<new> 2016 250urs delivered w/problems

[PineForestCamper]

I have taken possession of a 2016 Outback 250URS. I love the floorplan. We were ready to move on from our hybrid and love the rear hard slide. This unit was built in March and I purchased it in October from General RV in Huntley IL. The walk thru went relatively smooth. I have already owned RV's so my questions were relatively few in terms of understanding how the systems work. Most of the time was spent waiting for the install of fantastic fans and the transaction paperwork. There were a handful of minor issues that were noticed and they either took care of them or took notes to address them.

Two days after taking posession my wife started to inspect the camper and noticed that there were a couple of rusted bolts. Then she noticed more items that were rusted out. We put down the stabilizers and they were all rusted out completely. The outside cooktop had corrosion on the hardware.

We looked at each other, got on the ground and climbed underneath the camper and instantly noticed that there was rust everywhere. The kind of rust you see in MN on a vehicle that has been thru 10 winters of salt and has never been washed off.

We took out the camera and started taking pictures. This was mind you two days after taking possession, and six months after it was built. This unit was built in March and delivered to the General RV in Ohio. Rust doesnt grow like that in six months.

We have since poured over this unit with a microscope and noticed a few more items. Cracked cabinets, missing parts in the new fridge, crumpled blind (it was in the up position when I was shown the camper), and a furnace that has a bearing issue or fan blade issue (rather loud noise coming from furnace).

I called General RV in IL and spent the next month trying to get a return call from them. They are busy. Extremely busy. Managers have not returned calls. I could have been calling to give away a million dollars. They would not have known I wasnt. I finally got to talk to Jim in service and he immediately became defensive and told me to call a local dealer in MN. I'm not sure why a dealer in MN would feel obliged to deal with my situation when the dealer I purchased from has no interest. Jim finally passed along a phone number to Keystone.

I contacted Darcy at Keystone. She told me that rust is not covered by warranty. I asked her if new units traditionally come with rust. Should I have expected my stabilizers to be fully rusted out? She did not address my question but asked me to send her pictures. I sent her pictures and two days later she emailed me asking me to take my unit to a local dealer for PreAuth.

I took my unit in this week to Pleasureland RV in Ramsey MN. Robin went outside with me to take pictures. Mind you I already have taken many pictures that are in the hands of Keystone. Robin told me that rust is not covered. I asked her if brand new Keystone units traditonally come with rusted out parts? She didnt respond and walked with me to my unit. We went over the unit and she took many pictures.

Before leaving Pleasureland a service tech looked over the pictures and took my info so they can contact me. He shook his head and said there is no way this thing was built in March. Absolutely no way. I responded to him by saying that the sticker on the side says it was built in March. He shook his head and was adamant. There is no way. This could not have built in March. Period.

I've done my best to not provoke defense. I'm not sure what the result of this should be. I do wonder what exactly happened here. I cant think that Keystone is regularly shipping units in this condition to dealers. They just cant be. If they were they would be out of business. It would be a terrible business model and the consumer wouldnt put up with it. I do wonder though what exactly happened here. I also know that on some level something has to be done. New stabilizers, new cabinets, address the cooktop, furnace needs to function, and all that rust. Oh my. I have read about previous experiences with rust that people have addressed with Keystone. It hasnt went well. Some just like me. They get the thing and its all right there. It's crazy. I've attached a few of the MANY pictures of I have.

Has anyone went thru something like this before?
How often does something like this come up?
Any advice?
Does anyone at Keystone ever check in here at the forum?

I welcome your input. Wish my first posts here were all in celebration of the new camper. Hopefully we'll get there soon. Issues aside its a beautiful floorplan. Had to include a picture of it as well!

--Brad--

















Attachment 11529

[BirchyBoy]

Even though Keystone built the unit in March, the frame could have been built a while before that. It likely had sat outside in the weather for a while. It doesn't look rusted out to me, but it has been exposed to the elements. I hate to say it, but I don't think you'll get far, but I hope you do. I think you'll be out there with some elbow grease and a can of spray paint making sure the frame looks good.

