Can My Tundra Handle a Cougar 29BHL?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jfk69

Do I “feel” a wind blast from said cattle truck? Yes. Does it cause my rig to sway? No. You obviously haven’t pulled a fiver with a capable tow vehicle compared to your bumper hitch. I suggest trying it before making sweeping generalizations about something you appear to have no experience with.

The sad part is the TV doesn’t need to be truly capable! As a park host I have seen many towing mid sized 5th wheels with 1/2 ton TV! Knowing that likely all were overloaded.
As mentioned I for several years towed our 5th wheel wit a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with 5 speed manual. It scaled 1,700# over TV GVWR, within axle and tire ratings
The physics of a 5th wheel are far superior, those of a TT, it eliminates the leverage of the pivot point being 3’ to 4’ aft of the rear axle. About the same as trying to loosen a nut with 2’ breaker bar, or a nut driver (like a screw driver).

Just an FYI to the OP, our 5th wheel has a 2,800# pin and with a SRW 3500 we would have been tight on numbers, as DW, myself, and my in bed tool box adds 1,400# to my payload so total payload is 4,200#!

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The sad part is the TV doesn’t need to be truly capable! As a park host I have seen many towing mid sized 5th wheels with 1/2 ton TV! Knowing that likely all were overloaded.
As mentioned I for several years towed our 5th wheel wit a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with 5 speed manual. It scaled 1,700# over TV GVWR, within axle and tire ratings
The physics of a 5th wheel are far superior, those of a TT, it eliminates the leverage of the pivot point being 3’ to 4’ aft of the rear axle. About the same as trying to loosen a nut with 2’ breaker bar, or a nut driver (like a screw driver).

Just an FYI to the OP, our 5th wheel has a 2,800# pin and with a SRW 3500 we would have been tight on numbers, as DW, myself, and my in bed tool box adds 1,400# to my payload so total payload is 4,200#!

Agreed. Been down that road myself. The fact is, the stability of a fifth wheel can absolutely overshadow inadequacies of the tow vehicle (often until it’s too late). With that said, when you have an adequate tow vehicle, fifth wheels are a dream to pull relative to any bumper hitch with the best hitch in the world. That’s a fact.

[GlasNav]

I used the wrong word, it isn't a shockwave, it is actually a pressure wave, that causes the bang / whoosh, whatever. However, IF you read my post I didn't mention sway at all, I was simply discussing the "blast" that is encountered!

I've ridden in semis, and know what those trucks experience in the meeting situation, they hear the bang but with the truck weighing in the 20K lb range isn't affected much either.

I will leave it at that, this was a mere statement that it is impossible not to notice the effect and all of those replying verified this!

[chuckster57]

I shake my head sometimes when a customer comes in for service and it’s obvious they are an accident waiting to happen.

True story: previous dealership, sold a triple axle Grand designs Momentum toy hauler. Customer didn’t want to pay for it to be delivered 5 miles. Picked it up with a 90’s Chevy 1500. Put 100 psi in the rear tires, and off he went. The rear suspension was non functional and the front tires were barely touching pavement.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I shake my head sometimes when a customer comes in for service and it’s obvious they are an accident waiting to happen.

True story: previous dealership, sold a triple axle Grand designs Momentum toy hauler. Customer didn’t want to pay for it to be delivered 5 miles. Picked it up with a 90’s Chevy 1500. Put 100 psi in the rear tires, and off he went. The rear suspension was non functional and the front tires were barely touching pavement.

My brother in law pulled a 40’ Cedar Creek Hathaway edition for 3 years with an F150 in spite of his sons and I railing on him constantly. My sis finally heard us telling him that in an accident his insurance could hose him and put an end to that. Crazy.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jfk69

My brother in law pulled a 40’ Cedar Creek Hathaway edition for 3 years with an F150 in spite of his sons and I railing on him constantly. My sis finally heard us telling him that in an accident his insurance could hose him and put an end to that. Crazy.

I can't believe that was at all a pleasant experience at all! Sure hope he didn't take any long trips.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I can't believe that was at all a pleasant experience at all! Sure hope he didn't take any long trips.

He enjoyed it. Crazy eh?

[jsb5717]

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. There will always be 2 kinds of folks who drive mis-matched setups

Ignorant - Not a bad word...just means you don't know what you don't know. Their danger is proceeding without getting educated. But, they don't know and proceed off of gut thinking all is well. Many of these will self-correct once educated.

Foolish - some might say stupid - they DO know, or have been informed of the truth and choose to ignore it. I think there is a high percentage of mis-matched drivers in this category. You can't tell them anything and they think they know better than the data. Scary and dangerous

This is why I wish that there were a more regulated, standardized requirement for the TV to fall within the legal parameters for the trailer. I further wish that RV dealers were held accountable for making sure the accepted safety regulations were met before allowing a trailer off the lot. There are already so many laws and regulations in an attempt to keep the roads safe for everyone. And yet people are allowed to connect anything they want behind anything they want and speed down the highways. There's a huge disconnect somewhere.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. There will always be 2 kinds of folks who drive mis-matched setups

Ignorant - Not a bad word...just means you don't know what you don't know. Their danger is proceeding without getting educated. But, they don't know and proceed off of gut thinking all is well. Many of these will self-correct once educated.

