Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Repairs & Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-10-2019, 07:31 PM   #1
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Doing Serious Brake upgrade 2013 Alpine 3555RL Drum/Disc

I was talking to a friend that told me if I were going to do any Mountain traveling Since I pull with a Gas 3500 DWD I should replace my Drum brakes with Disc. He told me that he had it done and it cost him about 3k. I am a decent car/truck mechanic and think this could be done myself for a fraction of the cost. Has anyone done this upgrade on a 5'er

Thanks

Keith
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 07:57 PM   #2
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
We had the upgrade done to our rig in June and it works great. The upgrade was done by Performance Trailer Braking and done at the RV park we were at. The cost of parts, which included the Timken bearing upgrade was a little over $2200. Went with 7K/8K rotors with the Timken bearings, Kodiak calipers, and the Brakerite EHD electric over hydraulic actuator. The system was installed by one of their installers which usually charges $1000 for the install plus fluids and grease.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 08:31 AM   #3
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
We had the upgrade done to our rig in June and it works great. The upgrade was done by Performance Trailer Braking and done at the RV park we were at. The cost of parts, which included the Timken bearing upgrade was a little over $2200. Went with 7K/8K rotors with the Timken bearings, Kodiak calipers, and the Brakerite EHD electric over hydraulic actuator. The system was installed by one of their installers which usually charges $1000 for the install plus fluids and grease.
Thanks So Much,

So in your opinion this is a big job that one should hire out? Also as I eluded to I do have some concern about being able to safely navigate the Mountains since I tow with a Gas rig with no Engine brake. Do you notice a big difference with the upgrade? May I ask about your tow vehicle, as well as if gas have you navigated mountain passes?

Thanks Again
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:05 AM   #4
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrtrader View Post
I was talking to a friend that told me if I were going to do any Mountain traveling Since I pull with a Gas 3500 DWD I should replace my Drum brakes with Disc. He told me that he had it done and it cost him about 3k. I am a decent car/truck mechanic and think this could be done myself for a fraction of the cost. Has anyone done this upgrade on a 5'er

Thanks

Keith
Keith that's a pretty broad statement (any mountain traveling) without having any information on what mountains and how often. If you live where you have to cross steep mountains with 8% grades and sharp turns/switchbacks is not the same as passing over a mountain on 4 lane highways with 4% grades and gentle curves once a year. How long are planning on keeping the trailer. The shorter the time the less ROI (return on investment).

There are several very good reasons in my view for changing over to disks brakes. Many folks that travel great distances each year will do the conversion not only for the better braking potential but also as a maintenance advantage for ease of pad replacement. I have yet to read anyone that's made the conversion say it wasn't a good choice but you know that a lot of folks wouldn't admit to making a mistake and spending money unnecessarily.

The question you have to ask yourself, and only you can answer, is it worth the money? We don't know your financial situation so that's a big factor in the recommendation. The drum brakes will stop the trailer. Are disk better? Absolutely. But, for the cost of the conversion you can pay for several full brake jobs.

It's real easy for us to spend your money. Only you know if it's it worth it. What I'd suggest is to take pen and paper and make a ledger. Advantages on one side, disadvantages on the other side and compare.

Good luck on your decision and let us know which way you take it and your opinion on the decision after you use a while if you make the upgrade.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:28 AM   #5
MarkEHansen
Senior Member
 
MarkEHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,005
Also, I'm not sure any trailer requires disc brakes to travel down a hill. You can always take that down grade slower so less braking is required. This is what I always did (in previous rigs - heavy trailer and no exhaust brake).

It just requires a little healthy respect. Go try it before you do the upgrade and see how it feels. A laser-guided thermometer would be a good thing to have along - so you can stop and measure how hot your brake drums are - like this: https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Ther.../dp/B002OD0NCG

Good luck.
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL - "Big Bertha"
2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD 6.6L Duramax TD, CC, 4WD, DRW - "Mr. Beefy"
MarkEHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:29 AM   #6
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Keith that's a pretty broad statement (any mountain traveling) without having any information on what mountains and how often. If you live where you have to cross steep mountains with 8% grades and sharp turns/switchbacks is not the same as passing over a mountain on 4 lane highways with 4% grades and gentle curves once a year. How long are planning on keeping the trailer. The shorter the time the less ROI (return on investment).