Good luck!

[TAZ23]

I have seen that before on units that were built during the winter. I would bet that the unit was transported to the dealer during or right after a snow event. The salt build up from the road spray will hang on the underside and most dealers will wash off the outside of the trailer but not the under side. After sitting on the dealers lot for 6 months with salt residue on it, it will show some rust .Although it looks bad it appears to be surface rust and can be taken care of with some black Rustoleum paint. It doesn't hurt to try to get Keystone to cover it, but i've got a feeling they wont because it's cosmetic and not a safety issue. (see front cap fading on some previous threads).

[gearhead]

I wish you luck but I don't think you'll get anywhere with Keystone with the rust. A couple cans of Rustoleum is about all you, or anyone else, can do.
The other issues I would pursue. But I wouldn't wait around too long. Get a service appointment with the selling dealer regarding the cabinets.
The furnace and refrigerator issues may be covered by an independent service shop under the components warranty. Call around nearby RV repair shops to see if they are authorized repair centers for those affected components. Describe what is happening and get a reading on how they would diagnose it. You don't want to be out several hours labor charges to be told it's not a problem, or not warranty.
You should find an independent repair shop nearby that has been in business a while and is recommended by other local RV owners. I have found my selling dealer has little interest or capability of making timely repairs.

[Tbos]

Saw a brand new Keystone Passport at a campground and the jacks were so rusted my battery powered drill couldn't drive them. Lots of WD-40 and muscle were able to get them working. On my own I had to live them well, but no major rust. Good luck. Hope you get it all taken care of and can enjoy your rig.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by BirchyBoy

Even though Keystone built the unit in March, the frame could have been built a while before that. It likely had sat outside in the weather for a while. It doesn't look rusted out to me, but it has been exposed to the elements. I hate to say it, but I don't think you'll get far, but I hope you do. I think you'll be out there with some elbow grease and a can of spray paint making sure the frame looks good.

Good luck!

I would love to know the back story on this and there is one. Brand new Keystone RV's dont look like this even after they have been exposed to the elements for six months. I owned a 2013 Rockwood that was delivered in the winter and had salt all over it. That salt didnt get washed off the entire first season. When we sold it in October 2016 it had a couple of spots of rust on it. That was it. Are Rockwood camper frames better than Keystone? I highly doubt that. Its not rusted out. No. But it is full of rust. Which is not normal. Nowhere near normal. Think back to any new or even used campers you've purchased. This just doesnt happen. What have your campers looked like when you received them? Would you take a few pictures underneath yours and post them here?

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by TAZ23

I have seen that before on units that were built during the winter. I would bet that the unit was transported to the dealer during or right after a snow event. The salt build up from the road spray will hang on the underside and most dealers will wash off the outside of the trailer but not the under side. After sitting on the dealers lot for 6 months with salt residue on it, it will show some rust .Although it looks bad it appears to be surface rust and can be taken care of with some black Rustoleum paint. It doesn't hurt to try to get Keystone to cover it, but i've got a feeling they wont because it's cosmetic and not a safety issue. (see front cap fading on some previous threads).

I'm following up with Keystone and thinking about further contact with the dealer in an attempt to at least find out "the story". As I posted here with another I purchased a Rockwood in 2013 that was delivered in the winter with salt all over it. That salt did not get washed off for an entire season. I sold it about a month ago and when I sold it there was literally no rust on it. Rockwood camper frames, stabilizers, bolts, nuts, washers, and steel are not higher quality than Keystone. At least I dont believe so. If it were the case and this were common place Keystone would not be in business and be known as making quality products.