Foolish - some might say stupid - they DO know, or have been informed of the truth and choose to ignore it. I think there is a high percentage of mis-matched drivers in this category. You can't tell them anything and they think they know better than the data. Scary and dangerous

This is why I wish that there were a more regulated, standardized requirement for the TV to fall within the legal parameters for the trailer. I further wish that RV dealers were held accountable for making sure the accepted safety regulations were met before allowing a trailer off the lot. There are already so many laws and regulations in an attempt to keep the roads safe for everyone. And yet people are allowed to connect anything they want behind anything they want and speed down the highways. There's a huge disconnect somewhere.

Those that you label "Foolish" I prefer to label as ARROGANT. We've seen some come and go here and certain that we've all encountered them in person. In reference to the topic at hand, some will even brag about "running overweight " and getting away with it. It's the arrogant disregard for others that bothers me the most. If you don't respect or value your life and safety that your right, but heaven help you if you inflict damage to my family.

I apologize for the soap box speech, this type of attitude is very disturbing to me. JMHO, YMMV

[johnmyster]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The general rule for 5th wheel trailer pin weight is 23% of trailer gvw...

I don't want to rain on your dream but the Tundra is just not up to the task.

Our Cougar 30 RES scales right at 17% pin weight. i wish it was more, but that's with me loading as much heavy gear towards the nose as I can. EZ up is in the front garage. Jacks and tools are in the front. Emergency food and water is under the bed. Batteries, propane, and all. 17%. Our fresh tank is all the way at the back, so this number would actually go down if I carried fresh. Rules of thumb are great, except when they're not.

Prior owner pulled it with a 2nd gen Tundra 5.7 and was quite happy.

Even on our heaviest trips, the camper still has 1100 pounds of GVWR margin remaining. Not everybody packs to full capacity on every trip. OP might be like me.

EDIT - Our cougar is actually a 29 RES. (30' 6" OAL)

[LHaven]

The problem with attempts to reduce the pin weight by rear loading (which I realize is NOT what you personally are doing, but the results are the same) is that it increases trailer sway to dangerous levels. Trailers need that weight up front to maintain their dynamic stability.

The figures in this video are for bumper-pull tongue weight. The dynamics of fifth-wheels are different and they require even more tongue weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Dgxe584Ss

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

Our Cougar 30 RES scales right at 17% pin weight. i wish it was more, but that's with me loading as much heavy gear towards the nose as I can. EZ up is in the front garage. Jacks and tools are in the front. Emergency food and water is under the bed. Batteries, propane, and all. 17%. Our fresh tank is all the way at the back, so this number would actually go down if I carried fresh. Rules of thumb are great, except when they're not.

Prior owner pulled it with a 2nd gen Tundra 5.7 and was quite happy.

Even on our heaviest trips, the camper still has 1100 pounds of axle capacity remaining. Not everybody packs to full capacity on every trip. OP might be like me.

johnmyster, First welcome to the forum. Glad to have you join us...

Would you please confirm which trailer model you have and what year it is...

The only Cougar 30RES that I'm aware of is a 2012 travel trailer (not a fifth wheel). There is a 30RLS fifth wheel, but it is substantially heavier than what you posted... I'm trying to look up the specs for your trailer and simply can't find it. Thanks.

[johnmyster]

Originally Posted by LHaven

The problem with attempts to reduce the pin weight by rear loading (which I realize is NOT what you personally are doing, but the results are the same) is that it increases trailer sway to dangerous levels. Trailers need that weight up front to maintain their dynamic stability.

The figures in this video are for bumper-pull tongue weight. The dynamics of fifth-wheels are different and they require even more tongue weight.

I'm not attempting to reduce pin. The factory balance is what it is.

I've never experienced sway, so the requirement must not be absolute.

Even If I took our trailer to full GVWR by adding 1100# to the garage, I'd only be at 20%. I'd have to put 1000# under the bed to hit 23%.

[johnmyster]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

johnmyster, First welcome to the forum. Glad to have you join us...

Would you please confirm which trailer model you have and what year it is...

The only Cougar 30RES that I'm aware of is a 2012 travel trailer (not a fifth wheel). There is a 30RLS fifth wheel, but it is substantially heavier than what you posted... I'm trying to look up the specs for your trailer and simply can't find it. Thanks.

You're right, it's a 29RES.

[Dipstick]

Originally Posted by johnmyster

You're right, it's a 29RES.

Wonder ho that would do behind my old Ford 150?

[Dipstick]

I'm good to goes then.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Dipstick

I'm good to goes then.

Ahhh, NOPE, doesn't mean that at all. The lack of any response probably is more related to an "open ended question with not nearly enough information to even make a WAG at an answer.

The "old F150" you asked about could be anything from a 1975 F150 which was an optional HD version of the F100, with a 3 speed column shift and a 300 CID inline 6 all the way up to a current (last year's "Old F150") with a 3.5L EcoBoost, 10 speed transmission and a HD payload package and HD trailering package.

Obviously, some "old F150's" wouldn't even manage to carry the tongue weight, some wouldn't have the torque to get it rolling while some wouldn't break a sweat doing either.....

Not knowing what or how you define "Old F150" doesn't mean anything other than nobody responded to a question with no information upon which to base an answer.

[Dipstick]

Thought Fords were the cats meow. But its a mid 80s, got bigger tires & airbags. Lookin beter?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Dipstick

Thought Fords were the cats meow. But its a mid 80s, got bigger tires & airbags. Lookin beter?

Nope, it appears you're either trying to play "cat and mouse" or you are trolling the forum. If you have a "SPECIFIC" question, then give "SPECIFIC" facts. Generalities don't count, not even in horseshoes.

[jfk69]

The Ford 300 straight six was (is?) a hell of a motor. With that said, not the best tow vehicle without a full evaluation of the whole system.