Halfton or Mid

[7Iron]

edit: I added a link to the numbers table pic....but it doesn't show??


The data supports what most of you know....with a 14k 5er you need a 3500, but with a 2wd CB, SB 2500 Diesel, the only hit to the numbers is the TV cargo.

with 560 pounds of human, 180 hitch receiver, 165 fuel, and 50 for coffee mugs,iPhones, newspapers , laptop, etc , we would be about 800 lbs over the max cargo of 2872 (the max is never found because of TV options) my guess real cargo for a LTZ is 2300 ish....and that would now move 800 to almost a ton over cargo...

Where to find a 2014-2016 3500 2wd CB SB SRW 3500 that will give a whole 325 lbs of TV cargo RESERVE....(3.5K reserve in GCW...who cares)

Maybe a SMALLER 5er or just stay with my 26ft TT

[7Iron]

hope the table shows up

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by 7Iron

hope the table shows up

The table is visible, but I question the validity of the curb weight section. In that line, the "average added weight for "similar trucks" between 2WD and 4WD is around 350 pounds, but in the last two columns, the difference between the gas 2WD and gas 4WD is over 700 pounds. I didn't calculate or verify all of the data, but that stands out as a significant difference that isn't explained, at least by the information that's available in your post.

Most 4WD models are around 400-500 pounds heavier than their 2WD similar models, so I don't question most of the numbers, but that one example stands out as a question, at least to me.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by 7Iron

edit: I added a link to the numbers table pic....but it doesn't show??


The data supports what most of you know....with a 14k 5er you need a 3500, but with a 2wd CB, SB 2500 Diesel, the only hit to the numbers is the TV cargo.

with 560 pounds of human, 180 hitch receiver, 165 fuel, and 50 for coffee mugs,iPhones, newspapers , laptop, etc , we would be about 800 lbs over the max cargo of 2872 (the max is never found because of TV options) my guess real cargo for a LTZ is 2300 ish....and that would now move 800 to almost a ton over cargo...

Where to find a 2014-2016 3500 2wd CB SB SRW 3500 that will give a whole 325 lbs of TV cargo RESERVE....(3.5K reserve in GCW...who cares)

Maybe a SMALLER 5er or just stay with my 26ft TT

Why start out with that tight of margin if buying a new TV???

I currently carry/tow well over payload with a 2001 Ram 2500, while the TV does this very well, we are looking at a new TV, I am only looking at DRW! I just don’t want to worry about payload in the future!
Our 5er weighs in at 12,500# with a 2,600# pin. If we choose to go bigger I don’t want to replace the TV again.

[Snoking]

OK, you want to see the country in a truck and 5th wheel with three people. Starting point is a crew cab truck, or some one(s) is/are going to get pretty tired of the extended cab back seat.

As many are saying, forget 250/2500's and look at 350/3500's.

Few bunkhouse trailers are have bunks made for tall adults.

Unless your adult son has special needs, why is he not getting his own little super B or such to tag along.

For all to go in the same rig, a toyhauler might allow the privacy you and your DW, and your adult son all need.

Your whole plan is nothing that I would want to attempt.

Being on the road for 6 months and traveling lightly loaded are more or less not attainable.

A trailer that would provide comfortable living for 3 people for 6 months is going to be pushing 40' and require a dually to tow it.

You could consider filming your experience and creating a movie to compete with RV and Long Long Trailer.

Keep posting and lets us know how this all works out.

[7Iron]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The table is visible, but I question the validity of the curb weight section. I don't question most of the numbers, but that one example stands out as a question, at least to me.

The Curb wt is a calculated number as the GMC brochure does not provide. It gives the "GVWR" (the total you can have) and the "Max Payload" (cargo) so the Curb Wt in the table is GVWR minus the cargo.

I think a chunk (if not all ) is marketing....look at the GVWR for the 3500 (from the brochure) and the Max Cargo (payload) from the brochure....which is the source of your question.....IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE....for some reason in the gas verison the GVWR is 300 lbs more for 4WD and the max cargo is the same. I think since they build and try to sell mor 4WD they jack up the GVWR to prevent the max payload from being reduced...

What hurts my head even more is the 5er trailer wts (from brochure) I have added the ratio of trailer wt to GCWR...55% to 70....I am not smart enough to solve that mystery[marketing??]

BTW the black numbers are calculated and blue are from the brochure

[7Iron]

Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!

Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.

One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by 7Iron

Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!

Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.

