my spreadsheet I made to track everything (all info pulled either from the tires, the manual, or sticker on the vehicle).

As noted, I will be running a relatively low margin on truck payload. Need to hit a scale once loaded for a realistic camp outing to see what the trailer hitch weight actually is. My stuff in the truck is myself and family (about 350#) and then will likely have:

Generator
5 Gallon Gas Can
Spare 20# Propane Tank
Small compliment of tools (wrenches, tire irons, etc)
My "Tech" bag
Backpack for baby stuff (daughter is 14 months old)

I can't imagine that I will possibly have more than 600# of non-human cargo, plus 350# of us coming out to 950# plus hitch plus trailer tongue weight all needing to be under 2200#. I would think I should be ok but down the road a heavier trailer will change the math.

I have to say, comparing the sticker payload for my VIN to the "specs" online - 300# disappeared that I would rather have available!

Was not going to just abandon the WDH, but curious to see how the weights distribute around. I cannot imagine my trailer getting close to the GVWR which means there should be some room on the trailer axles to carry some more load from the WDH.

As listed in your post, the Karrier KR35s (113/108M) have a 75 MPH speed rating.

Spread sheet correction recommendations;

In accordance with newer 2010 regulations, all propane weight became part of the trailer’s GVW (7010#). The battery weight will not officially be a cause to change the CCC label because it's under 100#. If dealer installed with other options that would bring the total above 100#, it would require the dealer to change the CCC label. (All official CCC info can be found in paragraph S10 of FMVSS 571.120).

Because your Endurance tires are LRE the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended inflation pressures for the Original Equipment tires (LRD) are still valid. The tire size did not change. The new tires just have the ability to produce more load capacity via increased inflation and use the same load inflation charts, so the LRD & LRE both provide identical load capacities at 65 PSI and below.

Just an observation: Your OE tires provided right at 15% in load capacity reserves at 65 PSI. That’s well above the RVIA 10% recommendation and in the ballpark with tire industry recommendations of 12-15% in load capacity reserves. I mention this because it’s nice to see that the RVIA recommendations have been taken seriously by trailer manufacturers.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:22 PM   #177
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Thanks for the info on the propane and battery weights, you are much more honed in to that stuff than I am and that is why this thread has been so informative to me

And yes, I was pleasantly surprised once I started putting everything together in the spreadsheet when I realized that on paper I have decent tires (didn't realize they had a better than 65 mph speed rating at the time either). The idea of putting something a little more reputable on my rims is still comforting though. Should be able to hopefully sell the KR35s for a decent amount to recover some cost. I am replacing all 5 (including the spare). I should buy a tire cover to keep that spare out of the sun too I guess.

I am no expert on tires. You think running them at 65 PSI (for LRD status) is sufficient and a good idea? My main concern is longevity and safety - I do not want them to run hotter than needed or wear out quicker than is necessary. I have weight capacity to spare which gives me some wiggle room.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:35 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post

I am no expert on tires. You think running them at 65 PSI (for LRD status) is sufficient and a good idea? My main concern is longevity and safety - I do not want them to run hotter than needed or wear out quicker than is necessary. I have weight capacity to spare which gives me some wiggle room.

There are a lot of "old school" posters in here when it comes to ST tires and they are going to say, all ST tires need 100% inflation pressures. Your New tires are also "new school" tires.


The best reason to increase their inflation above the recommended 65 PSI is for their protection. The best recommendation you're going to get will be from an Endurance trailer tire expert.


RV trailers are notorious for having unbalanced load capacities on their axles. Some times a single wheel position will be so misbalanced it will be over loaded at the recommended inflation pressure. Without having a weight slip that includes individual wheel position weights, it's always going to be safe to consider maximum inflation for tire protection against overloads.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:40 PM   #179
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So just run them at 80 PSI? I will not be going over 70 very often at all so still have some headroom in speed - which should help keep them in a healthy temperature range I would think. Will the trailer tire PSI make much of a difference in ride quality for us up in the truck?
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:22 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
So just run them at 80 PSI? I will not be going over 70 very often at all so still have some headroom in speed - which should help keep them in a healthy temperature range I would think. Will the trailer tire PSI make much of a difference in ride quality for us up in the truck?
If ride is the concern I don't think it will be a factor but try it out if you feel lucky. Inflate to one pressure, drive over a section of road, inflate to another pressure and drive over the same road, same direction and speed, and see if there's a big difference. Lucky? I used that term because I'm one of those "old school guys". If your concern for ride is greater than safety then maybe you should buy a class A. Towing is nothing but compromise and I don't for a minute believe a word of the "don't know it's back there crowd" but I'll give them the benefit of doubt and say they must not be very observant.
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