Front end cap bubbles

[rixbullet]

I went out to wash my trailer and noticed large "bubbles" on front end near top.
Took it to my local rv repair, they suggested to contact Keystone. I did, then sent pictures of damage. Reply from Keystone;

"Thank you for the photos. They have been reviewed by our service department and they respectfully decline participation due to the time out of warranty and no prior history of this issue. Thank you for allowing us to review it."

It is a 2010 294 bhs Bullet. I don't think mine is the only one with this problem.

[JRTJH]

Post copies of those photos you sent to Keystone so we can see what you're talking about. Keep in mind that your RV is now 4 years old and almost everyone has a different type of use/storage/maintenance regimen. All of that plays into the durability of your RV's surface.

Anyway, photos would help.

[rixbullet]

pictures hope this works



http://flic.kr/p/gLvZFd
http://flic.kr/p/gLwYAz

[jmarchant]

I have a 2005 keystone laradeo. My front cap looks like yours, I took it to an r.v. repair guy who ilike, he said it was water getting in between the fiberglass and the cardboard undernieth. I am tring to run it through my insurance. we will see what happens. it is an expencive fix.

[fred1609]

Would an extended warranty cover this.....that doesn't look to good.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by fred1609

Would an extended warranty cover this.....that doesn't look to good.

I think if one were to read the many exclusions found in extended warranties, you would find that any damage caused by leakage is not covered. It would be extremely difficult to prove that this damage was not caused by the failure of the owner to carry out regular inspection and maintenance and that it was instead caused by a manufacturer's defect.

[04z71]

So i guess dont get a trailer with a front cap style

[Bowti]

Originally Posted by Festus2

I think if one were to read the many exclusions found in extended warranties, you would find that any damage caused by leakage is not covered. It would be extremely difficult to prove that this damage was not caused by the failure of the owner to carry out regular inspection and maintenance and that it was instead caused by a manufacturer's defect.

You know I don't post very often, but statements like this get to me. How is it we pay good money for our units and there can't be any expectation for them to last more than 3 years?

Why do you defend the manufacturers to the point it is our fault they don't give us better products?

Regular inspection should not be necessary to prevent our unites from this kind leaking and cause this kind of damage

There has to be some kind of expectation for our units to last longer than this. Can you imagine a boating manufacturer telling you the reason your boat sank is because you didn't forsee that the hull was going to open up and let water in. This like the manufacturer telling you that all our hulls open up and your boat with sink if you don't expect them.


In other words, there should be some kind of expectation that the manufacturing process takes into fact that these things bounce down the road and they need to hold up for more than 3 yrs.

[Javi]

I have an extended warranty and I get the roof inspected every 6 months by an authorized service center, cost me $25 if he doesn't need to use any caulking. Last time it cost me $38.75 , but I keep all my receipts and his written inspection forms in my files. Seems like good insurance to me.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Bowti

You know I don't post very often, but statements like this get to me. How is it we pay good money for our units and there can't be any expectation for them to last more than 3 years?

Why do you defend the manufacturers to the point it is our fault they don't give us better products?

Regular inspection should not be necessary to prevent our unites from this kind leaking and cause this kind of damage

There has to be some kind of expectation for our units to last longer than this. Can you imagine a boating manufacturer telling you the reason your boat sank is because you didn't forsee that the hull was going to open up and let water in. This like the manufacturer telling you that all our hulls open up and your boat with sink if you don't expect them.


In other words, there should be some kind of expectation that the manufacturing process takes into fact that these things bounce down the road and they need to hold up for more than 3 yrs.

Bowti -

Firstly, it was not my intent to place any blame on the OP for the bubbles on his front cap. I was responding to the post which asked whether or not an extended warranty would cover the cost of repair and any damage. In my response, I indicated that, in almost all cases, leaks and damage caused by them are not covered. Leaks in RV's are not uncommon and it is clearly stated in the Keystone owner's manual, that it is the owner's responsibility and duty to carry out regular, routine maintenance of your RV. Should a leak occur, it is up to you to prove that you have been diligent in the proper, regular maintenance. This includes inspecting your RV for areas that are caulked to ensure that the caulking is not cracked, loose or otherwise needing removal and reapplication or simply adding more sealant or caulking.

Secondly, I am not saying it is "our fault" for a poorly-manufactured product. Realize that RV's come off an assembly line and they do and will have defects. It is up to us, as owners, to carry out a thorough pre-delivery inspection and catch as many of those defects as possible and get them fixed before you take it home. Some of these imperfections are minor and some aren't. Nevertheless, the owner just can't assume that it is free of defects and ignore it for "x" years hoping that nothing will or should go wrong.


