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Old 12-10-2019, 02:27 PM   #1
markcee
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Confused by the Numbers

Hello all,

New member to the forum. I am trading in my class C for a 2020 Keystone 1/2 ton travel trailer, model 29RLKWE. The trailer has a shipping weight of 7500 lbs and a max weight carrying capacity of 2000 lbs and a hitch weight of of 810 lbs. I am getting nervous about my brand new tow vehicle as I am getting the impression the '1/2 ton' naming convention is a bit of a marketing ploy. I am also confused by the various weight specs, for both truck and trailer, as it seems every site I visit, brochure I browse and info I get from salesmen does nothing more than make things more confusing.

I am hoping someone can solve the mystery of if my tow vehicle is sufficient. There will only be two average sized adults using the trailer/traveling in the tow vehicle, along with two small (20 lbs) dogs and what I would consider an average amount of cargo....no kayaks, motorbikes etc.

My tow vehicle is a 2019 Ford F-150, Super Crew 4x4 with the 3.5 Ecoboost, 3.55 gears and the Max Trailer Tow package. If I'm reading the Ford manual chart correctly, I believe my vehicle's GCWR is 17,100 lbs.

I included pics of the door stickers as well as the underside of the hitch. If it matters, I will also be adding an Equalizer E4.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Mark
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:52 PM   #2
sourdough
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I will just post a couple of observations;

Based on your numbers (Keystone does not post the specs for this unit) it is a 9500 lb. trailer. From my experience that is too much for any 1/2 ton regardless of engine etc. It is also over 33' long which is a lot for a 1/2 ton suspension to try to control.

With a 9500 lb. gvw and a 13% tongue weight you're looking at 1235 coming off that 1873 lb. payload so figure about 600 lbs. left. Figure 350 for adults, 50 for dogs and 110 for hitch = 510 lbs. Now you're left with 90 lbs. for everything else. Optimally you will leave a 10-15% cushion between your actual weights and the posted weight limits. You won't be able to do that even if you leave pups and wife behind and carry nothing else.

Weights work like this for truck, car, trailer;

Actual weight
Gvwr - gross vehicle weight rating - the max it can weigh period
Gawr - gross axle weight rating. This is for front and rear. The most weight
the axle can carry and has to be determined by a scale.
Payload/carrying capacity - the amount of weight you can put into it.
GCVWR - this is the maximum weight the truck and trailer can weigh
together.
Max towing capacity - sales hype from manufacturers and is meaningless.
Salesmen - Generally lying if their mouth is moving and know zero
about towing.
Half Ton Towable - A joke that gets way too many folks into trouble.

If you buy the trailer with that truck it will not be the best towing experience if it doesn't get downright dangerous. If you have in fact made the deal please respond because there are some mods you need to make to your new truck to help it tow the trailer.
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:44 PM   #3
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Yep....it’s a done deal....at least the trailer will be on Saturday. The truck is already sitting in the garage.

Thanks for replying.
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:44 PM   #4
77cruiser
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I could never imagine pulling a trailer over about 2500 lbs. with a Echo-boast.
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:51 PM   #5
sourdough
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Originally Posted by markcee View Post
Yep....it’s a done deal....at least the trailer will be on Saturday. The truck is already sitting in the garage.

Thanks for replying.

And there you are. Same spot many, many folks have been in. At least your not trying to tow an Airstream with a Prius.

I and many others have tried to do what you are about to embark on without great success. I did so knowingly thinking I "knew" better...wrong - with 2 trucks. Good thing is you don't have 4 kids that you are trying to placate and take anything/everything to keep everyone happy....and tow overweight.

Some ideas;

> Pack light in the truck and trailer. You WILL have to leave things behind you want to take.

> Put LT tires on the truck. Much stiffer and resist the tendency of the trailer to be able to push the rear of the truck around.

> Upgrade to HD shocks; Bilstein IMO.

> Install airbags on the truck. Not to improve payload because they don't but they will "stiffen" the rear of the 1/2 ton to resist sway forces.

