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Old 10-10-2018, 05:39 PM   #1
Alaskaman
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Carbon 417 high step when auto-leveled

While waiting for our hitch delivery from the lower 48, the dealer delivered our new 417 to our house, and leveled it, which required some blocks on the low side of the parking pad. The tires on the low side are off the ground. It appears all jacks are close to full extension. This is the Level-up system.


One problem is, the door between the coach and garage is very high, as in need a stool to step up to the bottom step. I feel that the door is too tight at the bottom as well.


Why can't I manually level it and wind up with it lower to the ground? I've had the tech come out and reset/save the level system, but just not excited about jumping up to the first step.


Anyone else have this issue, or is that the price we pay for the pad drainage slope? The garage door actually closes nicely when the front is dropped down from level a few inches.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:22 PM   #2
chuckster57
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Level up system will have “manual mode”, which will allow you to raise/lower jacks.

Two different touch pads and operation:
https://www.lci1.com/support-towable-br-level-up/
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:42 PM   #3
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Hey chuckster, I understand what you're saying, I just wonder if it needs to be that high or can I level it with less extension on the legs. Since the dealer tech did the leveling and memory function if that's the way it needs to be?


I could mess with it myself, and did before the tech came out. That caused a lot of axle snapping and frame twisting, not anxious to do that again and doubt the dealer will send out the tech again. It's over 60 miles R/T to the dealer.


Thanks for the reply, I'll just take a shot and see if it will manually level lower and reset.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:47 PM   #4
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A picture would really help if you can show us how it is leveled. These 43’ units are very easy to impart frame twist because of the front jack extension necessary to get level front to back even with only a slight incline. I actually was shocked the first time the auto level function twisted my frame on its own to the point I will only level manually now if I’m out of level front to back more than a couple of inches.

I have jack blocks which permit me to gain 8 inches under the front jacks before starting to level. For stability I will usually try to find a better site before using them.

Edit: pic added for illustration.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:24 AM   #5
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I believe your asking if you can make your trailer un level so you can get in it easier?

Yeah you sure can, scroll through the up and down and click manual, then retract and lower the door side down. It will be easy to get out, it will all be down hill!
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:24 PM   #6
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I understand I can adjust the units stance, making it not level in the process. My question is can I level it at a lower static height than it's at now, the dealer tech that came to the house to reset the system pretty much said don't mess with it. I'm reluctant to change anything before I know it will help with the height of the step.


These photos show what I'm dealing with, this is how the tech left it after leveling and resetting the auto level memory. The rear setp is 16" high, the front is almost 20". Maybe that's normal?
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:59 PM   #7
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I believe the 'memory' really applies to what it considers level, not length of jack extension.
It sounds like the "left rear" is the highest point, and the right front is the lowest point. Your issue may be that your pad is not level enough.
The leveler will make the front near level, and extend the rear to "level-up" . If the right side is low, it results in those wheels off the ground, and the steps being very high. Longer the trailer, the more you will notice this.
If you do manual adjustments note that: "left" does left front & rear; right does right front & rear.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:12 PM   #8
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Thanks for all of the input. I believe I need to find a near level location to do the manual level-up thing, and assume the system will adjust for different terrain to make itself level. At least I'll know and see the difference form what I have now. My driveway and parking area are all new, I know for a fact the paver provided drainage slope to the project which is about 6,000 sqft. The parking area is low on the "drivers" side.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #9
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Alaskaman,

Good friends were here a few days ago and we discussed the auto leveling. I told him I was prone to buying a new trailer that had auto level because it seemed so nice and convenient...he said it was; but....

He has a GD Solitude about 40' or so. He said he gave up on "auto" level. It took too long and he always ended up having his wheels up in the air or having to use blocks. He advised that he now uses manual mode on all 6 jacks. He no longer has the aggravation of the "auto" level and the problems it created.

