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Old 12-11-2019, 09:57 AM   #21
fjr vfr
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Running P rated tires at 35 psi would scare the living s__t out of me. Upgrading tires is an absolute must!!! Don't forget the valve stems either. They need to be upgraded as well.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:39 AM   #22
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The rims must support the higher-load tires as well. I don't know what the F150 comes with so you may want to check that as well. The load rating should be stamped on the rim somewhere.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger View Post
sourdough, notanlines,weirdgeorge,
I have relied on your experience in the past and took your advice to upgrade my TV. For that,thank you.
You all have the right bless this operation and I have the right not to. 33 foot of trailer and close to 10,000 lbs. is too much for an F150/1500 TV.
"On the fence" is no way to operate. IMHO
If the OP is going to the "expense" of the listed upgrades,shocks,tires and air bags, just take that cash and use it for a down payment on a bigger truck. Noting that all of these items are diminishing that already borderline payload.
I still think the OP can work with the dealer to change his purchase (if he so desires) because he has not "accepted" the present trailer. I'm no RV dealer lawyer but there must be some consumer laws in the OPs favor,especially since the unit has not left the lot. Maybe?
You guy's have been the greatest asset to my RV knowledge. I would expect you to be able to handle a difference of opinion.
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LT,
I really don't believe anyone who has posted a response disagrees with you. The OP is going to do what the OP is going to do. I only pointed out there is no sense in having his puny tires blow up pulling out of the parking lot. Have I ever done stupid? I had a Lance 815 truck camper which the company said could fit on a short or long bed truck and could sit on a half ton. Bwhahahahaha I had a bone stock base model F150 (short bed) with 35 PSI car ties like the OP. Went camping and THEN noticed the tires. Bought new tires and then air bags. The truck felt like it was going to get squished. Therefor I agree with you 100 percent on the guy should not even think about that big 33' trailer but keep thinking about those puny tires on my F150 and wondering how I didn't kill myself. I subsequently sold the truck camper (wife wouldn't take a shower sitting on the toilet) and the truck and bought a light bumper pull (24') and an F250 (1996 F250 w/460) and subsequently bought a small 5ver and an F350 mainly for four wheel disk brakes as I live in the Texas Hill Country and smelling smoking brake drums is not amusing.

The OP will likely not go upside down with his on his truck note and will likely keep his F150 which is fortunately a lot more capable than the one I owned and will figure out his truck isn't really ideal. At least he asked and after trying to drag that 33' camper with his truck will very very likely see that there may be some sense in having a capable TV and go that way when funds permit. He did sound like he was a smart guy.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:05 PM   #24
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LANCE 815 truck camper overwhelming a puny F150 on car tires...
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:30 PM   #25
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I think many who have responded have touched on an "undisclosed revelation"... You don't know what you don't know.....

When the OP drags his new trailer home with his new truck, he has NO previous experience in "heavy towing" upon which to base the performance he "feels in the seat of his pants"... This "feeling" is the basis upon which he compares "good towing" to "his towing"....

If he gets used to the sway, the sensation of being pushed out of his lane and having to "oversteer with white knuckles" to stay in his lane, if he has to slow down to 35MPH to feel like he's in control in a 50 MPH curve and doesn't have any ability to "predict the outcome" of a crosswind at the other end of the underpass"...

What I'm saying is if he has nothing to compare "good" to "mediocre" to "poor" to "TERRIBLE" towing, then he may well consider his rig to be "good to go" when any of us with something to compare it to, may well consider it a "white knuckle experience" while he's happy that it pulls and doesn't overheat, stops and doesn't crash and doesn't come uncoupled at the wrong time", any of us wouldn't even pull it in good weather on good roads "near home".......

One last comment: I think nearly every one of us was "in his shoes" at one time or another, so it's not "criticism" so much as it's "Hey, I made that mistake, maybe I can keep you from making the same one.".... But then.....