Hate to do that to a new truck? Yep, so did I. But trying to tow with a truck not up to the task is not fun. If you've never done it before, you may think your experience is normal....it won't be. I'm wishing you luck and let us know. If you have any further questions please post; we have a great membership willing to share their thoughts and experiences.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #6
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Thanks for the helpful info sourdough. I really appreciate the insight and will keep you posted.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #7
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On the way home go to the nearest CAT scales and get the weights of you set up. This weigh in will be the BEST your weight will ever be. I will bet you will be over your trucks ratings in a couple of categories. It will only get worse as you add tools, clothes, hoses ect.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77cruiser View Post
I could never imagine pulling a trailer over about 2500 lbs. with a Echo-boast.
Thanks for the valuable input.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:20 PM   #9
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markcee; one thing I did not include that is a must IMO is tools. You MUST have them to be somewhat self sufficient while traveling. I carry a lot and I think most do but you need to figure at least 100lbs. for them.
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:02 PM   #10
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markcee,
You are smart to come to this site and ask the right questions. Posting your door sticker and numbers got you ahead of the curve for "solving the mystery"if your tow vehicle is sufficient. That's the good news.
The bad news is your trailer is going to be too heavy for your truck after you load it completely. More truck than trailer always wins in this scenario.
You are not the first and will not be the last to come on this site hoping for an answer that makes it easy and may justify your TV/RV combination. I did the same thing and was thoroughly educated (by sourdough,JRTJH,notanlines, and others) as to the correct equipment for the job. I ended up trading my F250 gasser for the diesel I have now.
You know your options. Adding more equipment to your F-150 does not change the number on the door sticker. Maybe at your PDI Saturday you can just refuse to accept the trailer and consider another model. The salesman got a sale and that's all he cares about. I do not think you would be the first to reconsider your purchase.
If you are completely sold on the trailer then a visit to a truck dealership most likely should be in your future.
Sorry man, I know how you feel.
RMc
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:05 AM   #11
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35 PSI tires sure sound like car tires. That might be an issue if you move forward and give your current truck a shot. Best to get some truck tires on that TV of yours.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:50 AM   #12
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So now I'm confused.
We do the math and this guy has less than 100 lbs. for tools,groceries,clothes.dog food ect..and in the end he will be overweight.
Then we tell him to beef up the TV with shocks,air bags and tires and he will be OK.
?????
Just hope the OP keeps that rig in front of me on a long steep downhill grade.
RMc
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:07 AM   #13
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I'm inclined to go along with pretty much everything that has been said so far, and find Laredo's last post the most interesting. OP is absolutely at the very max with this unit, probably not able to financially swap trucks, and not wanting to change his mind about the trailer. I don't mind recommending 'putting lipstick on this pig' as long as the OP realizes how stretched his situation actually is. LT tires at a bare minimum, don't even pull it home on 35 PSI.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77cruiser View Post
I could never imagine pulling a trailer over about 2500 lbs. with a Echo-boast.
Power is not the OPs problem, a 3.5 EB has plenty of power, his issue is the 1,873# payload and P rated tires.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:33 AM   #15
sourdough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger View Post
So now I'm confused.
We do the math and this guy has less than 100 lbs. for tools,groceries,clothes.dog food ect..and in the end he will be overweight.
Then we tell him to beef up the TV with shocks,air bags and tires and he will be OK.
?????
Just hope the OP keeps that rig in front of me on a long steep downhill grade.
RMc

In post 3 the OP said the truck and trailer were a "done deal" and it is a new truck and trailer. In post 2 I said the 1/2 ton wasn't big enough for that trailer but, if it is what it is, then post back and we could try to help. Then comes the "lipstick on the pig"; ie; mods that need to be made to a marginal vehicle to make it as good as it can be.

