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Old 11-19-2017, 07:03 PM   #1
336
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Fuel for the fire on the truck Gvwr discussion

A pic is worth a 1000 words rt? 2103 Chevy 2500, with Load Lifter 5000 bags on it. 2016 Ram 3500 duel wheel, stock. So before we get crazy. BOTH trucks are within wt specs. Same hitches. Same everything basically. Similar campers. Cougar 336 bhs, Grand Designs Reflection with the same exact floor plan. Similar load. 2 adults. 3 kids. Tons of stuff. So we all hear the arguement “I’d get the 3500” “just get the 350” “ you need a 3500” etc. Air bags do work. And they do serve a purpose. And as you can see a properly equipped Chevy 2500 rides and tows a lot nicer than a dodge.
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:24 PM   #2
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I look at this and can only laugh. - I assume from those that believe that a Yugo can pull the Titanic. A 2500 is NOT a 3500 - it's not debatable - by any account other than in some minds.

Strangely, this comes after an illuminating conversation with a friend that just showed up here at the campground. Bought a new 20k 5th wheel (week old) and a truck to match. It is a Ram. He saw my Ram and asked how I liked it. He told me that he had always owned GMs....Duramax's. When he bought this trailer he knew,....knew, that a Duramax was not the answer. He needed a Cummins. He owns all kinds of trucks and hauls all kinds of stuff. He said the salesman he deals with asked him why he was dropping the Duramax and he told them it didn't have the "guts". So, thanks for the photo but I think reality trumps a photo. Others can now chime in.

And by the way, he also said the Ram rode and drove much better and the interior was so much nicer.....just sayin....
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:40 PM   #3
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Load lifters don’t make a 3/4 ton a 1 ton truck. Sorry no fuel for this fire..I see two DIFFERENT fifth wheels being towed by two DIFFERENT trucks, what am I missing?
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:04 PM   #4
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The point is not that a 2500 is a 3500. And yes a 20k fifth wheel needs a 3500. Everyone doesn’t need a 3500. And a 3500 might not solve all your issues. That’s why they invented air bags, and why millions of them are in use, not just for campers. Also the point was how nearly identical these camper setups are. And how the trucks are both adequate for this particular set up, but how one is sitting a little nicer than the other. That’s the point. Not that a 2500 can substitute for a 3500. Not that Chevy is better than Dodge. But the replies are exactaly as expected thus far.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:19 PM   #5
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From that photo in my opinion 1 truck is overkill for the 5er & the other truck may be slightly lacking in payload. There are no weights listed for either 5er so it's hard to judge without all the facts. One plus is the truck with 4 letter word isn't even in the photo. As far as GM or Ram (the only real choices) I would say if the Cummins had the Allison transmission it would dominate the truck world, but the Duramax/Allison combo is tough to beat, the other 4 letter truck MAY have finally found an engine to get in the race with, but it's wrapped in recycled beer cans & lots of bling inside that 90% would never be used.
Ok, the gauntlet has been thrown, let the games begin!!!
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:26 PM   #6
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Here is some fuel for your fire.
Similar sized 5er to yours 336, Dry 9,860 and a GVWR of 12,360, no, not within ALL numbers, exceed the TV GVWR, but within axle and tire, NO bags!

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Old 11-19-2017, 08:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 336 View Post
The point is not that a 2500 is a 3500. And yes a 20k fifth wheel needs a 3500. Everyone doesn’t need a 3500. And a 3500 might not solve all your issues. That’s why they invented air bags, and why millions of them are in use, not just for campers. Also the point was how nearly identical these camper setups are. And how the trucks are both adequate for this particular set up, but how one is sitting a little nicer than the other. That’s the point. Not that a 2500 can substitute for a 3500. Not that Chevy is better than Dodge. But the replies are exactaly as expected thus far.

I guess I'm missing something but, a picture tells us that the truck is "adequate" for the job? I'm thinking a person probably wants to look at the specs of the trucks and not what a set of airbags makes it look like. At least that's what I'm thinking.

Heck, I see all kinds of lifted, added on to trucks everywhere I go and then.....the truck with the 6-12" lift takes off from the red light and yep.....takes a block to get out of 1st, etc. Can't get out of its own way. Why? Made it look good but didn't do what needs to be done with the "pretty"....upgraded driveshafts, Ujoints and most of all....change the ratios. But that's not what's involved in making it "look" like it can do it. JMO
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
From that photo in my opinion 1 truck is overkill for the 5er & the other truck may be slightly lacking in payload. There are no weights listed for either 5er so it's hard to judge without all the facts. One plus is the truck with 4 letter word isn't even in the photo. As far as GM or Ram (the only real choices) I would say if the Cummins had the Allison transmission it would dominate the truck world, but the Duramax/Allison combo is tough to beat, the other 4 letter truck MAY have finally found an engine to get in the race with, but it's wrapped in recycled beer cans & lots of bling inside that 90% would never be used.
Ok, the gauntlet has been thrown, let the games begin!!!
These are the weights for 336's 5er.