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Old 12-11-2019, 08:02 PM   #26
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JRTJH Quote:
"One last comment: I think nearly every one of us was "in his shoes" at one time or another, so it's not "criticism" so much as it's "Hey, I made that mistake, maybe I can keep you from making the same one.".... But then.....",

Exactly!! I was there and I listened to the input from this forums members and made the upgrade to the proper tow vehicle. I truly feel for the OP, I told him that in post #10. Maybe I didn't sugar coat it , but I wasn't making cupcakes at the time. I was telling him my experience and presenting options,real options. If that post was conceived as "you need an HD truck and we won't talk to you until you have one" (a comment I did not write) then I can relate to how our president feels being misquoted all the time.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger View Post
JRTJH Quote:
"One last comment: I think nearly every one of us was "in his shoes" at one time or another, so it's not "criticism" so much as it's "Hey, I made that mistake, maybe I can keep you from making the same one.".... But then.....",

Exactly!! I was there and I listened to the input from this forums members and made the upgrade to the proper tow vehicle. I truly feel for the OP, I told him that in post #10. Maybe I didn't sugar coat it , but I wasn't making cupcakes at the time. I was telling him my experience and presenting options,real options. If that post was conceived as "you need an HD truck and we won't talk to you until you have one" (a comment I did not write) then I can relate to how our president feels being misquoted all the time.
RMc


Laredo, your quote;

"So now I'm confused.
We do the math and this guy has less than 100 lbs. for tools,groceries,clothes.dog food ect..and in the end he will be overweight.
Then we tell him to beef up the TV with shocks,air bags and tires and he will be OK. "


The above post was due to my response to the OP trying to help him on a misguided path (IMO) that he had chosen;

"In post 3 the OP said the truck and trailer were a "done deal" and it is a new truck and trailer. In post 2 I said the 1/2 ton wasn't big enough for that trailer but, if it is what it is, then post back and we could try to help. Then comes the "lipstick on the pig"; ie; mods that need to be made to a marginal vehicle to make it as good as it can be.

Since the OP was stuck with his combo I didn't think it right to just say "you need a bigger truck....bye". Since he is going to be towing with that combo anyway it seems prudent to me to help him, and others, by sharing some advice that will make the experience safer. BTDT. Hopefully that clears up the confusion."



You are questioning my "end game" comments (because the OP is going to do what he wants to do) and I tried to provide options. Your post implied if I did anything less than insist on the HD truck because he was/could be overweight I was misguiding the OP or not pushing big trucks, and being disingenuous. I HATE big trucks (having to drive them) and love 1/2 ton trucks...not for towing - thanks to this forum.

As far as being misquoted; I read what you said and what it implied. I love the President and whether he is maligned/misquoted or not has nothing to do with my post.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:42 AM   #28
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I have noticed everyone on every RV Forum or social media group is very quick to say you need more Tow Vehicle, with threads quickly turning towards you need a 1-ton dually to tow any trailer (this might be an exaggeration, but it happens a lot).

When I started to research my trailer that I bought I found some things interesting. When you look at 3/4- ton and bigger trucks the payload includes a 150 pound driver. When you look at 1/2-ton trucks specifically fords. The payload includes a 150 lb passenger in all available seating positions. If you have a 6 seat truck and only have 2 Adults in the truck at 200 lbs each you potentially have 500 more pounds of payload available.

The only advice I would give the OP would be to take the set up to the scales and weigh it to know what you have. That is the only true way to know. Once you have actual weights you can determine if you are legal. Driving the set up will tell you if you are comfortable with it. Everyone has their own opinions on what they are comfortable driving and most vary greatly.

I personally would want to replace the P tires with LT tires for the stability and load capacity.

