Removing all four wheels?

[wrvond]

I need to remove all four wheels at the same time. I've never done that with a fifth wheel and am a bit nervous - ok, a LOT nervous!
I've seen YouTube videos of people using their auto leveling jacks to raise the camper to remove the wheels. I've got the Ground Control 3.0 with the front landing gear and one jack behind each rear wheel.
Is it safe to lift all four wheels off the ground using the leveling jacks?

I've got bottle jacks and jack stands of sufficient capacity, but the stands have curved seats on them intended for automobile axles, which leaves two teeny tiny contact points on the flat I-beam frame of the camper. Not real confidence inspiring to say the least.

So what is the recommended method for getting all the wheels up off the ground at the same time?

Thanks!

[wrvond]

Never mind. I found my answer:

[jasin1]

I recently replaced my tires and I used ground control to take some weight off the trailer but not lift it entirely..I used floor jacks to carefully jack up the wheels at each spring hanger.
Then I used heavy wood blocks under the drums while each tire was off…I had all four wheels off at the same time for a few hours..it felt stable..I also used blocks under each landing gear so they weren’t over extended

If I was really worried I could hook up to my truck in the driveway and do the same procedure because I have another pickup truck I could use to run the tires to the tire shop

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I recently replaced my tires and I used ground control to take some weight off the trailer but not lift it entirely..I used floor jacks to carefully jack up the wheels at each spring hanger.
Then I used heavy wood blocks under the drums while each tire was off…I had all four wheels off at the same time for a few hours..it felt stable..I also used blocks under each landing gear so they weren’t over extended

If I was really worried I could hook up to my truck in the driveway and do the same procedure because I have another pickup truck I could use to run the tires to the tire shop

Hooking the truck up does go a long way toward making everything feel more secure. Sadly I only have the one vehicle and have to drive the wheels into town to get the new tires mounted.

I'm starting to think it would be easier all around to simply take the camper in and let the tire shop do the work...

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Hooking the truck up does go a long way toward making everything feel more secure. Sadly I only have the one vehicle and have to drive the wheels into town to get the new tires mounted.

I'm starting to think it would be easier all around to simply take the camper in and let the tire shop do the work...

Well you could do two tires at a time if it’s not that far from town..might be an option..one tire on each side ..I felt like it was more trouble to drag my fifth wheel to the tire shop so I just did it myself…I’d make sure they don’t try and jack up the rv from the axles …most tire places would know the proper way but with the current workforce and high turnover I’d double check

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Well you could do two tires at a time if it’s not that far from town..might be an option..one tire on each side ..I felt like it was more trouble to drag my fifth wheel to the tire shop so I just did it myself…I’d make sure they don’t try and jack up the rv from the axles …most tire places would know the proper way but with the current workforce and high turnover I’d double check

You are absolutely right. I'd have to be right on top of them the whole time to ensure they did it correctly - already worry about them gouging the aluminum wheels.
It's an hour drive each way and I'd probably do a lot of waiting around to get fit in. Better to make an appointment and take all five in at once.

One problem is my driveway really isn't flat at any point. It gets less steep next to the house, but still not flat and I worry about the camper sliding off the jack stands.
I never worried about the travel trailers because I had stabilizer jacks at each corner plus the tongue jack plus the jack stands under the tie plates.

I think I'm going to have to raise the rear levelers, lift using the frame and then put the jack stands under the tie plates, lower the rear leveler to take some weight, then do the other side the same way.

I was kind of trying to avoid putting any weight on the tie plates since Keystone is so adamantly against it.

[rhagfo]

Been there done that with our 32' Copper Canyon. I used bottle jack on frame and used 2X4 stacked "Cribbing" this is very stable. I did NOT attach the truck as I may have needed it for parts run. I did this when I installed the Correct Tack system on our 5er.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Never mind. I found my answer:

Where did you see this?

[ChuckS]

If this was a Lippert 3.0 six point electric and most certainly if it was a six point hydraulic level up I would have NO hesitation using the level up and removing all four tires at once... provided the spot was fairly level...

And there is NOT ONE THING wrong with jacking at the axle directly under the U bolts for the axle springs to change tires...

That is how 99% of the tire shops would change your tires in the first place..

and yes.. i use my lippert six point hydraulic level up to remove my tires all the time.. Lippert will tell you not to use that to CYA and Dexter or Lippert will say dont jack at the axle to CYA...

where folks get into trouble jacking via the axle is they place the jack other than under the spring u bolts and then jack and it screws up the camber that is prebent into the axle

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

If this was a Lippert 3.0 six point electric and most certainly if it was a six point hydraulic level up I would have NO hesitation using the level up and removing all four tires at once... provided the spot was fairly level...

And there is NOT ONE THING wrong with jacking at the axle directly under the U bolts for the axle springs to change tires...

That is how 99% of the tire shops would change your tires in the first place..

and yes.. i use my lippert six point hydraulic level up to remove my tires all the time.. Lippert will tell you not to use that to CYA and Dexter or Lippert will say dont jack at the axle to CYA...

where folks get into trouble jacking via the axle is they place the jack other than under the spring u bolts and then jack and it screws up the camber that is prebent into the axle

If you read my post I said I jack up under the spring pack..that’s what I did. My point was don’t let anyone jack up the axles anywhere else ..I had my truck tires changed last year on my 3/4 ton Ram and the tire place used two jacks ..one under each axle and balanced it. I wasn’t happy. …they took off all four wheels and it was like on a tightrope.