This is probably not a safety issue. Surface rust most likely. Take a look underneath yours. I bet it doesnt look like this one. Just think if it did and if it did the day you took delivery and you noticed it a couple of days later. Think about the resale value. Would you pay more or less for a trailer that had all this rust over it? Would you not throw up a red flag if you noticed that the owner had painted all over a bunch of rust? For me I'm not angry with anyone. I generally believe that Keystone wants to know about this. They build thousands of units a year and I've never seen anything like this and I bet they havent either. At least thats how I see it. How could they or their dealers sell new units like this and not take a huge hit with the public? It doesnt seem possible.

Thanks for the reply!

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by gearhead

I wish you luck but I don't think you'll get anywhere with Keystone with the rust. A couple cans of Rustoleum is about all you, or anyone else, can do.
The other issues I would pursue. But I wouldn't wait around too long. Get a service appointment with the selling dealer regarding the cabinets.
The furnace and refrigerator issues may be covered by an independent service shop under the components warranty. Call around nearby RV repair shops to see if they are authorized repair centers for those affected components. Describe what is happening and get a reading on how they would diagnose it. You don't want to be out several hours labor charges to be told it's not a problem, or not warranty.
You should find an independent repair shop nearby that has been in business a while and is recommended by other local RV owners. I have found my selling dealer has little interest or capability of making timely repairs.

I am pursuing with Keystone. I sent them pictures and details first. Then they sent me to a local dealer for them to verify. I am waiting on Keystone as they process all of this. Included in the items are the cabinets: which the woman at the dealer thought very strange as there were multiple fractures (I only posted one picture here). They are also processing the fridge, furnace and blinds. We'll see what happens. The local dealer involved here has been very helpful so far. I hear thats not always the case with others. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by Tbos

Saw a brand new Keystone Passport at a campground and the jacks were so rusted my battery powered drill couldn't drive them. Lots of WD-40 and muscle were able to get them working. On my own I had to live them well, but no major rust. Good luck. Hope you get it all taken care of and can enjoy your rig.

Wow! Thats crazy. Similar to my stabilizers/jacks. Maybe this does happen to more people than I'm thinking. If I were Keystone I'd be horrified. Like sending a meal back to the kitchen at a restaurant that is undercooked or just off. Management is super embarrassed (because its not what they strive for and is rare) so they give you a new meal and even comp it for free sometimes.

Two of my jacks have bent rods and wobble wildly when moved. Keystone knows about that too. Thank you for the encouragement. Things 'will' work out and we're going to have a great time camping. Has to...I've already got most of next season planned out and Keystone is a first class operation so this is all going to work out.

I'm curious to know what your jacks and underbelly look like.

[JRTJH]

To answer your question: Does anyone at Keystone ever check in here at the forum? To the best of my knowledge, NO, there's nobody at Keystone that's even been identified as a member of this forum. We have hopes that with the new forum management, that may change, but to date, don't expect that Keystone will see, read or even hear about anything posted here.

Frames for virtually all RV's manufactured in the US are made by Lippert. There are only two or three "high end" trailer manufacturers that make their own frames. All the rest are "low bid products" from Lippert. The frame on your Rockwood was manufactured by the same company (Lippert) that manufactured the frame on your Outback.

You "ought to" arm yourself with as much information as you can find related to "rust on RV frames" and "corrosion on RV accessories" so you can talk with some "authority" to the dealership where you take your trailer for service. I just did a search on this forum for "RUST" and came up with 12 pages of threads that have that word "somewhere in the thread". While not all of them apply to your situation, several on the first few pages do:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust

You might also want to read your Owner's Manual thoroughly, particularly the warranty (3 pages) paying particular attention to the section: "What Is NOT Covered" on page 9 and also the owner maintenance responsibilities on page 76 (frame/chassis/attachments).

I know this post probably comes across as "I don't care" or "I'm not on your side". My actual thoughts are just the opposite: I do hope you can get resolution for your problems, but I'm not going to offer you any encouragement to believe that you'll be successful. It's going to be a very hard, long uphill battle, especially with a local dealership that has nothing to gain from taking on the task of "cleaning up your trailer" that you bought from a competitor who pocketed the profits from the sale.