Since the OP was stuck with his combo I didn't think it right to just say "you need a bigger truck....bye". Since he is going to be towing with that combo anyway it seems prudent to me to help him, and others, by sharing some advice that will make the experience safer. BTDT. Hopefully that clears up the confusion.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:54 AM   #16
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sourdough, notanlines,weirdgeorge,
I have relied on your experience in the past and took your advice to upgrade my TV. For that,thank you.
You all have the right bless this operation and I have the right not to. 33 foot of trailer and close to 10,000 lbs. is too much for an F150/1500 TV.
"On the fence" is no way to operate. IMHO
If the OP is going to the "expense" of the listed upgrades,shocks,tires and air bags, just take that cash and use it for a down payment on a bigger truck. Noting that all of these items are diminishing that already borderline payload.
I still think the OP can work with the dealer to change his purchase (if he so desires) because he has not "accepted" the present trailer. I'm no RV dealer lawyer but there must be some consumer laws in the OPs favor,especially since the unit has not left the lot. Maybe?
You guy's have been the greatest asset to my RV knowledge. I would expect you to be able to handle a difference of opinion.
RMc
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:12 AM   #17
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Laredo,

Difference of opinions is fine; that's pretty much what is done on the forum. And yes, I don't think the truck is up to the task (I'm 99% sure having done it before), but, like I said, if the OP is stuck with the combo (what I got from the conversation) and is going to tow with it regardless, then it doesn't hurt to try to help. NOT condoning being overweight or using too small a truck; just trying to offer some assistance vs reinforcing the stereotype of "you need an HD truck and we won't talk to you until you have one". That is done quite often on the forum.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:21 AM   #18
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For the OP here's the "takeaway" as I see it, next time ask these questions BEFORE you sign the dotted line. Most of us here have "been there done that got the T shirt". Now you get your T shirt and have to deal with the reality of actually towing your "1/2 ton towable" with a "typical" 1/2 ton truck.

I agree with Danny's post #5 but would just add to first load it up and hit the scales first thing. That way you know where you stand and how much "stuff" you have to leave behind.

Pay close attention to what you put in the trailer AFTER that initial weigh in. It's like being on a diet, one cookie at 100 cal. isn't too bad but eat a dozen.... It's natural as you go along with your new travels to think "gee, the kids would really enjoy a bean bag game, it's only 10 lbs." Then the wife decides she'd like an iron cookware set and it's "only 20 lbs". Meanwhile you haven't removed anything so the weight starts to add up quickly.


Check your weight at the scales after you use the rig for a couple of months and you'll KNOW how much has been added. Be very cognizant of how you are loading the trailer. Many folks make the mistake of thinking "well I'll offset the tongue by loading stuff in the back of the camper. This will cause serious sway issues. When I was in this situation I bought a Sherline Trailer Tongue scale, it came with 2 gauges, one for below 1K and one for over 1K weight. It's not cheap (around $125) but to me was invaluable as I knew when loading up where I was without going to the scales then turning around and heading home to make adjustments. On our rig this was particularly useful when loading the front mounted fresh water tank.

When traveling in windy conditions, or where large vehicles (semis, busses, large dump trucks etc.) are traveling (especially on 2 lane roads) SLOW down. You will experience sway and hammering down at high speed will only make your steering corrections or over correcting markedly worse. The higher the speed the less input on the steering is required for the same effect.

Good luck with your travels and I'm sure others will "chime in" with more suggestions.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:57 AM   #19
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I’ll just share my experience. I started towing my current trailer (which is smaller and lighter than yours) with an F150 eco boost. The towing was ok but I soon realized I was right at the edge (or over) the weight capacity of the truck.

After 1 year I was able to sell the F150 for what I owed on it (carmax). I upgraded to a diesel F250 and the towing experience is extremely better. The difference is almost night and day, anyone who tells you the ecoboost tows great has never towed with a diesel heavy duty truck.

I knew I would be towing a lot so it was worth it to me to upgrade trucks as soon as possible.

Just a side note, if you ever did decide to get a bigger truck I would recommend a 1ton truck (F350 or 3500) for the size of your trailer. The 1 ton has a much higher payload capacity than a 3/4 ton.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:06 AM   #20
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There are many of us "been there - done that" in the community. My experience cost me a lot of money - money I didn't really have. But the safety of my family has to come first.

This can be a hard pill to swallow - it took me quite a long time to do so myself. But if you want to tow a larger trailer, this is just something you're going to have to deal with - either now or later.

If you have to tow with the current truck, do as others have said to improve your odds, and try to keep the speed down - personally, I would never go over 55mph on the flat and would go even slower in the curves.

Good luck. Folks here genuinely want to help, so keep the questions coming.
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