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Old 10-16-2013, 09:28 PM   #1
Crash3800
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2
Hey

2014 Outback 250RS towed by a 2003 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW. Previously owned a 2009 Outback 230KRS towed by the same truck as well as three truck campers carried by the Ram as we go back and forth between livability and portability.

After spending a month in our camper in June the pendulum swung back in favor of livability. Living in Colorado and spending a lot of time in the northern Rockies we were concerned with a trailer's cold weather functionality. We ended up at the Keystone factory in Goshen in June where a guy (I'll call him Tim Domiano, the Outback product manager, because that's his name) toured us around the Outback's. When queried specifically about the cold weather protection afforded by the "Arctic Barrier," Tim regaled us with a story about someone living in their Outback through a Montana winter and their only complaint being how much propane they used. "Cool," we thought, a trailer that can be used in the cold. This was a major selling point to us. We bought the trailer from a local dealer in Indiana, having it delivered to us in Colorado in July.

Fast forward to early October. After our power jack broke and it took Keystone a week to figure out how to get one from their facility in Oregon to us a day's drive away in the Tetons, we got stuck in a blizzard on I-80 in Wyoming on our way back to Colorado. We spent the night in a vacant lot in Rawlins, WY. When we pulled in for the night I was concerned to see slush coming out of the cold water tap despite a temperature only in the mid-20's. I turned on the water heater, we left the slides closed and the temperature remained in the mid-60's all night in the trailer.

We woke up the next morning to find that the water lines were sufficiently frozen so that we had no water. The temperature bottomed out at 21 degrees that night. We drove back to warmer weather in Colorado and found that the system pressurized with no problem.

I was concerned, however, at the lack of the robustness of the Arctic Barrier. I contacted my customer service representative. She advised that the Arctic Barrier did not mean that the trailer could be used below "...30 or 35 degrees or whatever freezing is..."

I contacted Tim, the product manager, laying out the problem to him. Tim did call me, however, he spent about an hour tap dancing around the issue of how cold the Outbacks are safe to be used in. He ultimately couldn't tell me that they were safe anywhere below freezing. Living in the Rocky Mountains that's sort of a problem. Tim tried to tell me the same story about the person living in their trailer in Montana all winter long who's only concern was how much propane they used, but was quick to say that the story of someone who can live in a Keystone product in Montana all winter wasn't meant to imply that you could be out in it below freezing.

So, here we are, new to the forum, thoroughly disgusted with Keystone, their Arctic Barrier gimmick and their trailer that wilts anywhere below freezing.
Anyone have any ideas on how to make it usable down to the mid teens or should we just put it on craigslist?

Sorry for the length.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:50 PM   #2
Festus2
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
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Too bad that you just joined and didn't see all of the previous posts and threads about Keystone's infamous cold weather packages. Ours is an Arctic Package, others have the Polar Package, and the package list goes on. You are right, they are all gimmicks created by Keystone to give the impression that these units with those stickers on them will survive quite nicely in freezing temperatures. Nothing could be further from the truth as you have discovered.

If you are moving around in your unit in areas that have prolonged periods of freezing temperatures, then there isn't a lot you can do to make them "warm and cozy" and prevent pipes from freezing.

There are several reasons for this:
1) the "heated" underbelly/tanks is only heated when you have the furnace running and any warm air that wends its way through the 2" duct has pretty much lost all or most of its heat by the time it gets there.

2) The underbelly is very poorly insulated. If you remove the black coroplast underbelly covering, you will see what I mean. You can add insulation which will help somewhat.

3) There are numerous openings in the coroplast which allow any cold air to easily penetrate the enclosure. They would have to be sealed up.

4) Skirting will help but if you are moving about, that isn't an option.

5) If you are staying in an area for a short time and it is in the teens, your pipes will most likely freeze. You could take along a generator and have it running so that you could place a heater(s) near the water pump and in a compartment where the water lines are.

6) Is winterizing your unit an option? If it is, you could take along potable water, or use water and the toilets at the campsite if they are open and not shut down for the winter.

Sorry, but I don't have much in the way of encouraging news for you. These units are for 3 season use - depending of course, on where you live and where you are camping.

Personally, I can't see how you could possibly use your Arctic package in Colorado this winter and not have a repeat of what you just went through.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:01 PM   #3
JRTJH
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Festus2 has given you some sage advice. You're not going to find a "true all season" camper until you get upwards of the $100K range.

One of our members did extensive winterizing on his Keystone product. He has become the "Belly Guru" of the forum.

Here is one of his threads: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8517

You can do a member search for his profile and find all the threads he has started. There are a number of very good, concise and to the point observations and experiences that he details quite thoroughly in those threads.

Hopefully some of that will help you understand what you're facing and give you some ideas on how to minimize the problem as you maximize your camping window. But, even with all the modifications done, you're probably not going to be able to camp comfortably in an RV with running water when it's -20 and the wind is blowing through the canyon.... It just ain't gonna happen in almost any RV, especially a Keystone.
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