All I can do is suggest you get "really well educated" on what you're facing and I wish you "Good Luck" !!!!!

[Jetfixer03]

As someone about to take delivery of my first TT, I'm reading this with interest. Trust me, I'll be showing up on delivery day dressed for rolling around under the trailer. I've inspected aircraft for 30 years, so I'm pretty good with a flashlight and mirror! Thanks for the heads up. Another thing to add to the to-do list...hit a lot of areas with corrosion preventative.

I think it's likely that no matter how hard you look, things will get by you. That's why I bought through my local dealer, I've heard good things about their customer support. I could probably save a few bucks by buying from someone a thousand miles away via the internet, but I wouldn't blame my local dealer for not jumping through any hoops for me when I have a problem. Whether you're talking Harley's, Cadillac's, or whatever, stuff happens and products aren't perfect. When that happens it's nice to have a good dealer in your corner.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Jetfixer03

As someone about to take delivery of my first TT, I'm reading this with interest. Trust me, I'll be showing up on delivery day dressed for rolling around under the trailer. I've inspected aircraft for 30 years, so I'm pretty good with a flashlight and mirror! Thanks for the heads up. Another thing to add to the to-do list...hit a lot of areas with corrosion preventative.

I think it's likely that no matter how hard you look, things will get by you. That's why I bought through my local dealer, I've heard good things about their customer support. I could probably save a few bucks by buying from someone a thousand miles away via the internet, but I wouldn't blame my local dealer for not jumping through any hoops for me when I have a problem. Whether you're talking Harley's, Cadillac's, or whatever, stuff happens and products aren't perfect. When that happens it's nice to have a good dealer in your corner.

You are very correct in having a name and face that know you and are looking out for your "return business", no matter what the product. You might want to take a look at the PDI checklist on this forum. You can find it in the "sticky" located here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=62

Generally speaking, Keystone produces a good quality trailer, equal to or better than the "price point competition" so as long as you're vigilant and know what you're looking for, both inside and out, you should have a pleasant experience and get a trailer with most of the bugs worked out.

Good Luck with your purchase.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

To answer your question: Does anyone at Keystone ever check in here at the forum? To the best of my knowledge, NO, there's nobody at Keystone that's even been identified as a member of this forum. We have hopes that with the new forum management, that may change, but to date, don't expect that Keystone will see, read or even hear about anything posted here.

Frames for virtually all RV's manufactured in the US are made by Lippert. There are only two or three "high end" trailer manufacturers that make their own frames. All the rest are "low bid products" from Lippert. The frame on your Rockwood was manufactured by the same company (Lippert) that manufactured the frame on your Outback.

You "ought to" arm yourself with as much information as you can find related to "rust on RV frames" and "corrosion on RV accessories" so you can talk with some "authority" to the dealership where you take your trailer for service. I just did a search on this forum for "RUST" and came up with 12 pages of threads that have that word "somewhere in the thread". While not all of them apply to your situation, several on the first few pages do:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=rust

You might also want to read your Owner's Manual thoroughly, particularly the warranty (3 pages) paying particular attention to the section: "What Is NOT Covered" on page 9 and also the owner maintenance responsibilities on page 76 (frame/chassis/attachments).

I know this post probably comes across as "I don't care" or "I'm not on your side". My actual thoughts are just the opposite: I do hope you can get resolution for your problems, but I'm not going to offer you any encouragement to believe that you'll be successful. It's going to be a very hard, long uphill battle, especially with a local dealership that has nothing to gain from taking on the task of "cleaning up your trailer" that you bought from a competitor who pocketed the profits from the sale.

All I can do is suggest you get "really well educated" on what you're facing and I wish you "Good Luck" !!!!!

Thank you for the back story that I've been looking for and I think I have a pretty good idea what is going on now. It's nothing new nothing different than whats going on in much of the economy.