There are several very good reasons in my view for changing over to disks brakes. Many folks that travel great distances each year will do the conversion not only for the better braking potential but also as a maintenance advantage for ease of pad replacement. I have yet to read anyone that's made the conversion say it wasn't a good choice but you know that a lot of folks wouldn't admit to making a mistake and spending money unnecessarily.

The question you have to ask yourself, and only you can answer, is it worth the money? We don't know your financial situation so that's a big factor in the recommendation. The drum brakes will stop the trailer. Are disk better? Absolutely. But, for the cost of the conversion you can pay for several full brake jobs.

It's real easy for us to spend your money. Only you know if it's it worth it. What I'd suggest is to take pen and paper and make a ledger. Advantages on one side, disadvantages on the other side and compare.

Good luck on your decision and let us know which way you take it and your opinion on the decision after you use a while if you make the upgrade.
Thanks

And yes more information would be better... Sorry. We are about to go full time and will occasional cross mountain ranges. Going south through Tenn, NC, and out west through AZ, CO.... Money is a slight issue sadly but so is Safety. Never Towing through the mountains (Occasionally) did not concern me until a friend who has a rig similar to mine told me that he would be scared to death dropping off into a steep grade in a Gas tow Vehicle. As he would not consider it with a Gas Rig... Especially without Disc Brakes. The Brake changes are not of much concern as I have no doubt I could do them without much problem. Looking back I wish now I'd bought a Diesel but it is what it is and I am not willing to take the loss involved to make the switch. A simpler question might be I'm worrying to much just take your time and use your gears.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:32 AM   #7
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
Also, I'm not sure any trailer requires disc brakes to travel down a hill. You can always take that down grade slower so less braking is required. This is what I always did (in previous rigs - heavy trailer and no exhaust brake).

It just requires a little healthy respect. Go try it before you do the upgrade and see how it feels. A laser-guided thermometer would be a good thing to have along - so you can stop and measure how hot your brake drums are - like this: https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Ther.../dp/B002OD0NCG

Good luck.
Ahhh,

Thanks Mark... That is what I was thinking before this friend freaked me out.
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:32 AM   #8
MarkEHansen
Senior Member
 
MarkEHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,005
Yes, I think your friend may be overstating things a bit. Just slow down and keep an eye on the brake temps. I would go try it so you can see for yourself.
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL - "Big Bertha"
2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD 6.6L Duramax TD, CC, 4WD, DRW - "Mr. Beefy"
MarkEHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:40 AM   #9
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
Yes, I think your friend may be overstating things a bit. Just slow down and keep an eye on the brake temps. I would go try it so you can see for yourself.
Thanks...

Makes me feel much better, I guess he painted this scene of me "Dropping Over" for a lack of better turn that I might be in a point of no return. I know it sounds silly to seasoned travelers.... When you used a Gas Rig,... You just stayed geared down and used your brakes moderately?

Keith
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:45 AM   #10
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,599
I would agree with Mark. While just upgrading to discs is a good thing it also costs $$$. How long you keep the trailer, how many times/much of the time you will be on steep grades has to factor in as well.

My truck is gas but my trailer is lighter than yours (10k gvw). I have no issues in the mountains, BUT....

You have to keep the tranny in a lower gear and keep a slower speed. DO NOT let the truck build up a lot of speed then try to haul it down. If the trans is holding you properly you should be able to just hit the brakes for a bit every now and then. Don't just put your foot on the brakes and ride them down the mountain as so many I've seen. You will end up somewhere mid trip on the side of the road with smoking brakes.