I do not have self leveling but I will tell you our friend has spent years traveling the country year round and knows ost everything about towing an RV. I trust him greatly so that might be something to think about.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:51 PM   #10
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Is your tech making the payments on your rv? If not, mess with it all you want, that's the best way to learn how it operates!
If the tech calibrated it correctly you should be able to mess with it til your hearts content & if you can't do better just hit "auto" & stand back til it's done it's thing, should go back to where it started.
From my experiences the front jacks (can't tell about the others) are extended very far, won't hurt the jacks but the longer the extension the less stable the rv feels. Personally I'd add about 6" blocks under the front at least & then level manually til you're happy. If the driveway slopes to drivers side that should make the steps lower.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:22 PM   #11
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Sourdough, that's a shame as much as the level-up system is praised by some. Manual leveling isn't that much of problem, just takes away the "hey look at that" in the campground, ha ha.



Travelin', my thought is with the drivers side low it would raise the other side, hat is if the driver side ran out of stroke and it wasn't level. But the fact is at level the step is high to me.



We moved from Texas several years ago to return to Alaska, grandkids were here and all. We lived just North of Austin in Georgetown.


I will mess with it when I can get it to someplace level, just not reset the memory thing until I'm happy with how it sits.


Thanks again
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:42 AM   #12
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If the "step off the bottom" is the only problem you have, you might consider a folding aluminum step to use beneath your existing steps. There is a "cheaper steel version" but it's heavier and rusts. We've got a similar one that we use when the trailer is level and the step is too high.... And, no, we don't have a "automatic leveling system" (unless you call DH (me) "automatic").....

Here's one for starters, there are many other styles: https://www.amazon.com/Finether-Port...orm+Step&psc=1
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #13
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I've seen different styles and have a step already. This isn't our first rodeo, I just find it odd that my previous 5ver, a 2012, 39.5' Montana Big Sky with the same level-up system, was not near what this unit is for entry height.


The feedback from everyone is appreciated, reckon it's time to move on!
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:55 PM   #14
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Now I see the issue you are having. It does look like a “feature” inherent with the step choice Keystone decided to install on your model trailer. Look at the picture I’m attaching. The steps I have are very sturdy but you can clearly see that they get lower due to the fourth step

I’m able to see in your picture that your pad is nearly level side to side. The height to that first step is exacerbated by a combination of only having three steps and the axle under spring(flipped) configuration all newer toy haulers have in order to address the taller trucks.

I know you could get the step a little lower by leveling manually. Here is how I would do it. First, I agree with the other post to find a way to add additional blocks under the front jacks. This will aid stability and preserve enough stroke in those jacks to allow side to side leveling if necessary. Next, raise the nose until level or to your comfort point since some like it a bit high(me included). Now on the low side, extend the rear jacks and raise until level side to side then go just a hair past. Finally, extend the jacks on the other side until they ground and just barely lift that side completing side to side leveling. You may now find that the nose is a bit low so raise it a bit if necessary. Done.

BTW, I keep one of those steps from camping world in the truck bed just in case.

Edit: Disregard the petloader steps on the rear entrance. You can see the Keystone steps underneath which match the front ones.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:46 PM   #15
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I see what your saying Matt, I'll give it a try. I do like the step set on your Fusion! Are those rears aftermarket? If so, where can they be found?



Thanks
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Old 10-14-2018, 07:00 AM   #16
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I have a 42’ 2016 Fuzion 416. I don’t think they’re in production anymore. If the pad site is too uneven the wheels will lift up on one side. I like the auto level but it can only do so much. I have learned and the dealer told me the surface has to be somewhat level on both sides.