The consumer is looking for a certain price point and the companies are delivering on that at the expense of quality. The consumer is willing to do this because price matters more than quality. At least for the majority of consumers. This is happening across the spectrum of manufacturing.

I have talked to someone in the trades (plumber) and they told me that this is typical. Every year the parts are made of cheaper quality materials and the parts stay close to price point. The parts dont hold up as well and why would they.

So Keystone and Rockwood and everyone else buys these frames in huge quantities and selects the mfg who can deliver on price and certain quality standards. The higher end campers like an Airstream has their frames made from different source because they are selling a higher end camper and their customers are willing to pay the higher price.

I'm realistic about this. Thank you for the links. I've already read them and am formulating a strategy as I move forward. The best thing anyone can do is be prepared. With my Rockwood I just got "lucky" or my dealer only takes on units that meet their standards or they refuse them. It truly is buyer beware. I put myself at a disadvantage when I signed the papers and drove away. Once that was done I didnt hold the cards.

I can see a certain amount of dishonesty in this whole process to be honest. Reading the stories of people who have had dealers paint over rust, rush them thru the closing, etc. I realize that that some of this is just how the business works. When shopping for this Outback I was talking to one dealer and I told him that its a $20,000 camper and you have to be realistic. You cant get something with all the components these things have for such an affordable price and have them be of the highest quality. He told me that not everyone sees things the way I do. You gotta be realistic.

Saying that I would recommend that every be armed with the information they need to know so that when they go and purchase an RV they are not one of the ones left with a unit that out of the box has some of these issues. They are not all like that. However, knowing the bigger picture you have to realize the potential for getting a unit with a lot of rust. When buying you have to know what hill you are willing to die on and therefore know when seeing issues you just walk away before signing the papers.

Thanks for the links. I literally did not know the extent to which this is happening. I looked around other places and YEP its common. Not everyone however gets a trailer with these issues. My Rockwood was a gem. Amazing. I would always tell others that the day they built mine everyone was doing great work on the line. That was before I knew there was rust issues out there.

I'm going to go into these discussions with Keystone and dealers much more prepared. Thank you again.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by Jetfixer03

As someone about to take delivery of my first TT, I'm reading this with interest. Trust me, I'll be showing up on delivery day dressed for rolling around under the trailer. I've inspected aircraft for 30 years, so I'm pretty good with a flashlight and mirror! Thanks for the heads up. Another thing to add to the to-do list...hit a lot of areas with corrosion preventative.

I think it's likely that no matter how hard you look, things will get by you. That's why I bought through my local dealer, I've heard good things about their customer support. I could probably save a few bucks by buying from someone a thousand miles away via the internet, but I wouldn't blame my local dealer for not jumping through any hoops for me when I have a problem. Whether you're talking Harley's, Cadillac's, or whatever, stuff happens and products aren't perfect. When that happens it's nice to have a good dealer in your corner.

Sounds like you are going to be ready and you are absolutely right that you cant catch everything there. They had me setup for a 1.5 hour walk thru and most of that time was to be spent inside doing paperwork. I ended up spending 4.5 hours there going over the camper and yet I still didnt see the rust issues, notice the furnace fan noise and excessive smell, and the multiple prominent cracks in the cabinets. I realize now that having my wife with there with me to go over things with a fine tooth comb would have been very helpful.

I purchased a Rockwood thru an internet dealer (RV Wholesalers) and saved $5,000. They were great to deal with and actually delivered it to me from Ohio thru a mistake of their own for free because they wanted to make good. I would have purchased from them again had they sold a model with a rear hard slide. Outback is the only mfg that does now and RV Wholesalers doesnt sell them. On this Outback purchase I saved $3,000 from a dealer that was great to work with on the sale end of things and yet trying to get service from them has been extremely difficult. They are in Chicago and I'd do the travel if need be yet they just seem overwhelmed with calls.

Can you check back in after you get your trailer and tell me how it went? I'd love to hear how things go. Hope things go well for you! These things arent perfect as you say. Just need to know when to walk away if we see lots of issues. I would have walked away from mine had I taken one look under the trailer.