Here is the link to Fords 1/2 ton towing and payload data. Page 7 states what they use to calculate payload. It can still vary based on options, so the only way to know is to weigh your rig.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...F150_Oct25.pdf
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:06 AM   #29
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Laredo, your quote;


Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger View Post
JRTJH Quote:
"One last comment: I think nearly every one of us was "in his shoes" at one time or another, so it's not "criticism" so much as it's "Hey, I made that mistake, maybe I can keep you from making the same one.".... But then.....",

Exactly!! I was there and I listened to the input from this forums members and made the upgrade to the proper tow vehicle. I truly feel for the OP, I told him that in post #10. Maybe I didn't sugar coat it , but I wasn't making cupcakes at the time. I was telling him my experience and presenting options,real options. If that post was conceived as "you need an HD truck and we won't talk to you until you have one" (a comment I did not write) then I can relate to how our president feels being misquoted all the time.
RMc
"So now I'm confused.
We do the math and this guy has less than 100 lbs. for tools,groceries,clothes.dog food ect..and in the end he will be overweight.
Then we tell him to beef up the TV with shocks,air bags and tires and he will be OK. "


The above post was due to my response to the OP trying to help him on a misguided path (IMO) that he had chosen;

"In post 3 the OP said the truck and trailer were a "done deal" and it is a new truck and trailer. In post 2 I said the 1/2 ton wasn't big enough for that trailer but, if it is what it is, then post back and we could try to help. Then comes the "lipstick on the pig"; ie; mods that need to be made to a marginal vehicle to make it as good as it can be.

Since the OP was stuck with his combo I didn't think it right to just say "you need a bigger truck....bye". Since he is going to be towing with that combo anyway it seems prudent to me to help him, and others, by sharing some advice that will make the experience safer. BTDT. Hopefully that clears up the confusion."



You are questioning my "end game" comments (because the OP is going to do what he wants to do) and I tried to provide options. Your post implied if I did anything less than insist on the HD truck because he was/could be overweight I was misguiding the OP or not pushing big trucks, and being disingenuous. I HATE big trucks (having to drive them) and love 1/2 ton trucks...not for towing - thanks to this forum.

As far as being misquoted; I read what you said and what it implied. I love the President and whether he is maligned/misquoted or not has nothing to do with my post.
So ironically we are both working towards the same goal here. But to what effect? The OP appears to be long gone "(because the OP is going to do what he wants to do)". Maybe this forum was an eye opener for him and then maybe that wont happen until he goes to the scales,we may never know.
I just hope his first is not an emergency stop. I think we agree on that.
Merry Christmas Danny.
RMc
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:02 AM   #30
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'The OP appears to be long gone "(because the OP is going to do what he wants to do)". Maybe this forum was an eye opener for him and then maybe that won't happen until he goes to the scales,we may never know."

Or he came for confirmation and when it wasn't offered he "took his ball and went home". As you said we likely will never know. He may have posted on other forums and on another forum that told him he will "be fine" and he's over there telling them how he was "mistreated" in this forum. The chances of people coming back and saying "man were you guys right, I really messed up" are few and far between in my observations.

Given the facts I think giving them advice on how to be as safe as "possible" is prudent. The OP IS going to drive the rig down the road regardless of what is said. This is clearly evident. I'd rather have him as safe as "possible" as opposed to not helping at all.

Everyone here has "shouted the consequences of towing with his setup" and therefore is not condoning nor supporting his decision.
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:46 AM   #31
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'The OP appears to be long gone "(because the OP is going to do what he wants to do)". Maybe this forum was an eye opener for him and then maybe that won't happen until he goes to the scales,we may never know."

Or he came for confirmation and when it wasn't offered he "took his ball and went home". As you said we likely will never know. He may have posted on other forums and on another forum that told him he will "be fine" and he's over there telling them how he was "mistreated" in this forum. The chances of people coming back and saying "man were you guys right, I really messed up" are few and far between in my observations.

Given the facts I think giving them advice on how to be as safe as "possible" is prudent. The OP IS going to drive the rig down the road regardless of what is said. This is clearly evident. I'd rather have him as safe as "possible" as opposed to not helping at all.