I have taken a 2x12 long enough to fit under all 3 tires on the low side which worked on pad sites that were unlevel but didn’t have big, uneven cracks in the concrete, etc. WARNING: you have to be very careful rolling onto the plank cause the first tire can make the end of the plank pop up and hit the underside of the trailer. Also, they can split. i have used horse trailer pads which come in 4x8 cut them down with a box cutter, attached to 2x12x12 wood for chocks but not sure how much weight the horse pad could support on its own or attached to a long board. I HAVE NOT TRIED THIS: but I’ve toyed with the idea of trying something like Bigfoot pads cut long enough to fit under all three 3 tires. They come small for RVs but also have larger sizes that can support enormous amounts of weight. https://www.outriggerpads.com/

I have not checked into the cost or weight factor.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:02 AM   #17
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Lynx Levelers (the orange interlocking ones, not the yellow ones by Camco) are extremely durable and will support an incredible amount of weight. I have a friend with a 40' DP motorhome (30K+ weight) and he uses them to aid his leveling system. He drives the low side of his coach up onto the Lynx Levelers, sometimes stacked 3 or 4 high and says he's been using the same blocks for 10 years.

All of that to suggest that you might want to look at the "orange levelers" at WalMart before spending a lot of money on solid plastic blocks. Mine are at least 8 years old, still working great, support 10K with no issues on my trailer, support over 30K on a DP motorhome without breaking. At $25 for 10, a couple of sets will get a double axle trailer 4" up and a triple axle 2" (maybe 3") up on the low side when placed under the tires.

We've used an entire set (10 blocks) under each rear jack to help stabilize the trailer and they seem to be much more stable than stacking 2x6's or 2x8's to get the same height.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskaman View Post
I see what your saying Matt, I'll give it a try. I do like the step set on your Fusion! Are those rears aftermarket? If so, where can they be found?



Thanks
All my steps are the factory installed ones in 2016 except that pet loader step. I don’t think your after one of those but they can be found at petloader.com.

Keystone eliminated the four step folding system from the Fuzion line in 2017(front and back). The rear was replaced with a three step system that I think is the same as the model on your trailer. The front was replaced with Morryde foldup steps. You can check with your dealer to see if the four step folding steps can be made available as an upgrade. This link shows pictures of the four step system on both front and back doors on my unit: https://www.lci1.com/alumi-tread. That would make me think LCI will sell them to dealers. No guarantees but it would make sense for Keystone to use the same frame and the mounting for all model 4XX toy haulers. Or, check out the Morryde alternative and see if it works for you.
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskaman View Post
While waiting for our hitch delivery from the lower 48, the dealer delivered our new 417 to our house, and leveled it, which required some blocks on the low side of the parking pad. The tires on the low side are off the ground. It appears all jacks are close to full extension. This is the Level-up system.


One problem is, the door between the coach and garage is very high, as in need a stool to step up to the bottom step. I feel that the door is too tight at the bottom as well.


Why can't I manually level it and wind up with it lower to the ground? I've had the tech come out and reset/save the level system, but just not excited about jumping up to the first step.


Anyone else have this issue, or is that the price we pay for the pad drainage slope? The garage door actually closes nicely when the front is dropped down from level a few inches.
My Carbon has the same system as yours (Lippert Level Up).

A couple thoughts on this:

1. Once you have used the system to 'auto level' once after disconnecting, if you want to redo it, don't just hit the AutoLevel button again, you need to retract the rear jacks all the way (so the tires are back on the ground) and the fronts until the trailer is just a bit nose high, THEN retry the auto level. While playing with mine, I discovered that if you just keep hitting the AutoLevel button, it will keep raising the trailer higher and higher until all the wheels are off the ground! Seems like bad programming on Lippert's part, but that's what mine does!

2. I could be mistaken, but from reading your posts, it sounds like you are under the impression that the system has some kind of "memory" function that "remembers" the jack extension positions (like an electric seat position memory feature in your truck). That isn't the case, the system just does its best to make the trailer "level" by extending the 6 jacks as much as necessary to achieve that, there is no way to "store" and reuse that data. The only thing that you can "reset/save" is the calibration that it uses to decide what "level" actually means, but this has nothing to do with jack extension lengths. I think it would be a very bad idea to park the trailer in a non-level spot and then calibrate the system so that it thinks that's what true "level" is.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:58 AM   #20
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Mine starts the level process from where the front is set once I disconnect, for my travel trailer. So if I leave the front at the right height to disconnect I can end up with wheels off the ground. If I lower the front below the hitching point I don't seem to end up as high when completed. Just a thought.
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