[busterbrown]

My take on it as I took delivery of our TT on April 4th (Build date was 4 weeks earlier):

Mine had similar surface rust on axle housings, leaf springs, and exposed frame rails at the time of my PDI. Noticeable for sure but non-threatening. The PDI tech offered up that many of these components sit for weeks (and months) in yards prior to assembly. Sounded rational so I bit. Throughout the summer, I've been spraying with silicone lubricants on areas noted above to provide some anti-corrosive properties to the metal. So far, the areas of concern look the same even after 6K miles and 47 days of travel in the last 8 months.

[TAZ23]

Originally Posted by PineForestCamper

I'm following up with Keystone and thinking about further contact with the dealer in an attempt to at least find out "the story". As I posted here with another I purchased a Rockwood in 2013 that was delivered in the winter with salt all over it. That salt did not get washed off for an entire season. I sold it about a month ago and when I sold it there was literally no rust on it. Rockwood camper frames, stabilizers, bolts, nuts, washers, and steel are not higher quality than Keystone. At least I dont believe so. If it were the case and this were common place Keystone would not be in business and be known as making quality products.

This is probably not a safety issue. Surface rust most likely. Take a look underneath yours. I bet it doesnt look like this one. Just think if it did and if it did the day you took delivery and you noticed it a couple of days later. Think about the resale value. Would you pay more or less for a trailer that had all this rust over it? Would you not throw up a red flag if you noticed that the owner had painted all over a bunch of rust? For me I'm not angry with anyone. I generally believe that Keystone wants to know about this. They build thousands of units a year and I've never seen anything like this and I bet they havent either. At least thats how I see it. How could they or their dealers sell new units like this and not take a huge hit with the public? It doesnt seem possible.

Thanks for the reply!

As JRTJH noted, most trailer frames are built by one company (Lippert). They will rust over time on their own. Use a good wire brush to remove the rust and loose paint before painting it and it will look pretty good when your done. I know and agree with you that this should not have to be done on a brand new trailer, but it is what it is. If I was buying a used trailer, I would rather buy one that showed the previous owner was proactive rather than negligent in doing maintenance on it. When I go to buy a new trailer I look at everything inside and out, and top and bottom. dealers aren't usually too happy when I go on the roof (Liability reasons if I fall), but if I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on it I'm going to inspect it. I also take along a high power flashlight and a screw driver to see into nooks, crannys and crevices.

[sourdough]

As has been said previously, I wish you the best but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Since rust is cosmetic, or so they say, and Keystone doesn't cover that, I think you have an uphill battle. Documentation, pictures and knowledge on your part will help.

This also points out an issue that comes up pretty frequently; buying from a dealer far away to save a few dollars; then ending up losing far more than that in time and money when something goes awry. Your selling dealer should be your advocate with Keystone. Unfortunately in your case, and others, they are far away and can't/won't take your case to intercede for you. You are now left with another dealer, who has no skin in your game, to try to carry the ball for you. Not the best scenario.

I think your best bet is to be on first name terms with the service manager at the dealer that is going to try to take care of this for you. Give him all the details, pics etc. (it sounds as though you have). His relationship with Keystone, and his willingness to go the extra mile for you, will determine if you have any luck at all with Keystone. I wish you good luck.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As has been said previously, I wish you the best but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Since rust is cosmetic, or so they say, and Keystone doesn't cover that, I think you have an uphill battle. Documentation, pictures and knowledge on your part will help.

This also points out an issue that comes up pretty frequently; buying from a dealer far away to save a few dollars; then ending up losing far more than that in time and money when something goes awry. Your selling dealer should be your advocate with Keystone. Unfortunately in your case, and others, they are far away and can't/won't take your case to intercede for you. You are now left with another dealer, who has no skin in your game, to try to carry the ball for you. Not the best scenario.