Everyone here has "shouted the consequences of towing with his setup" and therefore is not condoning nor supporting his decision.
Let me be the first to acknowledge that statement. I had a different idea of what my TV was capable of and was about to "mess up". After a few trips of towing with the gasser it was evident that I needed more truck and I switched to the diesel I have now. All of the help I received from "the wisdom" of this forum was and is greatly appreciated, but none of you can compare to the greatest compliment of all.
On a stretch of I-40 west of Flagstaff going eastbound there are a few grades that demand a majority of the power you have to climb them when towing. On a cross country trip towing the trailer and traversing one of theses grades it was so nice to hear DW say "I'm so glad you got this truck". None of you guy's can top that. Don't even try.
As for the OP seeking affirmation elsewhere (other sites). I would hope that there are other "counselors" on those sites that will give good advice. I hope his rig works for him without any physical damage or financial hardship. As others have said, he is close to max but he should be careful.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:04 AM   #32
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Yup, my epiphany was on Rt 68 in western Maryland towing with a F 150. Never had an issue towing the 29' ultralight (not Keystone) before. Got to the "big cut" at the top from the west (calm winds) and the wind from the east was howling up the face of the mountain. This of course coincided with me passing 2 semi's doing a little over 40 in the right lane.

Thankfully I made it past the trucks when the trailer attempted to break dance. I've never come so close to losing it and thanked God for the Reese Straight Line hitch. After getting the current truck and trailer and driving over the same pass my DW said "this truck rides a lot rougher but it sure is more comfortable" Amen.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #33
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‘OP’ is not gone, just trying to take this all in. This has really been quite eye opening and upsetting as we have sunk a good bit of retirement $ into this RV’ing endeavor. I guess I was a bit naive in believing (and taking at face value) that companies like Keystone and Ford would advertise products in such a manner (‘1/2 ton towable’, 10000 lb towing capacity), or that neither the RV dealer would inquire as to what I would be towing with, nor the car dealer asking what I’d actually be towing. It’s pretty disheartening to find out that I will either die on the way home or if I’m lucky, simply have my tires explode before I get out of the parking lot!

I really do appreciate all the info everyone has provided. Right now I plan on nursing this thing to the nearest scale to get some more numbers. From there I’ll try determine what shade(s) of lipstick this pig will look best in.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:52 AM   #34
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‘OP’ is not gone, just trying to take this all in. This has really been quite eye opening and upsetting as we have sunk a good bit of retirement $ into this RV’ing endeavor. I guess I was a bit naive in believing (and taking at face value) that companies like Keystone and Ford would advertise products in such a manner (‘1/2 ton towable’, 10000 lb towing capacity), or that neither the RV dealer would inquire as to what I would be towing with, nor the car dealer asking what I’d actually be towing. It’s pretty disheartening to find out that I will either die on the way home or if I’m lucky, simply have my tires explode before I get out of the parking lot!

I really do appreciate all the info everyone has provided. Right now I plan on nursing this thing to the nearest scale to get some more numbers. From there I’ll try determine what shade(s) of lipstick this pig will look best in.
It's tough finding this info "after the fact". Keystone and Ford are advertising like every company does, the onus is on the consumer to do the due diligence and decipher what they are claiming. No different then the plethora of "new and improved", "best fill in the blank" (cell service, insurance coverage, headache remedy, banking institution, pillows, etc.)

JMHO
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:06 AM   #35
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It's tough finding this info "after the fact". Keystone and Ford are advertising like every company does, the onus is on the consumer to do the due diligence and decipher what they are claiming. No different then the plethora of "new and improved", "best fill in the blank" (cell service, insurance coverage, headache remedy, banking institution, pillows, etc.)

JMHO
It was very scary to me when I found out that those numbers are just marketing. I'm glad I found out before I bought my trailer/truck combo. Most people take those numbers at face value and I have been trying to spread the word to my friends at least.