One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.

Our 39' 4" Big Horn has 3K of carrying capacity and we used up almost all of it. Chris

[JRTJH]

7iron,

Once you start "living on the road" you'll soon find that all the things you had at home won't fit, but many of them are "absolutely necessary" even if you aren't at home. Things like an air compressor, a tool box, extra rope, a couple of extension cords, then the adapters for electrical connections for different parks, that 50 amp extension cord.... Oh, don't forget the multimeter, or the roll of electrical tape, and don't forget the Teflon tape (yellow and white) for gas and water lines, then add the wrench to undo the anode rod in the water heater, and there's the grease gun to lube the landing gear and the extra tube of grease for when the one in the gun is empty.....

You'll be amazed at how things accumulate when full timing. Things that you either have to throw away and buy again or simply "add to the pile".... 1800 pounds is "about right for a weekend, a week's vacation or maybe a month long jaunt" but nowhere near what you'll have onboard when you start full timing.

[Snoking]

Don't forget the cordless drill, impact driver, and charger. Box of drill bits and driver bits. Always trying to run with empty tanks sometimes just does not work. We carry a Honda eu2000i generator and a little extra fuel for it. A 10 pound/2 gal propane tank for the BBQ. Then there is clothes for more than one season. Depending of the trailer, one may have to have a tub of blocks or those yellow plastic ones.

Oh and a 4T+ hydraulic jack. Torque wrench. Spare fuel filters if it is a diesel. On and on. Chris

[JRTJH]

We were in Memphis at a campground a couple weeks ago. There was a fifth wheel parked a few sites from us that also was triple towing. We had the Slingshot on a trailer behind our fifth wheel. He had a 6x12 boxed utility trailer. One afternoon they were rearranging the trailer. It was full of totes and there were two "clothes rods" along the back. It appeared to me that much of their "seasonal clothing and gear" was stored in that trailer and they simply changed out the closets in the fifth wheel depending on the season.

I suppose, if you've "got to take it all with you" that you'll either find a place to store what you "have to have" or if you want a little "luxury of extra stuff" that you'll find a way to take it with you if you don't have a place to "return for re-equipping".... They chose to simply take it all with them "all the time"....

[cookinwitdiesel]

Get the 3500. No questions asked it is needed for a good 5er experience. I went through a similar exercise as you earlier this year. I read the GMC brochure, did all my homework, settled on a Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel - since I was looking at TTs only I had talked myself out of a 3500. Beautiful truck for sure. Once I had it and my trailer I started doing my (late) research to make sure everything is "in spec" when looking at axles, tires, GVWRs, etc.

As noted on the GMC website, my TV should have 2513# of payload right? SURPRISE!!!! It actually has 2144# per the sticker (all those Denali niceties came at a steep weight cost). Those last few hundred pounds were a rough blow. I have a min packaged Denali too, sun roof? Take off a couple hundred more, dual alternators? There goes more. And so on. I also got a nice bed lid since I have a bumper pull, that is another 100# as well. It chips away so fast it is SCARY. I Pretty much immediately regretted not getting a 3500 but there is no point in trying to trade in a brand new truck - I would be throwing away $7-10k instantly which is just not wise. May as well drive it a few years before getting a bigger trailer and just upgrade both then. By the way, 5ers are pretty much OUT OF THE QUESTION if you want to stay in spec with my truck. That is, any of them - unless freakishly low Pin weight for some reason which will come with other compromises in trailer quality/size/layout as noted.

Here is the sticker for my truck (same as in my sig) as well as the spreadsheet I had made for my own shopping comparison purposes. The 3rd pic shows some of the more detailed specs I got after doing my LATE research into the differences between the models (next post since I couldn't add it through an edit). It is MORE than just different springs and badging. Note the different axle ratings between the 2500 and 3500 SRW models.

The 3500 will cost about the same, the drive will be pretty much indistinguishable, but it will be the right truck. When looking at trucks, like, the physical one you would buy, be sure to check the sticker to see what that specific machines payload rating is - do not just rely on the online specs and get surprised like I did.

I hope this helps you make a well informed decision!

[cookinwitdiesel]

Here is 3rd pic.

[Snoking]

Towing a 5th wheel trailer is all about rear axle weight carrying capacity. The physical 5th wheel hitch mounted in the bed and most stuff carried in the bed place weight mostly on the rear axle, add to the that the pin weight of the 5th wheel trailer again mostly on the rear axle, and that is the rating that one has to really watch carefully. Chris

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by 7Iron

Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!

Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.

One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.

I would join and watch that Vlog.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by Snoking

Don't forget the cordless drill, impact driver, and charger. Box of drill bits and driver bits. Always trying to run with empty tanks sometimes just does not work. We carry a Honda eu2000i generator and a little extra fuel for it. A 10 pound/2 gal propane tank for the BBQ. Then there is clothes for more than one season. Depending of the trailer, one may have to have a tub of blocks or those yellow plastic ones.

Oh and a 4T+ hydraulic jack. Torque wrench. Spare fuel filters if it is a diesel. On and on. Chris

LOL I took that on a 2 week trip

[Frederick]

I agree with the guy telling you to go larger TV is a F-350 6.7 D and I love it came with tow package er package and camper package everything you need to pull anything

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

LOL I took that on a 2 week trip

Hey, I have seen specs on many 40' + 5th wheels with only 2K of carrying capacity. No way is that going to work for expended living in those units.

Two 7K axles just does not cut it with these larger units along with 16" LRG tires. All of the Montana's still list ST235/80R16G tires. Not one has 17.5" wheels and tires listed as standard.

Trailers all seem to be getting larger and the manufacturers have lagged between on the running gear under them. Chris

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by 7Iron

Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!

Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.

One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.

Don't rule out a DRW, I know all the reasons too big, won't fit in the garage, parking.....

I convinced my DD who also drives a VW Jetta to get a 2004 Ram 3500 DRW. She doesn't have any issues driving it be it city streets or country road, you will get use to the "Hips" very soon. Rams after 2013 have a GVWR of 14,000# so really no payload issues. Also Ram SRW 3500 can have as much as 4,000#+ of payload which is more than GM or Ford.

Got a good laugh out of a salesman the other day. Took a 2012 Ram DRW for a test drive, the drive took us over a bridge (one way two lane) that the rail is right at the edge of the lane (passenger side), been over it before with my 2500 and 5er, and never crowd the center line. Drove that DRW right down the center of the lane, and the salesman was looking in the mirror! I looked at him and said, I had about a foot to foot and a half correct? His response was yeesss?

[7Iron]

John and Chris,

It has always been my style to seek out experts/experienced folks and suck them for all info/data that I can get..... to hear and to listen.

Thank you !!

Bottom line I cant/wont ignore the compelling/clear msg:

that "living" RVing has a different/additional set of cargo requirements.

(I wont ignore until I understand it and disagree)

I will re-ponder my load-out manifest as our RVing has only been 10 days or less. I have a load out listing that I made when we first purchased our TT, I am going to find it and hopefully ya'll can give me a heads up on what I haven't allowed/planned for.

What is a little a perplexing to me; is that there only 2 items you mentioned (including the tape and multimeter) that I do not carry in my current 1640 ---the genset and grease gun.

jeez, we have two bird feeders and seed...,long handled RV cleaning brush, 3 folding chairs, rivet gun , 3 sets of binoculars, floor fans, space heater, rugs , a 12x12 outside screen folding room, leaf blower, ice maker, folding tables ....on and on

65lbs of cast iron cooking ware, stuff associated with the outside kitchen--(my RV passion) is one (if not the) of biggest contributor(s) to the 1640#..it incl a fire ring, campfire grill and rotisserie, Cabela's Deluxe Camper Kitchen (57# empty), cutting boards, etc...

And the tub of leveling blocks (4x4x8, 2x6xassorted, and box of Lynx levelers can now be removed/reduced, as I just purchased Andersen Camper Levelers) my guess is 30-45 lbs

I am hoping the bikes attached on the rear bumper will provide negative xft/lbs to the pin wt as they are now in the TV bed.

And I carry a 20#tank in a plastic milk carton for my outside Cabela's Kitchen config....I will eliminate with 5er and carry a long hose(s).

and BTW, Chris, we had our first flat this past couple of weeks and the 2T bottle that I carried in the TT did not cut the mustard, the tonnage is fine but the lift travel would not lift the TT high enough...(I now regret not asking advice/counsel on what bottle jack!!)...and I also purchased the Andersen Rapid Jack (thinking about eliminating the 4T jack?? and save another 2-3 lbs.

In the 11 homes that we have owned (we moved a lot) I have had 1-3 car garages, workshops and barns.....I always filled them up!!

I am a former aerospace engineer and weight reduction is in my DNA!!--unless it for the outside kitchen