Depending on where you go in the locations you mentioned you could be on long, gradual, sweeping inclines or narrow twisties with an 8% grade so you will need to know your specific route to determine the pucker factor.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 09:49 AM   #11
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I would agree with Mark. While just upgrading to discs is a good thing it also costs $$$. How long you keep the trailer, how many times/much of the time you will be on steep grades has to factor in as well.

My truck is gas but my trailer is lighter than yours (10k gvw). I have no issues in the mountains, BUT....

You have to keep the tranny in a lower gear and keep a slower speed. DO NOT let the truck build up a lot of speed then try to haul it down. If the trans is holding you properly you should be able to just hit the brakes for a bit every now and then. Don't just put your foot on the brakes and ride them down the mountain as so many I've seen. You will end up somewhere mid trip on the side of the road with smoking brakes.

Depending on where you go in the locations you mentioned you could be on long, gradual, sweeping inclines or narrow twisties with an 8% grade so you will need to know your specific route to determine the pucker factor.
Thanks SD,

I guess the fear I had was an uncontrol able decline. And wondering if taking one's time in a lower gear would be good enough. I'm of average intelligence... Not like a few of the Nutz we see running down the roads. so no hurry here for sure.

Can't thank all the members comments enough!!
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 10:46 AM   #12
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
Fortunately, we have a 2012 Chevy diesel with the exhaust brake. The disc brake were not intended so much for mountains but more for flat driving with idiots pulling in front and stopping, and other emergency stopping needs. On the PTB site, there is a story about a Canadian testing that calculated the trailer disc brakes alone could stop the combination 150 ft shorter than the same rig with drum brakes on the trailer using the truck and trailer brakes together. I don’t see the mechanical part of the install being too difficult, but the brake plumbing and the electrical connections can be a bit tricky. I figured the install labor cost was well worth it for me, and the stopping ability is amazing. I had our Chevy brake controller set at 9.5 with the drums and now with the discs, it’s set at 4, and the truck and trailer feels like one unit now when braking.
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 01:07 PM   #13
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrtrader View Post
Thanks SD,

I guess the fear I had was an uncontrol able decline. And wondering if taking one's time in a lower gear would be good enough. I'm of average intelligence... Not like a few of the Nutz we see running down the roads. so no hurry here for sure.

Can't thank all the members comments enough!!
In my opinion the "runaway truck" scenario has 2 causes. 1. mechanical failure which typically can be avoided with proper maintenance and 2. Driver error.

If you think about it the mountains have been there longer than disk brakes (even on cars) or diesel powered trucks with jake brakes (compression braking) have been around. When traversing a steep downhill grade any system will fail if common sense isn't used. Some folks become over confident when they can "stop on a dime" or when they think "no snow can stop them because they have 4wd". Those are usually the first ones in the ditch.

If spending that amount of money isn't a "disposable income" funding then I would give it a try and see how confident or uncomfortable you are with the rig and proceed with the "real world" experience and not some anecdotal remark.
JMHO
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #14
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
For mountain driving, I was taught that if you had to be in, say second gear going up, then you should be in second gear going down. With a gas engine you can use it to control your descent speed, as long as you are in a lower gear. That was the problem with Diesel engines, they can’t naturally hold back like a gas engine can, so Jake brakes were developed for the bigger trucks and finally exhaust brakes are being installed in the smaller diesel trucks we use. Regardless of what engine you have, instead of riding your brakes going down hill, you should firmly apply them to get slowed down, then come off the brakes so they can cool, hopefully you are in a low enough gear to not speed up too much, then again apply the brakes firmly, and continue this cycle as you descend. You must protect your brakes because you have nothing else to stop you if they fail.
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 04:09 PM   #15
flrtrader
Member
 
flrtrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dayton
Posts: 52
Great info,… And I really can't thank you guy's enough.
flrtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 07:13 PM   #16
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
Fortunately, we have a 2012 Chevy diesel with the exhaust brake. The disc brake were not intended so much for mountains but more for flat driving with idiots pulling in front and stopping, and other emergency stopping needs. On the PTB site, there is a story about a Canadian testing that calculated the trailer disc brakes alone could stop the combination 150 ft shorter than the same rig with drum brakes on the trailer using the truck and trailer brakes together. I don’t see the mechanical part of the install being too difficult, but the brake plumbing and the electrical connections can be a bit tricky. I figured the install labor cost was well worth it for me, and the stopping ability is amazing. I had our Chevy brake controller set at 9.5 with the drums and now with the discs, it’s set at 4, and the truck and trailer feels like one unit now when braking.
In town stop/go driving was the biggest noticable difference to me with disc brakes.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 06:42 AM   #17
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
I tow exclusively in Mtn terra8n and have for the last 40 years... I see no reason to spend 3K for enhanced trailer brakes unless you got cash to burn.. I tow with a diesel but no exhaust brake.. 2007 Duramax...

Quite frankly the parts for an aftermarket upgrade for the trailer brakes might be a real issue to find if you had a part failure out on the road..

Conversely the conventional electromagnet brakes do a fine job and a pretty much trouble free with proper annual routine inspection and maintenance..

Also the parts for trailer electromagnet brake system are pretty much available anywhere...

My money will stay in my pocket .... factory brakes on my Alpine are 7 years old now and they are not worn out yet..

And I’ve been down some awesome 8% and 10 % grades over in Montana and a few here in Idaho...
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 08:24 AM   #18
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I tow exclusively in Mtn terra8n and have for the last 40 years... I see no reason to spend 3K for enhanced trailer brakes unless you got cash to burn.. I tow with a diesel but no exhaust brake.. 2007 Duramax...

Quite frankly the parts for an aftermarket upgrade for the trailer brakes might be a real issue to find if you had a part failure out on the road..

Conversely the conventional electromagnet brakes do a fine job and a pretty much trouble free with proper annual routine inspection and maintenance..

Also the parts for trailer electromagnet brake system are pretty much available anywhere...

My money will stay in my pocket .... factory brakes on my Alpine are 7 years old now and they are not worn out yet..

And I’ve been down some awesome 8% and 10 % grades over in Montana and a few here in Idaho...
Actually the disc brakes are GM calipers, pads & rotors made to fit RV axles so replacement parts are easily found at most any auto parts store.
Performance Trailer Braking (PTB) that installed mine gave a list of part numbers for everything from pads to bearings, all found at any parts store.
The only specialized part was a module at the pin box on some GM trucks so that the truck would recognize the new system & show the trailer was connected.
I was of the same mind set as you are that drum brakes were good if properly maintained and adjusted, but until you've towed with disc brakes you'd see there is a night/day difference between them, the truck & trailer stop as one with the disc.
My 5er had somewhere between 50-60k miles with the brakes worn needing replaced, 4 brake assemblies (easiest, cheapest way to replace brakes) were $125+/- each + bearings/races so a brake job was easily $600 to $800+ so it was a good time to upgrade.
Mine were $1700 for all parts necessary for the install from & $1000 installation by PTB at the RV park we were staying for the winter. I feel I could've done the install in a couple of days if at home, but with not all my tools available, laying in the gravel didn't sound very exciting, so had them do it which only took 4 hours, glad they did it.
I also received $200 referral from them as the folks parked on either side of me had theirs done after watching them install mine @ $100 each referral bonus.
IMHO best upgrade for the $$ of any I did to my 5er.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 04:31 PM   #19
skids
Senior Member
 
skids's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Florissant
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
I also received $200 referral from them as the folks parked on either side of me had theirs done after watching them install mine @ $100 each referral bonus.
IMHO best upgrade for the $$ of any I did to my 5er.
That is great!
__________________
Skids
2019 Bullet 248RKS
skids is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 10:52 AM   #20
rafael&cary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 6
I did mine bought parts from etrailer ran me around $ 1350 not that hard to do email me if you still would like to do them I’ll send you step by step I love them breaking is night and day from drum
rafael&cary is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alpine, upgrade

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.