Thirdly, if the owner is diligent and ensures that regular inspections and maintenance are carried out, an RV should last well beyond 3 years. The fact that they do "bounce down the road" only emphasizes the necessity for the owner to be on top of things - tightening screws and water line connections that work loose for example. Regular inspection is absolutely necessary.

I think all larger boat owners, including myself, would agree that it is part of the routine to have it hauled out of the water every 1-2 years and have the hull/bottom inspected, repainted, zincs replaced and so on. I was never anticipating the hull to separate and let the sea come pouring in but I did make sure that my boat was looked after which included regular inspections and maintenance. The process is not any different with an RV - inspect and maintain.

Finally, I am not defending Keystone but simply pointing out that we, as owners, have a responsibility to inspect and maintain our RV's to ensure that they will "hold up for more than 3 years".

[billb800si]

Originally Posted by Bowti

You know I don't post very often, but statements like this get to me. How is it we pay good money for our units and there can't be any expectation for them to last more than 3 years? Why do you defend the manufacturers to the point it is our fault they don't give us better products?
Regular inspection should not be necessary to prevent our unites from this kind leaking and cause this kind of damage.

=====================

Simple: if you don't perform basic maintenance then it's your fault. You buy a new car. You don't change the oil for three years and then you want the manufacturer to fix the engine????

These RV's are bouncing down the rotten roads in America and yes we can get some cracks in them. Inspect & Re-caulk where necessary.

And don't forget to check the air pressure in your tires- biggest reason we have tire failure is due to under inflation..
Happy trails,

[rixbullet]

After Keystone would not help, I went to my local RV service. After tear down, there was not any water damage. The shop told me Keystone is the only company that doesn't use wood behind the front cap. Some type of cardboard instead. They see a lot of the same problem on Keystone products.

[Bowti]

Originally Posted by rixbullet

After Keystone would not help, I went to my local RV service. After tear down, there was not any water damage. The shop told me Keystone is the only company that doesn't use wood behind the front cap. Some type of cardboard instead. They see a lot of the same problem on Keystone products.

Rix, I'm glad you were able to get to the bottom of things.

I'm sorry if my post stepped on anyone's toes.

All I was trying to say was, why do we seem to have such low expectations of our RV manufacturers? Why are we so quick to assume someone hasn't performed regular maintenance?

As far as the, "Bouncing down the road goes", Shouldn't the manufactures know that we move our unites, and address it in their manufacturing process like other vehicle company's do.

I used the example of the boating industry, because anyone who has ever ridden in a high horsepower boat in ruff sea conditions, know the boats will take more abuse than us humans can put up with.

The same goes for the off road recreation industry. These machines can take unbelievable abuse, way,way, beyond their intended use, and still hold up.

I am not saying our unites should be able to take this kind of abuse, but I am saying they should be able to stand up to their intended use,"bouncing down the road".

Also, many (not all) of the problems posted here have nothing to do with maintenance. I think we could all make a long list.

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone, this is just my view after some 55 years of being a gear head.

[rixbullet]

You're right, as costly as they are you would think these units could withstand some usage.

[Beachnut]

Originally Posted by rixbullet

After Keystone would not help, I went to my local RV service. After tear down, there was not any water damage. The shop told me Keystone is the only company that doesn't use wood behind the front cap. Some type of cardboard instead. They see a lot of the same problem on Keystone products.

Glad you were able to get it fixed. (I would have asked the repair guy to photograph everything, showing NO water damage, and re-submit it to Keystone). Seeing so many of us have that same type of front cap, can you share what exactly they did to fix it? (Did they remove the whole front cap, or localized fix?) If you do not mind sharing,, how much did the fix cost? Was it done by a Keystone dealer, or other repair center? Which repair center, and where, just in case someone else wants to go to the same shop. (Thank you for any answers).

I too agree that after paying near $25K for a new trailer, you would expect it to last,, for years. I wash and wax mine 1 to 2 times a year with marine wax, yet near every decal is pealing off from sun exposure / defective decals. Read on forums to NEVER use a RV cover due to front cap de- lamination problems such as this. It seems sad, that I bought a fiberglass siding trailer as I THOUGHT it was more durable, and would last longer than metal siding, yet, this... It seriously has you concerned about just how long should you hang on to the trailer, before selling it out of fear of it having problems like this. Seriously makes you think twice about buying another "new" trailer, rather than buying one that is 3-4 years old, and you can see if it was built well enough, with good enough materials,, to last past that. I guess we are all suppose to have monster RV garages to park them in, so they WILL last...