I think your best bet is to be on first name terms with the service manager at the dealer that is going to try to take care of this for you. Give him all the details, pics etc. (it sounds as though you have). His relationship with Keystone, and his willingness to go the extra mile for you, will determine if you have any luck at all with Keystone. I wish you good luck.

The last paragraph is most important along with how many units that dealer sells. My dealer is on target for 1800 or more RVs this year and many are Keystone. Prior to being accepted when delivered a tech goes over each unit. At least one unit was refused and returned this year due to a major problem. Not only the relationship between service mgr and Keystone but also between you and the SM. If any builder denies a claim both the service mgr and general mgr get on the phone to get it resolved.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As has been said previously, I wish you the best but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Since rust is cosmetic, or so they say, and Keystone doesn't cover that, I think you have an uphill battle. Documentation, pictures and knowledge on your part will help.

This also points out an issue that comes up pretty frequently; buying from a dealer far away to save a few dollars; then ending up losing far more than that in time and money when something goes awry. Your selling dealer should be your advocate with Keystone. Unfortunately in your case, and others, they are far away and can't/won't take your case to intercede for you. You are now left with another dealer, who has no skin in your game, to try to carry the ball for you. Not the best scenario.

I think your best bet is to be on first name terms with the service manager at the dealer that is going to try to take care of this for you. Give him all the details, pics etc. (it sounds as though you have). His relationship with Keystone, and his willingness to go the extra mile for you, will determine if you have any luck at all with Keystone. I wish you good luck.

Thanks for the input. I should be clear that my previous RV was purchased out of state and they were fabulous to deal with. They were a high volume seller in Ohio (I'm in MN). I did not know them on a first name basis. Yet when during the warranty period I contacted them for service they were very responsive. After those early issues we never had to take our unit in for any service. The unit got the hiccups out of the way and it was flawless for four years. To be honest there were not enough issues for us to be on a first name basis. As with my auto mechanic I never want to see him often. In fact, beyond maintenance I never want to see him at all and tell him so after every auto repair and we laugh. I can see how others would get to know the service manager well if they bring their unit in for winterization, repacking the bearings, brake work, etc. These are functions that we do ourselves. So we miss out on that opportunity. It's my belief that once we get past this initial issues it is highly likely that this unit will not see the inside of a service garage ever because its solidly built and we will take on all service once its out of warranty.

[PineForestCamper]

Originally Posted by TAZ23

As JRTJH noted, most trailer frames are built by one company (Lippert). They will rust over time on their own. Use a good wire brush to remove the rust and loose paint before painting it and it will look pretty good when your done. I know and agree with you that this should not have to be done on a brand new trailer, but it is what it is. If I was buying a used trailer, I would rather buy one that showed the previous owner was proactive rather than negligent in doing maintenance on it. When I go to buy a new trailer I look at everything inside and out, and top and bottom. dealers aren't usually too happy when I go on the roof (Liability reasons if I fall), but if I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on it I'm going to inspect it. I also take along a high power flashlight and a screw driver to see into nooks, crannys and crevices.

I spent the weekend doing my research reading all the links and then some given to me. I've said this all along that I'm a realist when it comes to recreational vehicles. The more I read the more the situation becomes really clear. I was outside and underneath my camper at 1:30am last night with my flashlight on the underbelly. I'm preparing myself for what I believe will be the likely response from Keystone. We are very capable of taking care of this thing. The one thing I'm guilty of is ignorance. I literally had no idea that rust issues exist with these frames. We will need to be on this no matter what. Especially when we plan to take this thing out for some winter camping and here in MN the roads are covered with salt. We could not take our hybrid out for winter trips for obvious reasons. Winter camping means regular work will be needed on that frame because corrosion happens and for sure on these Lippert frames. Thats what I've learned in all of this. Thank you for the input. I think you are right about the regular maintenance. This will be an opportunity for us to educate the people who buy this from us when we sell years down the road as to the importance of taking care of that steel when it gets rusty.