2016 Keystone Cougar 336BHS Specifications

Technical Specifications:
Length 37'8"
Dry Weight 10,595#
Payload Capacity 1,695#
GVWR 12,290#
Hitch Weight 1,890#

http://www.rvguide.com/specs/keyston...ar/336bhs.html

The best match i could find on the GD site for a BH similar was a 311BHS

Reflection 311BHS
UVW* 11,185#
Hitch Weight* 2,180#
Payload Capacity 3,400#
GVWR 13,995#
Length** 36' 10"

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...orplans/311bhs

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Old 11-19-2017, 09:05 PM   #9
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OK, let me see if I am totally understanding this complex issue......

"Air bags make an overloaded truck ride level"!

That pretty much sums it up. Next topic please.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:21 PM   #10
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.

This reminds me of the skit of "who's deck is bigger".

.
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:33 AM   #11
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"BOTH trucks are within wt specs" Negatory, big momma. Take a quick-pic of the yellow sticker on the door pillar and post it.
"2 adults. 3 kids. Tons of stuff" I would challenge you to run this what you believe to be a "beast" over a cat scale the next time out and post it for us to see. More importantly for YOU to see. I'm not here to tell you not to tow with the truck you have, but don't come on here acting like we just all fell off a cantaloupe truck. Post the CAT ticket and the yellow door sticker and then post back.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:02 AM   #12
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+1. ^^^^^^^
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 336 View Post
A pic is worth a 1000 words rt? 2103 Chevy 2500, with Load Lifter 5000 bags on it. 2016 Ram 3500 duel wheel, stock. So before we get crazy. BOTH trucks are within wt specs. Same hitches. Same everything basically. Similar campers. Cougar 336 bhs, Grand Designs Reflection with the same exact floor plan. Similar load. 2 adults. 3 kids. Tons of stuff. So we all hear the arguement “I’d get the 3500” “just get the 350” “ you need a 3500” etc. Air bags do work. And they do serve a purpose. And as you can see a properly equipped Chevy 2500 rides and tows a lot nicer than a dodge.
Silly post....not really worth replying too!
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:08 AM   #14
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Much like the T. Rump verses Hilda threads I get pretty disillusioned by the "my ford is better than your dodge" mentality. Time to wrap it up!!!
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:43 AM   #15
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If the Dodge had bags it would sit level too.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
If the Dodge had bags it would sit level too.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW
And, more importantly, not be overloaded!
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:49 AM   #17
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Air bags have there purpose, level the truck, still have suspension travel while carrying a heavy load. That does not mean your other load carrying vehicle parts will be under there weight limits. I have them on current truck and last truck, might get them on the next truck. I have said on here before they also help hide overloaded trucks from the weight police. But, as a trained weight police I and we do look for those things.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:53 AM   #18
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Just wonderin, are there insurance or traffic/criminal implications if involved in an accident while knowingly towing in an overloaded condition?
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
"BOTH trucks are within wt specs" Negatory, big momma. Take a quick-pic of the yellow sticker on the door pillar and post it.
"2 adults. 3 kids. Tons of stuff" I would challenge you to run this what you believe to be a "beast" over a cat scale the next time out and post it for us to see. More importantly for YOU to see. I'm not here to tell you not to tow with the truck you have, but don't come on here acting like we just all fell off a cantaloupe truck. Post the CAT ticket and the yellow door sticker and then post back.
x3 to this.
I know that Chevy seems to be the lightest of the Big 3 when it comes to HD pickups.
That said I know what my Ram weighs with the 5er connected, with me and DW and two small dogs, and unless you are loaded to a 15% pin, I doubt that your TV weighs less then 10,000# with the 5er attached.

I also tow a 12,360# GVWR 5er with a Ram 2500, am I over GVWR, yes, do i recommend to others, NO!
If they have the TV and looking at a 5er bigger than 10,000#, I will say yes, it works for me, but it is THEIR personal choice to exceed the 2500/250 GVWR of 10,000# or less.

If they haven't bought their TV yet, I also recommend getting at least a 350/3500 SRW, and depending on the size even DRW.

When we bought our current 5er, the last item on the PDI, was before signing papers, that I hook up and see how it sat. Well as the 2500 had Tow and Camper packages it sat just fine. I did get a shock the first time across scales, but never have had a White Knuckle experience with the package.

I really like our current TV, it does the job, and is paid for, maybe sometime down the road I will replace it likely with a 3500 DRW.

Just today followed a guy pulling about a 35' Alpenlite with a post 2013 Ram 3500 DRW going 45 on a two lane state highway backing up traffic until we got to a passing lane. No reason for driving that slow, if that load scared him and that was all the faster he felt was safe, I think it was time for him hang it up.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
.

This reminds me of the skit of "who's deck is bigger".

.


16' x 24'....not the biggest, but I sure do like it....and just as important, my wife likes it too.
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