[billb800si]

Originally Posted by rixbullet

After Keystone would not help, I went to my local RV service. After tear down, there was not any water damage. The shop told me Keystone is the only company that doesn't use wood behind the front cap. Some type of cardboard instead. They see a lot of the same problem on Keystone products.

=====================
For what it's worth, here's the Cougar High Country construction spec's I received directly from Keystone BEFORE we purchased our new Cougar.
--------------------
Cougar High Country construction:
Jason Gill [email protected]
Thu 5/9/2013 6:35 PM

Below is information on the Cougar High Country Construction

1. Roof:
a) Nylon reinforced molded composite arched roof trusses 16” on center.
b) R-14 battan insulation
c) 3/8” plywood roof decking
d) Dicor rubber roof system

2. Sidewalls
a) 1 ½” tubular aluminum framed- double welded
b) 1/8” luan interior wall board
c) 1 ½” R-9 Block foam insulation
d) 1/8” exterior luan sub straight
e) 1/8” Premium Medallion high gloss fiberglass

3. Front Wall
A) 1 ½” Tubular aluminum framed welded wall
B) R-14 Battan insulation
C) Gel coat fiberglass Front Cap

4. Rear wall & Side of Slide Walls
a) 1 ½” tubular framed welded wall
b) R-14 battan insulation
c) 1/8” luan sub straight
d) 1/8” High Gloss Medallion high gloos fiberglass

5. Floor:
a) 1 ½” tubular aluminum framed- double welded
b) 1/8” luan interior wall board
c) 1 ½” R-9 Block foam insulation
d) 1/8” exterior luan sub straight
e) 1/8” Premium Medallion high gloss fiberglass

6. Slide out floors:
a) R-15 astro-foil sheet insulated

7. Zero degree tested & Rated Underbelly:
a) ¼” Corruagted plastic covered underbelly
b) Insulated with R-15 Astro Foil Sheet

8. Slide System:
a) Norco Accuslide

9. Exterior Electric Jacks & Remote
a) Lippert

10. Suspension System:
a) Mor Ryde CRE 3000

11. Entrance Door & Windows
a) Lippert (Kinro)

Thank you,

Jason Gill
Cougar - DSM

[rixbullet]

The unit is still in shop, visited it couple of days ago. The whole front cap is being replaced. I felt the inner cardboard which is crumbling. The shop is replacing the cardboard with wood as the sides have. Sundown rv in Merced. Great people. I requested no new graphics as the old ones are shrunk and peeling,(not interested in free advertising either). Not sure on price yet, 2500 to 4000 depending on materials and labor?

[Bowti]

Originally Posted by rixbullet

The unit is still in shop, visited it couple of days ago. The whole front cap is being replaced. I felt the inner cardboard which is crumbling. The shop is replacing the cardboard with wood as the sides have. Sundown rv in Merced. Great people. I requested no new graphics as the old ones are shrunk and peeling,(not interested in free advertising either). Not sure on price yet, 2500 to 4000 depending on materials and labor?

Sounds like you have the right people working on it, but dam, $2500 to $4000.

I am now waiting for someone to jump in here now to defend the company by telling you, you used the wrong type of wax, or maybe you waxed it too often or maybe not enough. Hell, there has got to be a way this is your fault.

Again sorry for the rant, I hope someone can relate.

[Tinbender]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Bill-
Both the floor and sidewall specs appear to be the same. The specs for the floor (item #5) don't look right........?????

I don't know about the "High Country" but I can say for sure on the 2013 Cougar 24RKS. I just finished installing an additional 20 amp inlet service and had to drill the exterior wall and floor both. The wall is 1/8 ply with about 1/32 inch of fiberglass on the outside and 1/8 ply covered with vinyl wall covering on the inside. These two layers sandwich a piece of 1" bead board foam for a total wall thickness of approx. 1-5/16 inches. Beadboard for craps sake not even extruded foam that has just a little strength to it.

The floor is of the same construction except it uses 2" beadboard and vinyl floor covering instead of wall covering.

Sure makes a guy wonder what the heck is holding the roof up, I mean how stout can the wall studs be???

Later
Tinbender

[fla-gypsy]

That is caused by water intrusion from a lack of maintenance of the lap sealant and will never be covered by any warranty regardless of what anyone thinks should be the durability of a RV. It is a required maintenance item clearly spelled out in every owners manual. As far as the repair facility telling you there is no sign of water damage; what benefit to them is there in getting mixed up in a squabble between you and Keystone? Frequent inspection and repairs as needed will make a trailer last a long time. Mine is 8+ years old and has required no major repairs due to construction or materials.