I don’t always assume that everyone working at a tire place knows the correct way to do everything…trailers are different then trucks and cars …the worker might have started the week before and someone says … “ go out and jack that trailer up”

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Been there done that with our 32' Copper Canyon. I used bottle jack on frame and used 2X4 stacked "Cribbing" this is very stable. I did NOT attach the truck as I may have needed it for parts run. I did this when I installed the Correct Tack system on our 5er.

Wow! That's quite impressive! I don't think I've got enough wood around my house to build ONE of those!

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Where did you see this?

A YouTube video by Lippert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkSYQyUxH0g

Originally Posted by ChuckS

If this was a Lippert 3.0 six point electric and most certainly if it was a six point hydraulic level up I would have NO hesitation using the level up and removing all four tires at once... provided the spot was fairly level...

And there is NOT ONE THING wrong with jacking at the axle directly under the U bolts for the axle springs to change tires...

That is how 99% of the tire shops would change your tires in the first place..

and yes.. i use my lippert six point hydraulic level up to remove my tires all the time.. Lippert will tell you not to use that to CYA and Dexter or Lippert will say dont jack at the axle to CYA...

where folks get into trouble jacking via the axle is they place the jack other than under the spring u bolts and then jack and it screws up the camber that is prebent into the axle

I agree completely. If I had the six point system I'd probably go with it too.
As far as the tire shop is concerned, that's why I said I'd have to be right on top of them to ensure they did it correctly. Because you're right, most of them would either roll a jack under the axle and lift or use the equalizer as a lift point to get both axles up at the same time.
Historically I've been in the "use the tie plate" camp as well and I've never seen any ill effects from it. With this brand spanking new 5er which, at 10,000 lbs. GVWR is the heaviest camper I've owned, I've been trying to do everything "by the book". But quite frankly, I feel the jack stands are much more secure under the tie plate than under the frame. It'd be different if the frame fit down inside the yoke or seat on the jack stand, but it's too wide and just sits on two little contact points. Not much friction to hold a camper in place there!

[chuckster57]

Interesting. We have used GC 4 point to lift a trailer for axle service too many times to count, never an issue. The only documentation that I recall is the advice to use jackstands under the frame for safety.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Hooking the truck up does go a long way toward making everything feel more secure. Sadly I only have the one vehicle and have to drive the wheels into town to get the new tires mounted.

I'm starting to think it would be easier all around to simply take the camper in and let the tire shop do the work...

does the tire dealer have a small lot? I have always taken my trailer to the tire dealer.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

does the tire dealer have a small lot? I have always taken my trailer to the tire dealer.

Not who you directing question to but the place I took my tires is a fairly big place that can handle trucks and trailers…I was originally going to take the rv there…while I was getting the tires swapped a couple of dump trucks squeezed in with one of them pulling a backhoe.. a semi pulled at one end of the parking lot and the parking lot had debris from objects pulled out of tires where they did the repairs. I know all places aren’t like that but I would have been nervous with all that activity going on in close proximity to my trailer.

The guy with the backhoe almost broke a chain down shackle trying to raise the backhoe on the trailer to change the tire…thought me or my truck was gonna get cut in half

[Javi]

I can't tell you how many times I had all four of they trailer tires off the ground using first the Ground Control 3 on the Cougar and now the Level Up system on the Avalanche.. Way to many to count.. Last time was Saturday when I rotated the tires..

[ChuckS]

Another issue when some of these tire places go to install the new tire is they have No Idea what a 3 step torque sequence is or why it is needed... If I had to use a tire place to get tires changed out I would discuss this first before the work was done and then stand out and watch it being done..

When I take my truck in every 3 months to get the tires rotated and balanced I stand outside of the work bay and observe... The folks here know that I know what the torque is on my truck lug nuts and they also know that if they lay one of my OEM hub caps down on the concrete upside down they are gonna hear from me..

I trust no one when it comes to torque on lug nuts.. And I have watched the place I get my truck take care of at .. Les Schwab Tires and have seen RVs in for new tire due to a blowout, etc and observed their work.. They know what they are doing at this specific Les Schwab place and jack under the spring hanger plate and lift One side at a time while doing the work..

And they have a chart they use to determine what torque sequence should be used for the RV lug nuts... many places would not have a clue and not realize that RV wheels are Lug centered and not Hub centered... except of course for class C and A motor homes

[friz]

4 jack stands. 1 floor jack. You figure out the rest. Work smarter, not harder.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Interesting. We have used GC 4 point to lift a trailer for axle service too many times to count, never an issue. The only documentation that I recall is the advice to use jackstands under the frame for safety.

Other than pulling them cross country, this is my first real experience with 5ers, so kinda new territory for me. Recently saw a video of a guy with a Grand Design using auto level on uneven ground, he about pretzelled his landing gear.
My big concern is when something starts to go wrong, it's already too late.

Originally Posted by rhagfo

does the tire dealer have a small lot? I have always taken my trailer to the tire dealer.

I purchased the tires (Carlisle) from Walmart.com so the Walmart service center said they'll mount them for free. Twelve bucks each to balance.
So, big parking lot, but often tough to navigate.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by friz

4 jack stands. 1 floor jack. You figure out the rest. Work smarter, not harder.

Perhaps these will illustrate why I'm a bit concerned:

[wrvond]

On the one hand, if I want it done right, I gotta do it myself.
On the other hand, if I screw up, it'll be big...