A couple weeks back, a friend showed up at my house to pick up some firewood with some sort of Honda SUV and a rented Uhaul trailer expecting to load up 2 cords of hard wood at a time. He kept saying that it was rated to tow 8000lbs. I went over the numbers on his vehicle with him and he ended up taking less than one cord of mixed soft/hard wood at a time.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #36
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It's tough finding this info "after the fact". Keystone and Ford are advertising like every company does, the onus is on the consumer to do the due diligence and decipher what they are claiming. No different then the plethora of "new and improved", "best fill in the blank" (cell service, insurance coverage, headache remedy, banking institution, pillows, etc.)

JMHO
I hear what you are saying and am not alluding that I’m not the one responsible for getting all the facts. However, in your analogy I can’t see anyone potentially getting hurt because I selected a crappy cell plan or got a stiff neck from Mr. Pillow. When safety is a concern, the information being doled out during the sales pitch should be more forthcoming. In any event, another life lesson learned, the hard way!

Thanks again.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:18 AM   #37
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‘OP’ is not gone, just trying to take this all in. This has really been quite eye opening and upsetting as we have sunk a good bit of retirement $ into this RV’ing endeavor. I guess I was a bit naive in believing (and taking at face value) that companies like Keystone and Ford would advertise products in such a manner (‘1/2 ton towable’, 10000 lb towing capacity), or that neither the RV dealer would inquire as to what I would be towing with, nor the car dealer asking what I’d actually be towing. It’s pretty disheartening to find out that I will either die on the way home or if I’m lucky, simply have my tires explode before I get out of the parking lot!

I really do appreciate all the info everyone has provided. Right now I plan on nursing this thing to the nearest scale to get some more numbers. From there I’ll try determine what shade(s) of lipstick this pig will look best in.
There are a lot of us that have gone through the same thing, unfortunately. I had just purchased a brand new 2019 GMC Yukon Denali - the most expensive vehicle I had ever purchased - and planned to keep it for a long, long time. Unfortunately, I ended up having to sell it less than 8 months later and purchasing our current truck. I lost a lot of money on that trade - I don't like to think about how much, but it was in the 20k range - Ouch.

Like others, I didn't really understand how bad my towing had been - I thought it was "normal", but after upgrading to our current trailer and driving 5 hours on our first trip, it was clear the Yukon wasn't enough to manage the load. That camping trip was supposed to be a fun shake-down trip with our new trailer, but we spent it researching a new tow vehicle.

Good luck in your decisions as you move forward.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:37 AM   #38
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I hear what you are saying and am not alluding that I’m not the one responsible for getting all the facts. However, in your analogy I can’t see anyone potentially getting hurt because I selected a crappy cell plan or got a stiff neck from Mr. Pillow. When safety is a concern, the information being doled out during the sales pitch should be more forthcoming. In any event, another life lesson learned, the hard way!

Thanks again.
I understand your point however you have to read all the disclaimers and understand the terms and conditions. While a stiff neck is not a big deal the misuses of drugs can and often is deadly. Driving a 700+ hp Dodge thru the city drifting thru turns can be deadly. I'm by no means taking up for any company and I do think most of the advertising is deplorable but do companies selling alcoholic beverages state the too much will cause liver disease or driving drunk kills people? No, they show a very small "drink responsibly" disclaimer. What is that? One drink? Two drinks?

The auto companies will taught their best numbers and realistically can't cover every scenario that may apply. It's like the Federal fuel mileage numbers, good luck getting that in the real world.

So as a fellow "been there done that got the tee shirt" member I, and many, many people here are in the "club" with you.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:11 AM   #39
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‘OP’ is not gone, just trying to take this all in. This has really been quite eye opening and upsetting as we have sunk a good bit of retirement $ into this RV’ing endeavor. I guess I was a bit naive in believing (and taking at face value) that companies like Keystone and Ford would advertise products in such a manner (‘1/2 ton towable’, 10000 lb towing capacity), or that neither the RV dealer would inquire as to what I would be towing with, nor the car dealer asking what I’d actually be towing. It’s pretty disheartening to find out that I will either die on the way home or if I’m lucky, simply have my tires explode before I get out of the parking lot!

I really do appreciate all the info everyone has provided. Right now I plan on nursing this thing to the nearest scale to get some more numbers. From there I’ll try determine what shade(s) of lipstick this pig will look best in.

markcee, you can tell from some of the responses (and there are many others trust me) that you aren't the first, nor will you be the last, to go through the "got a new truck and it won't work" situation including myself. In my case I knew I was at my limit or just over when I chose this trailer. In fact, went from a 2 year old 1/2 ton, to a new 1/2 ton to the truck in my signature. Bought the 2nd 1/2 ton just to get a different axle ratio thinking that would improve my situation enough to make me happy (it didn't) plus I refused to buy a "hard" riding HD truck. My wounds were self inflicted but costly non the less. The HD ride can be harsh but you get used to it. The chronic pain I used to have in my back that made me leery of the harsh ride went away when my gallbladder and associated stones were removed . Now I have a towing experience that is so superior to what I had that it is really pretty hard to find descriptors for it. My wife, like others, also notices how much more relaxed I am while towing.

A scale will tell the tale and let you know where you stand. Hopefully you don't have to do as I did and leave half the stuff you wanted to take at home, make half a dozen mods to the truck to be as safe as possible then find you are puckered when towing anyway - I actually enjoy it now. By the way, I think I still have a drawer full of "lipsticks" I used on my pigs...they might prove useful...
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:13 AM   #40
JRTJH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHolliday View Post


When you look at 3/4- ton and bigger trucks the payload includes a 150 pound driver. When you look at 1/2-ton trucks specifically fords. The payload includes a 150 lb passenger in all available seating positions. If you have a 6 seat truck and only have 2 Adults in the truck at 200 lbs each you potentially have 500 more pounds of payload available.

...

Here is the link to Fords 1/2 ton towing and payload data. Page 7 states what they use to calculate payload. It can still vary based on options, so the only way to know is to weigh your rig.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...F150_Oct25.pdf
While I agree with SOME of your comments, there is some "misinterpretation" in parts of what you suggest.

First, there is, in the towing brochure that you link, on page 7, a chart indicating maximum payloads for specific truck configurations, there is the comment about "a 150 pound passenger in each seating position". That infers what you suggest. FOR SLIDE IN CAMPER PAYLOAD CALCULATIONS (not for payload computations in other loading configurations).

Second, that chart (on page 7) has the following statement:
"Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position"

Notice that the chart data is based an an XL model truck with MINIMUM optional equipment. I'd suggest that you simply can't buy an XL model equipped like that on any dealership lot.

Third, when you go to the "operating information document" (the owner's manual) instructions on how to calculate payload, the specific instructions state that you must calculate (and deduct) the weight of each passenger and the driver from the available payload information on the door sticker. That information starts on page 277 in the 2019 F150 Owner's Manual and the specific calculation process is found on page 280.

To the OP: I sense and share your frustration about how manufacturers "boast" about their products and intentionally "mislead" the uninformed and inexperienced public with patently false information. They use "base model" vehicle data to "compete against the competition" and we get caught up in their misrepresentations, often just financially, sometimes physically as well.

I don't know how to "fix" the process, but like you and so many others who have responded, it can be a costly mistake to take any manufacturer's advertising as relevant and meaningful when spending hard earned money.

The sad part, IMHO, is that Keystone, Forest River, Ford, GM, Chrysler/Fiat, Toyota, Honda, Nissan and virtually all the rest of them do the same damned thing, all the while smiling while counting our money into their profit sharing plan.....
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